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DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

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Sionis Prioratus
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DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:31 pm

[International Security / Strong]

THE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD ASSEMBLED,

AWARE that an overwhelming majority of World Assembly civilizations are dependant on nearby Star Systems, or are otherwise located inside Galaxies, each containing on average billions of stars,

ALSO AWARE that stars undergo a life cycle, that often results at its end in a cataclysmic explosion called a Supernova,

DEFINING, for the purposes of this Resolution, supernovae as exploding stars which are extremely luminous and cause a burst of radiation that often briefly outshines an entire galaxy, before fading from view over several weeks or months. During this short interval, a supernova can radiate as much energy as a regular carbon-based life sustaining star could emit over its entire life span. The explosion expels much or all of a star's material at a velocity of up to a tenth the speed of light, driving a shock wave into the surrounding interstellar medium.

EXTREMELY CONCERNED the occurrence such an event, if unexpected, can completely annihilate several biospheres of innumerable nearby Star Systems, causing the deaths of up to hundreds of billions of persons, not to mention the irretrievable loss of innumerable entire civilizations,

Therefore, it is resolved:

The International Astronomical Union (IAU) is hereby established; its mandate is to:

a) Track stars for accurately and scientifically predicting when stars might be approaching a supernova state, the explosions of which could cause harm to World Assembly citizens;
b) Track other naturally occurring cosmic events, such as comet impacts, which may cause mass extinctions and/or citizens’ deaths in World Assembly member Nations;

To achieve these ends, the IAU shall use star probing artifacts, such as planet or orbit-based telescopes, deploying its own or utilizing the ones already in operation in consortium with the Nations that own them;

The IAU shall issue standards for verifying if such artifacts are suitable for the successful executing of its mandate;

Star system based civilizations which do not have any such artifacts shall have the option of having them installed on the surface of its planets and/or its satellites, or placed in its orbits;

The resources for IAU's operation shall come from the World Assembly and private donations;

IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.
Last edited by Sionis Prioratus on Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Linux and the X
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Linux and the X » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:39 pm

Unless this proposal finds a way to travel faster than light, it would not be possible to be aware of a supernova in time to do anything about it.
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Sionis Prioratus
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:50 pm

Linux and the X wrote:Unless this proposal finds a way to travel faster than light, it would not be possible to be aware of a supernova in time to do anything about it.


Hon. Ambassador, astronomical events require thinking outside the "normal", usual time frame of sapient beings, that being the life expectancy. Of course, especially given IAU recent implementation, there would be situations where a star explosion might reasonably be predicted to happen in (let us say) five years. Not much could be done in such a scenario indeed.

(Anyway, it bears bringing to attention some nations do claim to have reached faster-than-light travel, and base their economies in the implementation of such a technology)

But if the IAU does predict a star will explode in fifteen million years, even with mid-level space travel technology, much could be done to relocate a civilization to a safe place.
Last edited by Sionis Prioratus on Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Charlotte Ryberg
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:06 pm

Honoured ambassador, quite recently Charlotte Ryberg has expanded into the Future Tech, covering what is known as the M25 Constellation. In the wake of the establishment of the galaxy map, it would be a great idea for a resolution that urges space-capable member states to help the evacuation of civilians living in the shadow of unstable stars.

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Sionis Prioratus
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:47 pm

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:Honoured ambassador, quite recently Charlotte Ryberg has expanded into the Future Tech, covering what is known as the M25 Constellation. In the wake of the establishment of the galaxy map, it would be a great idea for a resolution that urges space-capable member states to help the evacuation of civilians living in the shadow of unstable stars.


Thank you very much, Hon. & Esteemed Ambassador for your preliminary support. Minor edits have been made.

As always, I'd appreciate intense scrutiny as to possible inconsistencies / illegalities / contradictions / duplications / additions, etc.

Yours truly,

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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:05 pm

The Protection of Outer Space Act by Stash Kroh is a future resolution at vote that may affect the final layout of this draft, because of the space exploration. There is also my general disaster resolution (#51) which already covers humanitarian aid, so therefore this is not a problem, but in addition to your draft you may extend the duties of the IHACC to cover space disasters (the definition of a disaster over there is compatible with this cause).

