Why I think religion is inherently bad. [POLL ADDED]

[Lazssia]

ohlookit'sthisthreadagain.jpg

[Ordya]

So, what is your solution?

My solution? We're talking about whether the OP is insulting religious people or not. When did this become a matter of my solution?

You didn't answer the question.

[Sociobiology]

Those are fine, unless you're a masochist, but suppression of science, stoning people and encouraging violence aren't.

Studies have shown that religious people are more accepting of science than atheists. Especially since most historical Protestants embraced science, as did Muslims. Who's encouraging violence?

Source? because Athiests are more likely to BE scientists than religious people.

[Zyvetskistaahn]

Evening adventus, how you doing

Decent. Yourself?

Not too bad, a tad irritated that I allowed myself to be lured to this thread, but still no need to be serious about it.

Hmmm.... My other post... Still not being ridiculed, I feel left out of the ridicule.

You want ridicule? Your flag is ugly and your mother wears army boots.

YOU DARE INSULT THE FLAG OF THE GLORIOUS NATION OF YAP

[Coined Nation]

Religion is infamous for hindering scientific progress, which is especially popular with the Galileo Galilei story.

You're clearly very, very ignorant about what happened to Galileo.

You're right about him being wrong about Galileo. But that does not discredit what they're saying by any means.

I agree with Typh. But I also believe that freedom to believemis important. I just don't think that people should be allowed to force their religion on others. Also, for those who attack people like me as thinking that religious people are bad: no I don't think that.

[Typhlochactas]

My solution? We're talking about whether the OP is insulting religious people or not. When did this become a matter of my solution?

You didn't answer the question.

Because your question is misplaced.

[New Panti]

I'm an Atheist. I'll admit it, I don't believe there's enough evidence a divine being exists. Even though I don't believe in religion, I do believe in the morals and teachings of the Bible, the Quran, etc. One thing I absolutely hate about religion, though, is persecution of people like Athiests, like me, and other groups like homosexuals. Don't the texts tell you to love your fellow Man? In no ancient texts about religions such as the Bible are homosexuals even mentioned, yet religious leaders consider it a "sin" and some believe they should be put to death. I agree, religion can be a problem in some, if not many ways. But the basic teachings and morals of most religions can be very beneficial for society.

[Brekka]

He said some people, not all.

It doesn't make anybody more sane.

Oh really? Religions say, "It's okay, God loves you, there's a better place." Atheism says,"There is nothing else, you're dead and dust forever,Good-bye"

[Ordya]

You didn't answer the question.

Because your question is misplaced.

It isn't, my argument is being held you, not the OP. I never asked you to defend his stance, nor would I expect you to. But, I have asked you to defend yours.

[Unita Teccon Olympia Enclave]

Religion is not bad just people make it look bad like Radical Muslims and WestBoro nuts.

[Typhlochactas]

It doesn't make anybody more sane.

Oh really? Religions say, "It's okay, God loves you, there's a better place." Atheism says,"There is nothing else, you're dead and dust forever,Good-bye"

Note that things aren't any more true because they have better outcomes to you. Anyways, I don't see how anything you said has relevance to insanity.

[Lyncanestria]

And that its practitioners are?

Endorsing something that's bad. Not seeing how that's a personal insult.

Actually, I would very much consider that an insult,sir.
According to you, when someone is told that they endorse something that's bad it is not meant to be an insult?
Really? So if I was to say that someone endorses Nazism that wouldn't mean they should be offended would it?

[Brekka]

Oh really? Religions say, "It's okay, God loves you, there's a better place." Atheism says,"There is nothing else, you're dead and dust forever,Good-bye"

Note that things aren't any more true because they have better outcomes to you. Anyways, I don't see how anything you said has relevance to insanity.

Most people tend to have a better emotional and mental state of mind when given hope and promise, not gloom and dead-ends.

[Typhlochactas]

Because your question is misplaced.

It isn't, my argument is being held you, not the OP. I never asked you to defend his stance, nor would I expect you to. But, I have asked you to defend yours.

