by Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:31 pm
by Linux and the X » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:39 pm
by Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:50 pm
Linux and the X wrote:Unless this proposal finds a way to travel faster than light, it would not be possible to be aware of a supernova in time to do anything about it.
by Charlotte Ryberg » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:06 pm
by Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:47 pm
Charlotte Ryberg wrote:Honoured ambassador, quite recently Charlotte Ryberg has expanded into the Future Tech, covering what is known as the M25 Constellation. In the wake of the establishment of the galaxy map, it would be a great idea for a resolution that urges space-capable member states to help the evacuation of civilians living in the shadow of unstable stars.
by Charlotte Ryberg » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:05 pm
by Krioval » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:26 pm
Sionis Prioratus wrote:[International Security / Strong]
THE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD ASSEMBLED,
AWARE that an overwhelming majority of World Assembly civilizations are dependant on nearby Star Systems, or are otherwise located inside Galaxies, each containing on average billions of stars,
ALSO AWARE that stars undergo a life cycle, that often results at its end in a cataclysmic explosion called a Supernova,
DEFINING, for the purposes of this Resolution, supernovae as exploding stars which are extremely luminous and cause a burst of radiation that often briefly outshines an entire galaxy, before fading from view over several weeks or months. During this short interval, a supernova can radiate as much energy as a regular carbon-based life sustaining star could emit over its entire life span. The explosion expels much or all of a star's material at a velocity of up to a tenth the speed of light, driving a shock wave into the surrounding interstellar medium.
EXTREMELY CONCERNED the occurrence such an event, if unexpected, can completely annihilate several biospheres of innumerable nearby Star Systems, causing the deaths of up to hundreds of billions of persons, not to mention the irretrievable loss of innumerable entire civilizations,
Therefore, it is resolved:
The International Astronomical Union (IAU) is hereby established; its mandate is to:
a) Track stars for accurately and scientifically predicting when stars might be approaching a supernova state, the explosions of which could cause harm to World Assembly citizens;
b) Track other naturally occurring cosmic events, such as comet impacts, which may cause mass extinctions and/or citizens’ deaths in World Assembly member Nations;
To achieve these ends, the IAU shall use star probing artifacts, such as planet or orbit-based telescopes, deploying its own or utilizing the ones already in operation in consortium with the Nations that own them;
The IAU shall issue standards for verifying if such artifacts are suitable for the successful executing of its mandate;
Star system based civilizations which do not have any such artifacts shall have the option of having them installed on the surface of its planets and/or its satellites, or placed in its orbits;
The resources for IAU's operation shall come from the World Assembly and private donations;
IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.
by Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:04 pm
Krioval wrote:OOC: I'm not opposed to an international consortium of observatories, but this proposal is deficient in stellar physics. If there is somebody who has an advanced degree in astrophysics, I would ask for their help in correcting this.Sionis Prioratus wrote:[International Security / Strong]
THE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD ASSEMBLED,
AWARE that an overwhelming majority of World Assembly civilizations are dependant on nearby Star Systems, or are otherwise located inside Galaxies, each containing on average billions of stars,
ALSO AWARE that stars undergo a life cycle, that often results at its end in a cataclysmic explosion called a Supernova,
Most stars do not undergo supernovae at the end of their lifespan. Only those stars of mass nine times or greater than that of Earth's sun are even capable of such a catastrophic explosion, and those are relatively rare.DEFINING, for the purposes of this Resolution, supernovae as exploding stars which are extremely luminous and cause a burst of radiation that often briefly outshines an entire galaxy, before fading from view over several weeks or months. During this short interval, a supernova can radiate as much energy as a regular carbon-based life sustaining star could emit over its entire life span. The explosion expels much or all of a star's material at a velocity of up to a tenth the speed of light, driving a shock wave into the surrounding interstellar medium.
If by "outshine an entire galaxy", one means "has a higher 'light density' than its host galaxy", then technically this is true. It is not always the case, and "often" may be too strong a word. Perhaps it "sometimes" or "occasionally" exhibits this property, but that does not have to be part of the definition. Best is simplicity: a supernova is an exploding star.
Krioval wrote:A supernova cannot be "unexpected". It takes anywhere from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of years for a star to become a supernova. A long time prior to that, the star would already have rendered any planets in its orbit uninhabitable. Even this process would be so gradual as to not make a likely impact on any life living there - it would either die off from natural non-stellar-related causes, or it would find a way to leave the star system. Ultimately, stellar evolution takes a long, long time, making planetary processes look fast by comparison.
