Rise and Fall: A Civilization RP (SIGNUP/OOC)[OPEN]

[Great Franconia and Verana]

I will be looking over all the completed apps later this evening.

[Great Franconia and Verana]

As for the problem with the Map link, I do not know why there is a problem, it has allowed me to access it through the link in the OP.

[Andsed]

I will be looking over all the completed apps later this evening.

Well it is a good thing I just finished that. Also uh what timezone are you in?

[Skarten]

Alright, to clear up any confusion regarding stats.

Each of you should start with a big fat 0 in all categories, before any choices are made. Stats are indicators of how much your civilization specializes in something. There are four ways to get stats at the beginning.

1.) Everyone is given +3 points to distribute as they please. They are also given -2 points that they must use.
2.) Government then adds or subtracts certain points.
3) Your culture and religion fields both add points (+1 depending on your culture, and +2 depending on your religion)
4.) Finally, you get +.5 of a point in each territory you own aside from your home territory. This +.5 is given to one stat, thereby giving that region a focus. After 1 real life week of owning a territory, the land becomes a "town" and gives you a full 1 point to the state you decided it was at the time you colonized it. Finally, per every 10 territories, not including your home territory, you may select one region to expand further, making it a "city region." City regions give +2 to the bonus you ascribed at the beginning of owning the territory, and +1 wildcard point you can put in anywhere.

Does that clear things up?

As for the question regarding expansion of regions, after three days or IRL time, you will choose 2 new territories to colonize.

Uh, i'm going to have to say that i kinda think it ain't very good the whole colonization expansion thing. It's not like the land is a complete unhabited wasteland, it's 500 BC.
In my opinion, to expand you should have to RP it, either through conquest or through alliances and etcx (Confederations, satrapies you get what i mean)

[Kannap]

The Application (Stats and Data)
Nation Name: Athênai
Capital City Name: Athens (Ἀθῆναι)
Capital City Defenses: Port city protected by four large mountains: Mount Aigaleo to the west, Mount Parnitha to the north, Mount Pentelicus to the northeast and Mount Hymettus to the east. Also protected by the gulf to the south. Despite the natural defenses, the city is also surrounded by stone walls. One wall surrounding the Agora, the lower city; one wall surrounding the Acropolis, the upper city.
Starting Region and colonies:

Culture Type: Pacifists (+1 Economy)
Government Type: Direct Democracy (+1 science; +1 culture; +1 Diplomacy; -1 economy; -1 to army
Religion: Athena, goddess of wisdom and war (+1 Diplomacy; +1 Navy)
Resources: Fertile land, fish, timber, and marble.
Stats: Diplomacy: 2
Economy: 1
Culture: 2.5
Religion: -1
Science: 1.5
Army: -2
Navy: 2

The Application (Roleplaying Aspects)
Nation Name: Athênai
Capital City Name: Athens (Ἀθῆναι)
Image of City:

Capital City Decription: The city of Athens is a city built on two levels. The Acropolis is the upper level of the city, home to the temple of Athena and surrounded by a stone wall. The Agora, the lower level of the city, is also surrounded by a stone wall and is where the schools, homes of citizens, markets, stadiums, arenas, and pretty much everything else lies. There are also two stone walls, that run parallel, 40 stadia (7 km) long to the port town of Piraeus, which in turn has it's own stone wall protecting it. The Long Walls, as they're called, are defended by soldiers and have a narrow path in between them that allow for safe travel between Piraeus and Athens without fear of being attacked by bandits. A similar wall runs to Phalerum, 35 stadia (6.5 km) long, to defend the main port of Athens.

Athens is a certain of culture, literature, philosophy, and art. People come to Athens for trade, diplomacy, and wisdom - not for war. The army is nothing like that of the Spartan war machine but the navy is the strongest in the region.

