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World Cup 93 Bid — Chromatika/Tumbra

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Tumbra
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World Cup 93 Bid — Chromatika/Tumbra

Postby Tumbra » Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:41 am

Image

The
.Chromatik Football Federation.
and
Tumbran Football Federation
are proud to present a joint bid for the hosting rights of World Cup 93.


Introduction

What & Where (or: Background)
The nation of Chromatika, located in northern Anaia, is a burgeoning nation of about 20 million people. Coming out of a brutal dictatorship led by the Chromatik Party, the still newly-free country is steadily growing and adapting to democracy, with a first peaceful transition of power from one party to another having happened less than a decade ago. In terms of hosting experience, the user behind Chromatika has hosted the 88th edition of the World Cup with Cassadaigua. They have also hosted a bevy of other competitions in football, including the 46th edition of the Baptism of Fire as Yesopalitha, while also successfully hosting the 73rd edition of said tournament as Chromatika, the 52nd Cup of Harmony, and the 12th Under-18 World Cup, to name but a few highlights. Outside of football, the user has also hosted six major tournaments from other sports, including baseball, gridiron/American football, basketball and ice hockey, giving them a wealth of experience on the forums.

The nation of Tumbra, located in central Esportiva, is one of the biggest powers in that region. Long-held traditions of democracy, justice and liberty guide the Republic, though the nation’s actions in land north to it have generated a fair bit of controversy as the country attempts to stave off accusations of colonialism. The user behind Tumbra has hosted the 77th Baptism of Fire with Graentfjall and the 83rd Cup of Harmony with Mertagne, while also having hosted an Under-18 World Cup. Outside of football, the user is also known for being a readily-available third-party scorinator for multiple tournaments.

The two of us have worked together and collaborated on multiple events in NSS before, be it third-party scorinations or RP lines.

Format

Who (or: Numbers)
Similarly to the previous edition of the World Cup, our preference will be for fifteen groups of nations. The fifteen group winners will proceed directly to the World Cup, while the second and third-placed nations will go up against each other in playoffs, with second-placed nations being seeded and teams flipped as necessary to prevent group stage rematches. In these playoffs, the away goals rule will not apply. We would ideally like to limit signups to 150 + 2, in order to prevent byes, but we recognise that this might not be possible, seeing as we already have about 140 signups by this time already. To the best of our ability, we will attempt to keep to fifteen groups, unless this situation becomes unworkable. [EDITED IN RESPONSE TO QUESTION FROM POAFMERSIA] We will, however, be hosting two-legged playoffs no matter what happens.

Neither of Tumbra nor Chromatika’s users will be entering puppets.

When (or: Schedule)
We aim to begin scorination by the end of January. As has become established in previous World Cup cycles, we will stick to a 2 match scorination every forty-eight hours. Should we be able to, we will look into scorinating the first and final matchdays separately. Should we win hosting rights, Tumbra will take the front half of qualifiers, while Chromatika will host the back half.

For playoffs, Tumbra will similarly host the first leg of playoffs, while Chromatika will scorinate the second leg,

How (or: Formula and RP bonus)
We believe that the recent somewhat-compromise that has been brought up when it comes to scorinating formulae, in which SQIS is used for qualifiers (due to its working home-advantage system), while NSFS is used for the finals (due to its ability to better handle differences between highly-ranked teams, and the lack of need for home advantage), is a good one. We will be adopting this.

RP bonus carryover will consist of up to two days’ RP bonus — the single highest RP bonus attained during qualifying added to the average of RP bonus attained across the span of qualifying. Should your best RP score 1.7, and your average across the entirety of qualifying be 1.2, your carryover bonus would be 2.5 out of a maximum of 4. This in no way means that the final tournament will be using an RP bonus scale of 2 per cutoff, however.

Style modifiers from +5 to -5 will be allowed, with no restriction on style modifiers apart from that. We will entertain one change of style modifier per team throughout the duration of the World Cup, so long as the hosts are duly notified beforehand in a manner that is not RP (ie. through telegram or Discord message)

There has been, over the past twenty years or so, a conversation that comes up on the level of RP bonus. Players can rest assured that RP bonus will be generous, and cumulative, enough so that low-ranked nations should be able to compete with a nation in the upper echelons of the ranks by the end of qualifiers through consistent, good-quality writing, Margaret willing. It is also important to note that quality is not equivalent to quantity, et cetera, and that a good, short RP is more likely to score higher than a yawningly long and boring RP. In general, the principles outlined by Graentfjall in their team’s World Cup bid should be looked towards.

