Separatist Movements

[Paradox Central]

I'd support an independent Hong Kong. Not that it has any chance in hell of succeeding at the current time, imo, but given the numerous sources of friction that are rising between HKers and mainlanders, I wouldn't be surprised if the idea took root.

[SD_Film Artists]

Unless the separatists have a sufficiently good reason to separate themselves from the wider populace (crimes against humanity, for example) it just stinks of racism, with a tribal 'us vs them' mentality.

[L Ron Cupboard]

I support Shetland seperatism, Scotland has been leeching off them for too long.

As someone who desires a World Government I find separatist movements to be....counter-productive.

I support the idea of a World Government, but I actually think smaller political units that seperatist movements produce is a step towards that goal.

[Dilange]

What separatist movements are there in Oceania?

Western Australia, Rapa Nui, Rotuma, French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Republic of Aceh, South Moluccas, West Papau, Riau, Banaba Island, Maori State, South Island (New Munster), Bougaineville, Guam, Hawaii, Northern Mariana Islands, Samoa, Malekula, Federation Na Giramel

[Kilgrammie]

Also, Scotland is having a vote on whether to secede from the Union in 2014.

We are not alone.



Independence is the word your searching for, or is that just too positive??

[Saruhan]

Also, Scotland is having a vote on whether to secede from the Union in 2014.

We are not alone.



Independence is the word your searching for, or is that just too positive??

Take that provincial banner off of that, they themselves voted to stay part of Canada, twice. Common sense has won

[SD_Film Artists]

Also, Scotland is having a vote on whether to secede from the Union in 2014.

We are not alone.

*ship*

Independence is the word your searching for, or is that just too positive??

Pro-unionists are also deciding their nation's future, or does that "universal human right" only belong to people you happen to agree with?

And what Saruhan said.

[Yanitza]

Well it sought of depends, if you have a large ethnic group that make up a majority of the regions population and have been long oppressed or wish to secede then a I can sympathize with that, ie Kurdistan, Northern Mali (I think), Eritrea, South Sudan, Chechnya (well only for the 1st Chechen war), Nagorno Karabakh

Cases like Catalonia, Scotland, Quebec maybe less so as they already have a lot of autonomy and are not being persecuted by the central government, however if their is a strong support among the local community for Independence, then perhaps so

Secession like in North Cyprus should be opposed as it was by a foriegn invasion and a minority over the majority

[Priory Academy USSR]

I cannot see Tibet as a seperate country ever, unless it has a booming economic base otherwise they are Nepalese, Chinese, Russia, Mongolian, or Bhutanian territory.

Northern Ireland should just be part of Ireland and not a seperate nation at all.

Still, they'd be better off with the Chinese not oppressing them.

There is a movment in Northern Ireland, called the Ulster Nationalists or Ulster Separatists, who want an independent Northern Ireland that does not unite with the Republic of Ireland.

I can't see why they'd want this though.

It's because half of the Northern Irish are British Protestants, who'd rather not come under southern Catholic control. The fact that the the Unionists and the Republicanists live in the same area means that there's no way to divide the country into those pro-Republic, and those pro-Union, which is why there's been loads of fighting during the 20th century in Northern Ireland.

[Rio Cana]

No mention of Puerto Rico.

[Kilgrammie]

Take that provincial banner off of that, they themselves voted to stay part of Canada, twice. Common sense has won

Quebec

As Robert the Bruce learned

"If at first you don't succeed, try,try, again"




"Revolution not Devolution"

SRSM.

[Wallonochia]

Yeah, Quebec isn't that much of a risk anymore. Seeing as we set a rule about their sucession

Succession or secession? Those are two different things.

Texas is vital to America and the rest of America is vital to Texas. Not to mention that an independent Texas would basically guarantee a single party system because the Democrats will have a shitton of power.

Hopefully that would make Democrats actually stand for something.

I live in Brittany where there are a few separatists but mostly regionalists because France is an overly centralized country.

As someone who desires a World Government I find separatist movements to be....counter-productive.

Not necessarily. A world government would almost certainly be a federal state, and relatively weaker states would be more conducive to that sort of thing. You'll notice that despite the EU's current difficulties that Catalonians and Scots are still pretty concerned about being let into the club.

[Camicon]

Take that provincial banner off of that, they themselves voted to stay part of Canada, twice. Common sense has won

Quebec

As Robert the Bruce learned

"If at first you don't succeed, try,try, again"




"Revolution not Devolution"

SRSM.

2) Quebec may not be as known as it should be. Quebec has advocated its independence and has even brought it up for vote recently, but failed by a small margin. As we know, Quebec is the majority French speaking providence of Canada that seems different than the others.

1993, federal election. The Bloc Quebecois, a federal party that runs only in Quebec, and represents only Quebec interests, and for whom the separation of Quebec is the focal point of their party platform, receives 1.85 million votes.

1995, Quebec votes 50.58% in a provincial referendum to stay a part of Canada. Roughly 2.31 million people voted to separate.

2011, federal election. The Bloc received 800,000 votes. Popular support dropped from 10% to 6%, country wide.