Name of Leader: Kleisthénēs (Κλεισθένης)
Title of Leader: Archon (chief magistrate)
Description of Cultural Practices: Athens is the city of wisdom, and the citizens value intelligence rather than might like their Spartan allies. The city is home to many schools and is a center of great thought and various ideas.
Description of Political System: The city and her colonies are ruled by direct democracy. The Archon is elected by the people. The citizens of the city and her colonies have a vote in all matters of law and in who their leaders are, all have a right to a fair trial before their peers, and all have the right to own land. (*citizens being all men; women don't hold these rights).
Description of Army and Navy: The army mainly consists of archers, who serve well to defend the city walls without having to near any attacking enemies. There are some spear and sword units in the army, who can defend if an enemy were to get over the walls or in the city. These footmen also defend in the mountains around the city, serving as forward units to send a messenger should they see an enemy approaching far before the city can see the enemy. The navy is the pride and might of the Athenian military. The naval yards are never ceasing to produce powerful wooden vessels designed to split an enemy's vessel in half with one good ram from the front of the Athenian vessel. Archers and spear throwers are trained to serve on these ships and rowers are trained to ensure the ships can build up speed before ramming an enemy vessel. The ships also feature masts with sails for when they're not in combat and are simply travelling on the seas.
Description of Economy: The Athenian economy is a wealthy one compared to most, though it is mainly in due part to great diplomacy and trade with her neighbors.
Description of Religion: The Athenians worship Athena as their patron goddess, though very often sailors in the navy will also worship Poseidon because of their occupation. The citizens of Athens are certainly polytheistic, worshiping any of the gods and goddesses of the Greek pantheon, but Athena remains the most respected as the chief goddess of the city and its people.
Description of Worldview: The Athenians believe the world is a place to be learned from. Other peoples of the world should come to Athens and teach the Athenians about their cultures and their gods and beliefs and thoughts and ideas. Typically, Athenians will have no reason to show disrespect or anger towards another group of people unless they attack or blatantly disrespect or insult the Athenians.

[Kraicia]

The Application (Stats and Data)
(Nation Name): Holtland
(Capital City Name): Thematt (Holtlandic translation for, "Zermatt")
(Capital City Defenses): Rugged forestland and hilly-mountainous terrain
(Starting Region): Dark Red
(Starting Colonies): Grey
(Culture Type): Militarists
(Government Type): Direct Democracy
(Religion): Griffscytta, Spirit of the Hunt (+1 Army, +1 Science)
(Resources): Timber, Iron, Cattle (Leather), Fishing, and Stone
(Stats):
Diplomacy: +1
Economy: +1 (-1)
Culture: +1
Religion: 0
Science: +2
Army: +2 (-1)
Navy: -1 (Landlock)

---

The Application (Roleplaying Aspects)
(Nation Name): Holtland
(Capital City Name): Thermatt
(Image of City):

(Capital City Description): Thermatt ('Ther-matt') is the capital city of Holtland, and the only city throughout Holtland. Settled long ago in 10,000 BC by four rivaling hunter families, legend has it that after centuries of competitive hunting with each other, the four hunter families decided to organize one final hunt that would define who would become the true hunters of the alps, sending a son and daughter from each family to hunt three targets: Bjord (The Bear), Adler (The Eagle), and Forelle (The Trout). Only one family was allowed to hunt and keep all three animals, hence why the pairs were ordered to kill anyone else in their way; however, during the final hunt, the sons and daughters of each family - enlightened by their chance encounter with Griffscytta (Spirit of the Hunt) - helped each other out instead, united to defeat the venerable bear, ambush the untouchable eagle, and fish the elusive trout. When all four families heard of this, they separately attempted to have their son and daughter murdered; however, the sons and daughters stood up for each other and fighting their families to the defeat, uniting together as the only survivors in the end to form the Holtlandic people. In a twist of irony, instead of vociferous fanfare, only silence sweet in accomplishment and humbleness was shared among the four sons and daughters, hence why their subsequent home became generally inferred in Old Holtlantic as, 'Thogull Matta' (lit. "Quiet Meadows").

True to its ancient name, Thermatt is a very quiet place, only disturbed every now and then by the winds, snow, and rain that befell among the city itself. Protected by mountains in all directions with rugged forestland and hills, it is impossible to move siege weapons into place due to the rough and unstable terrain, and with the only main way in or out of the city going northward on the Nuwmwndelstrasse ('Nuy-muyn-del-stra-se'; Holtlandic translation for, "Neue Kantonstrasse") towards the crossroad town of Wisp (Holtlandic translation for, "Visp"). Thermatt is the final eastward stop of the Nuwmwndelstrasse, connected by Wisp and Sion, before ending at Lac Leman; however, this 'highway' is a long yet narrow cobblestone-grass road, guiding anyone who travels on it with simple wooden signs. Thermatt has no walls, and only small plots of land used for horticultural purposes by the more successful families, since the people rely on hunting and fishing for food, alongside farm animals used for materials in clothing, weapons, shelter, and construction. Lastly, and most importantly, every family has their own house, having built and maintained it on their own accord and free of taxation and government/business ownership; however, since Holtland is a direct democracy, the people come together near the top of Furgghorn at a temple (named 'Fjallameer'; lit. "Mountain Shrine"; Holtlandic equivalent to, "Trockener Steg"), where the people come together to speak and vote on daily issues every three months.

