Qazox/Mangolana Baptism of Fire 44 host bid

[Qazox]

BAPTISM OF FIRE XLIV
Qazox/Mangolana

The nations of Qazox and Mangolana hereby put forth their names for consideration to host the 44th edition of the Baptism of Fire.

Introductions:
Qazox has been around since World Cup 27 and has competed in all but one edition of the World Cup since then. While not one of the better teams in the world, they've been rather persistant by qualifying for 20 World Cups.

Mangolana, while not possessing has much sporting history as Qazox, have been an active member of the NSSports community since joining it.

Experience:
Qazox has hosted over 30 tourneys in various sports including the following: World Baseball Classics 1, 4(took over hosting), 5, 10 and 13; World Cup of Hockey 7 and 14; World Bowls IV & IX; Baptism of Iron III and VIII, NSCAA Tourney II, III (conferences/regionals), The OXEN Cup (12 editions) a football competition; the TOUR de QAZOX, a cycling competition (7 editions), Qazoxian Sports Festival, NS X-Games I/II and Winter X-Games I.

Mangolana has hosted: the 1st and 2nd Market Cup, 2nd World Indoor Soccer Championships, 4th Beach Cup, 11th World Lacrosse Championships, and the soccer for hope tournament.

While neither nation has hosted a Baptism of Fire, Cup of Harmony or World Cup before, both nations do have experience hosting football events.

Scorination: The latest edition of xkoranate will be used by both nations to scorinate the event, as that scorinator is familar for use to both nations. A style modifer of -5 to +5 will be used, to allow the full scale of modifers for all teams. Qazoxian scores will likely be posted around 12:30am EDT while Mangolana will scorinate 8 and 10pm.

Format:
Depending on the final number of teams that qualify for participation in the 44th Baptism of Fire, the teams will be split into 2 regionals, (Qazoxian and Mangolanian) with an even number of teams in each region and an even number of teams in each group if possible. In each group, the teams will play a single-round robin format with, at mininum, the top 2 teams from each group to advance to a single-leg knockout round.

At mininum, 16 teams will advance to the playoffs. If there will be more than 16 teams that will be eligible, the number of teams to qualify for the playoffs will increase to 24 or 32 teams, if necessary.
Tiebreakers to be used:

H2H record
H2H Goal Differential
Overall Goal Differential
Overall Goals For
Playoff game

RP Bonus:
The max points to be earned by any team per day will be 1.00 and the bonus will be culmulative. Each nation that posts a roster will have a roster bonus ranked from .50 to 1.00 that will not degrade at any stage of the event. The RP bonus will be set according to roster and RP bonus prior to each group-stage game. The cumulative RP bonus accumluated by a team at the end of the group stage will be adjusted prior to the knock-out rounds. Only a team's BEST RPing effort each day will count towards the bonus, as we do not want to penalize teams for multiple RPs; but any Post-holding posts such as: Nation XYZ: Tagged will not be counted as an RP. We will emphasize creativity and originality of these newest members of the NSWC community.

We welcome any questions that you might have about this bid, and are eager to bith answert your questions and to hopefully host the 44th Baptism of Fire

[Cote de Platine]

The difference of nearly nine hours in proposed scorination times concerns me greatly.

[Starblaydia]

The difference of nearly nine hours in proposed scorination times concerns me greatly.

Ditto - are you two ever online at the same time in order to discuss things, or is this 9-hour delay not just in scorination, but communication also?

[Newmanistan]

It's actually only 3 hours. (9pm-12:30am)
As long as Mangolana was the first to cutoff for a matchday and THEN Qazox, this doesn't seem that bad.

[Liventia]

Yes, indeed, my bad, I misread 9 pm as 9 am. A three-hour layoff is, granted, not as serious, but still of minor concern somewhat.

[The Babbage Islands]

For the record, the typical difference between result postings in World Cup 56 was on the order of seven hours between Sorthern Northland and Valanora. It had zero impact on the quality of the event.

[Liventia]

For the record, the typical difference between result postings in World Cup 56 was on the order of seven hours between Sorthern Northland and Valanora. It had zero impact on the quality of the event.

This may be true, but that was with trusted hosts. This is not to imply that Qazox and Mangolana are not trusted, but they are far less experienced comparatively and in terms of cohosting especially as compared to SN/ESF.

[Dorian and Sonya]

but they are far less experienced comparatively and in terms of cohosting especially as compared to SN/ESF.

I would differ with you a bit on that one.

Mangolana, as a junior partner may not have tons of experience, but neither did SN until just recently. But that is the whole purpose of junior partners - to gain experience.

As for Qazox. His hosting history rivals almost anyone here in volume, and everyone here also knows his history. He has done a better job of things recently and would be a solid senior partner for this BoF bid. He at least deserves the chance to prove he has put his past behind him.

