NationStates

I mean... She's not wrong. Rank coasting is pretty much impossible in NSSCRA. Miss even a couple cutoffs and your fall will be PDQ regardless of rank.

Question though: Are ranks on a per driver or per country basis?

Vil, have you looked at the sign up thread? There are a bunch of returning users and some RPers from other sports that are trying NSSCRA for the first time, but so far there has not been even a single sign-up from anyone that is new to the community. That's unusual.

There's more than one possible explanation. Maybe people are distracted by the US election. We're probably past the peak of people using NS to pass the time in quarantine. But it's also possible that the complexity of the sign-up process and the amount of information they need to take in is intimidating. The 2nd tier is not the only thing that has added more complexity since NSSCRA 6 -- we also have puppets, open charters, and more detailed info for tracks -- but it adds up. It is a lot to take in if someone is reading it all at once instead of learning it gradually like we did.

If you think the 2nd tier is still worth having, then that's your opinion. Just don't make up bullshit about the rank system, and don't lecture me about "inclusive mindsets." You defend the rank system in the WC, but then you come in NSSCRA where rank has way less impact and you wring your hands about new players getting discouraged. It makes no sense. Just because I don't share your very specific, very idiosyncratic, view of how each tournament should work does not mean I am being exclusionary. It just means I am not you. Shocker.

Saint Kanye wrote:Question though: Are ranks on a per driver or per country basis?

I believe they are by driver, but Newmanistan can correct me if I'm wrong.

Jebslund wrote:I mean... She's not wrong. Rank coasting is pretty much impossible in NSSCRA. Miss even a couple cutoffs and your fall will be PDQ regardless of rank.

Yes... I know thats what they are saying. They are saying that in order to consider being a new user in NSSCRA You have to RP daily or you won't ever be successful. That is the definition of a high barrier to entry.

Thats why Tier 2 offers the opportunity for less active users to participate in a meaningful way with more competitive results.

If you think the 2nd tier is still worth having, then that's your opinion. Just don't make up bullshit about the rank system

I never once mentioned anything about a rank system, so I don't know what you are arguing about. I made a factual statement about a conversation with an established user who didn't feel they could be as active RP wise in NSSCRA as the core competitors in NSSCRA, and how they liked the fact that they could compete in Tier 2 where there would be fewer competitors from the core high-activity nations that are taking up most of the spots in NSSCRA Tier 1. I never mentioned anything about ranks. I said that Tier 2 offers a way for less active contributors to be more competitive and potentially enjoy themselves more which could in the future lead to them being more involved.

I don't mind having disagreements but at least don't argue at me about something I didn't even say.

Strike wrote:

Jebslund wrote:I mean... She's not wrong. Rank coasting is pretty much impossible in NSSCRA. Miss even a couple cutoffs and your fall will be PDQ regardless of rank.

Yes... I know thats what they are saying. They are saying that in order to consider being a new user in NSSCRA You have to RP daily or you won't ever be successful. That is the definition of a high barrier to entry.

Thats why Tier 2 offers the opportunity for less active users to participate in a meaningful way with more competitive results.

If you think the 2nd tier is still worth having, then that's your opinion. Just don't make up bullshit about the rank system

I never once mentioned anything about a rank system, so I don't know what you are arguing about. I made a factual statement about a conversation with an established user who didn't feel they could be as active RP wise in NSSCRA as the core competitors in NSSCRA, and how they liked the fact that they could compete in Tier 2 where there would be fewer competitors from the core high-activity nations that are taking up most of the spots in NSSCRA Tier 1. I never mentioned anything about ranks. I said that Tier 2 offers a way for less active contributors to be more competitive and potentially enjoy themselves more which could in the future lead to them being more involved.

I don't mind having disagreements but at least don't argue at me about something I didn't even say.

Then what exactly is "considering tier 2 starts on equal footing" supposed to mean, if it's not about ranks?

Seriously, stop bringing stuff up and then when people respond to it, pretending like it came out of nowhere. You pulled the same shit when we talked about this the first time a few months ago.

