Yeah, me neither.
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by Zaras » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:46 pm
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Nimzonia » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:07 pm
Raeyh wrote:Most of the things you buy, cars, phones, computers, etc, are so you can function at your job. You need a phone so your boss can call you at home, you need a computer and Internet so that your boss can email you at home or so you can use access your company's network at home. If you don't need to have a job, suddenly you no longer need a cellphone or Internet. You have all the time in the world now, so you can just walk to get your food instead of drive and you don't need a car.
by The Bilbos » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:43 pm
by Frisivisia » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:44 pm
by Zaras » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:45 pm
What do you think Occupy Wall Street Was all about?
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Trotskylvania » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:46 pm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in PosadismKarl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital
Anton Pannekoek, World Revolution and Communist Tactics
Amadeo Bordiga, Dialogue With Stalin
Nikolai Bukharin, The ABC of Communism
Gilles Dauvé, When Insurrections Die"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga
by Genivaria » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:58 pm
by Zaras » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:00 pm
Genivaria wrote:Look for the bare necessities
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Ethel mermania » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:34 pm
by Trotskylvania » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:37 pm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in PosadismKarl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital
Anton Pannekoek, World Revolution and Communist Tactics
Amadeo Bordiga, Dialogue With Stalin
Nikolai Bukharin, The ABC of Communism
Gilles Dauvé, When Insurrections Die"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga
by Ethel mermania » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:42 pm
Trotskylvania wrote:Ethel mermania wrote:and where does the government get the money from?
taxes
the tax rate would have to be so high, it would cause a basic disincentive to work? why pay a 60% tax rate, when you get what you need to live on for free?
Because bare life is boring.
In the world of Republican talking points, people must be threatened with death to get them to work, but in the real world, people are much more industrious and ambitious.
by Jinos » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:43 pm
by Trotskylvania » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:46 pm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in PosadismKarl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital
Anton Pannekoek, World Revolution and Communist Tactics
Amadeo Bordiga, Dialogue With Stalin
Nikolai Bukharin, The ABC of Communism
Gilles Dauvé, When Insurrections Die"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga
by The Joseon Dynasty » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:48 pm
by GCMG » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:48 pm
Trez-Nem wrote:Not everything as everything, but as quite many things at least.
I came across a draft for an issue that had an option to give your citizens free basic necessities of life, such as food, water and housing. I tought: What if this was merged with the idea of a basic income? The answer was clear in my head, it wouldn't work. Everyone would just stop working. Really? Would everyone stop working? Would you like to live in a small stinky government funded "apartment" with dry bread and water? Even if the government would give you a little money every month, wouldn't you be jealous of the new car your neighbor just bought?
I know it doesn't work with everyone, some people are happy with little money, but that's not the point.
What do you think? Why wouldn't it work? Why/how would it work? If you have no explanations to what you say, please ski to a spruce.
How can a system where everyone buys their own homes and food work, whilst one where government funds them won't work? I'd like if someone explained me that.
by The Joseon Dynasty » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:49 pm
Trotskylvania wrote:Jesus Christ kids, has capitalism rotted your brains so much that you don't understand what "basic necessity" means anymore? Seriously, what is wrong with this thread?
by The Joseon Dynasty » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:50 pm
Encara wrote:The Joseon Dynasty wrote:You cannot produce anything without labour. Labour needs an incentive to produce (namely, remuneration). Without that incentive, employment will be zero, and your economy will have nothing to provide.
So no, it wouldn't work.
Your right no human labored for anything until we invented money.
by Ethel mermania » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:04 pm
by Sobaeg » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:14 pm
by Sobaeg » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:18 pm
Genivaria wrote:Look for the bare necessities
The simple bare necessities
Forget about your worries and your strife
I mean the bare necessities
Old Mother Nature's recipes
That brings the bare necessities of life
by Zaras » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:19 pm
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Liriena » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:25 pm
Sobaeg wrote:Note to Americans,
Many countries in the world have this kind of system, it works and people still work because they are needy (usually for things they want rather than need!).
Norway, Australia and New Zealand are three examples that will supply food, and medical money to spend for clothing, transport and utilities (and even then those prices are highly discounted), to have children and a house to live in (even a grant to own) and even as far as education.
Living standards and minimum wages and employment are all higher than the US!
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Trotskylvania » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:29 pm
Ethel mermania wrote:Trotskylvania wrote:It does, and it also tends to cost money, especially the surfing part.
not at all, the waves are free. i can get a decent used board for about 75 if i shop a bit. live in southern florida, and take the bus to the beach, your coverning my necissities, as per the OP.. i can even take in a roomate to half my rent and keep half the rent check your giving me. your gonna provide sunscreen out of medical, cause you dont want me to get skin cancer.
nah. we are good, i like my job, but 60+ points in taxes, when the state is covering, food, clothing, rent, and medical. surfs up.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in PosadismKarl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital
Anton Pannekoek, World Revolution and Communist Tactics
Amadeo Bordiga, Dialogue With Stalin
Nikolai Bukharin, The ABC of Communism
Gilles Dauvé, When Insurrections Die"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga
by Sobaeg » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:36 pm
Liriena wrote:Sobaeg wrote:Note to Americans,
Many countries in the world have this kind of system, it works and people still work because they are needy (usually for things they want rather than need!).
Norway, Australia and New Zealand are three examples that will supply food, and medical money to spend for clothing, transport and utilities (and even then those prices are highly discounted), to have children and a house to live in (even a grant to own) and even as far as education.
Living standards and minimum wages and employment are all higher than the US!
Seriously...people seem to forget that, first and foremost, we're talking about basic necessities being free, not EVERYTHING. And basic necessities are summed up in most human rights declarations: food, healthcare, housing, water, education...and that's pretty much it. And, if you think about it, there's really no reason why any of those should be particularly expensive for the state and, therefor, for the taxpayer, if implemented correctly.
Not to mention, it seems most right-wingers forget one basic principle of the science of economics: For each necessity that is supplied for, many new necessities arise. In a country where basic necessities are free, people would still work in order to earn the money to afford other not-so-basic needs that still improve their quality of life. Economy teaches us that necessities are infinite. People will always crave more, and the market will provide.
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