Eighteen years, and the Bloc has lost about 57% of it's support base. Quebec separatism is, for the most part, dead.

Actually, it might be more accurate to say that it's hibernating. What is very obvious though, to everyone, is that support for Quebec separatism is dropping, both within and without. The reason? I believe it's because the people pushing for separation are being proven wrong, day after day. The separatism movement uses scare-tactics to convince people that separatism is a good, viable idea (it is neither). They say that the "Quebec way of life" (or some-such) is in danger of being destroyed by the rest of Canada. Yet, this hasn't happened in the last 150+ years. What's more, the unique culture in Quebec is being allowed to thrive, thanks to the somewhat unique model of asymmetrical federalism that the Canadian government tends to adopt, with regards to provincial rights.

And, of course, as was said before, unilateral separatism is not supported by Canadian or international law. So it legally can't happen unless the whole of Canada votes to cut them free (which will never happen).

People that think Quebec is going to secede are ignorant to reality of the situation.

[SD_Film Artists]

Take that provincial banner off of that, they themselves voted to stay part of Canada, twice. Common sense has won

We are not alone.

*ship*

Independence is the word your searching for, or is that just too positive??

Pro-unionists are also deciding their nation's future, or does that "universal human right" only belong to people you happen to agree with?

And what Saruhan said.

[SD_Film Artists]

I live in Brittany where there are a few separatists but mostly regionalists because France is an overly centralized country.

I've been to Brittany, it's a nice place. Though as for seperatists/regionalists, sometimes it feels a bit awkward when the 'Celtic nations' supporters fly the flags of Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and Brittany but not England. I know England is historically more Germanic than Celtic but we share alot of culture with our neighbours in the Brittish Isles. And nowadays there's little to no genetic difference.

And speaking of culture, it's interesting how the bagpipe was adopted by Scotland and Brittany yet skipped over Wales and England (unless you count it as part of the wider British culture).

I heard that the seperatist movement of Brittany had its peak in the 1970's.

[Wallonochia]

I've been to Brittany, it's a nice place. Though as for seperatists/regionalists, sometimes it feels a bit awkward when the 'Celtic nations' supporters fly the flags of Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and Brittany but not England. I know England is historically more Germanic than Celtic but we share alot of culture with our neighbours in the Brittish Isles. And nowadays there's little to no genetic difference.

And speaking of culture, it's interesting how the bagpipe was adopted by Scotland and Brittany yet skipped over Wales and England (unless you count it as part of the wider British culture).

I heard that the seperatist movement of Brittany had its peak in the 1970's.

I'd imagine they don't fly the English flag largely because the biggest shared experience among the Celtic nations (apart from Brittany) is English domination over the centuries. A key aspect of the identity of the British Celts is Not Being English, similarly to how Not Being American is a part of Canadian identity. It's unfortunate but understandable.

I don't know anyone that cares about genetics or ethnicity these days. There's a tiny fascist party that gets a fraction of a percent in local elections but apart from them there isn't really anyone. Given that there is no legal designation of Breton most people define "Breton-ness" in a number of ways, mostly by culture. I was born and raised in the US but since I'm involved in local culture and speak Breton most nationalists I know consider me to be as Breton as anyone.

Actually, there were English, Welsh and Cornish bagpipes, they just didn't stick around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_bagpipes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_pipes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_bagpipes

Separatism here did peak in the 1970s with the arrest of a group of FLB/ARB (Front de la Libération de la Bretagne and Armée Révolutionnaire Bretonne) but seperatism was never all that particularly strong. The mainstream nationalist party is very much a regionalist party and calls for a federal France, although in the context of French politics that's a pretty radical demand in and of itself.

[SD_Film Artists]

I've been to Brittany, it's a nice place. Though as for seperatists/regionalists, sometimes it feels a bit awkward when the 'Celtic nations' supporters fly the flags of Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and Brittany but not England. I know England is historically more Germanic than Celtic but we share alot of culture with our neighbours in the Brittish Isles. And nowadays there's little to no genetic difference.

And speaking of culture, it's interesting how the bagpipe was adopted by Scotland and Brittany yet skipped over Wales and England (unless you count it as part of the wider British culture).

I heard that the seperatist movement of Brittany had its peak in the 1970's.

I'd imagine they don't fly the English flag largely because the biggest shared experience among the Celtic nations (apart from Brittany) is English domination over the centuries. A key aspect of the identity of the British Celts is Not Being English, similarly to how Not Being American is a part of Canadian identity. It's unfortunate but understandable.

I don't know anyone that cares about genetics or ethnicity these days. There's a tiny fascist party that gets a fraction of a percent in local elections but apart from them there isn't really anyone. Given that there is no legal designation of Breton most people define "Breton-ness" in a number of ways, mostly by culture. I was born and raised in the US but since I'm involved in local culture and speak Breton most nationalists I know consider me to be as Breton as anyone.