Krioval wrote:A supernova would have no effect on neighboring star systems. The distance for the radiation to travel is simply too great. For an example, Earth's sun is four light-years from Alpha Centauri. If that star were to explode, the intensity of any radiation would decay proportional to the square of the distance traveled. That's not mentioning dampening from the heliosphere of the neighboring star (solar wind plus magnetosphere) and planetary atmospheres and magnetospheres (of planets orbiting the neighboring star).
Krioval wrote:Therefore, it is resolved:
The International Astronomical Union (IAU) is hereby established; its mandate is to:
a) Track stars for accurately and scientifically predicting when stars might be approaching a supernova state, the explosions of which could cause harm to World Assembly citizens;
No, for reasons mentioned above.
Krioval wrote:b) Track other naturally occurring cosmic events, such as comet impacts, which may cause mass extinctions and/or citizens’ deaths in World Assembly member Nations;
Better.
Krioval wrote:To achieve these ends, the IAU shall use star probing artifacts, such as planet or orbit-based telescopes, deploying its own or utilizing the ones already in operation in consortium with the Nations that own them;
The IAU shall issue standards for verifying if such artifacts are suitable for the successful executing of its mandate;
Now we're going to have an international organization to tell me whether my telescope is good enough?
Krioval wrote:Star system based civilizations which do not have any such artifacts shall have the option of having them installed on the surface of its planets and/or its satellites, or placed in its orbits;
Why shouldn't deep space civilizations be included in this?
Krioval wrote:The resources for IAU's operation shall come from the World Assembly and private donations;
IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.
Give me a quarter million years and I'll be right over.
Maybe you could write a proposal to foster international cooperation in space observation. As it stands, though, supernovae are not going to surprise anybody. They just don't work that way.
by Krioval » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:18 pm
Sionis Prioratus wrote:If the deficiency spotted in this segment is the word "often", it can be corrected.
As for "best is simplicity": I have to disagree. Perception of the magnitude of the processes involved is paramount. The everyday concept of the word "explosion" is something like fireworks. There's a remarkable and tangible difference in perception between "[enhanced] fireworks" and a "explosion [which] expels much or all of a star's material at a velocity of up to a tenth the speed of light, driving a shock wave into the surrounding interstellar medium". It may seem needless drama. Dramatic it is, but the most important is that it is a fact.
Krioval wrote:A supernova cannot be "unexpected". It takes anywhere from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of years for a star to become a supernova. A long time prior to that, the star would already have rendered any planets in its orbit uninhabitable. Even this process would be so gradual as to not make a likely impact on any life living there - it would either die off from natural non-stellar-related causes, or it would find a way to leave the star system. Ultimately, stellar evolution takes a long, long time, making planetary processes look fast by comparison.
If it is good enough for you, it is good enough for you. If it is not good enough for the IAU, it will deploy its own telescope on the farthest orbit of the farthest satellite of the farthest system of the farthest star you have.
by Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:36 pm
Krioval wrote:I think that most people can conceive of the intensity of a supernova. I think that most people are going to categorize "stellar explosion" and "fireworks" differently. Yes, it is dramatic. No, I don't think that we need the entire process spelled out in a WA proposal.
Krioval wrote:The article goes on to say that there are maybe a dozen of these in the entire galaxy. These are incredibly rare, then, by definition. Also, they are very easy to detect if they are anywhere nearby.
Krioval wrote:And again, this event was millions of years in the making. Therefore, it wasn't a surprise from any cosmic standpoint. Maybe Earth was surprised, being 50,000 light-years away from it, but anybody even remotely near the thing wouldn't have been terribly surprised at its existence. Also, civilization would be unlikely to rise near such a collapsed star if the intensity of its radiation was so high.
by Stash Kroh » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:46 pm
AWARE that an overwhelming majority of World Assembly civilizations are dependant on nearby Star Systems, or are otherwise located inside Galaxies, each containing on average billions of stars,
IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.
by Stash Kroh » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:05 pm
by Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:33 pm
Stash Kroh wrote:Just some qualms with the language,AWARE that an overwhelming majority of World Assembly civilizations are dependant on nearby Star Systems, or are otherwise located inside Galaxies, each containing on average billions of stars,
The red phrase just sounds... awkward.
The blue phrase is questioning "dependant", dependant or living nearby Star Systems? Dependant makes it sounds like they're living off of the hydrogen.
Stash Kroh wrote:IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.
This is tricky, relocation is a difficult subject. Where do we put them? and what if they don't like it there?