There will indeed be a roster bonus — up to two matchdays’ worth — should we be elected as hosts. On the other hand, there will also be a penalty for not rostering — 50% of the offending nation’s rank for the first cutoff, increasing by 10%, down to a minimum of zero, until they post a roster.

Please note — and we will be strictly enforcing this — that we will be coming down extremely hard on plagiarism and RPs that are suspected to have been written by an AI, without proper credit attribution. Penalties for the above two will be met with a possible reduction in, or reset of, RP bonus.

When it comes to tiebreakers, we will use the following, in decreasing order:
  • Points
  • Goal difference
  • Head-to-head points
  • Head-to-head goal difference
  • IC coinflip — an additional match is scorinated, in a neutral venue, utilising only RP bonus, with ties turned off.
Should three-way ties appear, we will go down the list until one team is eliminated, then restart from the top.

Why… (or: Questions)
Questions on any part of the bid are welcomed.

TL;DR
What and Where? Chromatika and Tumbra are bidding for the hosting rights of World Cup 93.
Who? By and large, fifteen groups, and two-legged playoffs. No away goals rule. Second and third-placed participants will partake in playoffs. Fifteen group winners + Fifteen playoff winners + Two hosts = Thirty-two finalists.
When? By the end of January. Cutoffs will take place every 48 hours, for two matches. We will look towards scorinating the first and last match days separately from each other. Tumbra will scorinate the first half; Chromatika will scorinate the latter. This also applies for play-offs.
How? SQIS in qualifiers, NSFS in finals. Style mods from +5 to -5. RP bonus will be generous and cumulative. Quality over quantity. Roster bonus of 2 matchdays’ worth. Non-rostering penalty goes from 50% of rank from first cutoff, increasing by 10% for each subsequent cutoff. RP bonus carryover will be applied, with up to two matchdays’ worth being carried over. Plagiarism and AI-writing without proper credit will be heavily punished. Tiebreakers go Points > GD > H2H Pts > H2H GD > IC coinflip > OOC coinflip.
Last edited by Tumbra on Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF TUMBRA
Tumbra - a sprawling, modern federal democratic republic located in Esportiva. Strong economy, strong civil rights, strong freedoms.
Population: 121 million | TLA: TMB | Capital City: Straton | Largest City: Couno
Constitution | Domestic Database | Domestic Football | Domestic Motorsports | Wiki Article
President: Edward Merryweather (United) | Prime Minister: Bertram Andrews (Labour)
U-18 World Cup 13, 21 Champions/Di Bradini Cup 51, 57 Champions

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Chromatika
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Postby Chromatika » Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:42 am

Co-bidder reporting in.
Last edited by Chromatika on Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Independent Athletes from Quebec
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Postby Independent Athletes from Quebec » Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:13 pm

I like this bid a lot, and it checks off the boxes necessary for a good bid.

Both Chromatika and Tumbra are extremely experienced and have shown their hosting integrities over the years, and the build-up to the tournament certainly suggests something good - e.g. Chrom has already hosted WC88 to great success, Tumbra has a great trail of tournament hosting for a few cycles up to now.

Now let's start the Q&As. Please do not consider them as doubting the cohosts, but rather the opposite:

  • This question I ask often to the hosts: What would be rough scorination windows for both Tumbra and Chromatika?
  • I know this may be contingent upon how the BoF voting process goes, but may as well ask it here since Mertagne has explicitly stated his openness to coordinate things with any WC-team-designate. How many days do we expect between the end of BoF and the WCQ MD1? Do we expect the roster/RP thread to be up well before the end of BoF, or around advanced stages of the BoF (after BoF)?
  • This may concern some but not all those participating in the WC. Chromatika is currently in the process of bidding for both the WBC-56 and the WC93. Will the WBC scorinations happen on the off-days (day between WC cutoffs) or on the same day as the WC?
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Postby Tumbra » Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:43 pm

Independent Athletes from Quebec wrote:I like this bid a lot, and it checks off the boxes necessary for a good bid.


Thank you for your questions.

Independent Athletes from Quebec wrote:What would be rough scorination windows for both Tumbra and Chromatika?


