What if I told you...?

[Synos II]

Anyone play "Portal"?

(Image)

That's basically what it is, except you don't need to violate the laws of physics and thermodynamics for it to work.

[Tagmatium]

No, you could theoretically patent such a device, if you invented it.

And what do you mean by "free and infinite" energy?

It powers itself and provides a surplus, so if you were to just give the magnets a spin, you make it power itself, and create a free and infinite surplus of energy. Just like spinning a magnet in a coil of wire, but instead having it spin itself with its own energy and create extra for you to use.

It doesn't work that way.

Ever.

[Synos II]

It powers itself and provides a surplus, so if you were to just give the magnets a spin, you make it power itself, and create a free and infinite surplus of energy. Just like spinning a magnet in a coil of wire, but instead having it spin itself with its own energy and create extra for you to use.

So it violates the fundamental laws of physics and is thus impossible. Gotcha.

So what physical laws prevent it, exactly?

[Tagmatium]

Anyone play "Portal"?

(Image)

That's basically what it is, except you don't need to violate the laws of physics and thermodynamics for it to work.

But you do.

[Ashmoria]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lEV5AFFcZ-s

What if I told you that there IS a infinite, Clean and Free source of Energy, based on very simple physical principals and the biggest even breakthrough in the patterns of Nature?

And what if I also told you, that we have known of this for centuries, back to the Feudal Age. But this and many other fantastic breakthroughs are being suppressed, sometimes against the free will of the people, to line the pockets of the rich few at the expense of all others?

Please view the video, at least partially, before discussing.

Two reasons:

1. To prevent confusion
2. Otherwise this will appear nothing more than an Anarchists's satire.

i would say that if you believe in it you ought to invest in it. it would make you rich if you invested right.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

No, you could theoretically patent such a device, if you invented it.

And what do you mean by "free and infinite" energy?

It powers itself and provides a surplus, so if you were to just give the magnets a spin, you make it power itself, and create a free and infinite surplus of energy. Just like spinning a magnet in a coil of wire, but instead having it spin itself with its own energy and create extra for you to use.

The coil of wire is what produces the power!

Just, you know, to keep you...

*sunglasses*

... current.

[Threlizdun]

What if I told you that there IS a infinite, Clean and Free source of Energy, based on very simple physical principals and the biggest even breakthrough in the patterns of Nature?

I would tell you that you're wrong.

[Synos II]

That's basically what it is, except you don't need to violate the laws of physics and thermodynamics for it to work.

But you do.

WHICH LAWS DOES SPINNING MAGNETS VIOLATE!

[Pope Joan]

"Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (rtsp) isn't associated with any program."

Smells fishy to me.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

"Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (rtsp) isn't associated with any program."

Smells fishy to me.

Was that the first red flag?

[Esternial]

We haven't found a way to permanently break physics yet, sadly.

But we're getting there!

[Avenio]

So it violates the fundamental laws of physics and is thus impossible. Gotcha.

So what physical laws prevent it, exactly?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics, for one.

In fact, just read this;

One classification of perpetual motion machines refers to the particular law of thermodynamics the machines purport to violate:[4]

A perpetual motion machine of the first kind produces work without the input of energy. It thus violates the first law of thermodynamics: the law of conservation of energy.

A perpetual motion machine of the second kind is a machine which spontaneously converts thermal energy into mechanical work. When the thermal energy is equivalent to the work done, this does not violate the law of conservation of energy. However it does violate the more subtle second law of thermodynamics (see also entropy). The signature of a perpetual motion machine of the second kind is that there is only one heat reservoir involved, which is being spontaneously cooled without involving a transfer of heat to a cooler reservoir. This conversion of heat into useful work, without any side effect, is impossible, according to the second law of thermodynamics.

A more obscure category is a perpetual motion machine of the third kind, usually (but not always)[5] defined as one that completely eliminates friction and other dissipative forces, to maintain motion forever (due to its mass inertia). Third in this case refers solely to the position in the above classification scheme, not the third law of thermodynamics. Although it is impossible to make such a machine,[6][7] as dissipation can never be 100% eliminated in a mechanical system, it is nevertheless possible to get very close to this ideal (see examples in the Low Friction section). Such a machine would not serve as a source of energy but would have utility as a perpetual energy storage device.

[Qazox]

Unless/Until you can harness stupidity there never will be an infinite, Clean and Free source of Energy.

[Condunum]

So what physical laws prevent it, exactly?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics, for one.

That annoying little law, pah. We don't need it, just toss it out!

[The Joseon Dynasty]

I once had a dream where I invented a perpetual motion machine in exactly that way.
Perhaps I should have patented it and become rich beyond my wildest dreams.

You couldn't patent it because it's free and infinite energy (at least, so I have the right to believe). It would be taken as a joke and you'd be attacked by people who though you were insane, like Tesla (although I do admit, he kinda pushed it).

I have also imagined such a device which would power itself and provide a surplus, but I pushed it to the back of my mind, thinking it was too radical, too good to be true.

I think it being utter bollocks would've been the greater obstacle.

[Eaischpnaeieacgkque Bhcieaghpodsttditf]

Also, several people have been assaulted and had their Torus Generators confiscated by authorities. One man who expressed his intent to sell them cheaply was attacked in his own home/lab and told not to.

Yeah, I'm gonna call bullshit on this unless you prove it.

same here.

[Seperates]

No, you could theoretically patent such a device, if you invented it.

And what do you mean by "free and infinite" energy?

It powers itself and provides a surplus, so if you were to just give the magnets a spin, you make it power itself, and create a free and infinite surplus of energy. Just like spinning a magnet in a coil of wire, but instead having it spin itself with its own energy and create extra for you to use.

