World Baseball Classic Discussion Thread

[Frenline Delpha]

Has it been six weeks yet?

I'd say we should open sign-ups halfway through qualifying so we can start when the world cup is in its final stages.

[Free Republics]

Has it been six weeks yet?

I'd say we should open sign-ups halfway through qualifying so we can start when the world cup is in its final stages.

I think it'd be ideal to try to have signups open during the RL WBC next month.

[Frenline Delpha]

I'd say we should open sign-ups halfway through qualifying so we can start when the world cup is in its final stages.

I think it'd be ideal to try to have signups open during the RL WBC next month.

That's next month? Sweet. I'll have to see if I get any of the games.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Oh, we are doing this again? Yay!

[Schiltzberg]

I'd say we should open sign-ups halfway through qualifying so we can start when the world cup is in its final stages.

I think it'd be ideal to try to have signups open during the RL WBC next month.

That would be cool. The RL WBC starts on March 6, so if we also want to start on that day, I should probably still wait a couple weeks to open sign-ups, right? Sign-ups are generally open for about two weeks or so, as I recall.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Hold on... are we starting signups the first day of the tournament, or the tournament itself starts then? The latter would obviously be at the host's discretion when exactly to start, but to achieve that we'd need to open signups about a month before for time for bids, signups, Vote, and everything thread. If signups will be open during the tournament, I'd start them a few days before just to build anticipation.

Though it might be better to start signups a week before the RL tournament starts or so, to hopefully preempt some n00b from saying "Haha I had this totally original idea to have a World Baseball Classic since the real one starts in a few days, pls join guys!!!!!"

[Schiltzberg]

Hold on... are we starting signups the first day of the tournament, or the tournament itself starts then? The latter would obviously be at the host's discretion when exactly to start, but to achieve that we'd need to open signups about a month before for time for bids, signups, Vote, and everything thread. If signups will be open during the tournament, I'd start them a few days before just to build anticipation.

Though it might be better to start signups a week before the RL tournament starts or so, to hopefully preempt some n00b from saying "Haha I had this totally original idea to have a World Baseball Classic since the real one starts in a few days, pls join guys!!!!!"

I was thinking of having it start about the time of the tournament, but maybe that is too soon.

[Maklohi Vai]

Hold on... are we starting signups the first day of the tournament, or the tournament itself starts then? The latter would obviously be at the host's discretion when exactly to start, but to achieve that we'd need to open signups about a month before for time for bids, signups, Vote, and everything thread. If signups will be open during the tournament, I'd start them a few days before just to build anticipation.

Though it might be better to start signups a week before the RL tournament starts or so, to hopefully preempt some n00b from saying "Haha I had this totally original idea to have a World Baseball Classic since the real one starts in a few days, pls join guys!!!!!"

I agree with this: start them up a little bit before.

[Schiltzberg]

Hold on... are we starting signups the first day of the tournament, or the tournament itself starts then? The latter would obviously be at the host's discretion when exactly to start, but to achieve that we'd need to open signups about a month before for time for bids, signups, Vote, and everything thread. If signups will be open during the tournament, I'd start them a few days before just to build anticipation.

Though it might be better to start signups a week before the RL tournament starts or so, to hopefully preempt some n00b from saying "Haha I had this totally original idea to have a World Baseball Classic since the real one starts in a few days, pls join guys!!!!!"

I agree with this: start them up a little bit before.

That sounds good.

[Newmanistan]

hopefully preempt some n00b from saying "Haha I had this totally original idea to have a World Baseball Classic since the real one starts in a few days, pls join guys!!!!!"

That'll happen anyway, and it will happen even with the signup thread being on the top of the first page.

[Frenline Delpha]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1864 ... ra-innings

Interesting. So, how would everyone feel if I implemented this into my bid? I think it could lead to some interesting RPs.

[Newmanistan]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18648532/mlb-test-rule-change-minor-leagues-focusing-extra-innings

Interesting. So, how would everyone feel if I implemented this into my bid? I think it could lead to some interesting RPs.