This bid seems solid and time difference in scorination is not an issue. We have had much greater differences in that respect in the past.

This is not an endorsement of this bid. But as potential hosts both Qazox and Mangolana fit the proper roles.

[Qazox]

The difference of nearly nine hours in proposed scorination times concerns me greatly.

8-10 pm and 12:30 am are only different by 2-4 hours, not 9 hours.

And yes Mangolana will be the first to cutoff and post scores.

Ditto - are you two ever online at the same time in order to discuss things, or is this 9-hour delay not just in scorination, but communication also?

We can be.

[Mangolana]

Ditto - are you two ever online at the same time in order to discuss things, or is this 9-hour delay not just in scorination, but communication also?

We are currently talking of times we will be online, which will most likely give us a 1-2 hour window to sort out problems, if any occur

[Liventia]

but they are far less experienced comparatively and in terms of cohosting especially as compared to SN/ESF.

I would differ with you a bit on that one.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I am sure you are aware that I thoroughly disagree with you on almost all counts.

[Sarzonia]

You know the question is coming, but it must be asked.

Qazox, why do you believe the NS Sports community as a whole and the EWCC in particular should take a chance on voting for your host bid after your extensive history of problems, including outright lies to us?

[Qazox]

You know the question is coming, but it must be asked.

Qazox, why do you believe the NS Sports community as a whole and the EWCC in particular should take a chance on voting for your host bid after your extensive history of problems, including outright lies to us?

Since World Cup 50, which, I believe, was the last real major source of contention that I've had with the NSSports community (if not, please expound on what I've done since then); I have been attempting to be less confrontational with people and to be more of a calming influence. While it is the opinions of the EWCC and others that I will have to rely upon to determine how successful I have been in that regard; I'd like to think that I have shown that I have changed. If those voting do not believe so, then I will have to accept that and try to improve their opinions of me. Showing that I can host one of the main events on NSSports successfully would go a long way to show that I have become an upstanding member of this community, and not a malcontent as I have been in the past.

[Qazox]

Just moving this towards the first page.

[Legalese]

These questions are admittedly quite belated (and coming from someone who admittedly is not quite active, but hopes for the continued success of the World Cup), but still nonetheless quite relevant:

Starting with the less important question: I'm admittedly not a huge fan of style modifiers, and with the BoF, feel very strongly that they're not necessary or even wise, as they add an element that could affect the competition beyond RPing. When it comes to the BoF, I don't believe that anything other than RP scoring (and, of course, the random element) should have an effect on the results generated and posted. Admittedly, the current generation of scorinators minimize (or eliminate) the direct effect on the margin of victory/defeat, which lessens my vehement opposition to style mods, however, a reading of your tiebreaking procedures leads to a potential issue, as Total Goals For is utilized. Since style modifiers directly effect the total goals scored in a match, this incentivizes high-attacking style modifiers over defensive-based style modifiers. Thus, my question to you both is this: What actual purpose do style modifiers actually serve to improve the Baptism of Fire experience, and how (if at all) does this purpose justify the fact that it allows teams to game the system?

Yes, that was the less important question.

The more important question, however, has to do with the RP scoring format. The format described is clear and concise (well, other than that comment about scores being adjusted between the group and knockout stages - though I also don't expect or wish for that to be elaborated on), however, I don't see any indication that it even accounts for the impact that it will have on the results. When coming up with the scoring system, did you consider the effect it would have on the odds of winning? If so, can you give us an idea of how much that effect will be?

I don't doubt that this tournament, if hosted by Qazox and Mangolana, will make it from start to finish. I just fear that not much thought was put into this bid, and if that's the case, hesitate to vote to approve it.

[Shofercia]

I just want to say that Qazox has been a fine host of the NS-X games, both summer and winter, and that he created the event to show that he's trying to change. Whether you guys give him the chance or not, is up to you, as I know very little about BoF, and just wanted to contribute my penny to the discussion. (See, it's not even two cents )

[Qazox]

These questions are admittedly quite belated (and coming from someone who admittedly is not quite active, but hopes for the continued success of the World Cup), but still nonetheless quite relevant:

Starting with the less important question: I'm admittedly not a huge fan of style modifiers, and with the BoF, feel very strongly that they're not necessary or even wise, as they add an element that could affect the competition beyond RPing. When it comes to the BoF, I don't believe that anything other than RP scoring (and, of course, the random element) should have an effect on the results generated and posted. Admittedly, the current generation of scorinators minimize (or eliminate) the direct effect on the margin of victory/defeat, which lessens my vehement opposition to style mods, however, a reading of your tiebreaking procedures leads to a potential issue, as Total Goals For is utilized. Since style modifiers directly effect the total goals scored in a match, this incentivizes high-attacking style modifiers over defensive-based style modifiers. Thus, my question to you both is this: What actual purpose do style modifiers actually serve to improve the Baptism of Fire experience, and how (if at all) does this purpose justify the fact that it allows teams to game the system?

