Military Desertion

[The Zeonic States]

He's right, shooting deserters is common practice, typically as a means of not encouraging more desertion, that said solders are not citizens they willingly gave up those rights and became military property for the sake of the defense of their respective nations.

So they gave up their rights?WTF.

In a very blunt way he expressed the truth; You cannot leave Military property with out premission, You are assigned duties and follow regulations and rules.

In a very serious way you are property of the State; and the people that choose that life, the life i myself lived for nine Years? Have my respect. Risking injury and death for the protection of the state and its citizens is a noble calling.

[The Zeonic States]

The fact your in the middle of a battle and that the desert will not likely go quietly seems like a perfectly good reason to execute deserters as soon as you spot one.

The fact that you're in the middle of battle seems like a good fucking reason to not be shooting someone trying to run away, and rather concentrating your resources on the guys actively trying to engage in the activity of killing you. This may be due to my having been a military NCO and having leadership training and part of an operational warship, and not being a couch-commando. Sure I made a joke earlier in this thread about impulsing one out of a torpedo tube... but it was that... a joke... It's not like I would be wasting time trying to track down someone who ran to some corner to quiver, when my time could be put into much better use tracking avoidance and formulating target solutions on the guys launching high-explosives at us. Once the particular battle op is complete and things have calmed down, then we can deal with confinement and hand them over to fleet with charges of desertion.

Damn straight; during the action the only thing that matters is the given objective after things calm down? If that waste of resource is still breathing we will hand him over to the MP's back at base and let a courtmarshal decide his fate; Still think that betrayal of the Uniform is Betrayal of the Nation but that's just my opinion.

I was scared i didn't flee, i fought and i fought, I did my job and despite the scars and mental issues? I don't regret it one fucking bit.

Heck i whine about missing part of my knee? I know some folks are dead, buried out next some highway rotting in the damn dirt didn't even get to come home, the coffins are empty.

[Zathganastan]

The fact that you're in the middle of battle seems like a good fucking reason to not be shooting someone trying to run away, and rather concentrating your resources on the guys actively trying to engage in the activity of killing you. This may be due to my having been a military NCO and having leadership training and part of an operational warship, and not being a couch-commando. Sure I made a joke earlier in this thread about impulsing one out of a torpedo tube... but it was that... a joke... It's not like I would be wasting time trying to track down someone who ran to some corner to quiver,

Your not a very good NCO if you can't tell the difference between a desertion and cowardice.In cowardice soldiers run away and hid while attempting to avoid the fighting, in desertion a soldier or a group of soldiers has left their unit open to attack while being a liability and a valued source of Intel to the opposing force if captured.Allowing a deserter to escape can prove to be a greater threat to the mission at large then wasting the time it would take to kill them.

when my time could be put into much better use tracking avoidance and formulating target solutions on the guys launching high-explosives at us. Once the particular battle op is complete and things have calmed down, then we can deal with confinement and hand them over to fleet with charges of desertion.

Shooting deserters isn't as big a waste of time as you think, Shooting at or killing soldiers attempting to desert helps keep the rest of the men in line where as letting them escape causing security risks and can lead to further desertions threw out the rest of your unit.You need to stop thinking like a grunt and look at the bigger picture as desertion among your ranks effectively shuts down the whole unit as more and more men have to be redeployed to cover the area of the deserters you let escape, all while hoping the enemy doesn't out maneuver you first.

[The Grand World Order]

Your not a very good NCO

And you base this on what, exactly? You wrote your entire post as if you're some authority figure, I for one would like to know how your experience and/or relevant knowledge stacks up against people who have actually been there. After taking a quick glance at your military roleplay, I'm going to go ahead and guess that it doesn't.

Just saying; generally, an NCO knows how to be an NCO better than a civilian does.

[Caninope]

All is fair in love and war. People due desperate things.

They did not give up their rights.

In voluntarily signing up, they did.

[The De Danann Nation]

If we are going to punish deserters,wouldn't it be better just to strip them of uniform and(possibly)throw them in jail?Everyone deserves a trial,even if they are guilty.

