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THE DEBATABLE LANDS (OOC/Sign-Ups) [Closed]

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Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 2531
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

THE DEBATABLE LANDS (OOC/Sign-Ups) [Closed]

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:08 am

  • While all aspects of this RP will remain consistent with forum rules, this is also the story of a violent and terrible time in human history, and I intend to deal with this aspect of the period seriously. If graphic content is traumatizing to you by reason of age or past experiences, then I advise you to follow or participate in this RP only with due caution. Thank you.
  • This RP deals with a little-known and much-misunderstood period of human history. I will try to provide a feel for the time and place, both OOC and IC, but I also expect you to do the research to fact-check your own posts, and to edit those posts if I find egregious errors therein. If this is unacceptable to you, then you need not waste your time by reading any further.
  • Credit for the inspiration of the design of this OP goes to the brilliant and talented Evraim. Thanks, Ev!

Nationstatelandsville wrote:
  • [Award for Best] Other Fantasy [RP]: The Debatable Lands, because holy shit you guys, actually read it. Norv, being himself an immortal ghost bound to defend the innocent as punishment for killing Abel, evidently remembers a lot of the borderlands. And fairies.... Seriously; it's like Lovecraft and Tolkien had a horrible baby and raised it in a Scottish bog.


THE DEBATABLE LANDS
BLOOD ON THE MOORS

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The Border

O HAVE ye na heard o the fause Sakelde? O have ye na heard o the keen Lord Scroop? How they hae taen bauld Kinmont Willie, On Haribee for to hang him up?
The Ballad of Kinmont Willie, 16th Century


* * *

BLIND HAMISH ELLIOT
Aye, tis a cruel world we live in, and nae mistake.

They call us the Reivers, the milkdrinkers who live far from the Border and bow to kings, who imagine themselves English or Scottish and not free men bound to kith and kin and not to an iron chair. We know better. Here along the Border, in the year of our Lord 1567, we know who we are: na Scots and na English, but Border names all and sundry, bound one to the other by blood and feud and vengeance – aye, and by music and love and old, strong tales as well. We raid each other to survive, and the Border makes na difference to any of us.

How did it come to be this way? None now live who remember. Ever since William the Frenchmen conquered England all those hundreds of years ago, Scottish armies have marched south into England and English armies have marched north into Scotland. Tis not so far from the Border either to York or to Edinburgh and Glasgow – yet those cities always stood strong, even as our homes were burned. Five hundred years of war took its toll. Those who could leave, left. Those who could not stayed, and watched their homes and crops burned over and over again.

In the end, the land could na longer yield crops; it was bare rock and heather, empty moors. We who remained took to grazing cattle, for twas the only livelihood left to us. Na the king in London na the king in Edinburgh cared for us, save when they swept through wi fire and wi sword for to fight their damn wars. They appointed Wardens on the Borders ta keep the peace, and they left us ta our misery.
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And so we took care of ourselves. We bound together, as families, and put our faith in our own strength and our own cunning. That was the start of the Names: Armstrong, Crozier, Scott, Douglas, Reed, Frasier, Graham, Kerr. The men and women wha shared that name would live together, sometimes in their hundreds or thousands, and protect each other and their land. The oldest and strongest and cleverest man who bears a name would be acclaimed the chieftain by all the others, and he would lead them, and he would be known only as “the Armstrong” or “the Kerr.” Some Names are so numerous that they are divided up; there are the Scotts of Buccleuch, great Wardens and men o’ law, and there are the Scotts of Harden, mighty raiders. Some small Names pay manrent to greater Names, promising ta fight for them in return for protection. But all Names have this much in common: they are bound by blood and not by money, and a man’s loyalty to them is absolute – for membership in a Name is the only thing that can keep a man alive on the Border.