Fjallameer is a strategic location that overlooks Thermatt from the south, giving he/she the ability to view the city in case of an enemy attack or natural disaster. As the highest point of Thermatt, the paths and roads that lead up to the temple are deliberately derelict and overgrown with foliage overgrowth to prevent outsiders from reaching or escaping the temple. Being so high up in the mountains than Thermatt, however, also leaves Fjallameer without trees, instead blanketed by gravel, rocks, clouds, ice, and snow. Only the strongest and wisest citizens of Holtland could be able to traverse the path to even climb up or down from Fjallameer without dying, hence why families bring their children with them so that they too would know how to safely hike up and down the mountains. As a matter of fact, Fjallameer is a prestigious training facility for hiking and mountain warfare for the Holtlanders, requiring trainees/apprentices to come to Fjallameer for a month every year for training or combat evaluations.
(Name and Title of Leader): Hyynspraacer Hans Heinrich (High Speaker Hans Hendrick)
(Description of Cultural Practices): Freedom and community are key features of Holtlandic culture. In simple context, this means every Holtland family has to build and maintain their own home, build their own furniture, make their own clothing (albeit from obtaining leather and cloth through bartering), grow their own vegetables and plants, hunt their own food, and provide protection for themselves; however, this doesn't mean Holtlandic culture is selfish and anarchic. While self-sustainability is important for Holtlandic society, community is important, established long ago by the four sons and four daughters that gave Thermatt its name eons ago. While each family can provide for themselves in terms of food, shelter, and clothing, community allows families to barter some things for others, all the while providing a sense of cultural identity and collective unity against foreign invaders. To depend and rely on others for your own basic needs subsequently makes you weak, unskilled, and cowardly, hence why it is common to punish those of laziness and/or cowardice via perpetual lecturing with increasing difficulty, forcing him/her to eventually stand up for themselves upon obtaining the strength and bravery of repeated lecturing and extensive teachings.
(Description of Political System): Holtland is a direct democracy, where citizens participate and vote directly on legislation and executive bills every three months, with participation open to male and females at the minimum age of 16-years-old. Foreign residents, outsiders, and underage individuals are not allowed to vote or participate, hence why breaking this law is punishable by manhunt for life (foreign residents and outsiders only) or mandatory duels (underage people / children; effectively until he/she has come of age and can vote). As for leadership, a council of leaders called, Hyynspraacers (Holtlandic for, "High Speaker"), are elected into office for a year before they are then succeeded by a collection of new Hyynspraacers. The Hyynspraacers are organized according to the amount of people in Holtland, with one Hyynspraacer for every thousand people; however, to minimize corruption, anyone who has ran for office has to wait for ten years before they are then allowed to run for election again. Also, Hyynspraacers are determined and voted into office based on merit, history, and achievement, running for election every October to December. But the main reason behind yearly elections and a strict one year long term is because the Holtlandic people believe and consider politics and diplomacy as mandatory volunteer work, rather than a formal line of work and career.
(Description of Army and Navy): The Holtlanders are masters of archery, alongside the art of stealth and hunting. All Holtland citizens/families are required by law to carry a bow and arrow, and then devote a minimum of two hours or more of practice, where his/her skills will then be evaluated later on, determining where he/she might end up in the army. For example, archers with low training and evaluation results are put alongside more experienced archers so that he/she can have their skills sharpened and mentality hardened from the grueling realities of hunting and combat. While cowardice is not tolerated, the decentralized nature and structure of the Holtland military allows greater flexibility and adaption, hence why it has often been preferred to punish cowards by forcing him/her to keep doing training and mandatory duels until he/she has developed enough bravery and competence. Due to the individualistic customs and traditions of Holtland culture, politics, and militarism, each family has a unique uniform, with the form of universal identification in the military being color-designated headbands (red, blue, green, or yellow) or feathers (eagle or turtledove feathers fastened on the side of him/her's head via headband or beret); however, all the unique uniforms common incorporate tall boots (or shoes with leather bandaging/straps) either with or without leather/metal armor, and trousers (except females, whom instead wear thigh-high boots and skirts/kilts). These colorful and unique uniforms, however, masked with camouflaged hooded cloaks when in actual combat or hunting, fully understanding the logic behind the element of surprise and stealth in those situations.
(Description of Economy): The Holtland economy is a mixture of agriculture, horticulture, mining, and lumber. Leather is provided from pastroalist, and the very material itself is a common clothing material in Holtlandic society, acting both as armor and material for making boots and gloves. Iron is considered a rare/special metal to the Holtlanders, used exclusively in armor, while other items like tools (e.g. shovel), weapons/munitions (e.g. bow and arrow), and furniture (e.g. drawers) are made from wood or stone. Most importantly, the Holtlandic people are based more around hunter-gathering/foraging rather than domesticated/agricultural means of food, since not only is it in their culture to learn how to hunt and survive out in the wilderness, but also be able to provide for yourself and not rely on others so much. But due to the possibility of famines and the need for surviving the winter, vegetable gardens are encouraged and cultivated by Holtlandic families as an emergency source of food; however, this does not render Holtland a pure agrarian society, since every family has to provide food, clothing, and shelter for themselves rather than purchasing it from someone.
(Description of Religion): WIP
(Description of Worldview): WIP

