[DEFEATED] Conscientious objection to abortion

[Old Hope]

"Yes."

Well, sir, let’s be realistic- if a person doesn’t want to perform abortions, sooner or later he will start “bothching” them on purpose. While they can’t do it de jure, because of WA law and all other things, de facto it is possible.

Why does it need to be on purpose? If you are performing a medical procedure then you need to work with precision and concentration. The capacity to do this is probably severely diminished in people forced to perform a medical procedure they are strongly opposed of. In reality, this proposal protects people from having unsafe abortions due to member states forcing people to perform abortions against their will without very good reasons.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

"You people in here have got an awfully dim view of doctors."

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Well, sir, let’s be realistic- if a person doesn’t want to perform abortions, sooner or later he will start “bothching” them on purpose. While they can’t do it de jure, because of WA law and all other things, de facto it is possible.

Why does it need to be on purpose? If you are performing a medical procedure then you need to work with precision and concentration. The capacity to do this is probably severely diminished in people forced to perform a medical procedure they are strongly opposed of. In reality, this proposal protects people from having unsafe abortions due to member states forcing people to perform abortions against their will without very good reasons.

Well, I simply stated an example of why this proposal is needed. I am sorry for not explaining myself throughout though- my English is somewhat weak, compared to yours.

Still, I do have a better example. Despite our government doing its best to save most of the fetuses after the abortion (because artificial wombs are very nice and dandy), the fact that due to WA legislations all of the doctors now have to perform abortions we have a nationwide shortage of gynecologists and obstetricians- most of them are simply resigning from their jobs due to religious reasons. Should this resolution pass, this problem would get fixed.

And before you ask, no, we can’t import medical professionals from overseas because reasons that I’m not allowed to state thanks to my retarded superiors.

[Northern Connecticut]

Hell no, abortion kills.

[Sincluda]

Hell no, abortion kills.

"Do you understand what the proposal is... proposing?"

[Thermodolia]

Hell no, abortion kills.

"Do you understand what the proposal is... proposing?"

“Reading comprehension must not be required nor taught in certain nations”

[Nondenominational Christian Commonwealth]

Conscientious objection to abortion
Human Rights: Mild

The World Assembly,

Recognising that it would be immoral to force a health care provider to perform an abortion if that medical provider has a bona fide conscientious objection to abortion,

Believing that forcing a medical provider to do so against his or her will would be counterproductive at ensuring safe and quality care, and

Confident that access to abortion is sufficiently provided by GA 499 'Access to Abortion' and requirements therein for member nations to provide affirmative access to abortion services at national expense, hereby enacts as follows:

1. No health care provider in any member nation who expresses a bona fide conscientious or religious objection to abortion may be required to perform or assist in any abortion, provided that such objection is communicated publicly in advance and that such objection does not impose a substantial burden on access of necessary treatment to preserve life or prevent severe permanent injury.
   
   
2. Health care providers, when exercising rights under section 1, must refer persons seeking an abortion to appropriate resources to access such services.
   
   
3. Assistance, in section 1, does not include the sale of, purchase of, or transacting in goods used in abortion services.

This resolution has my nation's full support. There are a few grammatical errors you may want to fix.

[Iona-ropa]

"My nation cannot support this motion. We believe that medical personnel take an oath to the medicine and client, never a personal belief. If one cannot separate themselves from life to serve in medicine, then they must never be placed in that position."

OOC, it's pretty broad and I think it's mostly good. But, I think wording could be shored up and errors corrected. Good job though.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

"My nation cannot support this motion. We believe that medical personnel take an oath to the medicine and client, never a personal belief. If one cannot separate themselves from life to serve in medicine, then they must never be placed in that position."

OOC, it's pretty broad and I think it's mostly good. But, I think wording could be shored up and errors corrected. Good job though.

Obraztsova: *takes a deep breath* Ambassador, to begin with, WHAT oath are you talking about? The Hippocratic oath, I presume? Well, I regret to inform you that in Laka Strolistandiler, medical personnel giver no oath because in our culture oaths are viewed as something dishonorable and a shameful display. Furthermore: the Hippocratic oath is basically an over saturated myth.

[The Python]

Has this been abandoned?

[Imperium Anglorum]

I've been less than fully active for a few weeks because I've been moving (then in July I get to move again!) and starting a new job. I intend to go forward with the proposal.

[Bears Armed]

Well, sir, let’s be realistic- if a person doesn’t want to perform abortions, sooner or later he will start “bothching” them on purpose. While they can’t do it de jure, because of WA law and all other things, de facto it is possible.

"Hrrmph! Is not anybody who has conscientious objections to abortion also hrrather likely to have conscientious objections to deliberately botching operations and thus harming their patients?
"Anyhows, this has our full support."

Irrina WhiteBear (MD,DS),
Medical Advisor,
Bears Armed Mission at the WA.

[WayNeacTia]

Geez.... I actually have to support this. Why the hell couldn't you have thought of this earlier? Abortion could have been summed up in one resolution, that forbids nations to outlaw abortion, but leaves these caveats in place.

