Is satan evil?

[Menassa]

Satan is an angel just doing what god tells him to do....... to halt or oppose good...

[Person012345]

It's more that the writers of your desert scribblings were profoundly totalitarian in nature, and fearful of knowledge.
The modern virtues of liberty, democracy, and free inquiry were bought with the blood of great men from the religious.
And the fact Satan is represented as a rebel and a bringer of knowledge is portrayed as evil by the religious founders, who see rebellion against authority as evil, and knowledge as dangerous.
We now know this to be false.

Knowledge is not dangerous at all. In fact, true knowledge can only be obtained by the zealous worship of God. Also, since when is rebellion against just authority good? If the authority is good, then rebelling against it must be bad. Liberty (to a reasonable extent) and free inquiry also came about through religious men. You would make quite a fascinating psychology study.

Name one piece of true knowledge that has emerged from zealous worship of god.

[Neutraligon]

Satan is an angel just doing what god tells him to do....... to halt or oppose good...

Rather to test the goodness of humans. That's his job.

[Neutraligon]

Knowledge is not dangerous at all. In fact, true knowledge can only be obtained by the zealous worship of God. Also, since when is rebellion against just authority good? If the authority is good, then rebelling against it must be bad. Liberty (to a reasonable extent) and free inquiry also came about through religious men. You would make quite a fascinating psychology study.

Name one piece of true knowledge that has emerged from zealous worship of god.

God is real

[Ostroeuropa]

It's more that the writers of your desert scribblings were profoundly totalitarian in nature, and fearful of knowledge.
The modern virtues of liberty, democracy, and free inquiry were bought with the blood of great men from the religious.
And the fact Satan is represented as a rebel and a bringer of knowledge is portrayed as evil by the religious founders, who see rebellion against authority as evil, and knowledge as dangerous.
We now know this to be false.

Knowledge is not dangerous at all. In fact, true knowledge can only be obtained by the zealous worship of God. Also, since when is rebellion against just authority good? If the authority is good, then rebelling against it must be bad. Liberty (to a reasonable extent) and free inquiry also came about through religious men. You would make quite a fascinating psychology study.

There has been no revelation from the bible that has any application in the real world to deliver anything useful to human wellbeing.
It's a poorly written book, not even good for studying plot and character development. It isn't a historical document even, so it's not useful there.
Worship doesn't cause revelation of knowledge either, and I challenge you to provide evidence that it does.
I deny that if god exists, his authority would be good. He would be a tyrant. Unalterable, unchallengable and despotic. Unelected authority is just the use of force against people who disagree with you, rebellion against such an authority is just, regardless of the benevolance of the tyrant.

[Ostroeuropa]

Name one piece of true knowledge that has emerged from zealous worship of god.

God is real

You don't know that, and without knowing, no knowledge.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Knowledge is not dangerous at all.

Which is why Eve and Adam should not have been cast out of Eden.

In fact, true knowledge can only be obtained by the zealous worship of God.

The fuck it can.

Also, since when is rebellion against just authority good?

Your god is not a just one. Punishing people infinitely for a finite crime is the opposite of just.

If the authority is good, then rebelling against it must be bad.

Which is why they rebelled against god, since he was not just.

Liberty (to a reasonable extent) and free inquiry also came about through religious men.

And, most often, were paid for with the blood of kings, lords, priests, and holy men.

[Nidaria]

What right do we have to know everything? We are supposed to use the minds God gave us to examine the consequences ourselves. I also find it terrible that there are so many followers of Satan here. I can see the forces of evil will be quite powerful in the years to come.

God is a mass murderer. An asshole through and through who condemns people to eternal suffering for not believing in him and provides no reasonable grounds to do so.

Satan's worst "crime" was to tell Eve the truth after god lied to them.

According to the bible.

However, I don't believe the bible, so I'm not a Satan worshiper (he doesn't exist any more than god does).

