WGP2 (World Grand Prix Championship Tier2) Discussion Thread

[The Redvale]

As for hosting I think we should see first if Lisander wants to do it, because he suggested it. I was going to host it back when I came up with the idea but I think I'll pull out of that because I was planning on running it with a very different format, that I'll probably save for a GT cars thing later. I kind of like the idea of having different racing events throughout the year so there's always something to compete in, even in the WGPC offseason.

[-Anthor-]

As for hosting I think we should see first if Lisander wants to do it, because he suggested it. I was going to host it back when I came up with the idea but I think I'll pull out of that because I was planning on running it with a very different format, that I'll probably save for a GT cars thing later. I kind of like the idea of having different racing events throughout the year so there's always something to compete in, even in the WGPC offseason.

Sounds like a good plan, Stan

[Barunia]

To the rules Esmerel proposed:

As The Redvale said, them being the same as WGPC helps for continuity purposes. Just if we actually make it a One Make series, we'd need no car abilities I guess. If we do same powertrain for all teams or something, but let teams develop their own chassis, they would make sense again.

Maybe have multiple scorinators, with each person assigned one or more races. That should help spread the load and possibly help more people become involved in scorination.

Might be a good idea, but if some people forget about it it might also cause chaos.

When I missed a scorination in the GCF test season (that's cricket, in case you were wondering), Liventia stepped in to score. If we have an overall person, perhaps the president of the governing body, who can step in when those problems occur, than it won't happen. From what I can tell, Audio has been late with the scorination of the WGPC a few times this season (with valid reasons, I hasten to add), and this would make sure that there's someone else to step into that breach.

[West-East Timor]

To the rules Esmerel proposed:

As The Redvale said, them being the same as WGPC helps for continuity purposes. Just if we actually make it a One Make series, we'd need no car abilities I guess. If we do same powertrain for all teams or something, but let teams develop their own chassis, they would make sense again.



Might be a good idea, but if some people forget about it it might also cause chaos.

When I missed a scorination in the GCF test season (that's cricket, in case you were wondering), Liventia stepped in to score. If we have an overall person, perhaps the president of the governing body, who can step in when those problems occur, than it won't happen. From what I can tell, Audio has been late with the scorination of the WGPC a few times this season (with valid reasons, I hasten to add), and this would make sure that there's someone else to step into that breach.

You're right, that might work. But I'd also say we wait if Lisander, who proposed it, wants to scorinate it.

[Audioslavia]

I'll try to work on a user-friendly version of the excel scorinator I use for WGPC. It's a biggie, though, so anyone wanting to host WGP2 would have a fight on their hands with it. I can walk them through the intricacies of it without too much of a hassle.

Inspired by the logos I've seen, here's my attempt at a WGP2 logo:

And, inspired partly by my preview poster from a couple of years back, when I first took over WGPC, here's a WGP2 preview poster. Use or discard any of the above, it's up to you.

[Esmerel]

Note that this is an unorganized mess of brainstorming I had earlier. If your OCD goes off then I apologize in advance.

Pre-Season

Signups and negotiations will go the way they do in the WGPC.

Prior to the beginning to the season, two pre-season tests will be hosted. Teams may opt out of these tests if they choose to.

Teams that haven't secured drivers yet could choose to test with free agents.

There will be a gap of two weeks between the second pre-season test and the season opener. Teams will automatically forfeit their position in the WGP2 if they have not secured two drivers one week before the first race.

Should there be fewer teams than the maximum, the WGPC will enter "WGP2 Motorworks," a team that cannot be applied to. It will send telegrams to free agents and give drivers that respond with "yes" a drive.


Only One Make?

The reason I support a one-make series is that we need at least some distancing between the WGPC and WGP2. WGP2 is a feeder series and not a sister series, meaning there needs to be some key differences. A one-make series would result in applicants needing to be less of a petrolhead to understand how everything works, and give many newcomers a proper chance at a debut rather than being left in the dust.


Do we allow refueling?

It's a minor detail, sure, but do we allow teams to refuel and get more pit strategy in?


What scorinator? And who will scorinate?