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Krioval
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Krioval » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:26 pm

OOC: I'm not opposed to an international consortium of observatories, but this proposal is deficient in stellar physics. If there is somebody who has an advanced degree in astrophysics, I would ask for their help in correcting this.

Sionis Prioratus wrote:[International Security / Strong]

THE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD ASSEMBLED,

AWARE that an overwhelming majority of World Assembly civilizations are dependant on nearby Star Systems, or are otherwise located inside Galaxies, each containing on average billions of stars,

ALSO AWARE that stars undergo a life cycle, that often results at its end in a cataclysmic explosion called a Supernova,


Most stars do not undergo supernovae at the end of their lifespan. Only those stars of mass nine times or greater than that of Earth's sun are even capable of such a catastrophic explosion, and those are relatively rare.

DEFINING, for the purposes of this Resolution, supernovae as exploding stars which are extremely luminous and cause a burst of radiation that often briefly outshines an entire galaxy, before fading from view over several weeks or months. During this short interval, a supernova can radiate as much energy as a regular carbon-based life sustaining star could emit over its entire life span. The explosion expels much or all of a star's material at a velocity of up to a tenth the speed of light, driving a shock wave into the surrounding interstellar medium.


If by "outshine an entire galaxy", one means "has a higher 'light density' than its host galaxy", then technically this is true. It is not always the case, and "often" may be too strong a word. Perhaps it "sometimes" or "occasionally" exhibits this property, but that does not have to be part of the definition. Best is simplicity: a supernova is an exploding star.

EXTREMELY CONCERNED the occurrence such an event, if unexpected, can completely annihilate several biospheres of innumerable nearby Star Systems, causing the deaths of up to hundreds of billions of persons, not to mention the irretrievable loss of innumerable entire civilizations,


A supernova cannot be "unexpected". It takes anywhere from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of years for a star to become a supernova. A long time prior to that, the star would already have rendered any planets in its orbit uninhabitable. Even this process would be so gradual as to not make a likely impact on any life living there - it would either die off from natural non-stellar-related causes, or it would find a way to leave the star system. Ultimately, stellar evolution takes a long, long time, making planetary processes look fast by comparison.

A supernova would have no effect on neighboring star systems. The distance for the radiation to travel is simply too great. For an example, Earth's sun is four light-years from Alpha Centauri. If that star were to explode, the intensity of any radiation would decay proportional to the square of the distance traveled. That's not mentioning dampening from the heliosphere of the neighboring star (solar wind plus magnetosphere) and planetary atmospheres and magnetospheres (of planets orbiting the neighboring star).

Therefore, it is resolved:

The International Astronomical Union (IAU) is hereby established; its mandate is to:

a) Track stars for accurately and scientifically predicting when stars might be approaching a supernova state, the explosions of which could cause harm to World Assembly citizens;


No, for reasons mentioned above.

b) Track other naturally occurring cosmic events, such as comet impacts, which may cause mass extinctions and/or citizens’ deaths in World Assembly member Nations;


Better.

To achieve these ends, the IAU shall use star probing artifacts, such as planet or orbit-based telescopes, deploying its own or utilizing the ones already in operation in consortium with the Nations that own them;

The IAU shall issue standards for verifying if such artifacts are suitable for the successful executing of its mandate;


Now we're going to have an international organization to tell me whether my telescope is good enough?

Star system based civilizations which do not have any such artifacts shall have the option of having them installed on the surface of its planets and/or its satellites, or placed in its orbits;


Why shouldn't deep space civilizations be included in this?

The resources for IAU's operation shall come from the World Assembly and private donations;

IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.


Give me a quarter million years and I'll be right over.

Maybe you could write a proposal to foster international cooperation in space observation. As it stands, though, supernovae are not going to surprise anybody. They just don't work that way.

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Sionis Prioratus
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:04 pm

Krioval wrote:OOC: I'm not opposed to an international consortium of observatories, but this proposal is deficient in stellar physics. If there is somebody who has an advanced degree in astrophysics, I would ask for their help in correcting this.

