IBC Discussion Thread (OOC, V2)

by **International Basketball Organization** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:58 am

So, we have a tie. This is my fault for not running a ranked choice vote, although my interpretation of the constitution is that such a thing might not be valid anyway.

...which feels like a deeply silly thing to be saying about a RNG-based roleplay about throwing a ball through a hoop. C'mon. This is not a major political office. It is a 99% administrative role whose duties and responsibilities are basically limited to saying "pls sign up" every few months. This is a nice community that gets on most of the time and I don't feel the need for great drama here.

My inclination is to simply drop out and let the person with the most votes win, but that would amount to me unilaterally deciding the vote and not really be fair. In the absence of any constitutional mechanism for resolving this (again...) I am going to simply extend voting by (slightly under) 72 hours, to Monday 21 March, 0900 UTC.

Those IBO members who have not already voted may vote.

In the event that we do not break the tie, I will, um. Idk.

by **Sarzonia** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:17 pm

International Basketball Organization wrote:So, we have a tie. This is my fault for not running a ranked choice vote, although my interpretation of the constitution is that such a thing might not be valid anyway.

...which feels like a deeply silly thing to be saying about a RNG-based roleplay about throwing a ball through a hoop. C'mon. This is not a major political office. It is a 99% administrative role whose duties and responsibilities are basically limited to saying "pls sign up" every few months. This is a nice community that gets on most of the time and I don't feel the need for great drama here.

My inclination is to simply drop out and let the person with the most votes win, but that would amount to me unilaterally deciding the vote and not really be fair. In the absence of any constitutional mechanism for resolving this (again...) I am going to simply extend voting by (slightly under) 72 hours, to Monday 21 March, 0900 UTC.

Those IBO members who have not already voted may vote.

In the event that we do not break the tie, I will, um. Idk.

Looks like we may need to have an amendment or a few to prevent something like this from happening again.

EDIT: I skimmed through the IBC Constitution. Unless it's been subsequently amended and that amendment was not included, here's the relevant part:

Article III: President of the IBO

Section 4: The president's duties are the following: opening the sign-up thread; opening and collecting host voting; opening and collecting constitutional proposal voting; keeping the membership list updated; and making any other arbitrary decisions which are not fit to be decided by the organization as a whole.

There are no provisions that address whether ranked choice is permissible under the Constitution. In their absence, we can treat it as if it is allowed.

As for voting for the Presidency, one way to address this is if the President is up for re-election, they can either have the Vice President or a designee who isn't a candidate run the election. The designee would come into play if both the President and the Vice President are candidates in the same election. In keeping with protocols in other sports, we can codify that whomever is running the election not vote unless it's to break a tie.

The person running the election should have the right to operate it as single choice or ranked choice as they see fit as long as it's in keeping with what the membership wants.

We can also possibly include a procedure for a run-off election in the event that two or more candidates are level in votes. If, say, there are five candidates and three are level in vote totals, we can have a run-off election that eliminates the other two candidates. Perhaps as a means of discouraging people from abstaining in the run-off, we could require that voters choose between or among the remaining candidates and NOT abstain. If it's still level after that, then perhaps it's up to the election administrator to cast the tiebreaking vote.

Just some thoughts based on other precedents, including the WLC since I wrote those.

by **International Basketball Organization** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:15 am

Results after poll extension:

Græntfjall - 4
TJUN-ia - 2
South Newlandia - 0

Therefore, somewhat awkwardly, Græntfjall is re-elected as president.

Thank you. My first act is to reappoint TJUN-ia as Vice-President.

I am also going to reappoint Drawkland as rank keeper. Technically I took over doing the ranks for the last couple cycles as Drawk was quite busy IRL, but I've spoken to them and they're happy to resume the official duties.