I think xkoranate would be suitable as a scorinator. In my eyes, the three best people to host would be either Lisander, Anthor, or me. You'd have to be open on the weekends, and understand how to run a scorinator.


Timing?

Well, the WGPC season ends in about a month. I think we have that time to prepare this.


Points?

I still think 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 works better than 25-18-14-10-8-6-4-3-2-1. Lower points would allow for a closer race. Also, do we give out bonus points for fastest lap and pole position?


Teams?

Do we allow for 12 teams or 13? 12 entry teams and a 13th works team? Can teams sign reserve and testing drivers?


How many races?

We'll have to determine this based on the number of track signups. However, they'd be either weekly or biweekly, and no more than 15 of them, with no fewer than 10.


Do we allow for injuries?

Can we let roleplayers give their drivers injuries to sideline them for a bit, or even a career-ending crash?


Should we involve the 107% rule in qualifying?

Enough said. Drivers that are too slow to qualify within 107% of the polesitter's time cannot race, bar exceptions such as changing weather.

[Eastfield Lodge]

The WGPC, afaik, has never had a ruling on refuelling in pit stops.
But 107% rule should never be in play here. It's been removed from the WGPC for the reason that it would limit RP'ing.

[Esmerel]

I'll try to work on a user-friendly version of the excel scorinator I use for WGPC. It's a biggie, though, so anyone wanting to host WGP2 would have a fight on their hands with it. I can walk them through the intricacies of it without too much of a hassle.

Inspired by the logos I've seen, here's my attempt at a WGP2 logo:

(Image)

And, inspired partly by my preview poster from a couple of years back, when I first took over WGPC, here's a WGP2 preview poster. Use or discard any of the above, it's up to you.

I'm not discarding it, though the font looks a little bit difficult to read...
Anyways, this image here would be a promo picture displayed on billboards (electronic ones) in Esmerel. I'm really starting to like how the red 2 goes with the rest of the logo. It should be the color the logo goes with.

The WGPC, afaik, has never had a ruling on refuelling in pit stops.
But 107% rule should never be in play here. It's been removed from the WGPC for the reason that it would limit RP'ing.

That would be a good idea. It's just that we're only on day 3 of planning, and at the moment we just need to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

[Rardium]

When would we be allowed to start creating teams?

[Lisander]

When would we be allowed to start creating teams?

It was already said. This is not a Sign-up topic. Wait for it.

I'm currently unable to answer about scorination and competition format, since I'm using my smartphone. But I'll get my hands in a complete proposal next days, that will include scorination, graphics and formatting.

[-Anthor-]

Just to add onto Esmerel's ideas;


I think the one make series proposal has merit, however I have an alternative; WGPC prides itself on being the complete and total opposite to the F1 body in real by not having any bans or real rules; why not introduce a series of rules, not as stringent as F1 in real life, but based on it. It wouldn't have any real practical applications, but it would have some RP limits/possibly fun scenarios I think.

As far as scorinating goes, Barunia makes a good point about having a second, as it were, to prevent a less-then smooth sailing. I appreciate the nod of recognition from Esmerel's post, but I think perhaps splitting this administration, much like how many major sport events are cohosted, would be beneficial. It would enable us to practically guarantee smooth sailing, and it would provide two people with hosting experience. This is after all a junior series/competition, so anyone looking to gain their hosting legs as it were could begin here.

I think the lower points scheme fits our vibe perfectly, as Esmerel said and I shall echo, I think it will provide for a much closer race and prevent a large leadoff at the top positions, especially if a few drivers get a some consecutive podium spots, I wouldn't want them to be put in the virtual clear, while having "under dogs" need to make high level podium spots numerously to recover the distance between; plus, closer races leads to better writing in my case, I'd much rather write about how my driver is still looking over her shoulder, then talk about how after half of the season, I'm never probably gonna lose this.

As for the team limit, I'd say judge initial interest. I'm not sure of how many people are intrigued in this idea, but for argument's sake let's say half of what WGPC got; I think 12 teams is a bit much, and I'd much more favor a format in where there is a limited number of teams, and a larger pool of drivers; i.e., I'd prefer if there were people that just had a driver, and not a team in this event.