[Zathganastan]

If we are going to punish deserters,wouldn't it be better just to strip them of uniform and(possibly)throw them in jail?Everyone deserves a trial,even if they are guilty.

They do get a trail if they get captured however no one is going to go out of their way to bring them in alive most of the time.

[Tekania]

Your not a very good NCO if you can't tell the difference between a desertion

I'm quite aware of what desertion is, leaving ones unit for the purpose of avoiding duty or with the intent not to return. But as any of the actual experienced NCO's have told you, there's little point (and it's quite stupid to begin with) to waste resources and time engaging supposed deserters in battle when those resources are better used to combating the actual opposing force. Once the battle situation is done, then you deal with desertion through the normal military disciplinary channels. Now if a person was taking direct acts against or to prevent operations, then it may be necessary to use force on them to continue to maintain the fight.... but merely abandoning their post and taking off so as to avoid combat is not a reason to unnecessarily shift ones attention to dealing with a deserter, when said attention is being taken away from an opposing force in active combat. No one is going to order you to shift your fire from the enemy, if you try to, an NCO like myself would order you down and to maintain fire upon the opposing forces.... And if you do decide to shoot them anyway, you can rest assured that I would be going to the div-o and charging you with an Article 92 once all is said and done for failing to obey my order. The only thing I'm unsure of is if your dinner will be duck or chicken.

[Tekania]

Your not a very good NCO

And you base this on what, exactly? You wrote your entire post as if you're some authority figure, I for one would like to know how your experience and/or relevant knowledge stacks up against people who have actually been there. After taking a quick glance at your military roleplay, I'm going to go ahead and guess that it doesn't.

Just saying; generally, an NCO knows how to be an NCO better than a civilian does.

Indeed, it's not like they just handed me three chevrons under my crow. Sure I had some accelerated advancement up to E-4... but I had to advance through to E-5 and E-6 like anyone else. It's no surprise that a civilian military-play-actor is going to approach combat concepts with some idea of glory and a relative gung-ho mentality, whereas those of us who actually bore military leadership experience approach situations much more analytical. To them, the situation is a fantasy, something they dream of.... to us it's an actual reality and expectation.

My grades coming out of tactics school speak for themselves really, class of 8 FT's, 3 Fleet Returnees (1 E-6 and 2 E-5's) and 5 nubs (all of us E-4's).... I finished #2 behind one of the E-5' fleet returnees and before the other two, and #5 is has since gone through OCS and is presently a Lieutenant Commander (O-4)

[Seriong]

Is it right to execute a soldier who deserted the battlefield? No! Firstly, soldiers who desert their mission are obviously not fit to be in the military. This doesn't mean you should kill them! Everybody deserves a second chance and nobody should be executed because they made a mistake! Secondly, a soldier who does this is probably not well taught or doesn't want to fight for the cause. And again, this doesn't mean you have a right to execute these poor souls! Killing is never the answer, and killing a human because they disagree with you is even worse! Well, I spoke, so what are your thoughts?

"Is it right to execute a soldier who deserted the battlefield?"
Going AWOL does not carry a death penalty in America.
"Everybody deserves a second chance and nobody should be executed because they made a mistake! "
I violently stabbed 19 children and raped their teacher. Do I deserve another chance? Do I deserve death? It was just a mistake, honest!
"econdly, a soldier who does this is probably not well taught"
Do not blame the training for this.
"Killing is never the answer"
Then why aren't you just talking about shutting down the military entirely?
"and killing a human because they disagree with you is even worse!"
My country believes everyone deserves equal rights. His doesn't. Would it be right for us to go to war with that country, which would cause death, or do we let him continue oppressing people?

[Brabrantium]

for me, People who run from their destiny are no longer needed and be punished .

but you do have a point in those words of yours

[Tekania]

Going AWOL does not carry a death penalty in America.

It should be noted that AWOL is not desertion.... two different charges. There are three separate charges which exist in different contexts between articles 85 and 87 of the UCMJ..... Desertion, AWOL and Missing Movement; respectively. Desertion can actually (in time of war) carry a death sentence under the UCMJ... however it has hardly ever been used (even in times of war).

