Is satan evil?

[The New World Oceania]

What.

Where does the bible say, or imply, that Adam and Eve were immortal?

Three of life, dewd.

Aren't the Tree of Life and the tree which Adam and Eve ate from different? Or is that just a Mormon thing?

[Person012345]

That's my point. And the fact that god was worried they would eat from the tree of life become immortal shows that they weren't. But he's claiming somehow that "for sure they were immortal", which simply isn't supported by the bible.

He's using "immortal" to mean "will live forever".

That's not quite the same thing.

You can have no end to your natural life and still be mortal. You could still be killed.

Hence, although angels are never spoken of as dying, they are never referred to as immortal.

Whatever, we're specifically talking about whether they'd already eaten from the tree of life and become immortal. He says that they did, I say there's no support for that and that that's contradictory to what the bible actually says.

[Priory Academy USSR]

John Milton's Satan can respond to this better than I can. "Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven"

There was no hell at that time.

Are you trying to tell me that Hell didn't exist before the 17th Century?

[Galloism]

Three of life, dewd.

Aren't the Tree of Life and the tree which Adam and Eve ate from different? Or is that just a Mormon thing?

Mormons believe that the Tree of Life is the act which creates life.

It's all symbolic or something.

Which, of course, given Adam and Eve were commanded to fill the earth and become many, they would have had to develop cloning technology to do that and not violate God's law about the "Tree of Life".

That's sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Person012345]

Three of life, dewd.

Aren't the Tree of Life and the tree which Adam and Eve ate from different? Or is that just a Mormon thing?

They are, I'm inclined to think he's trolling although he might just not know what he's talking about.

[The New World Oceania]

There was no hell at that time.

Are you trying to tell me that Hell didn't exist before the 17th Century?

It took a hell of a long time to build.

[Menassa]

Where does the old testament describe him as a serpent...... I mean it does in the NT...... but they can be very inaccurate.

Ah, you don't accept the NT.

The NT refers to him as "the original serpent". Given Satan goes on to become God's main adversary in biblical story, including the tempting of Job and saying man only serves God for their benefit, it seems quite likely - even without the NT context - that the serpent is none other than Satan. Job is a continuation of what was started in the Garden of Eden.

However, without the NT, that is not iron-clad, just extremely likely.

Like OJ killing his wife likely.

So I assume that is where we'll agree to disagree then.

[Galloism]

He's using "immortal" to mean "will live forever".

That's not quite the same thing.

You can have no end to your natural life and still be mortal. You could still be killed.

Hence, although angels are never spoken of as dying, they are never referred to as immortal.

Whatever, we're specifically talking about whether they'd already eaten from the tree of life and become immortal. He says that they did, I say there's no support for that and that that's contradictory to what the bible actually says.

It never does say they had eaten from the tree of life, no.

It does seem to imply, however, that their lives would never end if they obeyed.

[Menassa]

Aren't the Tree of Life and the tree which Adam and Eve ate from different? Or is that just a Mormon thing?

Mormons believe that the Tree of Life is the act which creates life.

It's all symbolic or something.

Which, of course, given Adam and Eve were commanded to fill the earth and become many, they would have had to develop cloning technology to do that and not violate God's law about the "Tree of Life".

That's sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

In Jackson county Missouri

[Person012345]

There was no hell at that time.

Are you trying to tell me that Hell didn't exist before the 17th Century?

I believe, according to christian teachings, that hell came after/around the time of Jesus. I'm not sure on that though.

[Menassa]

Aren't the Tree of Life and the tree which Adam and Eve ate from different? Or is that just a Mormon thing?

Mormons believe that the Tree of Life is the act which creates life.

It's all symbolic or something.

Which, of course, given Adam and Eve were commanded to fill the earth and become many, they would have had to develop cloning technology to do that and not violate God's law about the "Tree of Life".

That's sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

In Jackson county Missouri

[Galloism]

Ah, you don't accept the NT.

The NT refers to him as "the original serpent". Given Satan goes on to become God's main adversary in biblical story, including the tempting of Job and saying man only serves God for their benefit, it seems quite likely - even without the NT context - that the serpent is none other than Satan. Job is a continuation of what was started in the Garden of Eden.

However, without the NT, that is not iron-clad, just extremely likely.

Like OJ killing his wife likely.

So I assume that is where we'll agree to disagree then.

If you like.

[Galloism]

Mormons believe that the Tree of Life is the act which creates life.

It's all symbolic or something.

Which, of course, given Adam and Eve were commanded to fill the earth and become many, they would have had to develop cloning technology to do that and not violate God's law about the "Tree of Life".

That's sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

In Jackson county Missouri

I believe that's correct, although I would need to look it up again to be sure.

EDIT: Ok, I just crossed the "Tree of Life" with the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad".

Not sure how I did that. I'm tired. Just disregard the last few posts.

[Person012345]

Whatever, we're specifically talking about whether they'd already eaten from the tree of life and become immortal. He says that they did, I say there's no support for that and that that's contradictory to what the bible actually says.

It never does say they had eaten from the tree of life, no.

It does seem to imply, however, that their lives would never end if they obeyed.

