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[Legality Challenge] Repeal "Ban on Sterilisation of..."

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East Meranopirus
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Founded: Jul 28, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby East Meranopirus » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:00 pm

So, can we expect to see the full opinions before the year's end?
Sometimes lurking in WA. Sometimes lurking in GP. Also author of (probably soon to be repealed) GA Resolution #464

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Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The North Pacific
(as Gorundu)

Citizen of The Rejected Realms as Vuy, Citizen of The East Pacific as Arkhamanishka
I post on the forums almost exclusively with this nation.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
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Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:46 am

GenSec is a group of volunteers and more than half just had a mid-week holiday. Relax.

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:20 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:GenSec is a group of volunteers and more than half just had a mid-week holiday. Relax.

It was a legit bump from page 2, though.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
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Separatist Peoples
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Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:31 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:GenSec is a group of volunteers and more than half just had a mid-week holiday. Relax.

It was a legit bump from page 2, though.

Cool. That gets you out from under the mods. Not so much from GenSec. Chillax.

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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:29 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:GenSec is a group of volunteers and more than half just had a mid-week holiday. Relax.


Much like this from almost a year ago now?

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
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Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:11 am

Wayneactia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:GenSec is a group of volunteers and more than half just had a mid-week holiday. Relax.


Much like this from almost a year ago now?

Chillax.

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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:57 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:
Much like this from almost a year ago now?

Chillax.


For how long? 2025 soon enough to nag again?

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:38 am

Wayneactia wrote:For how long? 2025 soon enough to nag again?

Whether you actually are Chester or not, please stop "helping". Nag over in GenSec's own thread if you must.

Happy Finland's independence day to all GenSec peeps and everyone else, too! :D
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14679
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:07 am

Wayneactia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Chillax.


For how long? 2025 soon enough to nag again?

Chillax. Or don't. The demands of Chester Pearson motivate GenSec not at all.

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East Meranopirus
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Founded: Jul 28, 2018
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Postby East Meranopirus » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:12 am

Nudge nudge
Sometimes lurking in WA. Sometimes lurking in GP. Also author of (probably soon to be repealed) GA Resolution #464

Co-Founder of The Democratic Union
Minister of World Assembly Affairs of The North Pacific
(as Gorundu)

Citizen of The Rejected Realms as Vuy, Citizen of The East Pacific as Arkhamanishka
I post on the forums almost exclusively with this nation.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14679
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:11 pm

*** GA Secretariat Decision ***
Sierra Lyricalia, Separatist Peoples, Sciongrad, and Grays Harbor, hold that that the proposal is illegal for Honest Mistake based on the use of the term "ban". Bananaistan and Bears Armed dissent.

Separatist Peoples, Sciongrad, Grays Harbor, and Bears Armed hold that the proposal is illegal for Honest Mistake based on the use of the term "freely". Bananaistan and Sierra Lyricalia dissent.
Rule Challenged: Honest Mistake.

First, we are asked to interpret the Honest Mistake rule regarding an argument about the target resolution. The repeal argues that "that the resolution bears a misleading title, as it does not actually ban the sterilisation of minors[.]" The challenge argues that "[t]he assertion that the target resolution does not ban the sterilisation of minors is false. The sterilization of minors is explicitly banned when it is not approved by an IRB as specified by the target resolution. Therefore, the clause makes a factually inaccurate claim about the target resolution’s function which could very easily have been fixed by claiming it does not ‘totally ban sterilization’ or some derivative of such."

Initially, the standard for an Honest Mistake requires the author make a colorable interpretation of WA law. GenSec won't limit plausible interpretations, but will strike down those patently unreasonable or unworkable. Repeal arguments need not be the best argument or interpretation, merely a colorable one.

The contention is that the term "ban" as used in the target does not operate as a ban. While constraining ourselves to a narrow view is arguably safer, there are unquestionably other resolutions that use the term "ban" in the title without operating as an absolute ban. Even were that not the case, the term ban is not itself absolute in ordinary parlance or in legal contexts. A ban is a prohibition, but the existence of exceptions does not obviate the prohibition. Thus, as the proposal does ban the sterilisation of minors, it is an Honest Mistake to say the resolution does not. Such an interpretation is not a colorable interpretation, and unfairly misconstrues the operation of GAR#472.

Next, we are asked to apply the Honest Mistake rule to an interpretation of how committees operate in the GA. The Repeal states, in relevant part: "Alarmed that clause two freely allows the World Assembly Compliance Commission (WACC) to create further regulations on behalf of the World Assembly, without needing to consult the will of the combined member nations;" The challenge argues that "[i]t is factually incorrect to claim that the committee (WACC) can ‘freely’ create regulations . . . It is limited to the scope of regulation permitted by the targeted legislation, specifically: 'regulations to clarify upon and enforce this resolution.'" We agree with the challenger's position.