Tumbra, who will be taking the first half, will be seeking to cut off between 10pm and 12mn Singapore time (6am-8am Pacific time, 2pm-4pm UTC).
Chromatika, who will be taking the second half, will be seeking to cut off between 9pm and 11pm Pacific time (1pm-3pm Singapore time, 5am-7am UTC).

We recognise that there is a jarring difference between these two; therefore, we will be giving an extra thirty-six hours during the transition from my half to Chrom's half. All necessary efforts to guide users with regards to time will be put in place.

Independent Athletes from Quebec wrote:How many days do we expect between the end of BoF and the WCQ MD1?


We intend for the World Cup roster thread to appear when the Baptism of Fire hits the playoffs, and for the World Cup RP thread on the conclusion of the Baptism of Fire. The first matchday will occur approximately a week from then.

Independent Athletes from Quebec wrote:Will the WBC scorinations happen on the off-days (day between WC cutoffs) or on the same day as the WC?


WBC group stage cutoffs should hopefully be entirely done by the time Chromatika's half of the World Cup comes across. Chromatika will ensure that WC cutoffs will fall on alternate days with the WBC.




We also received a question about AI writings on the Discord. To sum up our answer, here is a list of general guidelines that we will use.

1. We will publicise such incidents, but keep the names of those involved anonymous, after the resolution of the incident. We will also urge users with concerns to message either of the hosts directly, rather than whistle-blow out in the open.
2. For plagiarism, we will unfortunately have to rely on tip-offs or our own sense of recognition, since we'll be snowed in under a deluge of RPs.
3. For AI, what we're mainly looking out for is a RP wholly copy-pasted from AI writing software like GPT-3, which should be fairly easy to spot. RPs edited after being spat out by an AI will be more difficult to spot, but are more likely to fall under transformative work.

To give a few examples:

Using images generated by an AI drawing engine, without attribution: X
Using images generated by an AI drawing engine, with attribution:
Copy-pasting an RP spat out by an AI chat engine: X
Editing an RP spat out by an AI chat engine: Grey area. Please avoid this, though we also recognise this is the grey area for which debates will be had. We are more likely than not to give these kinds of RPs a pass, since they have been transformed to some extent by the co-author of the RP.
Writing a wholly original RP off a prompt generated by a hypothetical AI:

4. For AI-generated works in particular, we will only take action when both of us agree that there is something fishy going on.
Last edited by Tumbra on Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF TUMBRA
Tumbra - a sprawling, modern federal democratic republic located in Esportiva. Strong economy, strong civil rights, strong freedoms.
Population: 121 million | TLA: TMB | Capital City: Straton | Largest City: Couno
Constitution | Domestic Database | Domestic Football | Domestic Motorsports | Wiki Article
President: Edward Merryweather (United) | Prime Minister: Bertram Andrews (Labour)
U-18 World Cup 13, 21 Champions/Di Bradini Cup 51, 57 Champions

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:19 pm

I am Saint Eleanor.

How will qualification work if numbers do not permit fifteen even groups (i.e. if 160 teams sign up)?

Will playoffs feature extra time? (And keep in mind Omerica/Saltstead has historically been very critical of playoffs with ET but no AG.)
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Postby Chromatika » Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:00 pm

Tinhampton wrote:How will qualification work if numbers do not permit fifteen even groups (i.e. if 160 teams sign up)?
As we have exceeded 150 signups, the original format of 15x10 is no longer possible, especially as we'll likely see some more signups while the vote is going on. The plan is then to wait for 165 signups and have 15 groups of 11. If that is not possible, we will resort to 160 teams (20x8). (The reason why 15x11 is preferable to 20x8 is because the 15x11 format allows fifteen more nations to enter the playoffs than the 20x8 variety, which would only send second placed teams to playoffs, even though it comes at the cost of having four more matchdays.)

Tinhampton wrote:Will playoffs feature extra time? (And keep in mind Omerica/Saltstead has historically been very critical of playoffs with ET but no AG.)
We direct you to this link, with omission of the bit about away goals. It has been used by successful bids in the past, and we see no reason to detract from it.
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Postby PotatoFarmers » Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:09 am

Bid wrote:Should we be able to, we will look into scorinating the first and final matchdays separately.

EDIT: If there are byes in the fixture list, will the first & final matchday be scored individually?

