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by Discoveria » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:48 am
by Alqania » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:32 am
by Ilstoria » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:57 am
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Ilstoria » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:31 am
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Allyria » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:00 pm
Ilstoria wrote:
DEFINES unnecessary as able to be reasonably avoided; While some industry, such as the meat industry, or fur industry, require that an animal be killed in order to create a product, which will necessitate brief pain, it is considered unavoidable. Similarly, prolonging the death of an animal because it is more cost effective is avoidable, so long as an alternative is economically feasible for that nation.
Ilstoria wrote:Tissue damage inflicted under the supervision of a qualified veterinarian and with the use of anaesthetics to reduce or eliminate pain is reasonable.
Ilstoria wrote:4. FORBIDDING forms of entertainment that require or involve the infliction of pain or suffering on animals,
by Ilstoria » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:16 am
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Ilstoria » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:02 am
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Ironic Ambassador » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:44 pm
by Cowardly Pacifists » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:49 pm
Ironic Ambassador wrote:The national delegates took their seats in the World Assembly Conference Centre. WA Affairs Secretary Paula Bryant stood up at her desk at the front of the hall. She rapped her gavel.
"The Delegates will now vote on Resolution #M6.47 to approve and endorse the Animal Rights Act. All in favor?"
All eyes drifted to the large vote-counting screen at the head of the hall. One thing was certain: the green lights outnumbered the reds.
"Very well, it has reached quorum. The Regional Delegate will now approve the bill."
As such, Atrigeas has approved the Animal Protection Act.
by Ilstoria » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:58 am
Cowardly Pacifists wrote:Ironic Ambassador wrote:The national delegates took their seats in the World Assembly Conference Centre. WA Affairs Secretary Paula Bryant stood up at her desk at the front of the hall. She rapped her gavel.
"The Delegates will now vote on Resolution #M6.47 to approve and endorse the Animal Rights Act. All in favor?"
All eyes drifted to the large vote-counting screen at the head of the hall. One thing was certain: the green lights outnumbered the reds.
"Very well, it has reached quorum. The Regional Delegate will now approve the bill."
As such, Atrigeas has approved the Animal Protection Act.
"Point of order!" shouted the crotchety Ambassador from Cowardly Pacfists.
"The proposed Animal Protection Act certainly has NOT reached quorum. In fact, it doesn't even have half of the necessary endorsements yet.
I respectfully ask that the Ironic Ambassador's comments to the contrary be stricken from the record."
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Hadnerland » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:27 am
by Ilstoria » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:13 am
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Dagguerro » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:46 am
Ilstoria wrote:It doesn't make pain and suffering illegal, just UNDUE pain, something you could have avoided by not cramping your livestock into tiny pens where they can't move, putting chemicals that are known to harm on the animal to "see what happens," or fighting animals.
Similarly, in the case of animal testing, testing products on animals that are reasonably expected to have painful results are avoidable, as are only providing cramped confinement for lab animals.
by Ilstoria » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:01 am
Dagguerro wrote:Ilstoria wrote:It doesn't make pain and suffering illegal, just UNDUE pain, something you could have avoided by not cramping your livestock into tiny pens where they can't move, putting chemicals that are known to harm on the animal to "see what happens," or fighting animals.
That effectively bans a number of forms of medical research...as per this article:Similarly, in the case of animal testing, testing products on animals that are reasonably expected to have painful results are avoidable, as are only providing cramped confinement for lab animals.
You just instantly killed the entire animal research aspect of chronic pain disorders, for example.
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Dagguerro » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:58 am
Ilstoria wrote:Dagguerro wrote:
That effectively bans a number of forms of medical research...as per this article:
You just instantly killed the entire animal research aspect of chronic pain disorders, for example.
Giving an animal chronic pain in order to figure out how to treat it is stupid, honestly. Animals can't tell us if it feels better or not.
by Ilstoria » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:37 am
Dagguerro wrote:Ilstoria wrote:
Giving an animal chronic pain in order to figure out how to treat it is stupid, honestly. Animals can't tell us if it feels better or not.
