New Civilizations (2nd Era, OOC, Always Open )

[G-Tech Corporation]

Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary but competition for limited resources remains a constant. Need as well as greed has followed us between the stars and the rewards of wealth still await those wise enough to recognize this deep thrumming of our common pulse.

Alpha Centauri?

But of course. A gem of a setting.

[Reatra]

Alpha Centauri?

But of course. A gem of a setting.

Oh my lord I love it.

[Joohan]

I view the Imperium as a polity more based in convenience that ideology or nationhood. Similar to Summeria.

[The Orson Empire]

Yo G-Tech, if I were to align Sweden with the Imperium, would we still keep our local customs?

[G-Tech Corporation]

I view the Imperium as a polity more based in convenience that ideology or nationhood. Similar to Summeria.

Certainly so. If there were even such a thing as Imperial ideology, actualization of man and collective material progress would summarize it fairly competently. But those are only present in the tiniest vestiges.

Yo G-Tech, if I were to align Sweden with the Imperium, would we still keep our local customs?

Well, I'm sure there would be some osmosis - naturally - but we aren't in the habit of doing anything with local cultures save where they are incompatible with peace and prosperity. Like, we might frown on continued raiding into Finland, as it is a flashpoint for conflict.

[Orostan]

Yeah left-right wing terms only really makes sense in the context of post-French Revolution capitalism. Creating a democratic confederation by linking together various villages and developing infrastructure is more... skipping that era completely.

With the rate G is spreading classical liberal capitalism and imperialism - it might be sooner than you think

eagerly awaiting Victor's anime fight with Aaron.

I view the Imperium as a polity more based in convenience that ideology or nationhood. Similar to Summeria.

Certainly so. If there were even such a thing as Imperial ideology, actualization of man and collective material progress would summarize it fairly competently. But those are only present in the tiniest vestiges.

Yo G-Tech, if I were to align Sweden with the Imperium, would we still keep our local customs?

Well, I'm sure there would be some osmosis - naturally - but we aren't in the habit of doing anything with local cultures save where they are incompatible with peace and prosperity. Like, we might frown on continued raiding into Finland, as it is a flashpoint for conflict.

>collective material progress
>capitalist autocracy

you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

[Reatra]

you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

BASED

[Orostan]

you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

BASED

hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.

[Reatra]

BASED

hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.

we're a solid two or three centuries from anything approaching global geopolitics tbh

[G-Tech Corporation]

you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

Pft. What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?

[Orostan]

hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.

we're a solid two or three centuries from anything approaching global geopolitics tbh

Sure, but encounters between civilizations with opposite economic and government models will be a lot of fun to RP.

you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

Pft. What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?

I'm getting some German Labor Front vibes from that sentence.

[Plzen]

It is going to be a very, very long time before any East Asian state can meaningfully project power into Europe, and vice versa.

And even when it does happen, odds are pretty good that it will be via maritime routes instead of through the thousands of kilometres of forest and desert that overland routes go through.

---

What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?

Guilds as they historically exist, of course, are excellent demonstrations that illustrate why modern labour unions usually don’t allow management to join.

[Joohan]

BASED

hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.

If they survive me that is...

[Joohan]

Imma be real which you guys, I dont see unions being a thing for a while. Most any job that we introduce will still offer more in terms of payment an be less dangerous than their former life styles.

Ita gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Guilds as they historically exist, of course, are excellent demonstrations that illustrate why modern labour unions usually don’t allow management to join.

Precisely why a clever autocrat endorses guilds instead of unions! Give the working class enough air to breathe with the boot off of their neck, integrate them usefully into the design and training processes, and a modicum of equality will reap a treasure trove of rewards.

[Plzen]

it’s gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.

It’ll take a lot more than a generation. It’ll take an industrial society.

Peasantry don’t tend to unionise, and society is still a very long way off having meaningfully large populations of industrial proletariat.

---

Precisely why a clever autocrat endorses guilds instead of unions! Give the working class enough air to breathe with the boot off of their neck, integrate them usefully into the design and training processes, and a modicum of equality will reap a treasure trove of rewards.

Of course, in pre-capitalist societies guilds were very much a part of the boot pressing down on the bottom of society.

[Orostan]

It is going to be a very, very long time before any East Asian state can meaningfully project power into Europe, and vice versa.

And even when it does happen, odds are pretty good that it will be via maritime routes instead of through the thousands of kilometres of forest and desert that overland routes go through.

---

What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?

Guilds as they historically exist, of course, are excellent demonstrations that illustrate why modern labour unions usually don’t allow management to join.

Oh yeah, of course. I mean rivalry in the sense that our civilizations are going to have a rough awareness that they're basically polar opposites and try to match each other's accomplishments.

hahaha

I have a feeling I'll have a lot of fun being rivals with the Imperium.

If they survive me that is...

Hibernia Wars: A New Hope

Imma be real which you guys, I dont see unions being a thing for a while. Most any job that we introduce will still offer more in terms of payment an be less dangerous than their former life styles.

Ita gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.

Sure, but even before that people are going to notice that a lot of the wealth they produce is going to the upper class that does not do productive work instead of being evenly distributed among the workers. That'll be a source of discontent.

Also industrialization did not improve standards of living until workers began demanding improvements. The eight hour workday was a product of part of that struggle, and I believe that it's realistic to assume that big improvements in labor's condition would be produced by similar struggles. As technology improves the Imperium will probably want its workers working longer hours to further add to the productivity improvements. Without organized opposition, that would not create a bad situation for the leadership and would benefit them against the commonwealth in the short term.

