[DRAFT] The Act of Petroleum Suppression

[Wrapper]

Well, petroleum is not a mineral, it isn't converted to crude oil, and we aren't even going to read the rest of it, because this shows that you do not have a clear understanding of the subject matter.

[Separatist Peoples]

So, I should say countries capable of providing such funds, and capable of getting along without petroleum must work towards finding better sources of energy?

"No. You should drop this. It won't pass."

[Chester Pearson]

The bullshit being spewed by this draft is almost enough to give one eye cancer by reading it....

Author. I suggest you abandon this nightmare immediately, until you have a remote clue how things actually work around here. Be warned, if you fail to heed this advice, you will be torn to shreds over this, and I will first in line to begin tearing......

[Louisistan]

The bullshit being spewed by this draft is almost enough to give one eye cancer by reading it....

Author. I suggest you abandon this nightmare immediately, until you have a remote clue how things actually work around here. Be warned, if you fail to heed this advice, you will be torn to shreds over this, and I will first in line to begin tearing......

Although you will approve his proposal, just for the fun of it, right?

[Chester Pearson]

The bullshit being spewed by this draft is almost enough to give one eye cancer by reading it....

Author. I suggest you abandon this nightmare immediately, until you have a remote clue how things actually work around here. Be warned, if you fail to heed this advice, you will be torn to shreds over this, and I will first in line to begin tearing......

Although you will approve his proposal, just for the fun of it, right?

Of course.... How can I encourage them to submit three illegals and be booted, without approving them?

[Frustrated Franciscans]

Of course.... How can I encourage them to submit three illegals and be booted, without approving them?

I point to the MODS ... Observe my Exhibit A! How can you scoff at my proposal made years ago that anyone who approved a proposal worthy of getting a warning not, in turn, get a warning as well? These unrepentant scum needs to be purged from the WA ... WITH FIRE!

[Ainocra]

Not all member states are on the same planet or even in the same dimension. We of Ainocra mine fossil fuels from an uninhabited moon that orbits a gas giant in a nearby system. The moon is rich in hydrocarbons and the orbital refineries can process it into nearly anything you might need.

Cheap, abundant, efficient, and clean.

[Western Mars]

Not all member states are on the same planet or even in the same dimension. We of Ainocra mine fossil fuels from an uninhabited moon that orbits a gas giant in a nearby system. The moon is rich in hydrocarbons and the orbital refineries can process it into nearly anything you might need.

Cheap, abundant, efficient, and clean.

Technical point: it's not really a "fossil" fuel if it's not derived from, ah, decomposition of organic matter.

[The Federal Triumvirate of Xing]

Well, can you guys rewrite it to make sense?

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

Well, can you guys rewrite it to make sense?

No such thing:

The bullshit being spewed by this draft is almost enough to give one eye cancer by reading it....

Author. I suggest you abandon this nightmare immediately, until you have a remote clue how things actually work around here. Be warned, if you fail to heed this advice, you will be torn to shreds over this, and I will first in line to begin tearing......

Not all member states are on the same planet or even in the same dimension. We of Ainocra mine fossil fuels from an uninhabited moon that orbits a gas giant in a nearby system. The moon is rich in hydrocarbons and the orbital refineries can process it into nearly anything you might need.

Cheap, abundant, efficient, and clean.

[The Federal Triumvirate of Xing]

Well, Zolir wrote it thinking that this game was realistic. In any case, we were trying to have it passed mainly for the good of our region. However, now that we know how this works, we'll be using synthetic Merkhabas and Artificial Quasars to create and mass-produce energy.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

Well, Zolir wrote it thinking that this game was realistic. In any case, we were trying to have it passed mainly for the good of our region. However, now that we know how this works, we'll be using synthetic Merkhabas and Artificial Quasars to create and mass-produce energy.

See that?
Yeah, when it comes to the WA, everyone or no one is involved within resolutions.

[Chester Pearson]

Well, Zolir wrote it thinking that this game was realistic. In any case, we were trying to have it passed mainly for the good of our region. However, now that we know how this works, we'll be using synthetic Merkhabas and Artificial Quasars to create and mass-produce energy.

Then pass it through your regional government, and leave the rest of us out of it.....

Of course.... How can I encourage them to submit three illegals and be booted, without approving them?

I point to the MODS ... Observe my Exhibit A! How can you scoff at my proposal made years ago that anyone who approved a proposal worthy of getting a warning not, in turn, get a warning as well? These unrepentant scum needs to be purged from the WA ... WITH FIRE!

I'm sorry..... Are you speaking some other language than English? I can't seem to figure out what the fuck you are railing on about.

[The Dark Star Republic]

I'm sorry..... Are you speaking some other language than English? I can't seem to figure out what the fuck you are railing on about.

He made a proposal that would see any delegate who approved an illegal proposal receive a warning themselves. He's using your behaviour here as an argument as to why that proposal should be allowed.