I do not plan on holding another IBC until after the next WC, so we have plenty of time to sort out the organizational stuff. That said, I think we probably should think about whether some more precise language on how to run votes/break ties is needed.

by **Sarzonia** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:21 pm

Proposed Article III, Section 7:

In the event of a tie between candidates for President, a run-off election shall take place between the candidates who are tied. This election shall last for a period of three (3) RL days from the announcement by the President or the presiding officer responsible for tallying electoral votes.

For this run-off election, the choice among the voting membership shall be between the candidates remaining. Voters shall not vote to re-open voting and shall not abstain. Voting IBC Council members shall send their votes between the remaining candidates to the President or their designate within the prescribed time.

Proposed Article III, Section 8:

The President shall be responsible for operating elections for President. If the President and the Vice President are both candidates in a Presidential election, they may designate one Council member who is not a candidate themselves to collect and tabulate the votes. The designee retains the option to vote, whether to break a tie or otherwise.

Discussion of proposed Article III, Section 7:

1. Since we don't have a provision in place to handle a tied election, I figured we should have something in place. This proposed section eliminates any candidates who have fewer votes than the level candidates in a run-off election.
2. I figured three RL days was a good length of time to hold a run-off. Obviously, we can change this to a different number if needed or wanted.
3. The more important element of this is the idea that votes to re-open voting or to abstain are expressly prohibited in a run-off. Allowing a vote to re-open voting or permitting an abstention runs the risk of further extending the election when the goal is to end it. If a voter does not want to vote for either candidate in a run-off, they would abstain by not voting.
4. I said "between" candidates, but if there are three or more candidates, the same principle applies. I just figured "between or among" which I first typed out would be too wordy.

Discussion of proposed Article III, Section 8:
1. The idea here is that if the President would run an election, it would make official the precedent we've been following. If the President is comfortable with running the election, whether it's because they're not a candidate or they are and they don't want to pass the duty on to the Vice President or to someone else, they can. However, if they are a candidate for President, they can pass on the responsibility to the Vice President if they're not a candidate or designate someone else to run the election.
2. I didn't feel entirely comfortable with prohibiting the designee from voting in an election whether it's as an IBC Council member or simply to break a tie, so I left the option open for the designee to do whatever they felt was best.

I'd welcome questions/comments/feedback from interested parties.

by **Graintfjall** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:01 pm

I've been waiting to see if there was going to be any feedback before putting these to vote, but doesn't seem like there is.

For my part (speaking as player, not president):

This election shall last for a period of three (3) RL days from the announcement by the President or the presiding officer responsible for tallying electoral votes.

Don't really see that we have to set a hard time limit, anyone trusted to collect the votes should be trusted to run the run-off in a timely fashion.

I'm not super sure the change to 8 is needed but there's no harm in it I guess.

Anyone else has until Monday 11 to get any remaining comments or revise the wording, and then I will send out votes.

by **Sarzonia** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:44 pm

I have misgivings about a President running for election also running the election by collecting votes.

It's not at all that don't trust a President to run an election fairly, but there's also the prospect of hurt feelings for someone who sees a vote for their opponent. Not to mention there's the potential appearance of impropriety by having a President run an election they're a candidate in.

I chose another person who wasn't a candidate to run the WLC election when I ran. I only ran the election where I announced from break that I wasn't a candidate. I think it's a useful precedent to follow.

As for 3 RL days, a runoff election comes after what is often a lengthy process. Three days is enough time to whittle down.

by **International Basketball Organization** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:45 am

We have two amendments to vote on. Members of the IBO committee (listed in the OP) may vote.

Please vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN on each amendment. All votes must be sent to this account by April 14 0900 UTC.

Amendment 1

Add new section to Article III:

In the event of a tie between candidates for President, a run-off election shall take place between the candidates who are tied. This election shall last for a period of three (3) RL days from the announcement by the President or the presiding officer responsible for tallying electoral votes.

For this run-off election, the choice among the voting membership shall be between the candidates remaining. Voters shall not vote to re-open voting and shall not abstain. Voting IBC Council members shall send their votes between the remaining candidates to the President or their designate within the prescribed time.