[West-East Timor]

I don't like having not many teams, as I think there is quite some interest in this. See, if everyone who has posted something in this thread (except Audio, who I think said he wouldn't participate) signed up a team, we already had 12 teams, and I think there are way more people interested. Also, IRL GP2 (or now Formula 2) has always about as many teams as F1 has. If we do only about six teams or so, they should be allowed to sign more, I'd say up to four drivers, like in Formula 3 (guess that's what you meant with larger pool of drivers).

[-Anthor-]

I don't like having not many teams, as I think there is quite some interest in this. See, if everyone who has posted something in this thread (except Audio, who I think said he wouldn't participate) signed up a team, we already had 12 teams, and I think there are way more people interested. Also, IRL GP2 (or now Formula 2) has always about as many teams as F1 has. If we do only about six teams or so, they should be allowed to sign more, I'd say up to four drivers, like in Formula 3 (guess that's what you meant with larger pool of drivers).

No I meant, ideally; there is 12 people who have indicated interest. Limit the teams to 6, the other 6 people get to play drivers.

[Megelan]

No I meant, ideally; there is 12 people who have indicated interest. Limit the teams to 6, the other 6 people get to play drivers.

Or, 6 teams take part in WGP2, 6 teams take part in WGP3, with the top 2 teams of WGP3 promoted to WGP2 and the bottom 2 teams of WGP2 relegated to WGP3. It could've happened between Formula 1 and GP2.

[West-East Timor]

I don't like having not many teams, as I think there is quite some interest in this. See, if everyone who has posted something in this thread (except Audio, who I think said he wouldn't participate) signed up a team, we already had 12 teams, and I think there are way more people interested. Also, IRL GP2 (or now Formula 2) has always about as many teams as F1 has. If we do only about six teams or so, they should be allowed to sign more, I'd say up to four drivers, like in Formula 3 (guess that's what you meant with larger pool of drivers).

No I meant, ideally; there is 12 people who have indicated interest. Limit the teams to 6, the other 6 people get to play drivers.

Ah, yeah, that would make sense. I'd say we see how many teams will sign up until a certain deadline, when we've got a signup thread up, and then decide how many of these and which will be accepted. So we really know how much interest there is.

Or, 6 teams take part in WGP2, 6 teams take part in WGP3, with the top 2 teams of WGP3 promoted to WGP2 and the bottom 2 teams of WGP2 relegated to WGP3. It could've happened between Formula 1 and GP2.

I don't know if this would work. How would we decide who will drive in WGP2 and who in WGP3? Also, if none of the people playing the teams decide they don't want to do it anymore, there will be no new teams. And even if some people decide they don't want to do it anymore, there would still be only a few new teams accepted. It could work, but I doubt it would work well...

[Barunia]

I don't like having not many teams, as I think there is quite some interest in this. See, if everyone who has posted something in this thread (except Audio, who I think said he wouldn't participate) signed up a team, we already had 12 teams, and I think there are way more people interested. Also, IRL GP2 (or now Formula 2) has always about as many teams as F1 has. If we do only about six teams or so, they should be allowed to sign more, I'd say up to four drivers, like in Formula 3 (guess that's what you meant with larger pool of drivers).

No I meant, ideally; there is 12 people who have indicated interest. Limit the teams to 6, the other 6 people get to play drivers.

Isn't this meant to be a feeder for WGPC? In the current season there are 13 teams competing, with no works team. With every team full, that is 23 drivers. Sure, I understand that we don't want to monopolise WGPC with teams from WGP2, but 6 teams and 12 drivers is a rather extreme limit to be placing on this. If we need to ensure not all spaces from WGPC are filled with WGP2 cars, we can just use the season as a qualifying round.

