Ga. mom shoots intruder 5 times, saves children

[Ralkovia]

It's far easier to use their own logic against them. Dilange is desperately avoiding my point that he's justified the holocaust as anyone can see it. So I know I've hit his weak point. I'll just keep drilling until I pass through the hard headedness. Getting angry and shouting a proverbial "FUCK U" at them only reassures them that they are winning. Keep on the offensive and keep drilling.

This isnt a fighting game, there are no weak points. Only weak arguments. Ive basically said your argument has no place here.

Not really. You've failed to tell me the difference between what she did and what the Jews did during the Holocaust. Tell me the difference.

[Geadland]

I know a girl I care about very much, and she lives alone. She plans on buying a gun soon, and I support this choice. The thought of her being defenseless terrifies me.

Then advise her not to:

Not forgeting that you are four times more likely to be killed by someone you know than by a complete stranger: (Source)

[The Joseon Dynasty]

According to Wikipedia, "Kleck's survey shows armed citizens wounding or killing attackers 207,000 times in one year, contrasted against the total of around 100,000 Americans wounded or killed, accidentally or intentionally, in a typical year."

Seems rather odd to me.

Which is that odd?

It's glaringly odd.

According to "Survery Research and Self-Defence Gun Use: An Explanation of Extreme Overestimates", "K-G report that 207,000 times per year the gun defender thought he wounded or killed the offender. However, only about 100,000 people are treated in emergency rooms each year for non-fatal firearm-related injuries; almost all of these are victims of assault, suicide attempts and unintentional gun shootings rather than criminals shot by defenders."

[Insane Kidney Mentality]

I would hope that you encourage your girl to be careful with that gun. Shooting random people who knock on your door isn't exactly a positive trait. If anything it screams paranoia and that's not something I'd want in a neighbor of mine.

She is easily scared, but I wouldn't say paranoid. It would simply crush me if something happened to her because she couldn't protect herself. Not only is she female, she is very frail of health and would be very poorly matched against an intruder.

>Female.
>Poorly natched against an intruder.

Haha, what.

[Gear 1]

That's stupid. I'm as Pro-Gun as one can be and armed, but a badass it does not make me. I don't go around hoping for a chance to shoot someone. Anyone who hopes that someone tries to harm them so they can legally shoot another person is in the wrong.

Yeah, sorry about that. Getting a bit pissed about how unreasonable and ridiculous some people can be and I let it effect my posting. Obviously I don't hope I can shoot the guy. I just wish I could get through that hard head.

You don't realize that I'm being sarcastic. I keep my weapon so far away from my front door that I would literally have to have retreated through every room and chokepoint to shoot... and it's kept unloaded with the ammo separate and both in lockboxes. Although I would predict that I would pick up anything at hand to stop an intruder before that happens, there is no doubt that I am prepared to use it should that eventuality happen. I do not claim to be a badass. Protecting yourself and family is not badass. It's what a reasonable head of a family must do.

[Ralkovia]

So was evolution.

I thought that was a truth. Apparently not to you.

Evolution was a theory. Game Theory: Prisoner's Dilemma is a mathematical thought experiment. Given limited number of options there is a limited number of outcomes.

[Hallistar]

Good for her. She did what she had to do.

She didn't have to shoot him at all.

She did if she wanted to guarantee his immobilization and avoid the risk of him disarming her/taking her and her children out, when they were that close to each other. If she wasn't right in front of him though and there was alot more space, then I would agree that she would've had more room to evaluate her options.

I agree that her firing 5-6 times though does come off as excessive.

[Eoghania]

Get off yours. Rationally, people answer the door when people knock. Just because you dont know them doesnt mean you dont. Thats paranoia. Not going to say for the wrong reasons, because the same man broke into her house.

No, rationally, you don't open the door unless you are fairly certain of the person's intent or know the individual. This guy was not from the area, and you don't know his intent.

You're expecting me to open the door for a man who I do not know, and do not know the intents of, and that if I don't, any harm inflicted to me is thereforth my fault?

Echoing earlier in the thread, in civilised society, you open the door to someone. You don't have to let them in, you can tell them to bugger off, if you're scared they might attempt to hurt you you can yell it from inside or a window, but you don't hide with a gun. That's paranoia. Strawman on the "if I don't, my fault", noone's saying that.