You do realize that you are converting kinetic energy into electric energy, correct? And that the electric energy that is produced in question is not equal to amount of kinetic energy because there is energy lost to the air in the form of heat or friction?

[Synos II]

So what physical laws prevent it, exactly?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics, for one.

You spin the magnets to start it up.

Once the magnets spin, they create electromagnetic energy, which powers a small motor.

The motor rotates the magnets.

It keeps them in motion by consuming less energy than the spinning magnets produce.

At what point is the second thermodynamic law violated? I don't see it.

[Synos II]

It powers itself and provides a surplus, so if you were to just give the magnets a spin, you make it power itself, and create a free and infinite surplus of energy. Just like spinning a magnet in a coil of wire, but instead having it spin itself with its own energy and create extra for you to use.

You do realize that you are converting kinetic energy into electric energy, correct? And that the electric energy that is produced in question is not equal to amount of kinetic energy because there is energy lost to the air in the form of heat or friction?

The only friction would be with the air, but it produces enough energy to overcome the friction and power the system, thus allowing it to run continuously.

There are videos of one running, if you so wish me to provide.

[Avenio]

The Second Law of Thermodynamics, for one.

You spin the magnets to start it up.

Once the magnets spin, they create electromagnetic energy, which powers a small motor.

The motor rotates the magnets.

It keeps them in motion by consuming less energy than the spinning magnets produce.

At what point is the second thermodynamic law violated? I don't see it.

A perpetual motion machine of the first kind produces work without the input of energy. It thus violates the first law of thermodynamics: the law of conservation of energy.

A perpetual motion machine of the second kind is a machine which spontaneously converts thermal energy into mechanical work. When the thermal energy is equivalent to the work done, this does not violate the law of conservation of energy. However it does violate the more subtle second law of thermodynamics (see also entropy). The signature of a perpetual motion machine of the second kind is that there is only one heat reservoir involved, which is being spontaneously cooled without involving a transfer of heat to a cooler reservoir. This conversion of heat into useful work, without any side effect, is impossible, according to the second law of thermodynamics.

A more obscure category is a perpetual motion machine of the third kind, usually (but not always)[5] defined as one that completely eliminates friction and other dissipative forces, to maintain motion forever (due to its mass inertia). Third in this case refers solely to the position in the above classification scheme, not the third law of thermodynamics. Although it is impossible to make such a machine,[6][7] as dissipation can never be 100% eliminated in a mechanical system, it is nevertheless possible to get very close to this ideal (see examples in the Low Friction section). Such a machine would not serve as a source of energy but would have utility as a perpetual energy storage device.

My apologies. In this case, it would appear that it violates all three laws of thermodynamics, not just the second.

[Seperates]

The Second Law of Thermodynamics, for one.

You spin the magnets to start it up.

Once the magnets spin, they create electromagnetic energy, which powers a small motor.

The motor rotates the magnets.

It keeps them in motion by consuming less energy than the spinning magnets produce.

At what point is the second thermodynamic law violated? I don't see it.

Mmm... no. That's not possible because the amount of electrical energy created is not equal to the amount of kinetic energy used. That being said, you could add more energy to the system from the outside (by rotating the motor occassionally), but that is not "self sustaining" or "free", unless by "self" you mean yourself, and by "free" you mean "does not require you to pay someone".

[North Franklin]

Source?

I'm sure even if I did provide a source you'd remain closed-minded, but:

http://rense.com/general72/oinvent.htm

Reliable source? This guy is a member of the New Energy Congress. That's like asking a Pentacostal preacher to explain the pros and cons of Creationsim to you and expecting an unbiased answer. Someone with credentials and science to back his claims would be much more persuasive than this.

[Seperates]

You do realize that you are converting kinetic energy into electric energy, correct? And that the electric energy that is produced in question is not equal to amount of kinetic energy because there is energy lost to the air in the form of heat or friction?

The only friction would be with the air, but it produces enough energy to overcome the friction and power the system, thus allowing it to run continuously.

There are videos of one running, if you so wish me to provide.

There is also the belt, the friction of the rotating magnet, friction of the electrical field... friction of the motor and all of it's components... loss of electricity over the wire... etc.

And that being said, energy isn't this magical substance. It has to come from something. That would be like matter coming from nothing.

[Synos II]

The only friction would be with the air, but it produces enough energy to overcome the friction and power the system, thus allowing it to run continuously.

There are videos of one running, if you so wish me to provide.

There is also the belt, the friction of the rotating magnet, friction of the electrical field... friction of the motor and all of it's components... loss of electricity over the wire... etc.

And that being said, energy isn't this magical substance. It has to come from something. That would be like matter coming from nothing.

Then how do you propose the Universe formed? Unless you're a creationist, of course. Otherwise, you'd basically be saying "Matter can't come from nowhere, so the Universe had to exist infinitely in the past."

[North Franklin]

There is also the belt, the friction of the rotating magnet, friction of the electrical field... friction of the motor and all of it's components... loss of electricity over the wire... etc.

And that being said, energy isn't this magical substance. It has to come from something. That would be like matter coming from nothing.

Then how do you propose the Universe formed? Unless you're a creationist, of course. Otherwise, you'd basically be saying "Matter can't come from nowhere, so the Universe had to exist infinitely in the past."

Well the Big Bang created space-time as we know, so there's debate on whether there's such thing as "before the Big Bang"

But anyways, this violates the Law of Conservation of Matter, since Energy is Matter, and therefore cannot be created.