He provided reasonable grounds, all right. Men have an obligation to worship the Creator who made them out of nothing, and the majority of those condemned were guilty of horrible crimes.
Satan told lies, he claimed that Adam and Eve would be "like God" if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God told them that they could not do that, to test them.
You support Satan over God, which is evidence enough of your evil and misguided ideas.

[Neutraligon]

God is real

You don't know that, and without knowing, no knowledge.

Notice the smiley used.

[Person012345]

Name one piece of true knowledge that has emerged from zealous worship of god.

God is real

That didn't come from a worship of god. You can't worship something before you know it exists.

[Ostroeuropa]

God is a mass murderer. An asshole through and through who condemns people to eternal suffering for not believing in him and provides no reasonable grounds to do so.

Satan's worst "crime" was to tell Eve the truth after god lied to them.

According to the bible.

However, I don't believe the bible, so I'm not a Satan worshiper (he doesn't exist any more than god does).

He provided reasonable grounds, all right. Men have an obligation to worship the Creator who made them out of nothing, and the majority of those condemned were guilty of horrible crimes.
Satan told lies, he claimed that Adam and Eve would be "like God" if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God told them that they could not do that, to test them.
You support Satan over God, which is evidence enough of your evil and misguided ideas.

They were given the knowledge of good and evil, seems like god to me. He never lied to them.
God did.
We are not obligated to worship our creator. We are sentient creatures.

[Neutraligon]

God is a mass murderer. An asshole through and through who condemns people to eternal suffering for not believing in him and provides no reasonable grounds to do so.

Satan's worst "crime" was to tell Eve the truth after god lied to them.

According to the bible.

However, I don't believe the bible, so I'm not a Satan worshiper (he doesn't exist any more than god does).

He provided reasonable grounds, all right. Men have an obligation to worship the Creator who made them out of nothing, and the majority of those condemned were guilty of horrible crimes.
Satan told lies, he claimed that Adam and Eve would be "like God" if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God told them that they could not do that, to test them.
You support Satan over God, which is evidence enough of your evil and misguided ideas.

No the snake told Eve
"For God knows that on the day that you eat thereof, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like angels, knowing good and evil."
Not that they would be god like. Satan had nothing to do with that story.

[The Nuclear Fist]

He provided reasonable grounds, all right.

No, he didn't.

Men have an obligation to worship the Creator who made them out of nothing,

They don't, actually. Why worship something you cannot, under any circumstances, detect the existence of?

Why even believe in it?

and the majority of those condemned were guilty of horrible crimes.

Crimes such as not believing in him.

Satan told lies, he claimed that Adam and Eve would be "like God" if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They'd certainly be smarter.

God told them that they could not do that, to test them.

God is supposed to know all. He already knew they would fail, and did nothing to even the playing field.

He is a monster.

You support Satan over God, which is evidence enough of your evil and misguided ideas.

You support the tyrant over the rebel. If his ideas are evil and misguided, yours are heinous gibberish.

But, none of these things actually exist, so it is a moot point.

[Neutraligon]

God is real

That didn't come from a worship of god. You can't worship something before you know it exists.

No you can think it exists, and through absolute devotion know it exists. (I am being very sarcastic)

[Immoren]

God is a mass murderer. An asshole through and through who condemns people to eternal suffering for not believing in him and provides no reasonable grounds to do so.

Satan's worst "crime" was to tell Eve the truth after god lied to them.

According to the bible.

However, I don't believe the bible, so I'm not a Satan worshiper (he doesn't exist any more than god does).

He provided reasonable grounds, all right. Men have an obligation to worship the Creator who made them out of nothing, and the majority of those condemned were guilty of horrible crimes.
Satan told lies, he claimed that Adam and Eve would be "like God" if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God told them that they could not do that, to test them.
You support Satan over God, which is evidence enough of your evil and misguided ideas.

But we ARE gods compared to ancient goat herders.
Sort of.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'd recommend Salvation War book series.