[Audioslavia]

Currently in WGPC team signups are open, but only 10-13 are selected for the final field. In previous seasons, team signups were done by invitation only. Good RPers from previous seasons were offered teams and, rarely, good RPers from elsewhere on NS Sports were given opportunities to run teams. I may use the invitational method for WGPC16 if WGP2 is a success. Offers of a team would remain open to historically important teams and users who may not have RP'd so heavily in recent editions (Nekoni carried the WGPC through its less popular years, Liventia was a former host, while Vilita and Hodori are the foremost petrol-heads on the forum. Naturally I'd usually want to select McPahan too, though this isn't always a certainty.) for the respective users to accept or pass, with the other slots being taken by the best RPers. There's a backbone of around 7/8 users currently RPing the WGPC and they would all be offered invitations to form teams next season. We'll see what the score is come the end of the year.

I'm saying this because I'd see WGP2 as a feeder to the WGPC both OOCly and ICly. Teams who RP well in the WGP2 would have a very good chance of being invited to form a team in the next WGPC season. A newcomer to WGP2 who does well may well be offered a team despite not taking part in the current WGPC season.

ICly I don't see a reason why a driver would race in WGPC and then, immediately after, race in WGP2. It could happen the other way round, and you could have drivers from a few seasons ago trying to find their feet again in the second division before a possible call-up to the big leagues, but it ICly wouldn't make sense for, say, someone like Fernando Alonso to finish an F1 season and then try his hand at Formula 3.

I think it's also important to note that, for most users, having one driver is more than enough. RPing a team takes time and effort and involves co-RPing skills with one or more other users. It's not for the faint of heart.

I don't think there should be a hard limit on WGP2 team entries for now, simply because you can't really know how popular any given season/event is going to be. There have been times when I've had about 14/15 credible teams enter WGPC but ended up with only 10 final entrants and/or 7 or 8 actively participating teams. I doubt there'd be a demand for a further 'division three' of racing.

If there's anything I'd recommend keeping to a low number it's the amount of race weekends and events. 8 races would be enough for a first season, with one pre-season test and one mid-season test. You don't want to burn yourself out. There's a reason I only did one fifteen-race season in the past, and why more than one previous WGPC edition ended prematurely.

[Esmerel]

I don't like having not many teams, as I think there is quite some interest in this. See, if everyone who has posted something in this thread (except Audio, who I think said he wouldn't participate) signed up a team, we already had 12 teams, and I think there are way more people interested. Also, IRL GP2 (or now Formula 2) has always about as many teams as F1 has. If we do only about six teams or so, they should be allowed to sign more, I'd say up to four drivers, like in Formula 3 (guess that's what you meant with larger pool of drivers).

No I meant, ideally; there is 12 people who have indicated interest. Limit the teams to 6, the other 6 people get to play drivers.

That just confuses me. I imagined WGP2 to simply be the WGPC but far less complicated, on a smaller scale, and more easily accessible to people that haven't roleplayed as much. Why would there be six people who do teams and another six for drivers? Like how it is in the WGPC, you should be able to play a team and drivers (no more than two, for now) freely.

No I meant, ideally; there is 12 people who have indicated interest. Limit the teams to 6, the other 6 people get to play drivers.

Or, 6 teams take part in WGP2, 6 teams take part in WGP3, with the top 2 teams of WGP3 promoted to WGP2 and the bottom 2 teams of WGP2 relegated to WGP3. It could've happened between Formula 1 and GP2.

While not the worst idea ever, WGP3 doesn't exist yet, and probably never will.

Currently in WGPC team signups are open, but only 10-13 are selected for the final field. In previous seasons, team signups were done by invitation only. Good RPers from previous seasons were offered teams and, rarely, good RPers from elsewhere on NS Sports were given opportunities to run teams. I may use the invitational method for WGPC16 if WGP2 is a success. Offers of a team would remain open to historically important teams and users who may not have RP'd so heavily in recent editions (Nekoni carried the WGPC through its less popular years, Liventia was a former host, while Vilita and Hodori are the foremost petrol-heads on the forum. Naturally I'd usually want to select McPahan too, though this isn't always a certainty.) for the respective users to accept or pass, with the other slots being taken by the best RPers. There's a backbone of around 7/8 users currently RPing the WGPC and they would all be offered invitations to form teams next season. We'll see what the score is come the end of the year.