Sionis Prioratus wrote:[International Security / Strong]

THE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD ASSEMBLED,

AWARE that an overwhelming majority of World Assembly civilizations are dependant on nearby Star Systems, or are otherwise located inside Galaxies, each containing on average billions of stars,

ALSO AWARE that stars undergo a life cycle, that often results at its end in a cataclysmic explosion called a Supernova,


Most stars do not undergo supernovae at the end of their lifespan. Only those stars of mass nine times or greater than that of Earth's sun are even capable of such a catastrophic explosion, and those are relatively rare.

DEFINING, for the purposes of this Resolution, supernovae as exploding stars which are extremely luminous and cause a burst of radiation that often briefly outshines an entire galaxy, before fading from view over several weeks or months. During this short interval, a supernova can radiate as much energy as a regular carbon-based life sustaining star could emit over its entire life span. The explosion expels much or all of a star's material at a velocity of up to a tenth the speed of light, driving a shock wave into the surrounding interstellar medium.


If by "outshine an entire galaxy", one means "has a higher 'light density' than its host galaxy", then technically this is true. It is not always the case, and "often" may be too strong a word. Perhaps it "sometimes" or "occasionally" exhibits this property, but that does not have to be part of the definition. Best is simplicity: a supernova is an exploding star.


If the deficiency spotted in this segment is the word "often", it can be corrected.

As for "best is simplicity": I have to disagree. Perception of the magnitude of the processes involved is paramount. The everyday concept of the word "explosion" is something like fireworks. There's a remarkable and tangible difference in perception between "[enhanced] fireworks" and a "explosion [which] expels much or all of a star's material at a velocity of up to a tenth the speed of light, driving a shock wave into the surrounding interstellar medium". It may seem needless drama. Dramatic it is, but the most important is that it is a fact.

Krioval wrote:A supernova cannot be "unexpected". It takes anywhere from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of years for a star to become a supernova. A long time prior to that, the star would already have rendered any planets in its orbit uninhabitable. Even this process would be so gradual as to not make a likely impact on any life living there - it would either die off from natural non-stellar-related causes, or it would find a way to leave the star system. Ultimately, stellar evolution takes a long, long time, making planetary processes look fast by comparison.


The star evolution might also render a previously uninhabitable planet inhabitable. Tough luck for those who have had a shorter evolution window?

Krioval wrote:A supernova would have no effect on neighboring star systems. The distance for the radiation to travel is simply too great. For an example, Earth's sun is four light-years from Alpha Centauri. If that star were to explode, the intensity of any radiation would decay proportional to the square of the distance traveled. That's not mentioning dampening from the heliosphere of the neighboring star (solar wind plus magnetosphere) and planetary atmospheres and magnetospheres (of planets orbiting the neighboring star).


Patently false.

Krioval wrote:
Therefore, it is resolved:

The International Astronomical Union (IAU) is hereby established; its mandate is to:

a) Track stars for accurately and scientifically predicting when stars might be approaching a supernova state, the explosions of which could cause harm to World Assembly citizens;


No, for reasons mentioned above.


Yes, for reasons mentioned above.

Krioval wrote:
b) Track other naturally occurring cosmic events, such as comet impacts, which may cause mass extinctions and/or citizens’ deaths in World Assembly member Nations;


Better.


Glad you agree.

Krioval wrote:
To achieve these ends, the IAU shall use star probing artifacts, such as planet or orbit-based telescopes, deploying its own or utilizing the ones already in operation in consortium with the Nations that own them;

The IAU shall issue standards for verifying if such artifacts are suitable for the successful executing of its mandate;


Now we're going to have an international organization to tell me whether my telescope is good enough?


If it is good enough for you, it is good enough for you. If it is not good enough for the IAU, it will deploy its own telescope on the farthest orbit of the farthest satellite of the farthest system of the farthest star you have.

Krioval wrote:
Star system based civilizations which do not have any such artifacts shall have the option of having them installed on the surface of its planets and/or its satellites, or placed in its orbits;


Why shouldn't deep space civilizations be included in this?