But the land was barren, and there were never enough cattle to feed all of the Names at once. And so the Reiving began, ye ken, for a man who knew the land – the mountains and hills, the moors and the wee streams, the bracken and the forest – such a man could slip across the border of a night and make off with a hundred head of cattle before dawn broke. He could double his family’s fortune in a week, if another man didna steal the cattle in his own turn. And so the Names raided: back and forth across the border, cattle for cattle, blood for blood. Twas nothing ta do wi English or wi Scots; we do this for ta feed our families, and that is all.

But once ye start taking blood for blood, it never seems to end when it ought. When a man dies on the border, his property is divided equally among all his sons – and so enough cattle for one man is split among five men, and none o the five has enough ta live on – and so he raids because he must. But he does other things, too. He steals insight – that being silver or weapons or other goods that a man could carry off in his saddlebags. He burns homes, so that those who can now live in mighty tower houses of stone. He carries off the children of the other Names for ransom. He rapes their women. He kills. When a man is raised as we are, raised from birth ta raid and kill because tis the only life he’ll ever know – then a man kills because tis all that he is good for. And so blood piles on blood, and vengeance becomes a way of life.

And so we live now. We raid anyone, on either side of the Border, so long as them that we raid have na protectors and na ties ta us – a man never raids folk of his own Name, or he will be disnamed, and a man without kin is naught but a dead man walking. Though we raid the whole year round, we ride the oftenest in the autumn and early winter months, when the nights be longest and the cattle have grown fat upon the summer grazing. We raid in groups of a few dozen, sometimes even a few hundred. We ride upon our ponies and nags – na mighty knights’ chargers, but they can run all night and pick their way over rock and bog where a larger horse would snap a leg or sink into the mud. We can ride like the wind – they call us the finest light cavalry in all of Europe, for all that we have but little steel between us. A man wears a jack o’ plaite – a doublet stitched wi wee pieces o steel for protection - and a steel helmet ta boot, if he be lucky. They call us the steel bonnets for that self-same reason. When a man goes a-reiving, he bears a lance and a buckler, a sword and dirk, and a wee one-handed crossbow called a latch. A few men carry pistols, but they are dear in price and rare ta find. And we ride wi hounds – sleuth hounds, they are called – that can follow a scent across stone and stream, and break a man’s arm in their jaws.

We live in bastle houses, wi roofs of slate and stone walls three foot thick. The houses have two stories: where the lower story keeps the cattle and horses safe and the upper story houses the people. A man can reach that upper story only by an outside ladder, the which can be pulled up at any time. The chieftain o a great Name can build a true tower house, many stories high.

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We all know each other, ye ken. We have all married back and forth across the Border, and we have na loyalty ta any king. We say that we are “Scottish if forced, English at will, and Reiver by the grace o blood.” We care not ta fight for kings or armies, but we will fight for our kin and our cattle and the bond of vengeance. And we have our own law, the Border Law, drawn from our own traditions. A man who has been raided has the right to raid in return, after his lost cattle, so long as he does so within six days. This raid is called the Hot Trod, and it must make a deal of noise and go bearing torches, to distinguish it from a secret raid i’ the night.

More often, though, the Hot Trod is but the first blow in a feud. A Name is nothing if it does not show strength; if a man believes that he can quarrel with another without fear of retaliation, then the victim’s Name is worse than useless. And so we fight. A Reed quarrels with an Kerr on the road, so the Kerrs steals the Reeds’ cattle, so the Reeds burns the Kerrs’ homes, so the Kerrs kidnap the Reeds’ children, so the Reeds kill every Kerr they can find. Sometimes, feuds even break out between men o the same Name. Tis a rare Reiver who, like me, grows old enough to die in his bed.

And the kings in their courts? Sometimes they come with an army and try to stamp us out. We take our cattle and flee into the mountains, and endure. Sometimes they give us gifts and treasure, because we serve as the first line o defense against invasion by the king on the other side of the border. We take their money, and wait for the next war.