Chromatika wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:How will qualification work if numbers do not permit fifteen even groups (i.e. if 160 teams sign up)?
As we have exceeded 150 signups, the original format of 15x10 is no longer possible, especially as we'll likely see some more signups while the vote is going on. The plan is then to wait for 165 signups and have 15 groups of 11. If that is not possible, we will resort to 160 teams (20x8). (The reason why 15x11 is preferable to 20x8 is because the 15x11 format allows fifteen more nations to enter the playoffs than the 20x8 variety, which would only send second placed teams to playoffs, even though it comes at the cost of having four more matchdays.)

I note that the bid says:
Bid wrote:To the best of our ability, we will attempt to avoid bye days, and may tweak group sizes or numbers to fit this

As such, I remain rather confused on the intention: does the hosts prefer even-sized groups, or 15 groups? For instance, if we have 198 team signed up to fight for qualification (ie. 200 teams including the hosts), will the hosts request for 2 number puppets to hit 20 groups of 10, or will they cut 3 puppets to hit 15 groups of 13.

EDIT:
More questions, same as what I asked each bidder:
  1. What is the bid's policy on giving away information to CoH bidders with regards to RP bonuses? What kind of information will be given to them?
  2. What if I changed the question above to talking about individuals wanting to know more about how their RP fared?
  3. What if I changed the question above to talking about public requests about statistics with regards to the RPs in the qualifiers?
Last edited by PotatoFarmers on Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Tumbra » Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:51 am

Thank you for your questions.

PotatoFarmers wrote:If there are byes in the fixture list, will the first & final matchday be scored individually?


If there are bye days, we will score all matches in a 2/48 format, rather than leaving the first and final matchday to be individually scored.

PotatoFarmers wrote:As such, I remain rather confused on the intention: does the hosts prefer even-sized groups, or 15 groups?


Apologies for the confusion. Our bid will preference fifteen groups to the best of our ability, as we believe that giving more nations the chance of reaching the playoffs and/or qualifying (45++) is worth the extra few cutoffs.

PotatoFarmers wrote:What is the bid's policy on giving away information to CoH bidders with regards to RP bonuses? What kind of information will be given to them?


Should the CoH hosts wish, we will collaborate to the fullest extent with them. A list of nation names will be provided, in decreasing order of RP bonus, but with no numbers provided.

PotatoFarmers wrote:What if I changed the question above to talking about individuals wanting to know more about how their RP fared?


We are welcome to individuals approaching us privately for feedback on their roleplays.

PotatoFarmers wrote:What if I changed the question above to talking about public requests about statistics with regards to the RPs in the qualifiers?


We are open to providing public statistics on RP bonus during the qualifiers. You may refer to this post during the Cup of Harmony for the type of statistics that should be posted.
THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF TUMBRA
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Postby The Licentian Isles » Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:32 am

Tumbra wrote:
PotatoFarmers wrote:What if I changed the question above to talking about public requests about statistics with regards to the RPs in the qualifiers?


We are open to providing public statistics on RP bonus during the qualifiers. You may refer to this post during the Cup of Harmony for the type of statistics that should be posted.


I will say, as well as just generally supporting this bid because I trust the users involved to deliver a fantastic tournament, this is a great addition that I support.

To add a question, why the choice to have an OOC coinflip, as well as the more traditional IC one? Surely just disallowing ties would suffice to avoid an actual physical coin flip.
Last edited by The Licentian Isles on Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tumbra
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Postby Tumbra » Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:44 am

The Licentian Isles wrote:To add a question, why the choice to have an OOC coinflip, as well as the more traditional IC one? Surely just disallowing ties would suffice to avoid an actual physical coin flip.


This is on me; I typically have it as a final-final tiebreaker. The IC coinflip will have ties turned off, for the avoidance of doubt.