Or if you really weren't talking about ranks, and the point of tier 2 is to have a place where people don't need to compete with me or Hap, then stop complaining about how much I hate it. If I thought it was cool your plan would be ruined. Cue snotty IC comments about "Rongba NSSCRA."

Stop bringing your personal grievances into the discussion thread. What is the point of this argument? Someone asked a specific question about applying to tier 2 only and I replied with information that they were not the only nation considering doing just that. Literally someone else brought it up not me. How you managed to turn that into a personal, expletive laden tirade against me boggles my mind. If you don't have anything nice to say either don't say it at all, or at least keep it to the/dm where everyone else doesn't have to be bothered by it.

Strike wrote:Stop bringing your personal grievances into the discussion thread. What is the point of this argument? Someone asked a specific question about applying to tier 2 only and I replied with information that they were not the only nation considering doing just that. Literally someone else brought it up not me. How you managed to turn that into a personal, expletive laden tirade against me boggles my mind. If you don't have anything nice to say either don't say it at all, or at least keep it to the/dm where everyone else doesn't have to be bothered by it.

You keep repeating the same lines about "starting on equal footing" or "bad results" as if ranks are an issue. Cass didn't ask about that.

The Sherpa Empire wrote:

Strike wrote:Stop bringing your personal grievances into the discussion thread. What is the point of this argument? Someone asked a specific question about applying to tier 2 only and I replied with information that they were not the only nation considering doing just that. Literally someone else brought it up not me. How you managed to turn that into a personal, expletive laden tirade against me boggles my mind. If you don't have anything nice to say either don't say it at all, or at least keep it to the/dm where everyone else doesn't have to be bothered by it.

You keep repeating the same lines about "starting on equal footing" or "bad results" as if ranks are an issue. Cass didn't ask about that.

I don't know what you mean about "Keep repeating" - I made one small comment in one post and then didn't address the issue again.

By definition, less active nations who enter Tier 2 have a better chance at achieving better results than they do in Tier 1. This is because in Tier 1 you will have 30+ charters reserved for entrants from returning users who have not only competed in NSSCRA for multiple seasons, but also who have demonstrated a propensity to contribute actively and regularly.

Since these users will be contributing 0 or 1 - maybe in some cases at the end of the list 2 drivers to Tier 2, by definition, it will be strictly easier for a less active nation to achieve better results in Tier 2. If you have 8 established nations getting 3 charters each in Tier 1 that clogs up the Top 24 spots in the results on paper. In Tier 2, at worst that would block 8 spots but in reality even less since users like yourself won't be participating in Tier 2. So you could come in as a new user with light RP and be rewarded from the outset with a Top 10 finish strictly because you are on a more equal footing with the users you are competing against - as more of the field will be made up of either newer users or less active users / puppets and not 3x entries per user from the "NSSCRA Core" who contribute the most RP.

Yes, in the end, the champion of Tier 2 may come from the core based on RP, but new less active users might find themselves competing for Top 10s instead of Top 30s. Which is a massive difference in RESULTS that has nothing to do with whatever you are arguing about Ranks that I never mentioned anything about. Additionally, they will have the opportunity to host a race which they might not have been able to do as a less active new user in a reduce-schedule Tier 1, which, again, at least one user has already mentioned to me they are considering signing up just for that fact.



EDIT: Per Discord follow up, and acknowledging the clarification below, we are agreed to potentially be talking 'past each other' on separate topics and will now be moving on

Strike wrote:

The Sherpa Empire wrote:
You keep repeating the same lines about "starting on equal footing" or "bad results" as if ranks are an issue. Cass didn't ask about that.

I don't know what you mean about "Keep repeating" - I made one small comment in one post and then didn't address the issue again.

I meant going back to last time we talked about this stuff, not just today.

Saint Kanye wrote:Question though: Are ranks on a per driver or per country basis?

The answer is, to a point, both. There are two separate columns that get added together for the drivers individual score:

The primary portion of the drivers ranking (or skill level put in xkoranate) is the RP bonus in which the nation has scored. As this competition is largely about RP, this will always be the most important component. It is spread evenly among the nations primary (not open charter) drivers.

Open charter drivers receive 75% of the nations overall RP score.

