NATION

PASSWORD

New Civilizations (2nd Era, OOC, Always Open )

For all of your non-Nationstates related roleplaying needs!

Advertisement

Remove ads

How should we carry on - ( comment what you voted after voting, THIS IS MANDATORY )

Poll ended at Mon May 11, 2020 5:40 am

1. Carry on in the year 2975
15
68%
2. Skip to the year 2970
3
14%
3. Skip to the year 2945
4
18%
 
Total votes : 22

User avatar
G-Tech Corporation
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 57592
Founded: Feb 03, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby G-Tech Corporation » Mon May 04, 2020 12:33 pm

Plzen wrote:
G-Tech Corporation wrote:Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary but competition for limited resources remains a constant. Need as well as greed has followed us between the stars and the rewards of wealth still await those wise enough to recognize this deep thrumming of our common pulse.

Alpha Centauri?


But of course. A gem of a setting.
TG if you have questions about RP. If I don't know the answer, I know someone who does.

Quite the unofficial fellow. P2TM Mentor specializing in faction and nation RPs, as well as RPGs.

User avatar
Reatra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16454
Founded: Sep 02, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Reatra » Mon May 04, 2020 12:33 pm

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Plzen wrote:Alpha Centauri?


But of course. A gem of a setting.


Oh my lord I love it.
yee haw it's time for mass line

User avatar
Joohan
Senator
 
Posts: 4742
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Mon May 04, 2020 12:34 pm

I view the Imperium as a polity more based in convenience that ideology or nationhood. Similar to Summeria.
Make Christendom Great Again!

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
The Orson Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31067
Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Orson Empire » Mon May 04, 2020 12:34 pm

Yo G-Tech, if I were to align Sweden with the Imperium, would we still keep our local customs?
Heterosexual male and from the US of A

User avatar
G-Tech Corporation
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 57592
Founded: Feb 03, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby G-Tech Corporation » Mon May 04, 2020 12:37 pm

Joohan wrote:I view the Imperium as a polity more based in convenience that ideology or nationhood. Similar to Summeria.


Certainly so. If there were even such a thing as Imperial ideology, actualization of man and collective material progress would summarize it fairly competently. But those are only present in the tiniest vestiges.

The Orson Empire wrote:Yo G-Tech, if I were to align Sweden with the Imperium, would we still keep our local customs?


Well, I'm sure there would be some osmosis - naturally - but we aren't in the habit of doing anything with local cultures save where they are incompatible with peace and prosperity. Like, we might frown on continued raiding into Finland, as it is a flashpoint for conflict.
TG if you have questions about RP. If I don't know the answer, I know someone who does.

Quite the unofficial fellow. P2TM Mentor specializing in faction and nation RPs, as well as RPGs.

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 4363
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Mon May 04, 2020 12:41 pm

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:
Reatra wrote:
Yeah left-right wing terms only really makes sense in the context of post-French Revolution capitalism. Creating a democratic confederation by linking together various villages and developing infrastructure is more... skipping that era completely.


With the rate G is spreading classical liberal capitalism and imperialism - it might be sooner than you think

eagerly awaiting Victor's anime fight with Aaron.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Joohan wrote:I view the Imperium as a polity more based in convenience that ideology or nationhood. Similar to Summeria.


Certainly so. If there were even such a thing as Imperial ideology, actualization of man and collective material progress would summarize it fairly competently. But those are only present in the tiniest vestiges.

The Orson Empire wrote:Yo G-Tech, if I were to align Sweden with the Imperium, would we still keep our local customs?


Well, I'm sure there would be some osmosis - naturally - but we aren't in the habit of doing anything with local cultures save where they are incompatible with peace and prosperity. Like, we might frown on continued raiding into Finland, as it is a flashpoint for conflict.

>collective material progress
>capitalist autocracy

you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

User avatar
Reatra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16454
Founded: Sep 02, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Reatra » Mon May 04, 2020 12:43 pm

Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.


BASED
yee haw it's time for mass line

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 4363
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Mon May 04, 2020 12:44 pm

Reatra wrote:
Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.


