CTALNH wrote:So would Lenin if he had ruled more after all Stalin wasn't the one that ordered the Tsars family executed and thrown in acid.
Thrown in a well. Lenin was plenty dictatorial, but let's not make shit up here.
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by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:49 am
CTALNH wrote:So would Lenin if he had ruled more after all Stalin wasn't the one that ordered the Tsars family executed and thrown in acid.
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:53 am
Zaras wrote:CTALNH wrote:
Totalitarianism is nothing more than taking the enforcement of laws to a more serious enforcement level.
The level where you murder people and shut them out of the process of making laws.
Face it, Stalin was no better than the fucking Tsar from Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin who sent soldiers to massacre civilians on the Odessa steps.
by Voerdeland » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:54 am
CTALNH wrote:Zaras wrote:
The level where you murder people and shut them out of the process of making laws.
Face it, Stalin was no better than the fucking Tsar from Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin who sent soldiers to massacre civilians on the Odessa steps.
Well not everything is fine and dandy you know if need be I would have to kill 100.000.000 people for achieving a worldwide unified federation I would do it without a second thought.
by Communist Quinntopia » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:56 am
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:57 am
by Of the Free Socialist Territories » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:15 am
Panageadom wrote:Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
Self-declaration of intent means little or nothing. North Korea describes itself as "democratic", so is it an example of the failure of democracy?
That's a fair point, but do you really feel that none of the examples of communist states were not, at any significant point of their development, trying to achieve a genuine communist society? Again, I'm a total layman, but I understand there was a fair amount of goodwill behind both the 1917 revolution and, to a lesser degree, the Chinese Civil War.
Or is a more telling point that none of the revolutionaries with claimed communist content and the means to power actually were, under your auspices, true communists? In that sense, not only may communist society be unstable, but communist intentions could be.
CTALNH wrote:Zaras wrote:
The level where you murder people and shut them out of the process of making laws.
Face it, Stalin was no better than the fucking Tsar from Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin who sent soldiers to massacre civilians on the Odessa steps.
Well not everything is fine and dandy you know if need be I would have to kill 100.000.000 people for achieving a worldwide unified federation I would do it without a second thought.
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:18 am
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:Panageadom wrote:
That's a fair point, but do you really feel that none of the examples of communist states were not, at any significant point of their development, trying to achieve a genuine communist society? Again, I'm a total layman, but I understand there was a fair amount of goodwill behind both the 1917 revolution and, to a lesser degree, the Chinese Civil War.
I'm not much of an expert on Mao, really, but the 1917 revolution was more or less finished when Lenin refused to work with the Socialist Revolutionaries.Or is a more telling point that none of the revolutionaries with claimed communist content and the means to power actually were, under your auspices, true communists? In that sense, not only may communist society be unstable, but communist intentions could be.
I'd argue instead that those claiming to be communists were not actually communists but merely power-hungry individuals who hit upon communism as an ideology with popular appeal, then abused this appeal and the ideology for their own ends.
See: USSR.
by Of the Free Socialist Territories » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:18 am
CTALNH wrote:Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
I'm not much of an expert on Mao, really, but the 1917 revolution was more or less finished when Lenin refused to work with the Socialist Revolutionaries.
I'd argue instead that those claiming to be communists were not actually communists but merely power-hungry individuals who hit upon communism as an ideology with popular appeal, then abused this appeal and the ideology for their own ends.
See: USSR.
Then at the same time all the people who you called "power-hungry individuals" can call you a liberal bourgeoisie anarchist
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:19 am
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:What? I do not understand what you are trying to say.
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:19 am
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:Panageadom wrote:
That's a fair point, but do you really feel that none of the examples of communist states were not, at any significant point of their development, trying to achieve a genuine communist society? Again, I'm a total layman, but I understand there was a fair amount of goodwill behind both the 1917 revolution and, to a lesser degree, the Chinese Civil War.
I'm not much of an expert on Mao, really, but the 1917 revolution was more or less finished when Lenin refused to work with the Socialist Revolutionaries.Or is a more telling point that none of the revolutionaries with claimed communist content and the means to power actually were, under your auspices, true communists? In that sense, not only may communist society be unstable, but communist intentions could be.
I'd argue instead that those claiming to be communists were not actually communists but merely power-hungry individuals who hit upon communism as an ideology with popular appeal, then abused this appeal and the ideology for their own ends.
See: USSR.CTALNH wrote:Well not everything is fine and dandy you know if need be I would have to kill 100.000.000 people for achieving a worldwide unified federation I would do it without a second thought.
- "The end only justifies the means so long as the means justify the end."
Leon Trotsky. If you have to kill 100,000,000 people to achieve something, it's probably not worth achieving.
Fortunately, in the absence of totalitarianism, killing 100,000,000 people to advance communism isn't necessary.
by Of the Free Socialist Territories » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:20 am
CTALNH wrote:Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
I'm not much of an expert on Mao, really, but the 1917 revolution was more or less finished when Lenin refused to work with the Socialist Revolutionaries.
I'd argue instead that those claiming to be communists were not actually communists but merely power-hungry individuals who hit upon communism as an ideology with popular appeal, then abused this appeal and the ideology for their own ends.
See: USSR.
- "The end only justifies the means so long as the means justify the end."
Leon Trotsky. If you have to kill 100,000,000 people to achieve something, it's probably not worth achieving.
Fortunately, in the absence of totalitarianism, killing 100,000,000 people to advance communism isn't necessary.
Trosky the man that was called a fool by his own son....
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:20 am
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:20 am
CTALNH wrote:Trosky the man that was called a fool by his own son....
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Of the Free Socialist Territories » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:21 am
by Ashmoria » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:21 am
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:Ashmoria wrote:fine
but that puts "communisim" into the category of anarchism in terms of being a useless political philosophy that has never and will never be put into practice on a national level.
i suppose that is a step up from the grim reality of communism around the world.
That is why I'm in favour of having a teeny tiny state, doing healthcare and not much else, rather than no state at all.
by Of the Free Socialist Territories » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:22 am
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:23 am
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Hippostania » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:23 am
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:23 am
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:24 am
CTALNH wrote:Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
So, what was the point you were trying to make about "liberal bourgeoisie"?
And more to the point, did I misread or did you just call me "liberal bourgeois scum"?
No I called you a "liberalist bourgeois scum" because you called every Leninist,Maoist,Stalinist out there power hungry individuals.
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Of the Free Socialist Territories » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:25 am
Hippostania wrote:I feel bad for agreeing with you. Stalinism isn't communism, but ultra-authoritarian socialism.
CTALNH wrote:Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
So, what was the point you were trying to make about "liberal bourgeoisie"?
And more to the point, did I misread or did you just call me "liberal bourgeois scum"?
No I called you a "liberalist bourgeois scum" because you called every Leninist,Maoist,Stalinist out there power hungry individuals.
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:26 am
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:29 am
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:31 am
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