NationStates

Tenburg wrote:Roy Halladay is gone and as a Phillies fan I'm heartbroken. He was tops both on and off the mound.

Tenburg wrote:Roy Halladay is gone and as a Phillies fan I'm heartbroken. He was tops both on and off the mound.

West Pocono wrote:Time to get heading to voting booth, Council members. If you are not sure if you are a Council member, then check your TG box. If you get a TG from West Pocono soon after this post, you are a member. If you don't, then you are not!

Send your votes to my puppet West Pocono only. Do not send them to Newmanistan.

First, we have the vote for Council membership. Three nations are up for consideration, so for each one, please vote yes if you are in favor of them joining the council; no if you are not in favor; or abstain if you are unsure or do not otherwise want to make a yes or no vote on them. These nations are:

Equestrian States
New Danican
Tenburg

Secondly, we have the vote for the Hall of Fame. There is one nation to consider:

Equestrian States.

(This vote takes into consideration Lycrabon’s request to not be considered after WBC 42).

Finally, we have had a large proposal from Ethane. After discussion in the forum, “Amendment Two” is hereby brought to a vote. Please vote yes, no, or abstain. The content of this amendment is under the spoiler.

(Amendment Two)
Article IX: Hall of Fame (mix of change and amendment)
[...]
Section Two: There are three official (change of language) ways to reach the Hall of Fame.

2.1: A nation can enter the Hall of Fame through reaching 20 points on a scale which awards points based on previous performances. If a nation reaches 20 points on this scale, there is no need for a Council vote on this nation as they are automatically inducted into the Hall of Fame. (Cleaning up of language + format)

2.1.1 The scale referred to in Section 2.1 provides points towards a nation's Hall of Fame tally is as follows:
- 6 points per championship win
- 4 points for a runner-up position
- 2 points for third place
- 1 point for fourth place
- 3 points for hosting
- 4 points for a full term as Council President. By full cycle, the Constitution means a period of 3 World Baseball Classics.
- 2 points for partial term as Council President. By partial term, the Constitution means more than 1 but less than 3 World Baseball Classics.

2.2: A nation can enter the Hall of Fame if their entrance is approved by a quorum of Council members, and the nation has reached the requirements as listed below. By quorum the Constitution means one more than half the current voting membership of the Council. (cleaning up of language)

2.2.1 The user behind a nation must have participated in a minimum of 10 World Baseball Classics.
2.2.2 The nation must have acquired a minimum of 10 points in the Hall of Fame tally as shown in Section 2.1.1

2.3: If a nation is denied entry into the Hall of Fame through a quorum of voters, then their entrance may be looked upon again after said nation has participated in a further 5 World Baseball Classics, eg. 15/20/25 WBCs, or if a Council member suggests a nation with over 10 points be added to the Hall of Fame, and that suggestion is seconded by another Council member once one of the requirements in Section 2.4 have been met. This is then put to a vote after the WBC following. (addition of nomination as a different way to reach the Hall of Fame if denied by Council at large the first time without having to participate in another 5 WBCs - further details outlined tomorrow as per requirements to proceed with this requirement - should we consider putting a limit on entry attempts into the HoF?)

2.4: If a nation loses a vote on their entry into the Hall of Fame, then said nation cannot be proposed for entry into the Hall of Fame until either
2.4.1 They reach 20 points on the Hall of Fame tally and are automatically inducted into the Hall of Fame.
2.4.2 A period of 10 World Baseball Classics has passed. If 10 WBCs does pass, then the process outlined in 2.3 may be completed again. (clarifies what happens in the case of a denied vote on entry into the Hall of Fame)