The apocalypse comes, and down from the government houses comes the response.
"F*ck off."
Most of the zealots become sleeper agents for "The enemy above." etc
Humans VS Hell VS Heaven.

Hell Liberation Army Of the New Roman Empire etc

Archangel Michaels Coup De Tat against god to prevent the humans nuking heaven is great

[Person012345]

God is a mass murderer. An asshole through and through who condemns people to eternal suffering for not believing in him and provides no reasonable grounds to do so.

Satan's worst "crime" was to tell Eve the truth after god lied to them.

According to the bible.

However, I don't believe the bible, so I'm not a Satan worshiper (he doesn't exist any more than god does).

He provided reasonable grounds, all right. Men have an obligation to worship the Creator who made them out of nothing, and the majority of those condemned were guilty of horrible crimes.

Why? I don't worship my parents, do you?

And no. Many were simply guilty of believing something different to the israelites. If you count that as a horrible crime then you're at odds with most of civilized society.

Satan told lies, he claimed that Adam and Eve would be "like God" if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God told them that they could not do that, to test them.

No. Go read the bible. It says "like god, knowing good and evil".

Additionally this is backed up by what GOD said AFTERWARDS:

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

God told them they would die if they ate from the tree. Satan said "nowai". They ate from it, they didn't die.

Another christian who doesn't actually know his bible I see.

You support Satan over God, which is evidence enough of your evil and misguided ideas.

No, they're both fictional characters. If they were real, shit sure I'd support satan over god, because god is a giant asshole in the bible.

[ImperialistSalvia]

No, but it's all about perspective.
On one hand he defied God
On the other hand, he gave Adam and Eve knowledge
Yahweh does seem to love humanity though; in some fucked-up sadistic kind of a way

However, I see it as: neither God nor Lucifer are entirely good/evil
(I'm not a Christian)

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3 ... m.php?f=29

The aforementioned book series.

Armageddon - Book 1
Pantheocide - Book 2


At the end of Armageddon most of the demons/devils are conscripted into the hells regiment and become "humanised." with culture etc. the angels are a lot more uppity and full of themselves...

[Vanum Norendum]

God is a mass murderer. An asshole through and through who condemns people to eternal suffering for not believing in him and provides no reasonable grounds to do so.

Satan's worst "crime" was to tell Eve the truth after god lied to them.

According to the bible.

However, I don't believe the bible, so I'm not a Satan worshiper (he doesn't exist any more than god does).

He provided reasonable grounds, all right. Men have an obligation to worship the Creator who made them out of nothing, and the majority of those condemned were guilty of horrible crimes.
Satan told lies, he claimed that Adam and Eve would be "like God" if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God told them that they could not do that, to test them.
You support Satan over God, which is evidence enough of your evil and misguided ideas.

For your first point, you do realize that in the bible, God also killed women, and children as well right? And no, we're not talking about one or two here or there (though that still is quite despicable), we're talking about deaths in the thousands. There are no reasonable grounds for this action. It doesn't make sense to worship something just on the grounds of creation anyway, so the point is moot.

Second point, Satan didn't lie, it was God that lied, in the bible, God tells them that if they eat the fruit, they would die. Satan, truthfully, says that God was lying, and that they should eat it anyway.

Third point, this is an ad hominem argument with a bit of straw man fallacy sprinkled in.

[Neutraligon]

He provided reasonable grounds, all right. Men have an obligation to worship the Creator who made them out of nothing, and the majority of those condemned were guilty of horrible crimes.
Satan told lies, he claimed that Adam and Eve would be "like God" if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God told them that they could not do that, to test them.
You support Satan over God, which is evidence enough of your evil and misguided ideas.

For your first point, you do realize that in the bible, God also killed women, and children as well right? And no, we're not talking about one or two here or there (though that still is quite despicable), we're talking about deaths in the thousands. There are no reasonable grounds for this action. It doesn't make sense to worship something just on the grounds of creation anyway, so the point is moot.