Actually, there were English, Welsh and Cornish bagpipes, they just didn't stick around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_bagpipes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_pipes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_bagpipes

Separatism here did peak in the 1970s with the arrest of a group of FLB/ARB (Front de la Libération de la Bretagne and Armée Révolutionnaire Bretonne) but seperatism was never all that particularly strong. The mainstream nationalist party is very much a regionalist party and calls for a federal France, although in the context of French politics that's a pretty radical demand in and of itself.

So it's a combination of England's wars in the British Isles and the fact that that England was only Celtic in pre-Roman times? Well as you said, that's unfortunate but understandable. In a way Brittany was effected, as England's (the state, not the geographical area) first conflicts with its Celtic neighbors were when England was still very Norman.

Well that element of inclusiveness is good to hear, as it gets ugly when separatists base their political views on outdated notions of '[nation]-blood'.

I'm learning French but not so much Breton. ;^^ And thanks for the links.

IMO Federalism isn't as bad a full seperatism as it still recognises the wider union, though I can imagine how it could be seen as radical in French politics considering how its overseas territories have the same status as mainland France.

[Kemalist]

Well it sought of depends, if you have a large ethnic group that make up a majority of the regions population and have been long oppressed or wish to secede then a I can sympathize with that, ie Kurdistan, Northern Mali (I think), Eritrea, South Sudan, Chechnya (well only for the 1st Chechen war), Nagorno Karabakh

Cases like Catalonia, Scotland, Quebec maybe less so as they already have a lot of autonomy and are not being persecuted by the central government, however if their is a strong support among the local community for Independence, then perhaps so

Secession like in North Cyprus should be opposed as it was by a foriegn invasion and a minority over the majority

So, Nagorno Karabakh is not by a foreign invasion then ?

[Yanitza]

Well it sought of depends, if you have a large ethnic group that make up a majority of the regions population and have been long oppressed or wish to secede then a I can sympathize with that, ie Kurdistan, Northern Mali (I think), Eritrea, South Sudan, Chechnya (well only for the 1st Chechen war), Nagorno Karabakh

Cases like Catalonia, Scotland, Quebec maybe less so as they already have a lot of autonomy and are not being persecuted by the central government, however if their is a strong support among the local community for Independence, then perhaps so

Secession like in North Cyprus should be opposed as it was by a foriegn invasion and a minority over the majority

So, Nagorno Karabakh is not by a foreign invasion then ?

Nagorno Karabakh was a majority Armenian region under the control of Azerbaijan and their was already a lot of ethnic conflict between the two since the disintegration of the Soviet Union. Does that mean I like the war? no because it saw Armenians and Azeris cleansed from both areas but it has more legitimacy then Northern Cyprus where Turks weren't even a majority

[Rio Cana]

Nagorno Karabakh. Saw a parade from there Capital city from earlier this year on youtube.

Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=yC4 ... =endscreen

[Greater Nilfgaard]

As with anything, Separatists movements are a test of will between the rebels and the central government.

If the rebels manage to secure independence then good for them they deserve it.
If the central government fails to suppress the separatist government then it is a failed government and it deserved to fail.

If the government successfully suppresses the rebels then it deserved it's success.
If the rebels fail to gain independence then they deserved to fail.

This applies everywhere in the world equally, which is why I am proud of Kosovo, South Ossetia, China, Abhkazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Russia, USA, Sri Lanka, Armenia (for successfully supporting NKB) as well as others.

Meanwhile I am disappointed in Mexico, Serbia, Azerbaijan, The Tamil Tigers, Tibet, Chechnya, Georgia and Somalia.

I will probably be disappointed in the UK and Spain soon too, depending on what happens with Catalonia and Scotland.
Likewise I will be proud of Catalonia and Scotland. If they fail then the opposite sentiment will be true.

[SD_Film Artists]

As with anything, Separatists movements are a test of will between the rebels and the central government.

If the rebels manage to secure independence then good for them they deserve it.
If the central government fails to suppress the separatist government then it is a failed government and it deserved to fail.

If the government successfully suppresses the rebels then it deserved it's success.
If the rebels fail to gain independence then they deserved to fail.

This applies everywhere in the world equally, which is why I am proud of Kosovo, South Ossetia, China, Abhkazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Russia, USA, Sri Lanka, Armenia (for successfully supporting NKB) as well as others.

Meanwhile I am disappointed in Mexico, Serbia, Azerbaijan, The Tamil Tigers, Tibet, Chechnya, Georgia and Somalia.

I will probably be disappointed in the UK and Spain soon too, depending on what happens with Catalonia and Scotland.
Likewise I will be proud of Catalonia and Scotland. If they fail then the opposite sentiment will be true.

While that's the case in some places, it's not always a case of 'Government vs Rebels'. I mean, separatism doesn't hold a monopoly in grassroots politics.

[Mushet]

My favorite was Republic Of Lakotah

[Varijnland]

Cornwall? Some think they're all "celtic" and thus should not be part of England but they've been thoroughly Anglicised/Germanicised by now.

[Churchilland]

I would love to see an independent Tibet! Especially as the PRC are a hypocritical nation, they're not communist in definition anymore, just authoritarian...