I can't explain why he finds that remotely funny, however.

[Chester Pearson]

I'm sorry..... Are you speaking some other language than English? I can't seem to figure out what the fuck you are railing on about.

He made a proposal that would see any delegate who approved an illegal proposal receive a warning themselves. He's using your behaviour here as an argument as to why that proposal should be allowed.

I can't explain why he finds that remotely funny, however.

OOC: Thank you for clarifying that. If he believes that I am doing something wrong, then he should feel free to file a GHR on the matter.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

All OOC.

Well, can you guys rewrite it to make sense?

Lemme make an analogy that should hopefully clear things up for you, for the author, and for the slew of recently-founded nations that have dropped in recently thinking they'd write a whole bunch of awesome §ђ¡ꜩ with the flick of a wrist. This seems to be as good a thread as any to do it in. I hope this gets across why some of us have reacted the way we have and why you might be feeling like we're all shouting "Siddown and shaddup!" without any provocation other than we're jerks. There are actually very good reasons.

The way that this author (and a bunch of others) is trying to write international law(!) is basically the same process as if I got my driving learner's permit, drove immediately to a race track at which there is already a race in progress, drove onto the track and started competing; then, when the other drivers start honking and swearing at me and sending me texts with advice (OK, so it's not a perfect analogy, but bear with me), I respond with things like "OK, how about if I pass this guy, but let that guy go by? Or what if I drove with my pinky fingers extended, instead of gripping the wheel with all ten? Would it help if I changed gears on the next curve? That should improve my race results, right???"

It's not about inserting a word here and changing one there; it's not about saying Oh hey, switching out that policy will make this better, right? What the writing of late has lacked isn't a matter of what you should pick; it's much more basic than that. What's missing is a clear strategy for how you want to win the race, an underlying instinct for the way cars move in space both at speed and when idling, any sense of how the other drivers see the track and the wider world and their own place in both, and any understanding whatsoever of the vastity of your limitations. The reason why the number one piece of advice you've been getting from both the FAQ and from every single person who's been here more than a few weeks is to slow down, observe the process for a while, participate in critiques of other drafts before trying your own - is because that's the only way you'll ever do well at it. Please, for buggeration's sake and in the name of sanity and good sense, try to heed that advice.

Forum regulars may have come off rude sometimes as the current crop of newbies has tried to draft stuff, but everyone everywhere comes off rude when loud people who understand nothing of what makes a community tick blunder into it and start shouting stuff with no sense behind it and making a big mess. If you're over the age of like twelve or fifteen, someone's done that to you, too, at some point. And it pissed you off. You remember. And there was only so much energy you could expend trying to help them learn what the hell was what when they made no effort to sit quietly and observe it on their own first? Well, that's what it's like for us here. Some of you may be fantastic drivers some day, and we'll all love watching you race. But it's just not gonna happen without a lot of effort and the assumption that you do not, in fact, know anything about this yet.

...thinking that this game was realistic.

Realistic, huh? So how many years have you been practicing law, working in the diplomatic service, or coordinating international NGO activities?

[Normlpeople]

Clover, after reading the draft, required several minutes before being able to compose herself. "You know", she said "Most environmentalists are at reasonable even if I don't agree with them. This is so radically draconian its almost a joke. Your lack of understanding the process of drilling for crude and distilling petroleum doesn't lend much to your credibility. As for the draft itself, it would devastate most of the world's economies, making the entire WA a charity case. As we like our economy and the benefits it brings, I won't be supporting this."

[Goddess Relief Office]

I applaud the goal behind the resolution, but BANNING petroleum use is far too extreme.

There are other ways to discourage petroleum use, such as levying taxes and subsidizing the use of alternative forms of energy. I can't support this as it stands.

[Imperializt Russia]

we should still petrol in the meantime while we build more sustainable energy sources (algae) (wind power)(solar power) and generally let oil live out a half life decline as we replace it with the above mentioned energy sources over time. banning it outright would KILL the world economy outright.

"Riiiiiight. What do cars run on in your nation? Rainbows and unicorn whispers?"

electric cars have proven themselves to be a totally fine form of transport. srsly electric cars ain't the thing of tomorrow THEY ARE ALREADY HERE http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 7589,d.cGU

and solar panels(though expensive(due to them not being mass produced) can charge houses over time. wind farms are (again) already proven to be a viable form of power and are already being used industrially http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... GU&cad=rja

Renewable sources will not support a first world energy demand.
The best "electric" cars are "diesel-electric" (substitute fuel as appropriate) wherein a combustion engine drives an electric motor. The most interesting concept is probably hydrogen-cell. Direct-electric cars running from batteries are hideously flawed.