Committees in GA law operate, by necessity, on a delegation of power scheme. The WA can only act where the membership democratically concedes power. Similarly, a committee cannot do what the WA could not by direct mandate. Nor either can a committee reasonably act beyond it's directive, simply by nature of how the game works. Resolutions are created by statements and directives: without a directive, there is nothing. Those directives may be sweeping, but are necessarily limited by the World Assembly's empowering explicit directives to the committee.

Whether a committee, then, can act freely depends on the extent of a committee's directive. Freely means the ability to act without restriction or interference. Being unable to exceed it's directive is a restriction, and a committee requires a new resolution, passed democratically by the World Assembly, to expand it's directive. This is not free. Thus, the argument that a committee can act without restriction from the World Assembly is a patently unreasonable interpretation and does not survive the colorability test for Honest Mistake. Thus, the repeal is illegal.

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:44 am

Finally, thank you.

Lesson learned: Need to lie more so that the language is more colourful and harder to suss the real meaning of. :D
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14679
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:13 am

Araraukar wrote:Finally, thank you.

Lesson learned: Need to lie more so that the language is more colourful and harder to suss the real meaning of. :D

This one was my fault. I thought I had posted it and only realized I hadn't this weekend.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat,
Authority on All Existence,
Globalist Dog,
Dark Psychic Vampire, and
Chief Populist Elitist!


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Sierra Lyricalia
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Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:21 am

*** Dissent ***

Sierra Lyricalia, joined by Bananaistan, partially dissents as per the below.

Dissent as to the Question of "Freely"

While I agree with the Majority's analysis of the "ban" question, I respectfully dissent regarding the repeal's use of the word "freely." The language of the repeal's target (GAR #472) as well as that of the previous resolutions that mention the WA Compliance Commission (GAR #390 and GAR #440) is quite expansive in its vision of how this committee is to operate.
This august World Assembly hereby:

1. Establishes and empowers the WACC, hereafter referred to as the Compliance Commission, to conduct investigations on matters vis-à-vis observance with World Assembly resolutions and thereby establish an impartial and objective factual basis for future claims of jurisdiction and prosecutions thereof;
Article II. Compliance Commission

1. The World Assembly establishes the World Assembly Solicitor’s Office (“WASO”) as a subset of the WA Compliance Commission (“WACC”), and directs it to:

  1. Review investigations regarding member noncompliance;
  2. Accept reports of noncompliance from both member states and individual and sub-national entities, subject to WASO discretion;
  3. File a complaint, containing evidence and all applicable law, to the Independent Adjudicative Office and accordingly prosecute that complaint;
  4. Communicate with those member states which are the subject of the complaint and inform them of any available steps that might prevent filing of a complaint;
  5. Maintain discretion over which compliance violations to pursue.
2. The WACC may make regulations to clarify upon and enforce this resolution.

In the resolutions that give the WACC its initial mandate, there is virtually no national law or conduct that escapes its notice. It is first and foremost an investigative agency whose jurisdiction is every possible violator of WA law - chiefly every member state government, but also those individuals in positions of power from which they could commit every international crime from slavery or hazardous child labor to being insufficiently ardent in their promotion of beekeeping. And now, with the target resolution, this overarching investigative agency is tasked with enforcement of a particular resolution.

Not only enforcement, but also clarification. Not only may the WACC create regulations to enforce the ban on sterilization of minors, it may also issue opinions and regulations to "clarify" what it means. The interpretative power opens up a universe of potential regulations that no reasonable person would expect to see as an enforcement aid for the target resolution, but which we cannot claim the WACC wouldn't enact. Further, the WACC may do any of this at its sole discretion. "The WACC may make regulations..." not "...shall..." (emphasis added). As Bananaistan put it here, "The committee is free, IE without any oversight or control from the GA, to implement any such regulations (or none) in furtherance of its mandate to enforce the target. This is substantially greater freedom to act than committees are usually granted in resolutions."
Desmosthenes and Burke wrote:"The committee finds that the use of certain hormones (annex A) on dairy cattle leads to an increased concentration of these hormones in dairy milk and products produced from cattle so treated as to be above the naturally occurring level.

The committee further finds that evidence exists, of sufficient strength, to conclude that consumption of such excess hormones from food sources poses a significant danger to the reproductive ability of minors, including possible sterilization at sufficient prevalence in the food chain.

The committee hereby bans the production, importation, or exportation of milk and milk products from cows treated with hormones included in annex A of this order as unnecessary to the long-term health of any person."

When given such a broad mandate as this, "freely" may even be an understatement. I therefore cannot support the Majority's ruling that the word, or the argument in which it appears, constitutes an Honest Mistake.
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Araraukar
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Posts: 14435
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:25 am

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:*snip*

...can we enter negotiations with you and Banana to use some of that wording in the next attempt? :lol:
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14679
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:09 pm

I'm fairly sure that GenSec has no exclusive interest in its rulings. No risk of plagiarizing.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat,
Authority on All Existence,
Globalist Dog,
Dark Psychic Vampire, and
Chief Populist Elitist!


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