BASED

hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

User avatar
Reatra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16454
Founded: Sep 02, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Reatra » Mon May 04, 2020 12:45 pm

Orostan wrote:
Reatra wrote:
BASED

hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.


we're a solid two or three centuries from anything approaching global geopolitics tbh
yee haw it's time for mass line

User avatar
G-Tech Corporation
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 57592
Founded: Feb 03, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby G-Tech Corporation » Mon May 04, 2020 12:46 pm

Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.


Pft. What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?
TG if you have questions about RP. If I don't know the answer, I know someone who does.

Quite the unofficial fellow. P2TM Mentor specializing in faction and nation RPs, as well as RPGs.

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 4363
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Mon May 04, 2020 12:47 pm

Reatra wrote:
Orostan wrote:hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.


we're a solid two or three centuries from anything approaching global geopolitics tbh

Sure, but encounters between civilizations with opposite economic and government models will be a lot of fun to RP.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.


Pft. What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?

I'm getting some German Labor Front vibes from that sentence.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

User avatar
Plzen
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9099
Founded: Mar 19, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Plzen » Mon May 04, 2020 12:48 pm

It is going to be a very, very long time before any East Asian state can meaningfully project power into Europe, and vice versa.

And even when it does happen, odds are pretty good that it will be via maritime routes instead of through the thousands of kilometres of forest and desert that overland routes go through.



G-Tech Corporation wrote:What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?

Guilds as they historically exist, of course, are excellent demonstrations that illustrate why modern labour unions usually don’t allow management to join.
Last edited by Plzen on Mon May 04, 2020 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Forward, my comrades, march to your stations,
Righteous and proud! Win, we most surely can.
This is a triumph of peace and of nations,
A dawn of friendship for all people of man!

User avatar
Joohan
Senator
 
Posts: 4742
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Mon May 04, 2020 12:49 pm

Orostan wrote:
Reatra wrote:
BASED

hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.


If they survive me that is...
Make Christendom Great Again!

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
Joohan
Senator
 
Posts: 4742
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Mon May 04, 2020 12:52 pm

Imma be real which you guys, I dont see unions being a thing for a while. Most any job that we introduce will still offer more in terms of payment an be less dangerous than their former life styles.

Ita gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.
Make Christendom Great Again!

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
G-Tech Corporation
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 57592
Founded: Feb 03, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby G-Tech Corporation » Mon May 04, 2020 12:52 pm

Plzen wrote:Guilds as they historically exist, of course, are excellent demonstrations that illustrate why modern labour unions usually don’t allow management to join.


Precisely why a clever autocrat endorses guilds instead of unions! Give the working class enough air to breathe with the boot off of their neck, integrate them usefully into the design and training processes, and a modicum of equality will reap a treasure trove of rewards.
TG if you have questions about RP. If I don't know the answer, I know someone who does.

Quite the unofficial fellow. P2TM Mentor specializing in faction and nation RPs, as well as RPGs.

User avatar
Plzen
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9099
Founded: Mar 19, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Plzen » Mon May 04, 2020 12:56 pm

Joohan wrote:it’s gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.

It’ll take a lot more than a generation. It’ll take an industrial society.

Peasantry don’t tend to unionise, and society is still a very long way off having meaningfully large populations of industrial proletariat.



G-Tech Corporation wrote:Precisely why a clever autocrat endorses guilds instead of unions! Give the working class enough air to breathe with the boot off of their neck, integrate them usefully into the design and training processes, and a modicum of equality will reap a treasure trove of rewards.

Of course, in pre-capitalist societies guilds were very much a part of the boot pressing down on the bottom of society.
Forward, my comrades, march to your stations,
Righteous and proud! Win, we most surely can.
This is a triumph of peace and of nations,
A dawn of friendship for all people of man!

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 4363
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Mon May 04, 2020 12:58 pm

Plzen wrote:It is going to be a very, very long time before any East Asian state can meaningfully project power into Europe, and vice versa.

And even when it does happen, odds are pretty good that it will be via maritime routes instead of through the thousands of kilometres of forest and desert that overland routes go through.



G-Tech Corporation wrote:What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?

Guilds as they historically exist, of course, are excellent demonstrations that illustrate why modern labour unions usually don’t allow management to join.