It will be considered.

Krioval wrote:
The resources for IAU's operation shall come from the World Assembly and private donations;

IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.


Give me a quarter million years and I'll be right over.

Maybe you could write a proposal to foster international cooperation in space observation. As it stands, though, supernovae are not going to surprise anybody. They just don't work that way.


Well, again: wrong.

I thank Your Honor for your cooperation, and I hope it can continue.

Yours,
Last edited by Sionis Prioratus on Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Krioval
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Krioval » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:18 pm

Sionis Prioratus wrote:If the deficiency spotted in this segment is the word "often", it can be corrected.


The problem is with the definition of "outshines", to be honest. If you're in a well lit room and a flashbulb goes off, it could be said to have "outshined" the ambient light. The lights are still putting out more light in the aggregate.

As for "best is simplicity": I have to disagree. Perception of the magnitude of the processes involved is paramount. The everyday concept of the word "explosion" is something like fireworks. There's a remarkable and tangible difference in perception between "[enhanced] fireworks" and a "explosion [which] expels much or all of a star's material at a velocity of up to a tenth the speed of light, driving a shock wave into the surrounding interstellar medium". It may seem needless drama. Dramatic it is, but the most important is that it is a fact.


I think that most people can conceive of the intensity of a supernova. I think that most people are going to categorize "stellar explosion" and "fireworks" differently. Yes, it is dramatic. No, I don't think that we need the entire process spelled out in a WA proposal.

Krioval wrote:A supernova cannot be "unexpected". It takes anywhere from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of years for a star to become a supernova. A long time prior to that, the star would already have rendered any planets in its orbit uninhabitable. Even this process would be so gradual as to not make a likely impact on any life living there - it would either die off from natural non-stellar-related causes, or it would find a way to leave the star system. Ultimately, stellar evolution takes a long, long time, making planetary processes look fast by comparison.


The star evolution might also render a previously uninhabitable planet inhabitable. Tough luck for those who have had a shorter evolution window?



The article goes on to say that there are maybe a dozen of these in the entire galaxy. These are incredibly rare, then, by definition. Also, they are very easy to detect if they are anywhere nearby.

If it is good enough for you, it is good enough for you. If it is not good enough for the IAU, it will deploy its own telescope on the farthest orbit of the farthest satellite of the farthest system of the farthest star you have.


Eh. Doesn't matter much either way.

Well, again: wrong.

And again, this event was millions of years in the making. Therefore, it wasn't a surprise from any cosmic standpoint. Maybe Earth was surprised, being 50,000 light-years away from it, but anybody even remotely near the thing wouldn't have been terribly surprised at its existence. Also, civilization would be unlikely to rise near such a collapsed star if the intensity of its radiation was so high.

Thus, there are two cases. One, civilization is existing in a stable, protected place, with millions of years before a star can begin to evolve toward a supernova. Two, there is no civilization, because a supernova remnant (neutron star, black hole, etc.) actually causes the area to be uninhabitable - over millions of years.

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Sionis Prioratus
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:36 pm

Krioval wrote:I think that most people can conceive of the intensity of a supernova. I think that most people are going to categorize "stellar explosion" and "fireworks" differently. Yes, it is dramatic. No, I don't think that we need the entire process spelled out in a WA proposal.


I also wish that may be true. But a main concern are pre-industrial societies, or to be more precise, those who have not yet discovered nuclear processes, therefore, they see a star above them. But do not have the minimum sound scientific idea why it shines. No, those people in these societies do not know what is a supernova. When they come to know, it may be too late, if they're alone.

Krioval wrote:The article goes on to say that there are maybe a dozen of these in the entire galaxy. These are incredibly rare, then, by definition. Also, they are very easy to detect if they are anywhere nearby.


Again, only after a civilization has reached a certain technological level. Has every single one reached that level?