Norstal and you were in a conversation about whether the OP was insulting or making fun of religious people, You asked what the title was meant to imply, and I responded by stating that it probably didn't imply any more than what was there. You asked me what it would mean about its practitioners if religion was bad, and I stated the obvious: it would mean that the practitioners are endorsing something bad. The entire discussion was in the framework of the OP's views and its implications. Asking me about the solutions to religion being bad makes no sense, because the entire discussion had nothing to do with my views at all.

[Zyvetskistaahn]

Note that things aren't any more true because they have better outcomes to you. Anyways, I don't see how anything you said has relevance to insanity.

Most people tend to have a better emotional and mental state of mind when given hope and promise, not gloom and dead-ends.

But what of the emotional state of knowing you can be with the person you love with no fiery doom waiting at the end

[Tlaceceyaya]

Note that things aren't any more true because they have better outcomes to you. Anyways, I don't see how anything you said has relevance to insanity.

Most people tend to have a better emotional and mental state of mind when given hope and promise, not gloom and dead-ends.

There's nothing gloomy about atheism. Enjoy life! Live life, don't waste it trying to get into some afterlife that almost doesn't certainly exist.

[Divair]

Most people tend to have a better emotional and mental state of mind when given hope and promise, not gloom and dead-ends.

But what of the emotional state of knowing you can be with the person you love with no fiery doom waiting at the end

Or making the most out of the one life you have.

[Ordya]

Note that things aren't any more true because they have better outcomes to you. Anyways, I don't see how anything you said has relevance to insanity.

Most people tend to have a better emotional and mental state of mind when given hope and promise, not gloom and dead-ends.

It's true, religious people have longer, happier lives, and a lower rate of depression when compared atheists--on average at least.

[Typhlochactas]

Endorsing something that's bad. Not seeing how that's a personal insult.

Actually, I would very much consider that an insult,sir.
According to you, when someone is told that they endorse something that's bad it is not meant to be an insult?
Really? So if I was to say that someone endorses Nazism that wouldn't mean they should be offended would it?

Yeah, it's not. It's an attack on their views, not them. Insults are personal by definition. There's a vast abyss between attacking the views of a person and who they are.

Saying that somebody endorses Nazism would not be an insult, no.

[Divair]

Most people tend to have a better emotional and mental state of mind when given hope and promise, not gloom and dead-ends.

It's true, religious people have longer, happier lives, and a lower rate of depression when compared atheists--on average at least.

Prove it.

[Typhlochactas]

Most people tend to have a better emotional and mental state of mind when given hope and promise, not gloom and dead-ends.

It's true, religious people have longer, happier lives, and a lower rate of depression when compared atheists--on average at least.

And yet studies show that the happiest, healthiest, and safest countries have atheist majorities or pluralities.

[West Angola]

Religion has caused many wars. Generally speaking, in most of the following cases, religion is both
the stated cause of the killing and the only substantive difference
between the two opposing groups. Obviously, there would be many
additional conflicts where religion is just one of several divisions.

Food has also caused many wars, is food also inherently bad?

Religion is infamous for hindering scientific progress, which is especially popular with the Galileo Galilei story.

The Roman Catholic Church (and the Eastern Orthodox Church following the Schism) is the sole reason any learning was preserved after the fall of the Roman Empire. The tribes that took down the Empire cared little for over a millennium of Roman knowledge, and the Church was the sole preserver of this knowledge for over eight hundred years. Without the church, there would be no Renaissance.

My favorite parts of religion are where people say "Thank god" for the chemotherapy that stopped their cancer, when it wasn't god. Or the heart surgery that saved them, when it wasn't god, or the many other scientific advances that were made by men when the religious still say "Thank god".

The nerve of some people, to thank the person who gave them life in the first place, and allowed the chemotherapy (which is hit-and-miss) to work at all.

"Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there's an INVISIBLE MAN...LIVING IN THE SKY...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever 'til the end of time...but he loves you.

That's an attack on Christianity, not all religions, as you claim to be doing. You left out so much, it's ridiculous. The Church has two thousand years of traditions built up that prove you wrong, too long to list here.