ICly, the Rockets would love this. The way our roster is constructed with a small bullpen and more bench players, it would take away an area in which our nation was most vulnerable, or seriously reduce our vulnerability. RP-wise, it would really play into our nation's hands. Also, with our free-wheeling nature a la Vince Coleman and Rickey Henderson, don't be surprised if that soon becomes an automatic runner who just stole third.

OOCly, it would not influence my vote one way or the other on anyone's host bid.

Using the practice in real life baseball? Not a fan.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18648532/mlb-test-rule-change-minor-leagues-focusing-extra-innings

Interesting. So, how would everyone feel if I implemented this into my bid? I think it could lead to some interesting RPs.

I wouldn't mind, consdering a similar rule is used in the RL WBC, provided you adjusted the scorinator to reflect it. But I don't even know if it's technically feasible to have different scoring probabilities in extra innings versus regulation. If you're using the standard scorinator, that wouldn't make sense with the rule change.

OOC-ly, I can't stand the rule. But I also think penalty kicks are a terrible way to decide a soccer match, and you don't see me calling for unlimited overtimes in the NSWC. That's the rule, whether I like it or not.

[Ethane]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18648532/mlb-test-rule-change-minor-leagues-focusing-extra-innings

Interesting. So, how would everyone feel if I implemented this into my bid? I think it could lead to some interesting RPs.

It won't affect my vote because I have no idea what that article is on about

[Saintland]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18648532/mlb-test-rule-change-minor-leagues-focusing-extra-innings

Interesting. So, how would everyone feel if I implemented this into my bid? I think it could lead to some interesting RPs.

I wouldn't mind, consdering a similar rule is used in the RL WBC, provided you adjusted the scorinator to reflect it. But I don't even know if it's technically feasible to have different scoring probabilities in extra innings versus regulation. If you're using the standard scorinator, that wouldn't make sense with the rule change.

OOC-ly, I can't stand the rule. But I also think penalty kicks are a terrible way to decide a soccer match, and you don't see me calling for unlimited overtimes in the NSWC. That's the rule, whether I like it or not.

I share Greg's view of that particular rule (IIRC, it was introduced at the Beijing Olympics because whatever irrelevant organization is supposedly the "international governing body" for baseball was trying to convince the IOC not to kick baseball and softball out of the Olympics), though it probably wouldn't affect my vote one way or the other (except, possibly, as a tiebreaker of last resort).

As for adjusting the scorinator to reflect it, that would likely require a completely new scorinator. That's a project that I'm going to tackle eventually (I think my views regarding the flaws of the various baseball scorinators are well-known), but probably not until I actually decide to bid for another WBC. I can definitely include separate constants for scoring probability in regulation VS extra innings.

[Schiltzberg]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18648532/mlb-test-rule-change-minor-leagues-focusing-extra-innings

Interesting. So, how would everyone feel if I implemented this into my bid? I think it could lead to some interesting RPs.

Ah, that made me cringe when I read that article. I wouldn't mind it if we used it here, but in MLB? No, no, no.

[Nova Anglicana]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18648532/mlb-test-rule-change-minor-leagues-focusing-extra-innings

Interesting. So, how would everyone feel if I implemented this into my bid? I think it could lead to some interesting RPs.

I am firmly against this both OOCly and ICly. "Texas tiebreaker" or whatever is gimmicky and I think the last time I saw it in an actual baseball game was Little League. It doesn't actually cut down on the length of games, because it makes it easier to score, so the game can continue on and on in extra innings. I wouldn't like to see this in international play or in MLB, because I think it's a transparent play for attention that compromises the way the game is played.

Now, as to whether or not we should use this in NS, I would oppose it, but if it were the judgment of the Council that we should incorporate this into future bids, then I would accept that outcome. I also agree with others that have expressed the opinion that should we implement it, a new scorinator would be required.

Sorry if I come off a little strong here. I hold no personal animus against anyone who supports this or wants to use it in their bid. It's a bit like the DH. I really don't like it, but am willing to accept it if a governing body decides so.

EDIT: It also wouldn't affect my vote unless it was literally the only difference. Other formatting, the host(s), etc. would play far more into my decision than using this rule.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18648532/mlb-test-rule-change-minor-leagues-focusing-extra-innings

Interesting. So, how would everyone feel if I implemented this into my bid? I think it could lead to some interesting RPs.