There is a smaller, secondary variable within a nation's ranking that is capable of causing variance within a nation's driver lineup so that each driver does not have the same exact skill value entered in. If Driver A keeps having better results then Driver B and Driver C, then this variable will start to cause a little separation between A from B and C as the nation's top driver. Drivers A, B, and C each get the same national bonus, but the secondary, and again smaller variable, will make A a little better.

For Saint Kanye, you don't really have much difference, but the 18 is a bit ahead in this category of the 3 and 46, but not by much. So for you or Vilita you'll hardly notice this. Sherpa and Valentine Z are similar. (using end season NSSCRA 9 numbers)

Cassadaigua has the most separation with the driver variable of the top nations right now between the 27 and the 4 and 11. So this means that while the 27, 4, and 11 get the same RP bonus; the 27's better results has allowed Stacie Houston to emerge as being the better driver of her nation, and the best shot for Cassadaigua to win a race. Though the national RP bonus is good enough for the 4 and 11 to catch back up. Hapilopper's Taylor Henderson in the last season is an example of a driver who did catch up to the 8 and 81 of her nation.

The variable will be toned down to start the year.

Newmanistan wrote:

Saint Kanye wrote:Question though: Are ranks on a per driver or per country basis?

The answer is, to a point, both. There are two separate columns that get added together for the drivers individual score:

The primary portion of the drivers ranking (or skill level put in xkoranate) is the RP bonus in which the nation has scored. As this competition is largely about RP, this will always be the most important component. It is spread evenly among the nations primary (not open charter) drivers.

Open charter drivers receive 75% of the nations overall RP score.

There is a smaller, secondary variable within a nation's ranking that is capable of causing variance within a nation's driver lineup so that each driver does not have the same exact skill value entered in. If Driver A keeps having better results then Driver B and Driver C, then this variable will start to cause a little separation between A from B and C as the nation's top driver. Drivers A, B, and C each get the same national bonus, but the secondary, and again smaller variable, will make A a little better.

For Saint Kanye, you don't really have much difference, but the 18 is a bit ahead in this category of the 3 and 46, but not by much. So for you or Vilita you'll hardly notice this. Sherpa and Valentine Z are similar. (using end season NSSCRA 9 numbers)

Cassadaigua has the most separation with the driver variable of the top nations right now between the 27 and the 4 and 11. So this means that while the 27, 4, and 11 get the same RP bonus; the 27's better results has allowed Stacie Houston to emerge as being the better driver of her nation, and the best shot for Cassadaigua to win a race. Though the national RP bonus is good enough for the 4 and 11 to catch back up. Hapilopper's Taylor Henderson in the last season is an example of a driver who did catch up to the 8 and 81 of her nation.

The variable will be toned down to start the year.

I actually like the variation between drivers of the same nationality.

As a curious question, since Jolyn is signed up under my new puppet nation, will she lose all the skills that she has accumulated in NSSCRA 8? Not that I expect her to be a bona fide driver, considering that she was not around for a whole season, so I can always fit my writing that she was just rusty.

Will Holly and Jolyn inherit a small degree of bonus from Valentine Z's posts, or will they only get it if I RP as that nation?

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EDIT: When can we expect a schedule to be out? I am not asking out of impatience, sorry if I sounded that way. I just want to make sure that I don't miss it, and to manage my time well.

Valentine Z wrote:As a curious question, since Jolyn is signed up under my new puppet nation, will she lose all the skills that she has accumulated in NSSCRA 8? Not that I expect her to be a bona fide driver, considering that she was not around for a whole season, so I can always fit my writing that she was just rusty.

Will Holly and Jolyn inherit a small degree of bonus from Valentine Z's posts, or will they only get it if I RP as that nation?

I would expect puppets and main nations to be scored separately. Each nation should have its own IC identity even if they are OOCly owned by the same player.

If you want your puppet's drivers to do well, you need to RP with the puppet. I didn't RP my puppet very much in NSSCRA 9 and Hengxing Tian was really slow.

The Sherpa Empire wrote:

Valentine Z wrote:As a curious question, since Jolyn is signed up under my new puppet nation, will she lose all the skills that she has accumulated in NSSCRA 8? Not that I expect her to be a bona fide driver, considering that she was not around for a whole season, so I can always fit my writing that she was just rusty.