2.5: A CTE - Ceased-to-Exist - nation can enter the Hall of Fame through nomination under exceptional circumstances. A Council Member, or a nation which participated in the World Baseball Classic between editions 1-20, may nominate a nation that has between 10 and 20 points and has not participated in the minimum of 10 World Baseball Classics outlined in Section 2.4. After a nation has received nomination, the nomination must be seconded by another nation fitting within the restrictions listed above. (This means that the nomination of a nation to enter the Hall of Fame must pass a more stringent test than nomination by 1 user to be put to a vote. Means the Council avoids unnecessary nomination votes. Also outlines allowance of WBC entrants in WBC 1-20 to nominate and vote, rather than just Council members.) If the nation reaches the nomination benchmark, then the entry of the nation into the Hall of Fame is put to a vote at the end of the following World Baseball Classic. If the nation receives a majority of votes from nations which fit the restrictions above, then said the nation is inducted into the Hall of Fame. (allows WBC 1-20 entrants to vote on the nomination of CTE nations - focused on earlier nations - to the Hall of Fame)
2.5.1 By 'exceptional circumstances', we mean a circumstance in which a nation which fits the restrictions above believes that a previous user, who made a significant contribution to the World Baseball Classic and doesn't reach the Hall of Fame requirements other than the 10 points on the tally, should be inducted into the Hall of Fame. (outlines what is meant by exceptional circumstance)
2.5.2 This process is only valid until World Baseball Classic 50. (puts a time limit on the process so that this is only used as a way of inducting older, influential nations into the WBC. Prevents this being used as a loophole, and means that all future nominees for the Hall of Fame after WBC50 would have committed to the WBC, not only through RP which allowed them to win, but also through time commitment (10 WBCs to show that they have been influential and involved in the History of the WBC)).

Section Three: There can only be one nation in the Hall of Fame per user - by 'user', we mean owner of one or more nations on NationStates. (cleaning up of language and defining 'user')

Section Four: Votes on entrance into the Hall of Fame will take place at the end of the following World Baseball Classic after they have been nominated. All automatic inductions into the Hall of Fame will also be after the World Baseball Classic in which they meet the requirements for entry. (sets and clarifies specific time for Hall of Fame events - cleaning up of language).

Section Five: A nation that has Ceased to Exist (hereby referred to as CTE) may still be admitted into the Hall of Fame through the process outlined in Section 2.5 if they had enough points to qualify for the Hall of Fame before they CTE. (little change)

Section Nine becomes Section Six. (change of Section numbers)

Section Seven: A nation held in World Baseball Classic mythology or held in high-esteem by the community, but does not reach any of the requirements for entry into the Hall of Fame, may be granted unofficial honorary membership of the HoF. This does not mean they are in the Hall of Fame officially but are noted as an influential nation in World Baseball Classic History within the HoF.
7.1 To be granted honorary membership, a nation only has to meet the requirements below.
7.1.1 A nation under consideration for an honorary Hall of Fame membership must have entered in at least 1 World Baseball Classic.
7.1.2 The nation must be nominated by a Council Member and then seconded by another Council Member. The nation must then be voted upon by the whole council and reach a quorum (50%+1).
7.1.3 If a nation is not admitted to the Hall of Fame as an honourary partial-member upon the first vote, then they may not be nominated for entry again.
7.2 This measure may be used for any main nation (by 'main', the Constitution means primary nation of a 'user').
7.3 You cannot be an honorary Hall of Fame member and a full Hall of Fame member.
7.4 The Honorary list is to be used for nations which will not reach the requirements for entry into the Hall of Fame. Therefore, if you enter the honorary Hall of Fame, you cannot be inducted on to the full Hall of Fame list through any other method than that listed in Section 2.1.
7.4.1 A non-CTE nation must provide permission if being nominated to the honorary Hall of Fame list, to prevent the abuse of the list.
7.4.2 If a nation is CTE upon induction into the honorary Hall of Fame list and returns to the WBC after entry, then they may request withdrawal from the honorary Hall of Fame list. (proper amendment - this limited loophole allows nations which the Council wish to recognise as playing an important or even mythological role in the History of the WBC without actually placing them in the Hall of Fame itself. Effectively creates a semi-separate list to the Hall of Fame as a sort of 'honorary member'. This allows nations such as The Great Pond, who do not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame itself but have played an important role in the WBC's history, to be placed in a position of recognition. This also somewhat makes up for the placing of a time limit upon the method of entry outlined in section 2.5, as it allows for nations which did reach between 10 and 20 points but didn't participate in 10 WBCs to be placed in a position of recognition - they don't necessarily deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but deserve to be recognised in WBC history. Would be happy to have this called something like the 'Wall of Recognition' or something along those lines instead of alluding to the idea they are semi-in the Hall of Fame. If this idea is also unpopular, I would also be happy to have this as a separate amendment to the rest of the change/amendment, in order to allow the rest of it to pass if there is more consensus on everything without this).

Section Eight: To enter the Hall of Fame, a nation must have not been impeached and then removed from the Council as outlined in Article IV. (Prevents those who have been impeached and removed from the Council to be entered into the Hall of Fame - the HoF is about honour in the WBC's history, and being impeached and removed is anything but honourable.)