...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money! The church always needs money"!- George Carlin

In a perfect world, the Church would not need money, because food would be free, so they wouldn't need to buy it to feed the hungry; Priests would be able to sustain themselves for free because everything else was free, so they wouldn't need a salary; printing Bibles and other evangelical materials would be free, so that also wouldn't cost anything; money would not be required to build churches, so those too would be free.

I also like how a ALL-POWERFUL being needs little priests and monks on earth to spread word of him, why doesn't god the almighty just do it himself? I mean okay, it may intervene in free will and all. But what about the dictatorships? Where people are suppressed and killed and controlled against their will. Why doesn't god help then?

Why don't you do everything for your kids until they die? Because they will wind up spoiled and unappreciative. The thing you're missing is that this world is not the end all. If this life were perfect and wonderful, we would have no appreciation for the paradise to follow.

And on the subject of gods intervening, why aren't we following the Greek Pantheon of Gods now-a days? At least they showed themselves supposedly in the stories, i mean it may have been lots of human-god sex, but at least they touched each other,

Umm...how does this support your point? Because people choose not to worship them, because they've decided they don't exist.

unlike the no-touchy-feely sex between the virgin Mary and god.

God and Mary never had sex. That's ridiculous by everyone's definitions.

Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for favors. 'Do this' 'Gimme that' 'I want a new car' 'I want a better job'. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. But...what about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan. Long time ago god made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought. Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray for something. Well, suppose the thing you want isn't in god's divine plan. What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a divine plan. What's the use of being god if every run-down schmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and fuck up your plan? And here's something else, another problem you might have; suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? 'Well it's god's will. God's will be done.' Fine, but if it gods will and he's going to do whatever he wants to anyway; why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me. Couldn't you just skip the praying part and get right to his will?

You've got two points intermingling together, so I'll address them both in one section.

First, the way you are supposed to pray petition prayers is asking "If it be within your will, let X happen." We as humans just aren't the type to let things happen, we want to weigh in.

Second, people don't just pray for petition, people pray for thanks for things, and to praise God.

Well anyway, i just threw everything in there i could to try and prove my point. I think everything in there was pretty decent.

Despite your claim that this was an attack on all religions (except Buddhism), this was basically an attack on Christianity-Judaism-Islam.

[Vetalia]

because they were burning any books that contained "heretical knowledge" and killing anyone who would not submit to the state.
You don't get credit for occasionally preserving some minor part of something you are actively destroying.

Minor? They were the only institution preserving classical knowledge and the only one with the resources and educational system capable of preserving and reproducing classical texts during the centuries following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire; while it's certainly true there were some works destroyed based upon the "heretical" nature of their content, that pales in comparison to what they saved, reintroduced and expanded upon in Western Europe. The Church also established a system of schools and academies that rebuilt an educated, literate class for governance and which later became any number of European universities.

fixed

wrong

specifically things that was actually invented and not rediscovered or imported, of course it is only acceptable is it occurred before the begging of breakdown of christian authority called the Great Schism, and thus the begining of the rise of secular pursuits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_technology

And it's just plain illogical to create an arbitrary cutoff based upon the Great Schism; the Catholic Church was as powerful if not moreso after the Schism than it was before. The rise of the conditions that drove technological innovation was a product of economic and social stabilization in Europe, driven in no small part by the stability the Church provided and the legitimacy its blessing of a given leader, e.g. Charlemagne and the beginnings of the Carolingian Renaissance.

Thus being the complete opposite of the christian church at the same time, but Islam got over that eventually.

No, the Islamic Golden Age was coincident with the Church's dominance in Europe.

[Typhlochactas]

Note that things aren't any more true because they have better outcomes to you. Anyways, I don't see how anything you said has relevance to insanity.

Most people tend to have a better emotional and mental state of mind when given hope and promise, not gloom and dead-ends.

Most people are also better off when they're not lied to about the nature of reality.

[Zyvetskistaahn]

But what of the emotional state of knowing you can be with the person you love with no fiery doom waiting at the end

Or making the most out of the one life you have.

Wait what... Was that post in favour of what I had said or aposed, because I was arguing for atheism there