Will Holly and Jolyn inherit a small degree of bonus from Valentine Z's posts, or will they only get it if I RP as that nation?

I would expect puppets and main nations to be scored separately. Each nation should have its own IC identity even if they are OOCly owned by the same player.

If you want your puppet's drivers to do well, you need to RP with the puppet. I didn't RP my puppet very much in NSSCRA 9 and Hengxing Tian was really slow.

That will still be fine, thanks! ^^ I just wanted the clarity, so I can distribute the RP across the two more.

Valentine Z wrote:

The Sherpa Empire wrote:
I would expect puppets and main nations to be scored separately. Each nation should have its own IC identity even if they are OOCly owned by the same player.

If you want your puppet's drivers to do well, you need to RP with the puppet. I didn't RP my puppet very much in NSSCRA 9 and Hengxing Tian was really slow.

That will still be fine, thanks! ^^ I just wanted the clarity, so I can distribute the RP across the two more.

What will be the case then if the driver participated last season and will be moving to other nations's teams (i.e, Harrison, Tsuchie)? How will be their starting points be, as I recall there were some discussions from this post how to tackle this, but I think there was no conclusive answer to it.

Filindostan wrote:What will be the case then if the driver participated last season and will be moving to other nations's teams (i.e, Harrison, Tsuchie)? How will be their starting points be, as I recall there were some discussions from this post how to tackle this, but I think there was no conclusive answer to it.

I do hope that Jolyn will at least retain a degree of her experience unlike Holly. I think this is the case with drivers that did not become mainstays. Jolyn participated in NSSCRA 8, was absent for NSSCRA 9 (she was there for one race, but DNQ), and coming back for NSSCRA 10 under a different team.

So now I am aware that I need to RP both nations with differing priorities. Still, will Jolyn as a driver retain the points, or will she be treated like a total rookie once again?

Newmanistan wrote:snip

Gotcha. How do you deal with former R&D drivers who move up? Will Sage inherit Skip's ratings or not?

Possibly stupid question: Which races are in the Five Star Combo?

Five Star Mobile 500, Tundra Falls 500, Pencurve Electronics 500, Vilaye 314 and the Tropicorp beach race.

Five Star is the main sponsor, shouldn't be changed.
TF500 is the season opener.
The Pencurve is the regular season finale, huge implications for that race.
Vilaye 314 is the oldest race in the schedule.

I think the last one should be changed though. The Super Skychief 500 would be a good replacement due to it being one of the most hyped races in the schedule, along with the Guilin 400 (the one with the Rumble). However, the latter won't be run this year due to the track being under repair. Plus ya know, that would make five races for five different users.

Saint Kanye wrote:Five Star Mobile 500, Tundra Falls 500, Pencurve Electronics 500, Vilaye 314 and the Tropicorp beach race.

Five Star is the main sponsor, shouldn't be changed.
TF500 is the season opener.
The Pencurve is the regular season finale, huge implications for that race.
Vilaye 314 is the oldest race in the schedule.

I think the last one should be changed though. The Super Skychief 500 would be a good replacement due to it being one of the most hyped races in the schedule, along with the Guilin 400 (the one with the Rumble). However, the latter won't be run this year due to the track being under repair. Plus ya know, that would make five races for five different users.

Ah. Thank ye!

Ooh, signup is closing soon, I noticed. ^^

Valentine Z wrote:Ooh, signup is closing soon, I noticed. ^^

Indeed! Today is the last day in which signups will be open. After today, we start figuring out this field.

Newmanistan wrote:

Valentine Z wrote:Ooh, signup is closing soon, I noticed. ^^

Indeed! Today is the last day in which signups will be open. After today, we start figuring out this field.

Nice, looking forward to it!

Haven't checked the numbers but it feels like we've had fewer sign ups this year. Anyway to leave it open till possibly this weekend?

Appalachian Nation wrote:Haven't checked the numbers but it feels like we've had fewer sign ups this year. Anyway to leave it open till possibly this weekend?

I personally think we're set, this is still a fairly huge field.