Krioval wrote:And again, this event was millions of years in the making. Therefore, it wasn't a surprise from any cosmic standpoint. Maybe Earth was surprised, being 50,000 light-years away from it, but anybody even remotely near the thing wouldn't have been terribly surprised at its existence. Also, civilization would be unlikely to rise near such a collapsed star if the intensity of its radiation was so high.


1) I'm glad the Cosmos wasn't surprised. Low-tech civilizations certainly would.
2) Proof? Anyway, "anybody even remotely near the thing" is DEAD by now.
3) Proof? Radiation does in actuality speed mutation processes. Mutation, as you may know, leads to Evolution. Further, not all life forms are DNA-based, and thus subject to its weaknesses.

Yours,
Last edited by Sionis Prioratus on Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Stash Kroh » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:46 pm

Well hello ambassador, seems you've jumped on the space-faring bandwagon as well.

Just some qualms with the language,

AWARE that an overwhelming majority of World Assembly civilizations are dependant on nearby Star Systems, or are otherwise located inside Galaxies, each containing on average billions of stars,


The red phrase just sounds... awkward.
The blue phrase is questioning "dependant", dependant or living nearby Star Systems? Dependant makes it sounds like they're living off of the hydrogen.


IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.


This is tricky, relocation is a difficult subject. Where do we put them? and what if they don't like it there?

As a Member Nation will most likely not be able to return to their homeland after a supernova explosion, do they retain the right of self-determination enough to pick which location they would like to relocate to?

and how much is the WA willing to spend on relocation, will it buy the property? move the people !? build anything !!?

Also I believe the proposal is currently illegal, as it only establishes a committee.
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Stash Kroh » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:05 pm

News Flash: Atleast one outstanding international citizen had marvelous things to say about this proposal, citing his own "past childhood history with supernova explosions" as troublesome.

The press also released a photo of him making a speech at the General Assembly today...
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Sionis Prioratus
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:33 pm

Stash Kroh wrote:Just some qualms with the language,

AWARE that an overwhelming majority of World Assembly civilizations are dependant on nearby Star Systems, or are otherwise located inside Galaxies, each containing on average billions of stars,


The red phrase just sounds... awkward.
The blue phrase is questioning "dependant", dependant or living nearby Star Systems? Dependant makes it sounds like they're living off of the hydrogen.


I get your point. I can get it fixed.

Stash Kroh wrote:
IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.


This is tricky, relocation is a difficult subject. Where do we put them? and what if they don't like it there?

As a Member Nation will most likely not be able to return to their homeland after a supernova explosion, do they retain the right of self-determination enough to pick which location they would like to relocate to?

and how much is the WA willing to spend on relocation, will it buy the property? move the people !? build anything !!?


Yes, indeed. I did not contemplate some of the aspects raised. If a civilization is stupid enough to choose to stick to their planet to their death (literally), their will be done. Yes, self-determination.

As for "Where do we put them?" I'll assume until I get stones thrown at me that the Universe is BIG, and there's some uninhabited livable planet somewhere.

As for "and what if they don't like it there?" I'll just have to go OOC. (OOC: I really can't believe German Jews cared where they went after they fled certain annihilation)

"and how much is the WA willing to spend on relocation, will it buy the property? move the people !? build anything !!?"

The most metaphysical question. How much is one life worth? Billions of lives?

Stash Kroh wrote:Also I believe the proposal is currently illegal, as it only establishes a committee.


I am at a total loss here. Because it's not like I am

The International Astronomical Union (IAU) is hereby established; it does nothing. It'll exist for its own sake and because there's just too much spare space at the WA Headquarters. Don't ask anything... see that snipers looking at you?


it is

The International Astronomical Union (IAU) is hereby established; its mandate is to:

a) Track stars for accurately and scientifically predicting when stars might be approaching a supernova state, the explosions of which could cause harm to World Assembly citizens;
b) Track other naturally occurring cosmic events, such as comet impacts, which may cause mass extinctions and/or citizens’ deaths in World Assembly member Nations;

To achieve these ends, the IAU shall use star probing artifacts, such as planet or orbit-based telescopes, deploying its own or utilizing the ones already in operation in consortium with the Nations that own them;

The IAU shall issue standards for verifying if such artifacts are suitable for the successful executing of its mandate;

[...]

IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.


This "only a committee" does a freaking lot of things, in my view.
Last edited by Sionis Prioratus on Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stash Kroh
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Stash Kroh » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:42 pm

Sionis wrote:I am at a total loss here. Because it's not like I am


Okay, I was just under the impression that a proposal couldn't base all of its clauses off a committee, even if the committee did a hell of a lot.

As for "and what if they don't like it there?" I'll just have to go OOC. (OOC: I really can't believe German Jews cared where they went after they fled certain annihilation)


But what if we relocated them in a swamp, told them it as for their own good, and refused to give them welfare unless they stayed in their relocation area (the swamps).
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Sionis Prioratus
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:58 pm

Stash Kroh wrote:Dependant makes it sounds like they're living off of the hydrogen.


You're violating the CoCR, what do you have against helium?

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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Mad hatters in jeans » Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:58 pm

no i don't think so. watching supernova's is for star-gazers.
If a nearby planet had a human population how would you propose to evacuate that planet where would the people go?
far better to let them decide their own fate, let their free will bring them from the impending doom

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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Krioval » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:17 pm

OOC: Let's try an IC response, then.

Sionis Prioratus wrote:1) I'm glad the Cosmos wasn't surprised. Low-tech civilizations certainly would.
2) Proof? Anyway, "anybody even remotely near the thing" is DEAD by now.
3) Proof? Radiation does in actuality speed mutation processes. Mutation, as you may know, leads to Evolution. Further, not all life forms are DNA-based, and thus subject to its weaknesses.


IC:

Your Excellency seems to be relying on a wild set of assumptions about a rare event in order to make WA policy. Low-tech civilizations and high-tech civilizations alike are not going to develop in the orbits of any star that will soon become a supernova. This is because the process to form a supernova takes millions of years. If a civilization does develop around a star that may (may!) one day explode, they will have plenty of time to develop before the planet becomes uninhabitable. More likely is that they will be destroyed from war, famine, disease, or colossal acts of stupidity.

So let's then consider civilizations endangered by nearby stars. As the article Your Excellency has shown to the Assembly shows, supernova remnants that pose a secondary danger outside of the original system is an incredibly rare event - perhaps twelve per galaxy. Further, the limit of their danger extends perhaps a few light years away (maybe - some of these collapsed stars may never flare up). Thus, the Great Chiefdom is being called upon to analyze the impact of a proposal that *may* affect a potential civilization living near a collapsed star - a dual rarity. Krioval is not insisting that these civilizations, should they be determined to exist, should be abandoned to their fate. Instead, we are arguing that this is a matter that will not affect nearly all of the members of the WA, and in fact is beyond the capacity of nearly all of the WA members to implement.

Moreover, a supernova doesn't "just happen". There is buildup - again, to the tune of millions of years. Trust me, Your Excellency, the Great Chiefdom has monitored many, many stars, and we have contacts among nations whose borders are even greater than ours who would gladly point out to Your Excellency which stars are where in their stellar evolution. To then raise such an impassioned alarm is irresponsible - we who can are already doing something, and those who are just beginning to explore space (or have yet to begin) need not concern themselves with a "supernova scan".

Finally, the Great Chiefdom is amused by the idea that we should be concerned with mutations from radiation emanating from supernovae. Is Your Excellency aware of the incredible level of ultraviolet radiation from Earth's sun? It is sufficient to, unshielded, kill a human. There are plenty of other sources of radiation in the universe that are far more deadly and prevalent than that cast off from supernovae and supernova remnants. Also, the Great Chiefdom is unaware of any non-nucleic acid forms of life.

Frankly, we find this proposal to be unworthy of the time of the Great Assembly, though we do note the enthusiasm and good intentions of its author. The Great Chiefdom hopes that such energies may be redirected to more constructive ends.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

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Sionis Prioratus
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:23 pm

Krioval wrote:OOC: Let's try an IC response, then.