The kings on each side of the border each appoint three Wardens – a Warden of the West Marches, the Middle Marches, and the East Marches – six in all. If a feud grows sae terrible that it might set the whole border alight, the Wardens step in to force a truce. They are rarely good for aught. The Scottish Wardens are but the biggest Reivers of all; the English Wardens are milk-drinking southerners whom not a Borderer respects one whit. We raid despite them, and we pay blood back wi blood. But the Wardens do have one true use: they oversee the Days of Truce, when all raiding and feuding stops, and we meet together to trade our goods and betroth our children, and to see our kin by marriage who are enemies on every other day. A Day of Truce is all music and celebration; they are lovely times. On a Day of Truce, a man can put the blood aside for one day and share the old dream of peace.


* * *


The Otherworld

O drowsy, drowsy as I was! Dead sleep upon me fell; The Queen of Fairies she was there, And took me to hersell. The Elfins is a pretty place, In which I love to dwell, But yet at every seven years’ end The last here goes to hell; And as I am ane o flesh and blood, I fear the next be mysell.
The Ballad of Tam Lin, 16th Century


* * *

MITHER LILEAS ELLIOT
For all his talk o peace, old blind Hamish is still in love wi the killing. Next to all the men are, and how can ye find that surprising? When they were but babes, swords were pressed into their hands. But we women have another tale to tell: a tale of old truths and shadows in the dark, a tale of stories and songs around campfires in which the final true strength is found.

Women are the guardians of the old knowledge, the secret knowledge. Women are born, sometimes, with the Second Sight: the ability to see things hidden from the eyes of other folk. Women sing the ballads that contain our history and that teach us who we are. And in singing, and in remembering, we women preserve a humanity that all the killing and all the feuds is na strong enow to wipe out. We sing songs of love, and mercy, and compassion, and sacrifice. We sing songs that remind us of what we are, and what we are not.

We are the guardians of our history, as well. A hundred and fifty years ago, the Douglasses and the Percys clashed at Otterburn. We remember that battle now, and who fought there, and who fell, and where, and why. We remember it not because it was written down, but because we have sung the ballad of its carnage and its glory ever since. And the ballads hold darker histories too, disguised as myth and legend. Within the ancient words of the Ballad of Tam Lin lie many truths about the kingdom of the Fair Folk that exists in the empty lands of the Border, truths that we women remember only too well.

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I have the Sight. A fair number of other women have it as well. Many are born with it; in a few, it is cultivated through training by older women, or through the experience of suffering. But there are a very, very few women – women in whom the Sight is strong indeed, and who have suffered greatly, and who have been raised by wise women themselves – who have power beyond merely seeing the hidden world within our own. They can reach out to it, touch it, command it. They can speak with the Fair Folk and bind them to their will; eight times they can transform into a great black cat with a white spot upon its chest, but if they do so a ninth time, then they are doomed to remain a cat forever. Such women are witches, and did they live anywhere else, the church would burn them. But this is the Border, and if such women bear a Name, then they have a hundred swords who will stand between them and any angry priest.

What do we see, in that world beyond? We see that there is life teeming all around us, life that is hidden from the eyes of men until it chooses to reveal itself. Some of these dwellers behind the veil are benign. Billy Blind is a spirit of hearth and home, a wee man clad in a red hood, who appears to offer advice and council. The dunnies are spirits – some say that they are the ghosts of men who died alone in the high fells – who will take the form of a horse or ox, and lead a man to treasure or to doom. The Green Man o’ the Wood is a shy spirit, kind to children, yet terribly strong; he appears at night, amid birch groves. The shellycoats are bodiless voices that dwell in streams; they lead travellers astray, but they also whisper secrets. Water bulls may take the form of a bull or of a young man, and dwell in lakes; they mate with cows to produce cattle of great strength and beauty, with distinctive stunted ears. And there is the gigelorum: a creature so tiny that it can live within the ear of a flea, and pass unseen in the chambers of kings.