As a Member Nation will most likely not be able to return to their homeland after a supernova explosion, do they retain the right of self-determination enough to pick which location they would like to relocate to?
and how much is the WA willing to spend on relocation, will it buy the property? move the people !? build anything !!?
Stash Kroh wrote:Also I believe the proposal is currently illegal, as it only establishes a committee.
The International Astronomical Union (IAU) is hereby established; it does nothing. It'll exist for its own sake and because there's just too much spare space at the WA Headquarters. Don't ask anything... see that snipers looking at you?
The International Astronomical Union (IAU) is hereby established; its mandate is to:
a) Track stars for accurately and scientifically predicting when stars might be approaching a supernova state, the explosions of which could cause harm to World Assembly citizens;
b) Track other naturally occurring cosmic events, such as comet impacts, which may cause mass extinctions and/or citizens’ deaths in World Assembly member Nations;
To achieve these ends, the IAU shall use star probing artifacts, such as planet or orbit-based telescopes, deploying its own or utilizing the ones already in operation in consortium with the Nations that own them;
The IAU shall issue standards for verifying if such artifacts are suitable for the successful executing of its mandate;
[...]
IMPLORES that, when as soon as sufficient evidence that a supernova event shall occur is available, space capable nations, with the help from the IAU, utilize all necessary resources to help relocate potentially endangered World Assembly civilizations to a safe location in its Galaxy, or even a nearby Galaxy, should the situation be so dire.
by Stash Kroh » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:42 pm
Sionis wrote:I am at a total loss here. Because it's not like I am
As for "and what if they don't like it there?" I'll just have to go OOC. (OOC: I really can't believe German Jews cared where they went after they fled certain annihilation)
by Sionis Prioratus » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:58 pm
Stash Kroh wrote:Dependant makes it sounds like they're living off of the hydrogen.
by Mad hatters in jeans » Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:58 pm
by Krioval » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:17 pm
Sionis Prioratus wrote:1) I'm glad the Cosmos wasn't surprised. Low-tech civilizations certainly would.
2) Proof? Anyway, "anybody even remotely near the thing" is DEAD by now.
3) Proof? Radiation does in actuality speed mutation processes. Mutation, as you may know, leads to Evolution. Further, not all life forms are DNA-based, and thus subject to its weaknesses.
by Sionis Prioratus » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:23 pm
Krioval wrote:OOC: Let's try an IC response, then.
by Buffett and Colbert » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:28 pm
Sionis Prioratus wrote:Krioval wrote:OOC: Let's try an IC response, then.
OOC: All my responses have been IC; when I go OOC, I'll first indicate it (as I have already done in this very thread) in some speech such as (IC'ly speaking) "Well, to answer that I'll go OOC"
IC: That said, I'll address Your Honor's substantive and not-so-substantive points ASAP.
Yours truly,
You-Gi-Owe wrote:If someone were to ask me about your online persona as a standard of your "date-ability", I'd rate you as "worth investigating further & passionate about beliefs". But, enough of the idle speculation on why you didn't score with the opposite gender.
by Glen-Rhodes » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:41 pm
by Sionis Prioratus » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:57 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:And much is relocating an entire planet's population, on a regular basis mind you, going to cost, exactly? Surely much more than what was tabulated for the Veterans' Reform Act.
by Glen-Rhodes » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:11 pm
Sionis Prioratus wrote:Hon. Delegate, that's exactly why the resolution IMPLORES, not "mandates", not even "encourages". The tools for probing and alerting are a mandatory spending, the eventual relocation, it is not mandatory.
by Sionis Prioratus » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:17 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Sionis Prioratus wrote:Hon. Delegate, that's exactly why the resolution IMPLORES, not "mandates", not even "encourages". The tools for probing and alerting are a mandatory spending, the eventual relocation, it is not mandatory.
This relocating is being funded by the World Assembly General Fund, which Glen-Rhodes 'donates' to. (And I find it hard to believe that in the vast expanses of space, that supernovae near World Assembly nations happens too infrequently to be of any consequence.) While Glen-Rhodes would not be mandated to help relocate (not that we are even capable of doing so; we leave space be), we most certainly are mandated to help pay for it, which is why I ask how much it is going to cost.
by Glen-Rhodes » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:29 pm
Sionis Prioratus wrote:I see Your Honor's point, and see reason in it. That said, would it please your Delegation language that leaves the WAGF especifically out of relocation procedures?
by Krioval » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:26 pm
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
Advertisement