Yes, that was the less important question.

The more important question, however, has to do with the RP scoring format. The format described is clear and concise (well, other than that comment about scores being adjusted between the group and knockout stages - though I also don't expect or wish for that to be elaborated on), however, I don't see any indication that it even accounts for the impact that it will have on the results. When coming up with the scoring system, did you consider the effect it would have on the odds of winning? If so, can you give us an idea of how much that effect will be?

I don't doubt that this tournament, if hosted by Qazox and Mangolana, will make it from start to finish. I just fear that not much thought was put into this bid, and if that's the case, hesitate to vote to approve it.

Question #1- I don't really know if modifiers improve the BoF experience, but since style modifers are (usually) used in the World Cup and the Cup of Harmony; shouldn't the Baptism of Fire be the first experience of a new nation with them? As for gaming the system, it's barely applicable, in my opinion, as usually the only nations that have one are the only nations that RP during the BoF, and after the first or second MD, the RP bonus plays a bigger factor (in my opinion again) than the style modifer. Yes, it may allow an RPing team to win 4-0 instead of 3-0 over a non-RPing team; but the result (RPing team wins) was not changed at all.

Question #2- Since each team will have their cumulative RP bonus adjusted by the same ratio; it shouldn't be that much of a factor at all. If it was done by straight points, it would be a bigger factor in the determination of which team wins, as shown below: (the RP bonus effect used in the examples below is not the one we will use)

Final base RP bonuses for each "team' for both tests: (figure a 0.10 bonus per each day RP'd)
qaz- 0.50
wsx- 0.40
edc- 0.30
rfv- 0.10
tgb- 0.00
yhn- 0.20
ujm- 0.00

All 7 teams will have a 0.00 modifer. and standings sorted by tiebreakers stated in the OP.

One "Bof style event with % based reduction: (Inital RP Bonus effect- 20% [reduced to 15% for playoffs])

Group stage:
Pld   W  D  L   GF  GA  GD  Pts 
1 wsx                    6   3  2  1   11  10  +1   11
2 edc                    6   3  2  1   11   8  +3   11
3 tgb                    6   2  3  1   15  11  +4    9
4 qaz                    6   2  2  2   10   6  +4    8
5 yhn                    6   1  3  2    5   8  −3    6
6 ujm                    6   1  3  2    5   9  −4    6
7 rfv                    6   0  3  3    3   8  −5    3
Playoffs:
SF1: edc (edc) 1–0 tgb (tgb)
SF2: qaz (qaz) 1–0 wsx (wsx)

Final: edc (edc) 0–1 qaz (qaz)
3rd: tgb (tgb) 1–2 wsx (wsx)

In the playoffs (where the reducing would be in effect), the higher RP bonus team won all 4 matches. Not really exciting but expected.

One BoFstyle event with straight point reduction: (RP Bonus effect- 20% [each team reduced 0.05 RP bonus for playoffs])

Group stage:
1 wsx                    6   5  0  1   10   2  +8   15
2 qaz                    6   4  0  2   10   6  +4   12
3 rfv                    6   3  1  2    8   9  −1   10
4 yhn                    6   2  1  3   11  11   0    7
5 tgb                    6   1  3  2   13  15  −2    6
6 edc                    6   1  2  3    7  11  −4    5
7 ujm                    6   0  3  3    3   8  −5    3
Playoffs:
SF1: qaz (qaz) 1–1 rfv (rfv) (3–1 AET)
SF2: wsx (wsx) 0–2 yhn (yhn)

3rd: wsx (wsx) 1–0 rfv (rfv)
Final: qaz (qaz) 1–2 yhn (yhn)

In the playoffs (where the reducing would be in effect), the higher RP bonus team went 2-2, which isn't that unusual either.

So in conclusion, reducing the bonus effect by a percentage doesn't seem to have an effect on the outcomes (the better Rping team wins more often); while reducing it by a set amount for each team makes it seem more random (once agin, in my opinion). Granted this is only 1 set of simulations for each case; but xkoranate tends to replicate results consistantly.

For the playoff portion, it's really splitting hairs, as it comes down to this: do you want a team that has RPed throughout to have a roughly 50/50 chance of being upset by a team that didn't and somehow made the playoffs; or do you want each team to have a slightly better chance against the same team based on the fact you had been RPing? If it were me competing, I'd prefer the latter.

[Legalese]

Yeah, so I totally missed the ratio part in the initial bid

At any rate, the response is much appreciated, and will be reflected in my vote.