I am firmly against this both OOCly and ICly. "Texas tiebreaker" or whatever is gimmicky and I think the last time I saw it in an actual baseball game was Little League. It doesn't actually cut down on the length of games, because it makes it easier to score, so the game can continue on and on in extra innings. I wouldn't like to see this in international play or in MLB, because I think it's a transparent play for attention that compromises the way the game is played.

Now, as to whether or not we should use this in NS, I would oppose it, but if it were the judgment of the Council that we should incorporate this into future bids, then I would accept that outcome. I also agree with others that have expressed the opinion that should we implement it, a new scorinator would be required.

Sorry if I come off a little strong here. I hold no personal animus against anyone who supports this or wants to use it in their bid. It's a bit like the DH. I really don't like it, but am willing to accept it if a governing body decides so.

EDIT: It also wouldn't affect my vote unless it was literally the only difference. Other formatting, the host(s), etc. would play far more into my decision than using this rule.

I thought Texas tiebreaker was football. Anyway, I don't necessarily think we should be saying "Oh, it's a terrible rule, so we shouldn't use it even though it's the rule." I think penalty shootouts are trrrible and they should play unlimited sudden death overtime until someone scores, but unless FIFA actually listens to me, I would never vote for a bid that used that rule because it's not actually the rule.

Now, in a case where international and domestic have different rules, I think we can use either, similar to hockey, where bids have variously used the NHL postseason rules (play until someone scores) and the international rules with shootouts. I've supported both, and could support either one here as well provided we had a scorinator that reflected it. But if there's not an accurate scorinator, as I said, I wouldn't support I'm doing it anyway.

I'd also question why we were using an experimental minor league rule (runner on second) instead of the international rule (first and second) since if we want to use international rules, that's what we should do. Not some rule that's used in two low-minor league leagues.

Edit: They're apparently using this rule in the WBC as well instead of the international one. Never mind the last part.

[Schiltzberg]

Okay, this shows just how pathetic the real WBC is. Only one (yes, just one) of the players on the Israeli team is actually from Israel (Shlomo Lipetz). All of the other players on the roster are from the United States and happen to be Jewish, so they were allowed to identify themselves as Israeli to join the WBC. This is kind of laughable actually. There is also one coach who is actually from Israel, but all of the other coaches are American too.

[Schiltzberg]

The RL WBC is so terrible in so many ways. Here is what I can think of just off the top of my head.

1. One-game series. This is baseball! Games shouldn't be decided by one-game series. Even the championship is decided by one game! Infidels!
2. Designated hitter rule is imposed. What is this nonsense? I guess maybe they want to protect the pitchers so that they don't get injured in games that don't really mean anything, but then again, that shows just how insignificant the tournament is.
3. There are only sixteen teams. There really aren't enough countries into baseball to make the WBC anywhere near as successful as the World Cup for example.
4. Teams are not made up of people actually from the country that they represent. As stated with the Israel thing, this just shows how much of a joke the tournament is. About half of the teams have a U.S. born majority on their active roster.
5. Twenty-eight man roster. What the fuck?
6. The United States doesn't win. I'm sorry, but it has to be pointed out. There have been three WBCs and the United States' best place was fourth? What? I understand that they won't win every time, but when it comes to baseball, that is an American sport. It makes sense that Japan and DR would do well also, but for the US to just bomb every time makes no sense.
7. It is DURING THE MLB SEASON. What the hell? You have the tournament for all of the best baseball players when the most highly esteemed baseball league in the world is in its Spring Training? That is just bad planning.
8. Nobody watches. It is a big joke.

I will say that it did inspire the NS WBC, and in the NS world, the WBC is awesome, so that is good.

[Maklohi Vai]

The RL WBC is so terrible in so many ways. Here is what I can think of just off the top of my head.