...are you serious? That isn't how research works. You don't just give an animal something and asks if it gets better. There are tests, assays, etc.
Honestly if that's the state of your nation's research program I'm truly disturbed about the implications to your medical system.
(OOC: I work in a chronic disease research department IRL. It is absolutely not "stupid" to use animal models for a wide variety of chronic diseases. I know precisely how important it is as several of my colleagues use such models.)
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Ilstoria » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:58 am
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Whitewood » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:27 am
by Ilstoria » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:02 pm
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Dagguerro » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:47 pm
Ilstoria wrote:(OOC: Honestly, giving mice cancer and trying to reduce the cancer or kill the cancer doesn't NEED to be painful. Giving them some disease that is painful and trying to then see what medicine treats that pain... I would love to know how you measure if a mouse is in less pain than the day before from chronic arthritis. Pain trials should be done with human subjects who volunteer or animals who already have the pain and would benefit from it, rather than ones who were forced to have pain.)
by Christian Democrats » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:32 pm
1. PROHIBITING the infliction of unnecessary pain and suffering on any animal by any person either directly or remotely. . . .
4. FORBIDDING forms of entertainment that require or involve the infliction of pain or suffering on animals
DEFINES unnecessary as able to be reasonably avoided . . .
DEFINES owners as any person who . . . has provided . . . shelter . . . to an animal on that person’s property for more than 31 days
1. PROHIBITING the infliction of unnecessary pain and suffering on any animal by any person either directly or remotely.
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
by Ilstoria » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:00 am
Christian Democrats wrote:1. PROHIBITING the infliction of unnecessary pain and suffering on any animal by any person either directly or remotely. . . .
4. FORBIDDING forms of entertainment that require or involve the infliction of pain or suffering on animals
Would these clauses make it illegal for someone to bait his fishing hook with a worm?
Certainly, a person owns a worm if he purchased it and other worms at a bait and tackle shop.DEFINES unnecessary as able to be reasonably avoided . . .
DEFINES owners as any person who . . . has provided . . . shelter . . . to an animal on that person’s property for more than 31 days
1. PROHIBITING the infliction of unnecessary pain and suffering on any animal by any person either directly or remotely.
A spider, unbeknownst to me, has been living in my house for two months, during that time receiving shelter.
I see the spider, and I kill it by stepping on it.
Reasonably, I could have avoided causing the spider pain by capturing it in a jar and releasing it into the wild.
Therefore, it is illegal to stomp on spiders that have been living in my house.
This issue is far too complex for one resolution to handle. Furthermore, animal protection is not an issue on which an international body should legislate. The issue is too minor, and it should be handled by subnational governments.
STRONGLY AGAINST
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Ilstoria » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:12 am
Xarxis wrote:Opposed.
Normally, Xarxans would be all-for your proposal. However, we do NOT condone an all-out ban of anything that causes discomfort to any animal. That's just excessive.
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
by Ilstoria » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:15 am
Dagguerro wrote:Ilstoria wrote:(OOC: Honestly, giving mice cancer and trying to reduce the cancer or kill the cancer doesn't NEED to be painful. Giving them some disease that is painful and trying to then see what medicine treats that pain... I would love to know how you measure if a mouse is in less pain than the day before from chronic arthritis. Pain trials should be done with human subjects who volunteer or animals who already have the pain and would benefit from it, rather than ones who were forced to have pain.)
(OOC: You really don't know what you're talking about. Look up transgenic animals; you breed them that way. Further its not a simple case of "seeing if its in pain" or "seeing if its cured". In many cases you breed them, let them live under certain conditions then kill them, cut them up and extract the tissue and cells for experimentation purposes. You're generally not TRYING to cure them because that's not how research works. You have to find out what the problem is first before you can try to cure it. You can't breed humans to have a specific disease to experiment on them or to kill them and cut them up for samples since its unethical. I'll start drafting my repeal in advance.)
Constitutional Monarch of Ilstoria
In the region of 10000 Islands
Libertarian, Unitarian Universalist and Cosmopolitan in one friendly bundle of joy!
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