Guilds as they historically exist, of course, are excellent demonstrations that illustrate why modern labour unions usually don’t allow management to join.

Precisely why a clever autocrat endorses guilds instead of unions! Give the working class enough air to breathe with the boot off of their neck, integrate them usefully into the design and training processes, and a modicum of equality will reap a treasure trove of rewards.

Guilds are going to be company union's though, they're controlled opposition. They work to disrupt organizing in the workplace, not throw workers a few scraps so they don't revolt.

[Reatra]

you have posted cringe, your workers are going to unionize and kill you.

Pft. What do you think guilds are for save collective bargaining and the consolidation of industrial capital?

guild-led industrialization is a very cool thing, like occurred in Egypt, or earlier in the Mughal Empire's Bengal, or to a far lesser extent in the former Hanseatic League of Northern Germany, but as far as I can tell the Imperium is not doing it, and instead is more closely following the model of imperial state capitalism set but Britain and such.

Either way, these economies take time to develop. Many countries of the world today have been industrializing for centuries now and still have peasantry and large rural landlords and such.

[Reatra]

Imma be real which you guys, I dont see unions being a thing for a while. Most any job that we introduce will still offer more in terms of payment an be less dangerous than their former life styles.

Ita gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.

what? get used to luxuries? idk wym. considering European states are forcefully pushing tight knit communities into their fold why wouldnt these communities bargain collectively? I'm not even being an edgy commie that's just been a thing forever.

[Orostan]

Imma be real which you guys, I dont see unions being a thing for a while. Most any job that we introduce will still offer more in terms of payment an be less dangerous than their former life styles.

Ita gonna take a generation of people getting use to the luxuries of society before we see the rise of unionism.

what? get used to luxuries? idk wym. considering European states are forcefully pushing tight knit communities into their fold why wouldnt these communities bargain collectively? I'm not even being an edgy commie that's just been a thing forever.

hm.

Would the Imperium be breaking up those communities in a sort of enclosure act type system? Urbanization must happen for industrialization. For China I want to urbanize by having people voluntarily move into cities for the increased living standards and availability of mass produced goods, but for a state like the Imperium I don't see voluntary movement occurring unless the government pays these communities a lot to move into cities. It's more likely that the Imperium privatizes the land and moves the peasantry involuntarily into towns and cities to make an industrial workforce. Why would the Imperium spend the money paying peasants when they have guns and sharp sticks, and the peasants do not?

[Alaroma]

If there is a generation, then Sumeria will be mostly feeling a very, very bloodied burn. This back and forth civil war has brought the people to their knees, no matter how much technology they made between industry or military. A united Sumeria will be a tired one, one that such tiredness will bring forth a much needed unity and centralization as they throw out their shitty model of government and make a more centralized one with a lot of oversight.

They would become a true empire at this time, the Second head of the Holy Dynasty and First Empress focusing on her people and importing Nestos tech and invest on heavy industrialization and education for the masses. Reforms to encourage population growth, stimulus spending for improving trade and infrastructure. Setting themselves back on top in the economic world while making contact with Indian states and tribes to economy buy them out to send resources to increase Sumerian economic power.

Help their vassal grow more and try to establish themselves more in the Red Sea, exploring the coast with new, non oar ships and maybe some actual steel that they can make to send on their way. The Industrial revolution of water would be something that is made but also start having the Sumerian rulership eye Elam finally and then seek to conquer them in the Iron War.

The Sumerians will win but at heavy expense, Elamites being much more dangerous than Urukians and feeding off of trade from Sumer and Nestos had made them near equals in technology. So that's something to work with as the Sumerian companies and merchants start exploiting their lifetime rival for all the coal, iron, stone and oil they have.

Add Christianity in there, and sounds about right.

[Alaroma]

Also unions are based, and my Christianity is gonna peer pressure management into being gamers.

[Joohan]

ill be trying to get a post up tonight

[Reatra]

what? get used to luxuries? idk wym. considering European states are forcefully pushing tight knit communities into their fold why wouldnt these communities bargain collectively? I'm not even being an edgy commie that's just been a thing forever.

hm.

Would the Imperium be breaking up those communities in a sort of enclosure act type system? Urbanization must happen for industrialization. For China I want to urbanize by having people voluntarily move into cities for the increased living standards and availability of mass produced goods, but for a state like the Imperium I don't see voluntary movement occurring unless the government pays these communities a lot to move into cities. It's more likely that the Imperium privatizes the land and moves the peasantry involuntarily into towns and cities to make an industrial workforce. Why would the Imperium spend the money paying peasants when they have guns and sharp sticks, and the peasants do not?

probably, which, again, does little in the medium to long term to actually disempower those people.

[G-Tech Corporation]

what? get used to luxuries? idk wym. considering European states are forcefully pushing tight knit communities into their fold why wouldnt these communities bargain collectively? I'm not even being an edgy commie that's just been a thing forever.

hm.

Would the Imperium be breaking up those communities in a sort of enclosure act type system? Urbanization must happen for industrialization. For China I want to urbanize by having people voluntarily move into cities for the increased living standards and availability of mass produced goods, but for a state like the Imperium I don't see voluntary movement occurring unless the government pays these communities a lot to move into cities. It's more likely that the Imperium privatizes the land and moves the peasantry involuntarily into towns and cities to make an industrial workforce. Why would the Imperium spend the money paying peasants when they have guns and sharp sticks, and the peasants do not?

Hm? What's this about no voluntary movement?