Oh yeah, of course. I mean rivalry in the sense that our civilizations are going to have a rough awareness that they're basically polar opposites and try to match each other's accomplishments.

Joohan wrote:
Orostan wrote:hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.


If they survive me that is...

Hibernia Wars: A New Hope

Joohan wrote:Imma be real which you guys, I dont see unions being a thing for a while. Most any job that we introduce will still offer more in terms of payment an be less dangerous than their former life styles.

Ita gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.

Sure, but even before that people are going to notice that a lot of the wealth they produce is going to the upper class that does not do productive work instead of being evenly distributed among the workers. That'll be a source of discontent.

Also industrialization did not improve standards of living until workers began demanding improvements. The eight hour workday was a product of part of that struggle, and I believe that it's realistic to assume that big improvements in labor's condition would be produced by similar struggles. As technology improves the Imperium will probably want its workers working longer hours to further add to the productivity improvements. Without organized opposition, that would not create a bad situation for the leadership and would benefit them against the commonwealth in the short term.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Plzen wrote:Guilds as they historically exist, of course, are excellent demonstrations that illustrate why modern labour unions usually don’t allow management to join.


Precisely why a clever autocrat endorses guilds instead of unions! Give the working class enough air to breathe with the boot off of their neck, integrate them usefully into the design and training processes, and a modicum of equality will reap a treasure trove of rewards.

Guilds are going to be company union's though, they're controlled opposition. They work to disrupt organizing in the workplace, not throw workers a few scraps so they don't revolt.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

User avatar
Reatra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16454
Founded: Sep 02, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Reatra » Mon May 04, 2020 1:00 pm

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.


Pft. What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?


guild-led industrialization is a very cool thing, like occurred in Egypt, or earlier in the Mughal Empire's Bengal, or to a far lesser extent in the former Hanseatic League of Northern Germany, but as far as I can tell the Imperium is not doing it, and instead is more closely following the model of imperial state capitalism set but Britain and such.

Either way, these economies take time to develop. Many countries of the world today have been industrializing for centuries now and still have peasantry and large rural landlords and such.
yee haw it's time for mass line

User avatar
Reatra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16454
Founded: Sep 02, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Reatra » Mon May 04, 2020 1:01 pm

Joohan wrote:Imma be real which you guys, I dont see unions being a thing for a while. Most any job that we introduce will still offer more in terms of payment an be less dangerous than their former life styles.

Ita gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.


what? get used to luxuries? idk wym. considering European states are forcefully pushing tight knit communities into their fold why wouldnt these communities bargain collectively? I'm not even being an edgy commie that's just been a thing forever.
yee haw it's time for mass line

User avatar
Orostan
Senator
 
Posts: 4363
Founded: May 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Orostan » Mon May 04, 2020 1:07 pm

Reatra wrote:
Joohan wrote:Imma be real which you guys, I dont see unions being a thing for a while. Most any job that we introduce will still offer more in terms of payment an be less dangerous than their former life styles.

Ita gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.


what? get used to luxuries? idk wym. considering European states are forcefully pushing tight knit communities into their fold why wouldnt these communities bargain collectively? I'm not even being an edgy commie that's just been a thing forever.

hm.

Would the Imperium be breaking up those communities in a sort of enclosure act type system? Urbanization must happen for industrialization. For China I want to urbanize by having people voluntarily move into cities for the increased living standards and availability of mass produced goods, but for a state like the Imperium I don't see voluntary movement occurring unless the government pays these communities a lot to move into cities. It's more likely that the Imperium privatizes the land and moves the peasantry involuntarily into towns and cities to make an industrial workforce. Why would the Imperium spend the money paying peasants when they have guns and sharp sticks, and the peasants do not?
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN


Sagarmatha wrote:You have a corporatist brain. "It's more faster so it's better". Profit, profit, profit my dear Neoliberal, never forget why you exist. Profit, profit, profit.


Orostan wrote:you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

User avatar
Alaroma
Minister
 
Posts: 3461
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Alaroma » Mon May 04, 2020 1:09 pm

Ralnis wrote:If there is a generation, then Sumeria will be mostly feeling a very, very bloodied burn. This back and forth civil war has brought the people to their knees, no matter how much technology they made between industry or military. A united Sumeria will be a tired one, one that such tiredness will bring forth a much needed unity and centralization as they throw out their shitty model of government and make a more centralized one with a lot of oversight.