[Fedel]

Alright, to clear up any confusion regarding stats.

Each of you should start with a big fat 0 in all categories, before any choices are made. Stats are indicators of how much your civilization specializes in something. There are four ways to get stats at the beginning.

1.) Everyone is given +3 points to distribute as they please. They are also given -2 points that they must use.
2.) Government then adds or subtracts certain points.
3) Your culture and religion fields both add points (+1 depending on your culture, and +2 depending on your religion)
4.) Finally, you get +.5 of a point in each territory you own aside from your home territory. This +.5 is given to one stat, thereby giving that region a focus. After 1 real life week of owning a territory, the land becomes a "town" and gives you a full 1 point to the state you decided it was at the time you colonized it. Finally, per every 10 territories, not including your home territory, you may select one region to expand further, making it a "city region." City regions give +2 to the bonus you ascribed at the beginning of owning the territory, and +1 wildcard point you can put in anywhere.

Does that clear things up?

As for the question regarding expansion of regions, after three days or IRL time, you will choose 2 new territories to colonize.

If what you're saying above is true, then that means there's a discrepancy in your own application.

Your overall stats presented in your app are:

Diplomacy: 2
Economy: 4.5
Culture: 1
Religion: -2
Science: 0
Army: -1
Navy: 2.5

Your government being a Classical Republic you would give you an initial score of ( +1 Culture, +1 Economy, +1 Diplomacy, -1 Army, -1 Religion ).
Your culture being a Pacifist type would give you an additional ( +1 economy )
Your religion gives you ( +1 economy, +1 navy )
Presumably, of the two starting regions you have, you made one focused on navy and one focused on economy ( +0.5 Economy, +0.5 Navy ).

This would give you an overall score of:

Diplomacy: 1
Economy: 3.5
Culture: 1
Religion: -1
Science: 0
Army: -1
Navy: 1.5

With an additional 3 points for you to add and 2 to take away.

Assuming you added 1 point to economy, 1 to navy and 1 to diplomacy and took away 1 point from Religion you would get the following score:

Diplomacy: 2
Economy: 4.5
Culture: 1
Religion: -2
Science: 0
Army: -1
Navy: 2.5

The one in your app. But this would also mean that you added 3 points and only took away 1 rather then 2.

[Great Franconia and Verana]

Alright, to clear up any confusion regarding stats.

Each of you should start with a big fat 0 in all categories, before any choices are made. Stats are indicators of how much your civilization specializes in something. There are four ways to get stats at the beginning.

1.) Everyone is given +3 points to distribute as they please. They are also given -2 points that they must use.
2.) Government then adds or subtracts certain points.
3) Your culture and religion fields both add points (+1 depending on your culture, and +2 depending on your religion)
4.) Finally, you get +.5 of a point in each territory you own aside from your home territory. This +.5 is given to one stat, thereby giving that region a focus. After 1 real life week of owning a territory, the land becomes a "town" and gives you a full 1 point to the state you decided it was at the time you colonized it. Finally, per every 10 territories, not including your home territory, you may select one region to expand further, making it a "city region." City regions give +2 to the bonus you ascribed at the beginning of owning the territory, and +1 wildcard point you can put in anywhere.

Does that clear things up?

As for the question regarding expansion of regions, after three days or IRL time, you will choose 2 new territories to colonize.

If what you're saying above is true, then that means there's a discrepancy in your own application.