EDIT: I've removed OOC coinflip from the bid.
Last edited by Tumbra on Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF TUMBRA
Tumbra - a sprawling, modern federal democratic republic located in Esportiva. Strong economy, strong civil rights, strong freedoms.
Population: 121 million | TLA: TMB | Capital City: Straton | Largest City: Couno
Constitution | Domestic Database | Domestic Football | Domestic Motorsports | Wiki Article
President: Edward Merryweather (United) | Prime Minister: Bertram Andrews (Labour)
U-18 World Cup 13, 21 Champions/Di Bradini Cup 51, 57 Champions

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Tumbra
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Postby Tumbra » Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:43 am

By our count, barring for CTEs and undeclared multiple puppets, we currently have 169 nations signed up for the World Cup. This means, that in order to keep to our plan of 15 groups, we will be cutting off at 180 signups, maximum. We are thus confirming that all matchdays will be scorinated doubly should we cut nations to get to either 165 (to avoid final-day byes) or keep them open until 180 (to remove two cutoffs and ensuring eleven qualifying cutoffs).
THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF TUMBRA
Tumbra - a sprawling, modern federal democratic republic located in Esportiva. Strong economy, strong civil rights, strong freedoms.
Population: 121 million | TLA: TMB | Capital City: Straton | Largest City: Couno
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Postby Ko-oren » Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:47 am

Seeing as we currently exceed 180 signups (not accounting for CTEs), what's your policy for cutting teams (puppets? Last in, first out?)

What happens if we should get another, say, 10 signups before the cutoff point, at which point we'd be very close to another multiple of 15?

Note that signups for WC92 were up for about 6 weeks before reaching 180 and we're on 181 just 2.5 weeks in.
Last edited by Ko-oren on Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PotatoFarmers » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:32 am

I should also add to Ko's question above and ask - how do you foresee the entire pre-WCQ process to be like? Like when do you cutoff, when do you open the threads, when do you do the draw and when do you start the first scorination?
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Postby Tumbra » Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:54 am

Thank you for your questions.

Ko-oren wrote:Seeing as we currently exceed 180 signups (not accounting for CTEs), what's your policy for cutting teams (puppets? Last in, first out?)

What happens if we should get another, say, 10 signups before the cutoff point, at which point we'd be very close to another multiple of 15?


Our policy when it comes to cutting nations will be to begin with cutting puppets. The most recent puppets to sign up will be the first cut, unless we receive voluntary withdrawals. By all means, we will attempt to avoid cutting main nations altogether.

Our plan, should we win the vote, would be to cut-off signups for the World Cup immediately and place nations on the waitlist for CTEs. 180 is the highest ideal number of signups we would like to entertain, to avoid the World Cup from being too bloated while ensuring that as many nations as possible get the chance to be in contention for the playoffs. However, if numbers hit 195, we will consider 15x13.

PotatoFarmers wrote:I should also add to Ko's question above and ask - how do you foresee the entire pre-WCQ process to be like? Like when do you cutoff, when do you open the threads, when do you do the draw and when do you start the first scorination?


As mentioned above, should we win, the cutoff for signups will occur immediately after the result of the vote results are received. As mentioned in an earlier answer,

Tumbra wrote:
We intend for the World Cup roster thread to appear when the Baptism of Fire hits the playoffs, and for the World Cup RP thread on the conclusion of the Baptism of Fire. The first matchday will occur approximately a week from then.


The draw will occur shortly after we receive updated KPBs.
THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF TUMBRA
Tumbra - a sprawling, modern federal democratic republic located in Esportiva. Strong economy, strong civil rights, strong freedoms.
Population: 121 million | TLA: TMB | Capital City: Straton | Largest City: Couno
Constitution | Domestic Database | Domestic Football | Domestic Motorsports | Wiki Article
President: Edward Merryweather (United) | Prime Minister: Bertram Andrews (Labour)
U-18 World Cup 13, 21 Champions/Di Bradini Cup 51, 57 Champions

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Postby Huayramarca » Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:04 pm

Congratulations on the victory of your bid, Chrom and Tumbra!

I have a question in regards of formatting preferences from the hosts for the Qualifiers. Will be a special focus on having a format that provides more MDs or will priority be given to formats with less MDs?

Population: 36 million, demonym: Huayramarcan, capital city: Chuquiago, languages: Spanish, Quechua, Aymara + 6

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Chromatika
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Founded: Aug 05, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Chromatika » Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:38 pm

Huayramarca wrote:Congratulations on the victory of your bid, Chrom and Tumbra!

I have a question in regards of formatting preferences from the hosts for the Qualifiers. Will be a special focus on having a format that provides more MDs or will priority be given to formats with less MDs?
We are looking to have 180 teams, 15x12. There will be 22 matchdays and 11 cutoffs.
Former User of the Nations of Yesopalitha and Falconfar

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