[Kenmoria]

“Given the extent to which abortion is already mandated to be accessible under Reproductive Freedoms and On Abortion, I can see no reason to oppose this proposal. Due to the ending section of clause 1 and clause 2, abortion access will not be restricted to any patient seeking one, and the idea of allowing physicians freedom of conscience is not an objectionable one. This has my full support.”

[Greater Cesnica]

"Our nation shall support this measure when it is submitted."

[Bananaistan]

"It is a shame that this has been forwarded to the pre-voting floor, and it's a double shame that the provisions appear to apply to organisations and corporations as well as individuals.

"This is an anti-equality measure - I can think of no medical procedure that's open only to men which the WA allows individual health care providers to opt out of. We hope that more member states join us in opposing rolling back reproductive rights and the opening of this back which would allow to those who oppose women's rights to restrict them"

[Tinhampton]

Alexander Smith, Tinhamptonian Delegate-Ambassador to the World Assembly: Why must notice of conscientious objection be given publicly?

[Bears Armed]

Alexander Smith, Tinhamptonian Delegate-Ambassador to the World Assembly: Why must notice of conscientious objection be given publicly?

OOC: Perhaps to "prove" that such a belief, rather than [for example] personal or ideological malice against somebody involved, is the basis for their refusal to act in any specific case?

[Coronational Chechyans and affiliates]

If anything this doesn't go far enough. A doctor shouldn't be forced to conduct a nonlife saving surgery if they do not agree with it.

[Separatist Peoples]

If anything this doesn't go far enough. A doctor shouldn't be forced to conduct a nonlife saving surgery if they do not agree with it.

"Then the doctor should not be a doctor."

[Bears Armed]

If anything this doesn't go far enough. A doctor shouldn't be forced to conduct a nonlife saving surgery if they do not agree with it.

"Then the doctor should not be a doctor."

OOC: Doctors who were already doctors before a particular medical procedure became viable &/or legal should be allowed to opt out of performing it on grounds of conscience, rather than have their terms of service retroactively changed, but I agree that if a procedure is already both viable and legal before a doctor enters the profession then -- unless they are employed privately by a person or organisation that shares their moral qualms on the matter -- they should be considered obliged to carry it out when necessary if they have the necessary training & facilities.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Then the doctor should not be a doctor."

OOC: Doctors who were already doctors before a particular medical procedure became viable &/or legal should be allowed to opt out of performing it on grounds of conscience, rather than have their terms of service retroactively changed, but I agree that if a procedure is already both viable and legal before a doctor enters the profession then -- unless they are employed privately by a person or organisation that shares their moral qualms on the matter -- they should be considered obliged to carry it out when necessary if they have the necessary training & facilities.

Ooc: Not really looking to argue oocly on this topic.

[Bears Armed]

OOC: Doctors who were already doctors before a particular medical procedure became viable &/or legal should be allowed to opt out of performing it on grounds of conscience, rather than have their terms of service retroactively changed, but I agree that if a procedure is already both viable and legal before a doctor enters the profession then -- unless they are employed privately by a person or organisation that shares their moral qualms on the matter -- they should be considered obliged to carry it out when necessary if they have the necessary training & facilities.

Ooc: Not really looking to argue oocly on this topic.

OOC: Can't argue ICly on it, most of the Bears are too staunchly on the "protection of conscience" side to accept even this compromise... and have enough genuine ['scientific'] proof that at least some of their religious/mystical traditions are correct to be [mostly, usually] wary about premeditated breaking of the associated moral codes. Abortion, except in certain situations (e,g, when continued pregnancy would pose a significant direct threat to the mother's life or long-term physical health), is generally regarded as a breach of the second of the 'Eight Instructions' under which most of them [try to] live: "Bear shall respect Mother Nature, and Her works".
(Assisted suicide, except in certain situation [e.g. for mortally-injured individuals who could not be brought to healers or at least a hospice before they died anyway & did so in worse pain], runs up against the same 'Instruction'.)

[Waldenes]

“We are still delegating on this proposal... it is a tricky one. On one hand, we understand the concern of having doctors forced to perform a procedure they may be fundamentally against, for the patients sake. I can tell you I would most certainly NOT want to be under the knife in such a scenario. But, we also have major concerns about this. This proposal could set a precedent for rolling back reproductive rights in the future, and that is something we absolutely CANNOT support. I personally am of the side of our delegation that fears this proposal could turn into a Trojan horse against the future of reproductive rights.”

[Coronational Chechyans and affiliates]

If anything this doesn't go far enough. A doctor shouldn't be forced to conduct a nonlife saving surgery if they do not agree with it.

"Then the doctor should not be a doctor."

There are plenty of other nonessential surgeries that would fall under this. Many doctors will not do to many plastic surgeries. Or sex change or breast augmentations on children. As long as their are alternatives available doctors should be able to focus on their areas of expertise. They don't all have to do everything.