Your overall stats presented in your app are:

Diplomacy: 2
Economy: 4.5
Culture: 1
Religion: -2
Science: 0
Army: -1
Navy: 2.5

Your government being a Classical Republic you would give you an initial score of ( +1 Culture, +1 Economy, +1 Diplomacy, -1 Army, -1 Religion ).
Your culture being a Pacifist type would give you an additional ( +1 economy )
Your religion gives you ( +1 economy, +1 navy )
Presumably, of the two starting regions you have, you made one focused on navy and one focused on economy ( +0.5 Economy, +0.5 Navy ).

This would give you an overall score of:

Diplomacy: 1
Economy: 3.5
Culture: 1
Religion: -1
Science: 0
Army: -1
Navy: 1.5

With an additional 3 points for you to add and 2 to take away.

Assuming you added 1 point to economy, 1 to navy and 1 to diplomacy and took away 1 point from Religion you would get the following score:

Diplomacy: 2
Economy: 4.5
Culture: 1
Religion: -2
Science: 0
Army: -1
Navy: 2.5

The one in your app. But this would also mean that you added 3 points and only took away 1 rather then 2.

My mistake I must have counted wrong. I will edit it. Thanks.

Work caught me late today so I was unable to get to the apps. Will do them asap however.

[Kraicia]

Tag

[Great Franconia and Verana]

Gaisia- Accepted. Just be careful with those boats of yours. I will not allow them being too OP.

Ralnis-Accepted

Andsed-Accepted

Kannap-Accepted

Kraicia-Accepted

Sorry for the wait, work is a nightmare.

A few more civs and we can get an IC up.

[Great Franconia and Verana]

I will be updating the Map later today with everyone who is accepted.

There was a concern raised about hoe to handle territorisl expansion. Does anyone have other ideas than the one outlined in the OP?

If the main concern is RP related, one must still RP out the colonization of the region even when receiving it at the end of the three day period.

[Great Franconia and Verana]

Just want to give this a little bump.

[Fedel]

I'm going to try to finish up my application today. I have a lot of great ideas for story arcs and characters that I can't wait to implement in the RP.

[Great Franconia and Verana]

I'm going to try to finish up my application today. I have a lot of great ideas for story arcs and characters that I can't wait to implement in the RP.

Good to hear it! As of right now, you, myself, and Kannap are the only three Mediterranean civs that have either been accepted or are in the process of finishing the app.

I am honestly surprised no one has chosen Egypt or Mesopotamia as their starting point.

[Great Franconia and Verana]

Also I do want to clarify something that was TG'd to me.

You can make more than one City state, ao long as the second one is a great distance from your first, and interactions between them are not biased if they ever do come into contact.

[Pentapolitan Kyrene]

Did someone say Mesopotamia? I'm up for it, but I must ask why you decided to go for 500 BC as the start date without any other historical nations existing. Why not go for 3000 BC, or some time period when there really weren't many major states kicking around? Why start in 500 BC if Persia, Sparta and Rome don't exist? Is civilization supposed to have just begun, in the Iron age, or has there been some kind of collapse, or what?

[Great Franconia and Verana]

Did someone say Mesopotamia? I'm up for it, but I must ask why you decided to go for 500 BC as the start date without any other historical nations existing. Why not go for 3000 BC, or some time period when there really weren't many major states kicking around? Why start in 500 BC if Persia, Sparta and Rome don't exist? Is civilization supposed to have just begun, in the Iron age, or has there been some kind of collapse, or what?

Merely because it would be hard to travel such vast distances in time in the early game without people falling behind. It is also easier to start with a city and a bit of territory than from nothing.

In any case, I look forward to your app!

[Skarten]

I'm just gonna have to say it again, i think that expansion should be done through RP, not as in, colonization. It's 500 BC, there are many other civilizations. If one looks to expand, they should RP either fighting off the native tribes or doing something else (A.k.a. Settling in with advanced, walled cities, which would likely have to be defended).

You get what i mean.

[Andsed]

I'm just gonna have to say it again, i think that expansion should be done through RP, not as in, colonization. It's 500 BC, there are many other civilizations. If one looks to expand, they should RP either fighting off the native tribes or doing something else (A.k.a. Settling in with advanced, walled cities, which would likely have to be defended).

You get what i mean.

I am pretty sure he said that right here:

I will be updating the Map later today with everyone who is accepted.

There was a concern raised about hoe to handle territorial expansion. Does anyone have other ideas than the one outlined in the OP?