OOC: All my responses have been IC; when I go OOC, I'll first indicate it (as I have already done in this very thread) in some speech such as (IC'ly speaking) "Well, to answer that I'll go OOC"

IC: That said, I'll address Your Honor's substantive and not-so-substantive points ASAP.

Yours truly,
Last edited by Sionis Prioratus on Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Buffett and Colbert » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:28 pm

Sionis Prioratus wrote:
Krioval wrote:OOC: Let's try an IC response, then.


OOC: All my responses have been IC; when I go OOC, I'll first indicate it (as I have already done in this very thread) in some speech such as (IC'ly speaking) "Well, to answer that I'll go OOC"

IC: That said, I'll address Your Honor's substantive and not-so-substantive points ASAP.

Yours truly,


OOC: Ah, but if you were speaking OOCly, you wouldn't have said "That said," ICly. HA! :p
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:41 pm

And much is relocating an entire planet's population, on a regular basis mind you, going to cost, exactly? Surely much more than what was tabulated for the Veterans' Reform Act.

[float=left]Dr. Bradford William Castro

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the Commonwealth of Glen-Rhodes
[/float][float=right]Image[/float]

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Sionis Prioratus
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:57 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:And much is relocating an entire planet's population, on a regular basis mind you, going to cost, exactly? Surely much more than what was tabulated for the Veterans' Reform Act.


Hon. Delegate, that's exactly why the resolution IMPLORES, not "mandates", not even "encourages". The tools for probing and alerting are a mandatory spending, the eventual relocation, it is not mandatory.

Further, as the Hon. Ambassador from Krioval points out, a relocation would be a extraordinarily rare (albeit life-saving) procedure. (He wants to make it sound irrelevant, which it is not) Nevertheless, it is not mandatory. It relies on the compassion of the nations capable and able and willing to do it.

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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:11 pm

Sionis Prioratus wrote:Hon. Delegate, that's exactly why the resolution IMPLORES, not "mandates", not even "encourages". The tools for probing and alerting are a mandatory spending, the eventual relocation, it is not mandatory.

This relocating is being funded by the World Assembly General Fund, which Glen-Rhodes 'donates' to. (And I find it hard to believe that in the vast expanses of space, that supernovae near World Assembly nations happens too infrequently to be of any consequence.) While Glen-Rhodes would not be mandated to help relocate (not that we are even capable of doing so; we leave space be), we most certainly are mandated to help pay for it, which is why I ask how much it is going to cost.

[float=left]Dr. Bradford William Castro

Ambassador-at-Large,
Permanent Chief of Mission for World Assembly affairs,
the Commonwealth of Glen-Rhodes
[/float][float=right]Image[/float]

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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:17 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Sionis Prioratus wrote:Hon. Delegate, that's exactly why the resolution IMPLORES, not "mandates", not even "encourages". The tools for probing and alerting are a mandatory spending, the eventual relocation, it is not mandatory.

This relocating is being funded by the World Assembly General Fund, which Glen-Rhodes 'donates' to. (And I find it hard to believe that in the vast expanses of space, that supernovae near World Assembly nations happens too infrequently to be of any consequence.) While Glen-Rhodes would not be mandated to help relocate (not that we are even capable of doing so; we leave space be), we most certainly are mandated to help pay for it, which is why I ask how much it is going to cost.


I see Your Honor's point, and see reason in it. That said, would it please your Delegation language that leaves the WAGF especifically out of relocation procedures?

Also, additionally I think some kind of "For Greater Clarity" clause is merited.

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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:29 pm

Sionis Prioratus wrote:I see Your Honor's point, and see reason in it. That said, would it please your Delegation language that leaves the WAGF especifically out of relocation procedures?

Yes.

[float=left]Dr. Bradford William Castro

Ambassador-at-Large,
Permanent Chief of Mission for World Assembly affairs,
the Commonwealth of Glen-Rhodes
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Re: DRAFT: Protection from Supernovae Explosions

Postby Krioval » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:26 pm

Is there any reason why this proposal is not simply creating a series of international observatories to search for cosmic events that might cause disruptions? In that case, why would it be "International Security: Strong"?

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

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