1. One-game series. This is baseball! Games shouldn't be decided by one-game series. Even the championship is decided by one game! Infidels!
2. Designated hitter rule is imposed. What is this nonsense? I guess maybe they want to protect the pitchers so that they don't get injured in games that don't really mean anything, but then again, that shows just how insignificant the tournament is.
3. There are only sixteen teams. There really aren't enough countries into baseball to make the WBC anywhere near as successful as the World Cup for example.
4. Teams are not made up of people actually from the country that they represent. As stated with the Israel thing, this just shows how much of a joke the tournament is. About half of the teams have a U.S. born majority on their active roster.
5. Twenty-eight man roster. What the fuck?
6. The United States doesn't win. I'm sorry, but it has to be pointed out. There have been three WBCs and the United States' best place was fourth? What? I understand that they won't win every time, but when it comes to baseball, that is an American sport. It makes sense that Japan and DR would do well also, but for the US to just bomb every time makes no sense.
7. It is DURING THE MLB SEASON. What the hell? You have the tournament for all of the best baseball players when the most highly esteemed baseball league in the world is in its Spring Training? That is just bad planning.
8. Nobody watches. It is a big joke.

I will say that it did inspire the NS WBC, and in the NS world, the WBC is awesome, so that is good.

I read some of these criticisms as being very American-centric. This isn't an indictment of you in any way, but I do want to make sure the RL WBC isn't unfairly maligned.

2: I hate the DH as much as any self-respecting NL fan, but it's the norm elsewhere.
3: The point of the WBC is to crown a champion, sure, but really it's also meant to be a vehicle for the sport to enter new grounds. The target of competition isn't the US, or the DR, or Japan, per se, but it's countries like Australia, which has a burgeoning Little League program but little professional talent, who are the real targets. Having the tournament be 16 teams is vital for getting all of those countries in.
4. Israel is kind of a special exception, because of their laws regarding Israeli status for the Jewish diaspora. Also, consider this in the context of other international sports: rules are pretty damn lax for declaring oneself to be a representative of another country's sports teams. If you take more general issue with that, go ahead, but it's unfair to applies that solely to the WBC.
6. It's a damned good thing that the USA doesn't win every time. The US doesn't make a point of actually getting its best players out there, only some of them choose to join. This is a much bigger deal in other countries, and I also refer back to point 3: part of the mission of this tournament is to expand the game.
7. Eh, spring training isn't the season. There's a big difference, I imagine. Also, this affects a lot of people, absolutely, but for the preponderance teams without many players in the MLB, it's no inconvenience.
8. I think the real concern with viewership is in the emerging markets, not the established markets, unless the WBC is grasping for money and needs even more American or Japanese TV revenue (which I don't think it does).

[Schiltzberg]

The RL WBC is so terrible in so many ways. Here is what I can think of just off the top of my head.

1. One-game series. This is baseball! Games shouldn't be decided by one-game series. Even the championship is decided by one game! Infidels!
2. Designated hitter rule is imposed. What is this nonsense? I guess maybe they want to protect the pitchers so that they don't get injured in games that don't really mean anything, but then again, that shows just how insignificant the tournament is.
3. There are only sixteen teams. There really aren't enough countries into baseball to make the WBC anywhere near as successful as the World Cup for example.
4. Teams are not made up of people actually from the country that they represent. As stated with the Israel thing, this just shows how much of a joke the tournament is. About half of the teams have a U.S. born majority on their active roster.
5. Twenty-eight man roster. What the fuck?
6. The United States doesn't win. I'm sorry, but it has to be pointed out. There have been three WBCs and the United States' best place was fourth? What? I understand that they won't win every time, but when it comes to baseball, that is an American sport. It makes sense that Japan and DR would do well also, but for the US to just bomb every time makes no sense.
7. It is DURING THE MLB SEASON. What the hell? You have the tournament for all of the best baseball players when the most highly esteemed baseball league in the world is in its Spring Training? That is just bad planning.
8. Nobody watches. It is a big joke.

I will say that it did inspire the NS WBC, and in the NS world, the WBC is awesome, so that is good.

I read some of these criticisms as being very American-centric. This isn't an indictment of you in any way, but I do want to make sure the RL WBC isn't unfairly maligned.