[Defwa]

we should still petrol in the meantime while we build more sustainable energy sources (algae) (wind power)(solar power) and generally let oil live out a half life decline as we replace it with the above mentioned energy sources over time. banning it outright would KILL the world economy outright.



electric cars have proven themselves to be a totally fine form of transport. srsly electric cars ain't the thing of tomorrow THEY ARE ALREADY HERE http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 7589,d.cGU

and solar panels(though expensive(due to them not being mass produced) can charge houses over time. wind farms are (again) already proven to be a viable form of power and are already being used industrially http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... GU&cad=rja

Renewable sources will not support a first world energy demand.
The best "electric" cars are "diesel-electric" (substitute fuel as appropriate) wherein a combustion engine drives an electric motor. The most interesting concept is probably hydrogen-cell. Direct-electric cars running from batteries are hideously flawed.

OOC because Tesla makes blenders and not awesome electric cars. Real world renewables can totally meet first world needs- one just needs to invest.

IC though this proposal is unsalvageable, I must point out that most cars in Defwa are electric and have been since 2002. Electric cars are the only ones legal to drive in the city. And even though our renewable sources are limited compared to most countries, wind still satisfies 30% of our needs.

[Talonis]

So I break apart all my stuff and remove my ability to remake it, and then have to remake everything in a backwards manner?

[Sierra Lyricalia]

OOC because Tesla makes blenders and not awesome electric cars. Real world renewables can totally meet first world needs- one just needs to invest.

OOC: See, that's the kicker, isn't it?

Most people don't have ~~$70,000 lying around to plunk down on the kind of electric vehicle that would meet the needs they're accustomed to meeting with a $10-15k gasoline-engined car; and even if they did, wind/solar/hydro generation have all kinds of political hangups (not even getting started on nuclear) just to get the permits in place, from NIMBYism to actual environmental issues in the case of dams (comparatively minor, but still). "One just needs to invest" isn't a compelling reason for the world's biggest energy producers to convert their entire raison d'etre wholesale from petroleum production to carbon-neutral energy production. If the first world powers all ramped their taxes on oil company profits up to ~95%, coupled with a dollar for dollar (pound for pound, euro for euro) tax credit where for every penny invested in the creation of renewable energy infrastructure they got to keep another penny of profits - then you'd see some investment. Oh yeah, and you'd also need to force them at gunpoint not to dissolve and reincorporate in the Caymans or Iran or someplace to get out of it. But since they already own all the governments that theoretically oversee them, they'll never let anything like that happen, not even at something reasonable like 50%. Far easier for them to continue to keep democratic oversight at arm's length and just keep drilling.

IC: I'm afraid this is simply too much for most of the Assembly to swallow, ambassador. Forcing a complete conversion of the fundamental energy basis of the entire economy in what amounts to overnight is, if even possible, begging for disasters as some snags might be hit leaving thousands or even millions of people without (say) home electricity in the dead of winter, all because the government was forced to move far quicker than anyone should have had to to get the entire new national infrastructure up and running. If you want to salvage this in any way, it needs to be significantly tempered (and even then, there's a large swath of the WA who votes against environmental anything just on general "principles").

[Imperializt Russia]

Renewable sources will not support a first world energy demand.
The best "electric" cars are "diesel-electric" (substitute fuel as appropriate) wherein a combustion engine drives an electric motor. The most interesting concept is probably hydrogen-cell. Direct-electric cars running from batteries are hideously flawed.

OOC because Tesla makes blenders and not awesome electric cars. Real world renewables can totally meet first world needs- one just needs to invest.

IC though this proposal is unsalvageable, I must point out that most cars in Defwa are electric and have been since 2002. Electric cars are the only ones legal to drive in the city. And even though our renewable sources are limited compared to most countries, wind still satisfies 30% of our needs.

A weather-dependent base grid is pretty much flawed by definition.
Everyone putting a solar panel on their own building though? That's neat.

Solar panels are environmentally problematic to manufacture and wind turbines are physically dangerous. The RL world output of renewable energy (specifically wind and solar) is so low that in terms of deaths per TWh, nuclear is actually way ahead in terms of safety.
The Chernobyl disaster might ever cause as many deaths as coal does in hours.

[Defwa]

OOC because Tesla makes blenders and not awesome electric cars. Real world renewables can totally meet first world needs- one just needs to invest.

IC though this proposal is unsalvageable, I must point out that most cars in Defwa are electric and have been since 2002. Electric cars are the only ones legal to drive in the city. And even though our renewable sources are limited compared to most countries, wind still satisfies 30% of our needs.

A weather-dependent base grid is pretty much flawed by definition.
Everyone putting a solar panel on their own building though? That's neat.

Solar panels are environmentally problematic to manufacture and wind turbines are physically dangerous. The RL world output of renewable energy (specifically wind and solar) is so low that in terms of deaths per TWh, nuclear is actually way ahead in terms of safety.
The Chernobyl disaster might ever cause as many deaths as coal does in hours.

Unique geography. Constant nationwide eastward wind, few birds.
Not much sun. But we're eagerly awaiting the completion of A rather large nuclear plant.