I'm saying this because I'd see WGP2 as a feeder to the WGPC both OOCly and ICly. Teams who RP well in the WGP2 would have a very good chance of being invited to form a team in the next WGPC season. A newcomer to WGP2 who does well may well be offered a team despite not taking part in the current WGPC season.

ICly I don't see a reason why a driver would race in WGPC and then, immediately after, race in WGP2. It could happen the other way round, and you could have drivers from a few seasons ago trying to find their feet again in the second division before a possible call-up to the big leagues, but it ICly wouldn't make sense for, say, someone like Fernando Alonso to finish an F1 season and then try his hand at Formula 3.

I think it's also important to note that, for most users, having one driver is more than enough. RPing a team takes time and effort and involves co-RPing skills with one or more other users. It's not for the faint of heart.

I don't think there should be a hard limit on WGP2 team entries for now, simply because you can't really know how popular any given season/event is going to be. There have been times when I've had about 14/15 credible teams enter WGPC but ended up with only 10 final entrants and/or 7 or 8 actively participating teams. I doubt there'd be a demand for a further 'division three' of racing.

If there's anything I'd recommend keeping to a low number it's the amount of race weekends and events. 8 races would be enough for a first season, with one pre-season test and one mid-season test. You don't want to burn yourself out. There's a reason I only did one fifteen-race season in the past, and why more than one previous WGPC edition ended prematurely.

You, sir, have wonderful thinking. I completely understand that relegation doesn't really make sense, but at the moment I feel it's alright for Jean because of his very subpar performance, which isn't enough to warrant a position in the WGPC. If he finds better form in the last four races, I'd probably reconsider.

As for everything else, it'd make sense that this division is smaller. Maybe 10 teams can sign, with an eleventh works team, and eight races with two tests, one pre-season and one mid-season, run biweekly.

EDIT: As for timing, the signup phase would begin not long after the close of the current WGPC season (1-2 weeks, probably) with the signup phase ending once there's enough people and tracks signed up, and the first pre-season test, which teams must have secured drivers by, will come about a month after the negotiation phase begins. After that, races would be run biweekly.

[Barunia]

I don't think there should be a hard limit on WGP2 team entries for now, simply because you can't really know how popular any given season/event is going to be. There have been times when I've had about 14/15 credible teams enter WGPC but ended up with only 10 final entrants and/or 7 or 8 actively participating teams. I doubt there'd be a demand for a further 'division three' of racing.

If there's anything I'd recommend keeping to a low number it's the amount of race weekends and events. 8 races would be enough for a first season, with one pre-season test and one mid-season test. You don't want to burn yourself out. There's a reason I only did one fifteen-race season in the past, and why more than one previous WGPC edition ended prematurely.

You, sir, have wonderful thinking. I completely understand that relegation doesn't really make sense, but at the moment I feel it's alright for Jean because of his very subpar performance, which isn't enough to warrant a position in the WGPC. If he finds better form in the last four races, I'd probably reconsider.

As for everything else, it'd make sense that this division is smaller. Maybe 10 teams can sign, with an eleventh works team, and eight races with two tests, one pre-season and one mid-season, run biweekly.

Audio can correct me if I'm wrong, but I have the feeling he was suggesting that the WGP2 should be larger than WGPC. Then WGP2 becomes, in essence, a qualifier for WGPC, an all-comers tournament from which the best RPers are invited to participate in the Championship. Limiting the numbers here makes little sense, except for an IC case that we have a limited number of vehicles we can cram onto a track. But we should be aiming to hit that IC limit, not cut off well below it.

[Esmerel]

Might I suggest that if you fielded a team in WGPC season 15, you could participate in WGP2, just with a different team? Like, your big team could be affiliated with your WGP2 team, but it can't be that team. For example, instead of sending Scuderia Grotti to compete in WGP2, it will remain a possibility for the WGPC and instead provide funding and engines for a smaller team, Scuderia Due Turismo.

And perhaps we could field a lot of teams, but we'll have to wait and see how many sign up.