[Zathganastan]

I'm quite aware of what desertion is, leaving ones unit for the purpose of avoiding duty or with the intent not to return. But as any of the actual experienced NCO's have told you, there's little point (and it's quite stupid to begin with) to waste resources and time engaging supposed deserters in battle when those resources are better used to combating the actual opposing force. Once the battle situation is done, then you deal with desertion through the normal military disciplinary channels.

I agree that going out of your way to eliminate a deserter is both unnecessary and unwise when one is facing opposition but I believe that deserters should be dealt with if possible.Desertion only leads to more desertion and if not dealt with it can become a major issue that can make the critical difference between wining and losing a firefight.

Now if a person was taking direct acts against or to prevent operations, then it may be necessary to use force on them to continue to maintain the fight.... but merely abandoning their post and taking off so as to avoid combat is not a reason to unnecessarily shift ones attention to dealing with a deserter, when said attention is being taken away from an opposing force in active combat. No one is going to order you to shift your fire from the enemy, if you try to, an NCO like myself would order you down and to maintain fire upon the opposing forces.... And if you do decide to shoot them anyway, you can rest assured that I would be going to the div-o and charging you with an Article 92 once all is said and done for failing to obey my order. The only thing I'm unsure of is if your dinner will be duck or chicken.

Now here I agree with you completely.

[The Grand World Order]

Indeed, it's not like they just handed me three chevrons under my crow. Sure I had some accelerated advancement up to E-4... but I had to advance through to E-5 and E-6 like anyone else. It's no surprise that a civilian military-play-actor is going to approach combat concepts with some idea of glory and a relative gung-ho mentality, whereas those of us who actually bore military leadership experience approach situations much more analytical. To them, the situation is a fantasy, something they dream of.... to us it's an actual reality and expectation.

My grades coming out of tactics school speak for themselves really, class of 8 FT's, 3 Fleet Returnees (1 E-6 and 2 E-5's) and 5 nubs (all of us E-4's).... I finished #2 behind one of the E-5' fleet returnees and before the other two, and #5 is has since gone through OCS and is presently a Lieutenant Commander (O-4)

I'm still waiting to ship out to MCRD San Diego, so I can't say I'm much better than Zath, though technically speaking I'm a sworn member of the Corps. I mean, it's quite possible for non-military people to legitimately discuss combat scenarios and doctrine, but not when they get all their information from video games where everyone is a stone cold badass stock character. I mean, to be quite honest, would most men quickly open fire on a deserter? You have to remember, they've been in the same shit that guy's been in for God knows how long, and we're expected to believe they'd turn from a very real enemy to kill someone they know as a close friend? Even if they did, Lord knows the psychological ramifications of it. They don't drill you to kill your colleagues.

Desertion can actually (in time of war) carry a death sentence under the UCMJ... however it has hardly ever been used (even in times of war).

I think, today, that it'd depend on the outcome of one's desertion.

You deserted from some warehouse in the middle of Nevada? Probably not going to warrant a death penalty.
You deserted from Kandahar and somehow ended up back in the States? You're still probably not going to get the death penalty, but the punishment will be severe.
You deserted, and as a provable result, a bunch of your fellow members were killed? CONSEQUENCES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME Death penalty is probable.

[Tekania]

I agree that going out of your way to eliminate a deserter is both unnecessary and unwise when one is facing opposition but I believe that deserters should be dealt with if possible.

Yes, we have a system of dealing with them, apprehension by military authorities, and trial by military court.

[New Sapienta]

Desertion during peacetime is for discharge and prison time.

During war prison time if possible, but on the battlefield execution may be neccesary.

[Yankee Empire]

[quote="Kraannei";p="12041859"]Is it right to execute a soldier who deserted the battlefield? No![quote]

Does putting a question mark at the end of a sentence make it a question? No! It's a statment mad to look like a question.

[Tekania]

Is it right to execute a soldier who deserted the battlefield? No!

No, it's still a question. In this case the writer of the sentence is asking himself before his audience and then providing his answer through exclamative response in the next.

[Screaming Onions]

I do see your point... but the military should do a better job of making sure soldiers want to be soldiers.

^This