2: I hate the DH as much as any self-respecting NL fan, but it's the norm elsewhere.
3: The point of the WBC is to crown a champion, sure, but really it's also meant to be a vehicle for the sport to enter new grounds. The target of competition isn't the US, or the DR, or Japan, per se, but it's countries like Australia, which has a burgeoning Little League program but little professional talent, who are the real targets. Having the tournament be 16 teams is vital for getting all of those countries in.
4. Israel is kind of a special exception, because of their laws regarding Israeli status for the Jewish diaspora. Also, consider this in the context of other international sports: rules are pretty damn lax for declaring oneself to be a representative of another country's sports teams. If you take more general issue with that, go ahead, but it's unfair to applies that solely to the WBC.
6. It's a damned good thing that the USA doesn't win every time. The US doesn't make a point of actually getting its best players out there, only some of them choose to join. This is a much bigger deal in other countries, and I also refer back to point 3: part of the mission of this tournament is to expand the game.
7. Eh, spring training isn't the season. There's a big difference, I imagine. Also, this affects a lot of people, absolutely, but for the preponderance teams without many players in the MLB, it's no inconvenience.
8. I think the real concern with viewership is in the emerging markets, not the established markets, unless the WBC is grasping for money and needs even more American or Japanese TV revenue (which I don't think it does).

I do not think that it accurately shows how baseball is meant to be played is what I am trying to say. Maybe that sounds very American-centric, but that is because it is, because baseball is the most American-centric sport in the world. While it is true that it exists in other countries, and it is unfair to overlook that, it is definitely not as evenly spread on a worldwide scale as a sport like soccer, and because of this, it seems like whenever international baseball happens, it is a flop, whether it be the WBC or the Olympics. International baseball simply does not work in real life.

[Drawkland]

Maybe that sounds very American-centric, but that is because it is, because baseball is the most American-centric sport in the world.

I have a pigskin that disagrees with you.

[Schiltzberg]

Maybe that sounds very American-centric, but that is because it is, because baseball is the most American-centric sport in the world.

I have a pigskin that disagrees with you.

Well, there is that, but baseball is the national pastime, even if that statement is kind of outdated. The point being that baseball is a very American sport -- American as in the American continents. Baseball is very popular in the US and also Latinamerica, but the dream of all Latinamerican players is to play in the US for a professional team, so the sport is centered around the United States. It is also moderately popular in East Asia, but mostly in the Americas.

[Maklohi Vai]

I read some of these criticisms as being very American-centric. This isn't an indictment of you in any way, but I do want to make sure the RL WBC isn't unfairly maligned.

2: I hate the DH as much as any self-respecting NL fan, but it's the norm elsewhere.
3: The point of the WBC is to crown a champion, sure, but really it's also meant to be a vehicle for the sport to enter new grounds. The target of competition isn't the US, or the DR, or Japan, per se, but it's countries like Australia, which has a burgeoning Little League program but little professional talent, who are the real targets. Having the tournament be 16 teams is vital for getting all of those countries in.
4. Israel is kind of a special exception, because of their laws regarding Israeli status for the Jewish diaspora. Also, consider this in the context of other international sports: rules are pretty damn lax for declaring oneself to be a representative of another country's sports teams. If you take more general issue with that, go ahead, but it's unfair to applies that solely to the WBC.
6. It's a damned good thing that the USA doesn't win every time. The US doesn't make a point of actually getting its best players out there, only some of them choose to join. This is a much bigger deal in other countries, and I also refer back to point 3: part of the mission of this tournament is to expand the game.
7. Eh, spring training isn't the season. There's a big difference, I imagine. Also, this affects a lot of people, absolutely, but for the preponderance teams without many players in the MLB, it's no inconvenience.
8. I think the real concern with viewership is in the emerging markets, not the established markets, unless the WBC is grasping for money and needs even more American or Japanese TV revenue (which I don't think it does).

I do not think that it accurately shows how baseball is meant to be played is what I am trying to say. Maybe that sounds very American-centric, but that is because it is, because baseball is the most American-centric sport in the world.

And I see that there is room from improvement, for baseball to grow and expand beyond the Americas. Our norms may be not be suitable for other cultures and people who want to play the game, and because I want to encourage that growth, I take issue with denigrating those standards and ways of playing the game.