[Lisander]

Teams
Between 10 and 12.
2 drivers to each one, a test driver on standby is optional, and free agents can be called at any moment. 20 to 24 drivers are enough. More than it, go to ovals. Probably, in the last races, we'll have only 6 or 7 drivers posting. Be realist. This is still a prospect, you shouldn't go that crazy. No need to say, WGP3 is not needed, neither makes sense.

Circuits
I'll be taking up the idea of Audio here. Up to 8. We don't need a long series. Long series are usually boring. Even more for newbies who will probably get bored after round 2 or 3. 250 Km races are a good distance.

Levels
More importance to drivers than cars in the levels. Something like 75% driver and 25% car. I believe this would attract more nations to RP, even if not Petrolheads. It doesn't need to be a one-make series, but I think we should have cars with similar specs, with no great deviations. If I find myself able to scorinate this, I'll consult Audioslavia about WGPC system and how it can be worked to fit WGP2.

WGPC team reserves
I think this should be a feeder series, not a B Teams competition. Creativity in names of teams should be encouraged. Even if I join WGP2 with Ludi Wiel and Bastian Alcaraz, two drivers known by their Heroes' links, I won't name it "Bitten Heroes Reserves". Same for "promotion and relegation", forget it. This is auto racing, not football.

The Brand Identity
Talking as a Graphic Designer: We should follow the guidelines of current WGPC. If Audio decides to change WGPC Brands, we follow, as a Feeder series. Until that, we should stick to an identity similar to WGPC 15. If WGPC have to modify their branding to follow its feeder championship, what is the principal series? I like the Esmerel idea with the red two.

[Esmerel]

Teams
Between 10 and 12.
2 drivers to each one, a test driver on standby is optional, and free agents can be called at any moment. 20 to 24 drivers are enough. More than it, go to ovals. Probably, in the last races, we'll have only 6 or 7 drivers posting. Be realist. This is still a prospect, you shouldn't go that crazy. No need to say, WGP3 is not needed, neither makes sense.

Circuits
I'll be taking up the idea of Audio here. Up to 8. We don't need a long series. Long series are usually boring. Even more for newbies who will probably get bored after round 2 or 3. 250 Km races are a good distance.

Levels
More importance to drivers than cars in the levels. Something like 75% driver and 25% car. I believe this would attract more nations to RP, even if not Petrolheads. It doesn't need to be a one-make series, but I think we should have cars with similar specs, with no great deviations. If I find myself able to scorinate this, I'll consult Audioslavia about WGPC system and how it can be worked to fit WGP2.

WGPC team reserves
I think this should be a feeder series, not a B Teams competition. Creativity in names of teams should be encouraged. Even if I join WGP2 with Ludi Wiel and Bastian Alcaraz, two drivers known by their Heroes' links, I won't name it "Bitten Heroes Reserves". Same for "promotion and relegation", forget it. This is auto racing, not football.

The Brand Identity
Talking as a Graphic Designer: We should follow the guidelines of current WGPC. If Audio decides to change WGPC Brands, we follow, as a Feeder series. Until that, we should stick to an identity similar to WGPC 15. If WGPC have to modify their branding to follow its feeder championship, what is the principal series? I like the Esmerel idea with the red two.

This pretty much sums up what WGP2 should be. We still have to discuss the intricacies, such as minor RP details like allowing refueling, et cetera, but in a nutshell, this is WGP2. And related to a "not B team," Due Turismo is supplied with Grotti engines and given support from them, but it's not a B team. Just to clarify.

EDIT: I remember in Season 14 driver statistics could add up to no more than six (meaning a balanced setup would be 2-2-2) rather than 12. To keep it balanced, we could lower the stat threshold to six, or even lower.

[The Redvale]

I think I'm going to drop out of this. There's a chance that I'll still participate, there's also a chance that I'll take my own idea that I had originally and turn it into a WTCC equivalent. I did come up with the idea earlier but it seems that most other users prefer to take things in a different direction than what I was thinking, which would have been more of a true second division than something like this.

[Lockheed (Ancient)]

I'd be interested in entering 2 drivers.

I'll just follow along for now while you guys plan on the details.

[Esmerel]

I know that this might not be the best question to ask, but just to make sure, who is actually interested in taking part in WGP2? Because the numbers right now don't seem high.