Amendment 2

Add new section to Article III:

The President shall be responsible for operating elections for President. If the President and the Vice President are both candidates in a Presidential election, they may designate one Council member who is not a candidate themselves to collect and tabulate the votes. The designee retains the option to vote, whether to break a tie or otherwise.

by **International Basketball Organization** » Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:05 am

Results:

On Amendment 1:

FOR - 5
ABSTAIN - 1

The amendment passes.

On Amendment 2:

FOR - 6

The amendment passes.

Thank you to everyone for voting. Any further amendments will be held and voted the next time we meet, which will probably be in a month or two!

by **IUBC** » Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:18 am

INTERNATIONAL UNION OF BASKETBALL CLUBS
presented by Data West

Cutoff for entries for the twenty-fifth edition of the IUBC is provisionally set at June 17 at 2200 UTC.

If you are a member of the NS Sports Discord community, you can subscribe to the IUBC Subscriber role to get an alert for the latest IUBC updates:

Kita Hinode wrote:Announcement - Seeing as the IFCF Subscriber role has been working out so well, I added an IUBC Subscriber role so that users can get updates on NSS' major basketball tournament. Like with the other two Subscriber roles, type +getrole IUBC Subscriber and send it on #botcity and your message will be reacted with a checkmark if it works.

by **Valentine Z** » Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:10 am

Hello, everyone! <3

Not out of impatience or to rush things, and more to keep things on track for me, I would like to ask on when we will be tentatively having the host bidding process for this upcoming season. I know the signups are still open so it's probably not too soon but still, I figured I would ask.

Thanks! ^^

by **Graintfjall** » Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:47 am

For what? For the IBC, or the IUBC?

For the IBC, host bids are due June 10. Hopefully we'll have at least 1 bid by then and vote.

For the IUBC, there are no host bids. The IUBC committee will scorinate the tournament. Anyone wishing to host the final may bid, by the submission deadline, but this is purely an IC thing and they don't need to be responsible for scorination.

by **Valentine Z** » Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:06 am

Graintfjall wrote:For what? For the IBC, or the IUBC?

For the IBC, host bids are due June 10. Hopefully we'll have at least 1 bid by then and vote.

For the IUBC, there are no host bids. The IUBC committee will scorinate the tournament. Anyone wishing to host the final may bid, by the submission deadline, but this is purely an IC thing and they don't need to be responsible for scorination.

Ahhh, I forgot to clarify but yes, for IBC. And thanks! ^^

by **Sarzonia** » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:26 am

I'm a little bit confused by the requirements to remain a voting member of the IBC Council for someone who didn't participate in a previous edition.

I've seen it referred to in the Constitution where the requirement was a roster AND an RP and also just a roster.

Which is it? And should we make clear which of the two it is?

by **International Basketball Organization** » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:37 am

My interpretation is: in order to gain membership (as a non-member) you need 1 roster + 1 RP in 2 consecutive IBCs.

In order to keep membership (as a member) you merely need to keep rostering. There's no ongoing requirement to post RPs once you've gained membership.

I don't think it's particularly unclear but if you have a clarifying wording, you can propose it. I'll handle all voting on amendments at the end of this tournament.

by **Sarzonia** » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:11 am

I just want to clarify in my last IC post that the section under the line is meant for solely secret IC info.

The player behind TJUN-ia can use the info to inform how he writes any interactions between my characters and his, but they aren't meant for public knowledge.

by **Sarzonia** » Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:41 am

Congrats to Nova Anglicana for the title, commiserations to everyone else and thank you Quebec for a smooth hosting experience!

I'm a little mad about losing out to the eventual champs on a freaking tiebreaker, but I'll live. :roll:

At least it's something to build on for the future!

by **Drawkland** » Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:32 am

Sarzonia wrote:Congrats to Nova Anglicana for the title, commiserations to everyone else and thank you Quebec for a smooth hosting experience!

I'm a little mad about losing out to the eventual champs on a freaking tiebreaker, but I'll live. At least it's something to build on for the future!