How so?

[Nidaria]

Three of life, dewd.

Aren't the Tree of Life and the tree which Adam and Eve ate from different? Or is that just a Mormon thing?

They are different, there is the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (which is what Adam and Eve ate from).

[Arcada Xenon VI]

Tree of life= life, you eat, and you get life, health, hit points, whateva.
And they got banned o eat from it, only when they ate from other tree.

[Eboinland]

He is neither, as he does not exist.

[Priory Academy USSR]

Tree of life= life, you eat, and you get life, health, hit points, whateva.
And they got banned o eat from it, only when they ate from other tree.

So God used their natural curiosity against them? Humans have always been curious, wanting to explore new things, and putting a 'do not touch' sign will just make it more desirable. Sounds as if God was taunting them like a bad owner does to a dog.

[Galloism]

It never does say they had eaten from the tree of life, no.

It does seem to imply, however, that their lives would never end if they obeyed.

How so?

Death wouldn't be much of a threat if you were going to die anyway, would it?

Besides, much later, Psalms refers to the meek inheriting the Earth and living forever upon it.

Jesus, also, was referred to the "last Adam", or a replacement for Adam, giving life where Adam had lost it.

God, after creating Adam, never told him that he would face death until he disobeyed, and at that point he commanded that he would return to the dust. It was never stated as a prospect before.

It's implied. Stated? Not exactly. It's implied.

[Menassa]

In Jackson county Missouri

I believe that's correct, although I would need to look it up again to be sure.

EDIT: Ok, I just crossed the "Tree of Life" with the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad".

Not sure how I did that. I'm tired. Just disregard the last few posts.

Ah...... so that puts us at........?

[The USOT]

Perfect? Need I say again that it allegedly committed genocide and is an omnipotent dictator that if real should be overthrown for its supposed crimes. Yahweh, by it's own book, is as nice and polite as Hitler. When you exercise your right to be and make your own choices, it smacks you down with unlimited cruelty and flings you into a pit of endless torture. That's worse than Hitler. Being 'evil' does not warrant destruction- those who destroy it for merely existing are as evil as those that they destroy. Evil should only be treated with such extreme force when it threatens the whole. I don't remember ever signing a contract with Yahweh giving him supposed almighty power over my will.

No one ever gets this message. They think that somehow, if I offer you a hand when you are falling off a cliff, and you don't take it, I sent you to your death. You ally yourself with the Devil by your actions, and jump on the boat he is going on, which leads you to destruction. If you choose that boat over God's, YOU sent yourself to destruction. God, by definition, is incapable of being wrong. Therefore, your judgement that he has committed any crime is irrelevant.

But thats not really the case with God... Hell ignoring such actions as promoted mass rape (e.g. the Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites in which women are forcibly taken through violence for the men to breed with *1(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT) Or Gods words on Jerusalem in 2*(Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)) His son/physical incarnate (depending on your view) also activly promoted slavery 3*(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

*1(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

7 They attacked Midian as the Lord had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. 8 All five of the Midianite kings—Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba—died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.

9 Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. 11 After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, 12 they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. 13 Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 But Moses was furious with all the generals and captains[a] who had returned from the battle.

15 “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. 16 “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the Lord at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the Lord’s people. 17 So kill all the boys and all the women who have had intercourse with a man. 18 Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

2*(Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3*(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

47 “And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. 48 But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.

In all these cases, its not really God lending a hand, its life ruining degradation from the beggining.
Now if we assume that your assertion of "God, by definition, is incapable of being wrong." is correct, then you must also have the position that both Rape and Slavery are good things because they are encouraged by God.

[Arcada Xenon VI]

Tree of life= life, you eat, and you get life, health, hit points, whateva.
And they got banned o eat from it, only when they ate from other tree.

So God used their natural curiosity against them? Humans have always been curious, wanting to explore new things, and putting a 'do not touch' sign will just make it more desirable. Sounds as if God was taunting them like a bad owner does to a dog.

The hell you're asking me? I'm just trying to say that they could it from it. I find the story symbolic.

[Galloism]

I believe that's correct, although I would need to look it up again to be sure.

EDIT: Ok, I just crossed the "Tree of Life" with the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad".

Not sure how I did that. I'm tired. Just disregard the last few posts.

Ah...... so that puts us at........?

Not sure.

Where does it put us at?

[Arcem]

The fact that Satan comes across as far less evil than God in the bible does not mean that Satan himself is good. God did horrible things in the bible, therefore those who regard him as good (without simply being ignorant of what he supposedly did, which I have no problem with whatsoever) probably have a broken moral compass, to some extent. The christian doctrine has a very disturbing, warped view of morality. This doesnt make Satan a saint though. He's probably a douche too, just not nearly as big a douche as God supposedly is. At least, that's how I see it.

[Priory Academy USSR]

So God used their natural curiosity against them? Humans have always been curious, wanting to explore new things, and putting a 'do not touch' sign will just make it more desirable. Sounds as if God was taunting them like a bad owner does to a dog.

The hell you're asking me? I'm just trying to say that they could it from it. I find the story symbolic.

Just saying it wasn't a nice thing to do.