[Dilange]

This isnt a fighting game, there are no weak points. Only weak arguments. Ive basically said your argument has no place here.

Not really. You've failed to tell me the difference between what she did and what the Jews did during the Holocaust. Tell me the difference.

Stop using Godwin.

Second, I dont understand why you need to refer to the Holocaust to get your point. Other than He said that lady cause it, then he believes Jews caused the Holocaust. Its a weak argument that has no place here.

Or are you trying to project it onto me, because you believe that?

[Agymnum]

I would hope that you encourage your girl to be careful with that gun. Shooting random people who knock on your door isn't exactly a positive trait. If anything it screams paranoia and that's not something I'd want in a neighbor of mine.

She is easily scared, but I wouldn't say paranoid. It would simply crush me if something happened to her because she couldn't protect herself. Not only is she female, she is very frail of health and would be very poorly matched against an intruder.

All I'm worried about is that she'll end up shooting a random visitor who's probably just handing our fliers for some event or something, or perhaps taking a public survey of opinions for a proposition/petition. That would be a damn shame.

Just to be clear, I'm not against gun-ownership (I'm planning to purchase several fine pieces). I'm just against turning to guns as the solution to a break-in. Guns should be your last resort, not the first thing you turn to when someone breaches your house. Turning to a gun means the intent to kill, and as I've been robbed twice, I can say that I've never had the intent to kill someone. Stop them, yes, but the police reports indicated that I could've done so with my baseball bat or with a golf club since neither of my intruders had been heavily armed.

[Wikkiwallana]

how many times a day does someone ring your doorbell looking to cause trouble?

Still sounds like trouble to me.

Yes, announcing your presence to anyone within, in the socially accepted manner, in the middle of the day, is clearly trouble. That's why my welcome mat covers a punji pit, you just can't be too careful when it comes to protocol following visitors.

[Geadland]

She didn't have to shoot him at all.

She did if she wanted to guarantee his immobilization and avoid the risk of him disarming her/taking her and her children out, when they were that close to each other. If she wasn't right in front of him though and there was alot more space, then I would agree that she would've had more room to evaluate her options.

I agree that her firing 5-6 times though does come off as excessive.

Not her fault; I would never expect anyone in that situation to act 100% rationally.

[Gallowfield]

She is easily scared, but I wouldn't say paranoid. It would simply crush me if something happened to her because she couldn't protect herself. Not only is she female, she is very frail of health and would be very poorly matched against an intruder.

>Female.
>Poorly natched against an intruder.

Haha, what.

You don't know what I'm talking about? Seriously?

[Dilange]

I thought that was a truth. Apparently not to you.

Evolution was a theory. Game Theory: Prisoner's Dilemma is a mathematical thought experiment. Given limited number of options there is a limited number of outcomes.

Im seeing how long it takes you to realize that I already said I was wrong.

[Agymnum]

Still sounds like trouble to me.

Yes, announcing your presence to anyone within, in the socially accepted manner, in the middle of the day, is clearly trouble. That's why my welcome mat covers a punji pit, you just can't be too careful when it comes to protocol following visitors.

This guy's got the right idea!

[Dilange]

No, rationally, you don't open the door unless you are fairly certain of the person's intent or know the individual. This guy was not from the area, and you don't know his intent.

You're expecting me to open the door for a man who I do not know, and do not know the intents of, and that if I don't, any harm inflicted to me is thereforth my fault?

Echoing earlier in the thread, in civilised society, you open the door to someone. You don't have to let them in, you can tell them to bugger off, if you're scared they might attempt to hurt you you can yell it from inside or a window, but you don't hide with a gun. That's paranoia. Strawman on the "if I don't, my fault", noone's saying that.

Its Atlanta.....however I dont live in a big city.

[Hallistar]

I know a girl I care about very much, and she lives alone. She plans on buying a gun soon, and I support this choice. The thought of her being defenseless terrifies me.

Then advise her not to:

Not forgeting that you are four times more likely to be killed by someone you know than by a complete stranger: ([http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19940711&id=Uz8xAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cAoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5650,10456]Source[/url])

I think that's why you keep it in a metal gun-safe and unloaded, typically. But it's true that having something that fast-acting nearby would appeal more to someone suicidal.