Maybe you could've beaten them in your head-to-head matchup and the tiebreaker wouldn't have mattered

by **Sarzonia** » Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:35 am

Drawkland wrote:
Sarzonia wrote:Congrats to Nova Anglicana for the title, commiserations to everyone else and thank you Quebec for a smooth hosting experience!

I'm a little mad about losing out to the eventual champs on a freaking tiebreaker, but I'll live. At least it's something to build on for the future!

Maybe you could've beaten them in your head-to-head matchup and the tiebreaker wouldn't have mattered

ok zoomer

by **International Basketball Organization** » Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:42 am

IBO membership updates. Eligibility reminder:

Section 1: To be a member of the IBO, a nation must have posted a roster and at least 1 RP in each of the previous 2 IBCs.

Section 2: Nations which do not post a roster for 2 consecutive IBCs will lose their membership.

Section 3: Any previous hosts of the IBC are automatically members of the IBO, so long as they successfully hosted the tournament to its conclusion and posted a roster in the most recently completed edition of the IBC.

* New additions
† Must post a roster in IBC 36 to retain membership.

The following nations will earn membership if they post a roster and an RP during IBC36:

Having failed to keep up with membership requirements, the following nations have been removed as IBO members. They can regain IBO membership through renewed participation.

Please notify us directly of any errors.

by **Krbustan** » Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:43 pm

IUBC wrote:
(Image)
INTERNATIONAL UNION OF BASKETBALL CLUBS
presented by Data West

Cutoff for entries for the twenty-fifth edition of the IUBC is provisionally set at June 17 at 2200 UTC.

If you are a member of the NS Sports Discord community, you can subscribe to the IUBC Subscriber role to get an alert for the latest IUBC updates:

Kita Hinode wrote:Announcement - Seeing as the IFCF Subscriber role has been working out so well, I added an IUBC Subscriber role so that users can get updates on NSS' major basketball tournament. Like with the other two Subscriber roles, type +getrole IUBC Subscriber and send it on #botcity and your message will be reacted with a checkmark if it works.

Hi
When will the The 25th IUBC Trophy start?

by **Graintfjall** » Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:56 pm

I'll scorinate it this week. Apologies for letting it slip.

by **Krbustan** » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:01 pm

NP, thank you

by **Drawkland** » Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:47 pm

A couple things:

One, the signups for IBC 36 are now open HERE. I didn't open them obvs since I'm not president anymore, but it looked like nobody has posted the link in this thread yet. If you for some reason check this thread but missed the opening of signup announcement elsewhere, you're welcome. Let this also serve as a reminder that we have 3 days left before the bid deadline and no bids have been posted. Prospective hosts, now is the time!

Two, the ranks following IBC 35 are located HERE. I used the same system for the double group stage as I did following IBC 31: teams that make the second group stage are awarded the playoff qualification bonus, but the games played in the actual second group stage aren't counted because the teams that did well get additional points for advancing to and through the knockout bracket, while teams that don't do well end up being penalized compared to their fellows who were eliminated in the first stage.

by **International Basketball Organization** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:29 am

Thank you.

by **International Basketball Organization** » Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:32 am

IBO membership updates. Eligibility reminder:

Section 1: To be a member of the IBO, a nation must have posted a roster and at least 1 RP in each of the previous 2 IBCs.

Section 2: Nations which do not post a roster for 2 consecutive IBCs will lose their membership.

Section 3: Any previous hosts of the IBC are automatically members of the IBO, so long as they successfully hosted the tournament to its conclusion and posted a roster in the most recently completed edition of the IBC.

* New additions (in all cases, returning former hosts)
† Must post a roster in IBC 37 to retain membership.

The following nations will earn membership if they post a roster and an RP during IBC37:

Having failed to keep up with membership requirements, the following nations have been removed as IBO members. They can regain IBO membership through renewed participation.

Please notify us directly of any errors.

IBC Discussion Thread (OOC, V2)

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