If the main concern is RP related, one must still RP out the colonization of the region even when receiving it at the end of the three day period.

[Skarten]

I'm just gonna have to say it again, i think that expansion should be done through RP, not as in, colonization. It's 500 BC, there are many other civilizations. If one looks to expand, they should RP either fighting off the native tribes or doing something else (A.k.a. Settling in with advanced, walled cities, which would likely have to be defended).

You get what i mean.

I am pretty sure he said that right here:

I will be updating the Map later today with everyone who is accepted.

There was a concern raised about hoe to handle territorial expansion. Does anyone have other ideas than the one outlined in the OP?

If the main concern is RP related, one must still RP out the colonization of the region even when receiving it at the end of the three day period.

Well, i must then repeat, that the thing is that there would be other civilizations. I would understand if it was, for example, a greek nation making a trade post in the Gaul, but i don't think it would be fit for someone to go and "colonize" the Lower Nile as Pergammon

In my opinion, it should be less of a "3 days and you can expand again", and more of a "Do it Realistically"

[Great Franconia and Verana]

I am pretty sure he said that right here:

Well, i must then repeat, that the thing is that there would be other civilizations. I would understand if it was, for example, a greek nation making a trade post in the Gaul, but i don't think it would be fit for someone to go and "colonize" the Lower Nile as Pergammon

In my opinion, it should be less of a "3 days and you can expand again", and more of a "Do it Realistically"

It is realistic.
It must be a territory adjacent to your own by land or sea. So a nation near Pergamon could not even reach the Nile Delta much less Thebes or Aswan. This aspect of game mechanics is in the OP.

And you are correct, there are many other civilizations. But those will be the other players, not NPC's.

[Skarten]

Well, i must then repeat, that the thing is that there would be other civilizations. I would understand if it was, for example, a greek nation making a trade post in the Gaul, but i don't think it would be fit for someone to go and "colonize" the Lower Nile as Pergammon

In my opinion, it should be less of a "3 days and you can expand again", and more of a "Do it Realistically"

It is realistic.
It must be a territory adjacent to your own by land or sea. So a nation near Pergamon could not even reach the Nile Delta much less Thebes or Aswan. This aspect of game mechanics is in the OP.

And you are correct, there are many other civilizations. But those will be the other players, not NPC's.

Well, it's just my opinion that there should be NPC Civilizations.

There should be fighting when taking a new province, pretty much always, unless you're becoming a confederation or something. Raids, for example, should be something that has to be taken into account.

[Great Franconia and Verana]

It is realistic.
It must be a territory adjacent to your own by land or sea. So a nation near Pergamon could not even reach the Nile Delta much less Thebes or Aswan. This aspect of game mechanics is in the OP.

And you are correct, there are many other civilizations. But those will be the other players, not NPC's.

Well, it's just my opinion that there should be NPC Civilizations.

There should be fighting when taking a new province, pretty much always, unless you're becoming a confederation or something. Raids, for example, should be something that has to be taken into account.

There will be fighting, there will be raids, there will be all that, but between players. The Ancient World was not populated by a huge amount of civilizations, there was plenty of empty land.

Not to mention, the logistics of managing NPC civs in a game like this would be far too burdensome.

[Skarten]

Well, it's just my opinion that there should be NPC Civilizations.

There should be fighting when taking a new province, pretty much always, unless you're becoming a confederation or something. Raids, for example, should be something that has to be taken into account.

There will be fighting, there will be raids, there will be all that, but between players. The Ancient World was not populated by a huge amount of civilizations, there was plenty of empty land.

Not to mention, the logistics of managing NPC civs in a game like this would be far too burdensome.

Well, i'm not saying there should be entire things with apps and stats and so- What i am saying, homewver, is that part of the colonization proccess should be fighting off natives, even if just tribes. You don't need to make a 10 post war about it, i'm just saying that it would be more realistic if people had to do it as part of the way to expand.

[Andsed]

There will be fighting, there will be raids, there will be all that, but between players. The Ancient World was not populated by a huge amount of civilizations, there was plenty of empty land.

Not to mention, the logistics of managing NPC civs in a game like this would be far too burdensome.

Well, i'm not saying there should be entire things with apps and stats and so- What i am saying, homewver, is that part of the colonization proccess should be fighting off natives, even if just tribes. You don't need to make a 10 post war about it, i'm just saying that it would be more realistic if people had to do it as part of the way to expand.

Agreed also the player expanding could be the one who makes up and runs the tribes for the one to two post war.