Second point, Satan didn't lie, it was God that lied, in the bible, God tells them that if they eat the fruit, they would die. Satan, truthfully, says that God was lying, and that they should eat it anyway.

Third point, this is an ad hominem argument with a bit of straw man fallacy sprinkled in.

Job's story always struck me as wrong since his kids were killed because God wanted to test Job. They through no fault of their own where killed...

[Nidaria]

Knowledge is not dangerous at all. In fact, true knowledge can only be obtained by the zealous worship of God. Also, since when is rebellion against just authority good? If the authority is good, then rebelling against it must be bad. Liberty (to a reasonable extent) and free inquiry also came about through religious men. You would make quite a fascinating psychology study.

There has been no revelation from the bible that has any application in the real world to deliver anything useful to human wellbeing.¹
It's a poorly written book, not even good for studying plot and character development. It isn't a historical document even, so it's not useful there.²
Worship doesn't cause revelation of knowledge either, and I challenge you to provide evidence that it does.³
I deny that if god exists, his authority would be good. He would be a tyrant. Unalterable, unchallengable and despotic. Unelected authority is just the use of force against people who disagree with you, rebellion against such an authority is just, regardless of the benevolance of the tyrant.⁴

¹You have obviously never read Wisdom or Proverbs, which have guides on how to live a just and wise life.
²On the contrary, it is the best source on history of the ancient Kingdom of Israel. Also, it provides a biography on Jesus Christ, the most important man to have ever lived.
³Many of the wisest men, such as St. Thomas Acquinas, were also very devout. God provides insight to those who ask for it through prayers.
⁴Are you Woodrow Wilson or something, if you think that any unelected ruler is bad? God is all-good, so he must reward the good and punish the bad. An all-good society is only possible with an all-good ruler, hence why Heaven is a place to strive for. There is no sense to having an elected deity, as that implies more than one candidate. First, if the candidates were not perfect, then they would not be worthy to be elected as deity, and such a society would not be perfect. Second, if the candidates were perfect, then there is no sense to having any elections at all, since the candidates are all essentially the same. As to God's absolute power, he created us all, and thus has complete dominion over us. Is not an all-good being with absolute power better than an all-good being with limited power, as the one with limited power could not do as much good as the one with absolute power?

I believe you should quit now, you are damaging your argument further by posting more.

[Ostroeuropa]

For your first point, you do realize that in the bible, God also killed women, and children as well right? And no, we're not talking about one or two here or there (though that still is quite despicable), we're talking about deaths in the thousands. There are no reasonable grounds for this action. It doesn't make sense to worship something just on the grounds of creation anyway, so the point is moot.

Second point, Satan didn't lie, it was God that lied, in the bible, God tells them that if they eat the fruit, they would die. Satan, truthfully, says that God was lying, and that they should eat it anyway.

Third point, this is an ad hominem argument with a bit of straw man fallacy sprinkled in.

Job's story always struck me as wrong since his kids were killed because God wanted to test Job. They through no fault of their own where killed...

Read 1984. It suddenly seems to make sense.
We must test his loyalty to big brother.

[Mavorpen]

¹You have obviously never read Wisdom or Proverbs, which have guides on how to live a just and wise life.

Enlighten us.

²On the contrary, it is the best source on history of the ancient Kingdom of Israel. Also, it provides a biography on Jesus Christ, the most important man to have ever lived.

LOLNOPE.

³Many of the wisest men, such as St. Thomas Acquinas, were also very devout. God provides insight to those who ask for it through prayers.

This has nothing to do with anything.

As to God's absolute power, he created us all, and thus has complete dominion over us. Is not an all-good being with absolute power better than an all-good being with limited power, as the one with limited power could not do as much good as the one with absolute power?

No.

[Neutraligon]

Job's story always struck me as wrong since his kids were killed because God wanted to test Job. They through no fault of their own where killed...

Read 1984. It suddenly seems to make sense.
We must test his loyalty to big brother.

Already have, and thought about that comparison.