Send your vote to West Pocono by 8pm EST, on Wednesday the 15th. (Council members only)

Ethane wrote:I didn't think anyone seconded my proposal?
Also, I withdrew about 3/4 of that amendment, so the amendment up for vote is wholly outdated.

Ethane wrote:I'm going to separate out the second amendment into 2 parts then. The extra Wall of Recognition-style thing will be a separate amendment (Amendment 4, if you will).

I will withdraw Amendments 1 and 3 (as it has been highlighted by multiple people that they are unneeded).

Amendment 2 will effectively be all that is remaining of the amendment bar the Wall of Recognition part (honorary Hall of Fame).

I believe that the third way into the HoF should be a time-limited feature, which is why I am still pushing ahead with this amendment. Also, nations who have been impeached should not be allowed to enter the HoF in my opinion. Continue as you were.

Ethane wrote:

Frenline Delpha wrote:I do not agree with Super Llamaland's proposal, and would pretty much parrot the same sentiment expressed already in this thread.

On Ethane's proposal, it's a hit-or-miss with it. I don't have any particular problems with Amendment 1 and 3. Section 2 of Article IX is fine, but then there's that problem with 2.3 and 2.4, given that there's a contradiction in the language of those two articles. "after said nation has participated in a further 5 World Baseball Classics" and "A period of 10 World Baseball Classics has passed," respectively. I'm wondering what Ethane meant here, as these two articles clearly contradict each other. And then, like others, I have a problem with allowing participants of WBC 1-20 to vote, as I believe this reduces the point of the council somewhat. The voting and nomination of proposed hall of famers is something should be earned, and just participating in the earlier WBCs isn't what I call earning that privilege. What makes the participants of WBC 1-20 more important than the participants of 21-40? If a participant of WBC 1-20 wants to vote for the HOF, they should have to earn it just like everyone else has. Then there's that whole WBC 50 remark, which I for the life of me don't understand. What loophole does the WBC 50 restriction close, in particular? The unofficial honorary HOF is an odd idea, but not one I am completely opposed to, honestly. No problems there. And then there's that Section VIII... hmm. I honestly believe that if someone has earned the right to be in the hall of fame, they should not be denied entry unless the crime they committed was egregious in a way yet to be seen in the WBC.

I withdrew the honorary HoF idea because of a general bad reaction towards it. Apparently it was seen as me trying to get The Great Pond into the HoF, which I am opposed to. If there is enough support outside the context of The Great Pond then that's great, but otherwise it's out.

With 2.3 and 2.4, the key distinction is that with the 5 WBC's, the nation is participating in the WBC whereas with the latter 10 WCs, that is only for CTE nations (so not participating in the WBC at the time).
I'm happy to remove the 1-20 voting rights, but I believe that the 3rd way into the HoF is too easy to reach, and is primarily to enter older nations which didn't reach 20 in but maybe should have been in the HoF. Happy to remove this as well if needed, but I would prefer a time limit on the 3rd way into the Hall of Fame.
Section 9 - I still think impeached nations should not be allowed to enter the HoF. If someone earns the right to be in the Hall of Fame, then they should be in the Hall of Fame. However, I believe being impeached and removed from the Council should mean you cannot earn the right to enter the HoF. Impeachments are clearly rare, so this wouldn't really affect many nations at all.

Newmanistan wrote:

Ethane wrote:I didn't think anyone seconded my proposal?
Also, I withdrew about 3/4 of that amendment, so the amendment up for vote is wholly outdated.

Last I saw, you wanted to keep Amendment 2, which is what I posted. FWIW, I thought Maklohi Vai's response showed enough support for it to move it forward.

Tenburg wrote:Wow holy shit! I'm honored, thank you.

Schiltzberg wrote:Equestrian States goes green on the HOF spreadsheet. Congrats!

Filindostan wrote:

Schiltzberg wrote:Equestrian States goes green on the HOF spreadsheet. Congrats!

Purple indicates inactive status right? Sangti/TRB/New Sangti participated last WBC.

Sorry for different user, using mobile at the moment.

Lycrabon wrote:Yellow means what then?

Newmanistan wrote:Just to throw this out there: I am thinking about opening signups for WBC 42 on approximately Jan 10th.

St Saratoga wrote:Congrats to the new council and also Congrats to Equestrian State for HOF!

Newmanistan wrote:Just to throw this out there: I am thinking about opening signups for WBC 42 on approximately Jan 10th.