[Miss Defied]

Your snippet of the article mentioned that she could see him with a crowbar, but didn't seem to definitively say at what time did she decide to hide in relation to her viewing that.

For what it's worth, you can read the entire article in this post:
viewtopic.php?p=12395912#p12395912

As to the timing: I was assuming that she hid after she saw him breaking in with a crowbar. Since, you know, it would be difficult for her to see him from her office window after she went and hid in the attic crawl space. But I guess maybe I shouldn't assume as much. Perhaps she has x-ray vision or somethng?

[Priory Academy USSR]

And if we're going by pure damage caused, I suspect briniging someone back from 5 shots in the head and neck costs more than relatively low amount you can rob from a house. About £2000, at best, for a middle class home.
And I suspect Mr. Dilange would have opened the door, resulting in the robber creating an alibi for knocking on his door before moving onto the next house.

And so the robberies would only continue going on and on. I don't know if you know this, but some parents tell their kids don't answer the door when they leave them alone. I guess by your logic those parents deserve a robbery or a dead kid. Good job.

No, the police arrive, check for evidence, and see if they can find the criminal wthout potentially killing them. If you think the only way to stop a criminal is by placing them at death's door, well...fuck me.

Also, I gave up on the 'don't let people in' rule when I was 10 or so, and still haven't had my head bashed in by a criminal. Neither has anyone I know, for that matter (well, they've been burgled, but when they're out of the house).

[Chernoslavia]

Good for her. She did what she had to do.

She didn't have to shoot him at all.

If he went into the room im pretty sure he would have tried searching the closet for any valuables. Breaking into her home and searching for valuables while armed with a crowbar was reason enough to shoot him. Not everyone is a pacifist.

[Insane Kidney Mentality]

She didn't have to shoot him at all.

She did if she wanted to guarantee his immobilization and avoid the risk of him disarming her/taking her and her children out, when they were that close to each other. If she wasn't right in front of him though and there was alot more space, then I would agree that she would've had more room to evaluate her options.

I agree that her firing 5-6 times though does come off as excessive.

Even that didn't incapacitate him. He managed to get in his car and drive away before crashing off into some poor lad's driveway.

There was once a rule of double-tap, where you'd fire two shots in quick succession within center mass to stop the victim. With the increasing number of people on medical substances, however, law enforcement quickly shifted from the double-tap method to shooting enough shots to incapacitate the assaulting individual.

... I don't know where I was going with this.

[Wikkiwallana]

And if the woman answers the door this whole thing is avoided.

No. How do you not know if he would have attacked her if he answered the door? Why are you trying to justify this man's crime?

How do I know he wouldn't have attacked her? Because there would have been a door in the way.

[Dilange]

Then advise her not to:

Not forgeting that you are four times more likely to be killed by someone you know than by a complete stranger: ([http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19940711&id=Uz8xAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cAoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5650,10456]Source[/url])

I think that's why you keep it in a metal gun-safe and unloaded, typically. But it's true that having something that fast-acting nearby would appeal more to someone suicidal.

My dad keeps his gun and ammo seperately. He keeps the unloaded gun in his clodet and the ammo in a safe.

[Hallistar]

Echoing earlier in the thread, in civilised society, you open the door to someone. You don't have to let them in, you can tell them to bugger off, if you're scared they might attempt to hurt you you can yell it from inside or a window, but you don't hide with a gun. That's paranoia. Strawman on the "if I don't, my fault", noone's saying that.

Its Atlanta.....however I dont live in a big city.

This was in Loganville, which is about a 41 minute drive from Atlanta according to google maps.

[Ralkovia]

Not really. You've failed to tell me the difference between what she did and what the Jews did during the Holocaust. Tell me the difference.

Stop using Godwin.

Second, I dont understand why you need to refer to the Holocaust to get your point. Other than He said that lady cause it, then he believes Jews caused the Holocaust. Its a weak argument that has no place here.

Or are you trying to project it onto me, because you believe that?

Fuck Godwin.

Answer the question.

I'll change it for you. Does a Rape Victim deserve to be raped for wearing skimpy clothing?

I don't need to project. You're just avoiding it. Answer the question.