They would become a true empire at this time, the Second head of the Holy Dynasty and First Empress focusing on her people and importing Nestos tech and invest on heavy industrialization and education for the masses. Reforms to encourage population growth, stimulus spending for improving trade and infrastructure. Setting themselves back on top in the economic world while making contact with Indian states and tribes to economy buy them out to send resources to increase Sumerian economic power.

Help their vassal grow more and try to establish themselves more in the Red Sea, exploring the coast with new, non oar ships and maybe some actual steel that they can make to send on their way. The Industrial revolution of water would be something that is made but also start having the Sumerian rulership eye Elam finally and then seek to conquer them in the Iron War.

The Sumerians will win but at heavy expense, Elamites being much more dangerous than Urukians and feeding off of trade from Sumer and Nestos had made them near equals in technology. So that's something to work with as the Sumerian companies and merchants start exploiting their lifetime rival for all the coal, iron, stone and oil they have.

Add Christianity in there, and sounds about right.
"Yeah, you're right. You got lucky this time. If there were Dutch people there, you would be facing so many rebels!"
-Nuverkikstan

User avatar
Alaroma
Minister
 
Posts: 3461
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Alaroma » Mon May 04, 2020 1:10 pm

Also unions are based, and my Christianity is gonna peer pressure management into being gamers.
"Yeah, you're right. You got lucky this time. If there were Dutch people there, you would be facing so many rebels!"
-Nuverkikstan

User avatar
Joohan
Senator
 
Posts: 4742
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Mon May 04, 2020 1:16 pm

ill be trying to get a post up tonight
Make Christendom Great Again!

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


User avatar
Reatra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16454
Founded: Sep 02, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Reatra » Mon May 04, 2020 1:16 pm

Orostan wrote:
Reatra wrote:
what? get used to luxuries? idk wym. considering European states are forcefully pushing tight knit communities into their fold why wouldnt these communities bargain collectively? I'm not even being an edgy commie that's just been a thing forever.

hm.

Would the Imperium be breaking up those communities in a sort of enclosure act type system? Urbanization must happen for industrialization. For China I want to urbanize by having people voluntarily move into cities for the increased living standards and availability of mass produced goods, but for a state like the Imperium I don't see voluntary movement occurring unless the government pays these communities a lot to move into cities. It's more likely that the Imperium privatizes the land and moves the peasantry involuntarily into towns and cities to make an industrial workforce. Why would the Imperium spend the money paying peasants when they have guns and sharp sticks, and the peasants do not?


probably, which, again, does little in the medium to long term to actually disempower those people.
yee haw it's time for mass line

User avatar
G-Tech Corporation
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 57592
Founded: Feb 03, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby G-Tech Corporation » Mon May 04, 2020 1:17 pm

Orostan wrote:
Reatra wrote:
what? get used to luxuries? idk wym. considering European states are forcefully pushing tight knit communities into their fold why wouldnt these communities bargain collectively? I'm not even being an edgy commie that's just been a thing forever.

hm.

Would the Imperium be breaking up those communities in a sort of enclosure act type system? Urbanization must happen for industrialization. For China I want to urbanize by having people voluntarily move into cities for the increased living standards and availability of mass produced goods, but for a state like the Imperium I don't see voluntary movement occurring unless the government pays these communities a lot to move into cities. It's more likely that the Imperium privatizes the land and moves the peasantry involuntarily into towns and cities to make an industrial workforce. Why would the Imperium spend the money paying peasants when they have guns and sharp sticks, and the peasants do not?


Hm? What's this about no voluntary movement?
TG if you have questions about RP. If I don't know the answer, I know someone who does.

Quite the unofficial fellow. P2TM Mentor specializing in faction and nation RPs, as well as RPGs.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Portal to the Multiverse

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Britanania, Flarbinia, Google Adsense [Bot], New Cobastheia, Organized States, Rudaslavia, Spiritual Republic of Caryton, Union Princes

Advertisement

Remove ads