But there are also creatures of terrible power and malice in the Otherworld: we call them wirry-cows, monsters that mean ill to mankind. The greatest of these are the Fair Folk, a whole race of beings of terrible magical might. They are beautiful to gaze upon, but can change at a moment’s notice to forms of horrible hideousness. They have their own queens, and armies, and cities beneath the Earth in the land of Elfhame. The Folk are strong in hawthorne groves, and among standing stones, and in the high desolate places of the Earth; it does not do to tarry in such places, lest ye attract their wrath, and never be seen again. No one knows why the Fair Folk hate us mortals, but hate us they do, and they will ever seek to work us ill. They will abduct a child from the mother’s breast and replace him with an elfen bairn, whom the witless mother will raise as her own whilst her own flesh and blood grows up in Elfhame; such children are known as changelings. Witches can sometimes call upon the Fair Folk and make common cause against some mortal foe that the Fair Ones and the witch have in common. With the help of the Folk, a witch can slay a man with a whisper, or bottle a baby up in the womb, or change a child into a heather bush.

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And there are more terrible wirry-cows still. The Washer at the Ford is a ghostly woman who stands in a stream, and washes the blood from the grave-clothes of those who are about to die. To see her is to know that your death is nigh. The bodachs are demons who appear in great numbers to finish a man off when he is already near to death; they carry off children in the night from locked bastle houses. Trolls live beneath bridges and in caves, and are great horny monsters twice the size of a man – but they do na attack unless ye approach. The Green Wolf, a creature the size of a bull, will stalk men and let out three barks that can be heard for miles around; if a man does not reach the safety o a threshold afore the third bark, then he will be overcome wi terror ta the point o death. The Green Lady, a beautiful woman wi the legs o a goat hidden beneath her skirt, will appear to men and lure them to her lair, and then drink their blood. The kelpies are great black horses that dwell in pools and streams; they emerge ta devour a man whole, and spit his entrails out ta the water’s side. They can take the form o a handsome young man wi water weeds in his hair, and they fall apart ta green pulp when they die.

Aye, the world is full o more terrible things than swords and guns, my child – and most terrible of all is that the Otherworld’s creatures are invisible to all but a few o us, until they choose ta make themselves known. But we have wisdom by which ta ken them, preserved in ballad and tale. And for those few women wi the Second Sight, the Otherworld can be seen as clear as day – in all its beauty, and its terror.


* * *


Clan Elliot and the Debatable Lands


This began on a Monday at morn, In Cheviot the hills so hye; The child may rue that is unborn, It was the more pity…They were twenty hundred spearmen good, Withouten any fail: They were borne along by the water o’Tweed I’ the boun’s o’ Teviotdale.
The Ballad of Chevy Chase, 15th Century


* * *

RED DUNCAN ELLIOT
Now the Elliots might not be the equal o’ kings, like the Percys or the Douglasses, and they might not be mad war-dogs like the Armstrongs or the Scotts, and they might not be great castle-lords like the Hepburns o’ the Hermitage. But what we are, we are: proud reivers of the Debatable Lands, and there is no man alive as can claim to be our lord or master.

As Blind Hamish told ye, the whole of the Borderlands are a fierce and lawless land. But there is one place in particular that is bloodier than all others: the Debatable Lands. A stretch of the western Border running from the Solway Firth and the River Sark to the River Esk and the River Liddel. It is ten miles from north to south and four miles wide. And no one knows who owns it – on which account they call it Debatable. Oh, ten years back the kings in Edinburgh and London agreed upon a border, and they put up stones, and dug a ditch, but we all know that that was but a legal fiction. The Debatable Lands are so called because for three hundred years, the two kings could not agree on which country the Lands belonged in. For three hundred years, the Border Names governed themselves in these lands. And a king cannot wipe away three hundred years of history wi a treaty and a few ditches. We are the Elliots of the Debatable Lands. Never in our history have we bent the knee to any crown, English or Scottish. And we never will.

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The great towers of the Elliots lie in Roxburghshire, at the far end of the Border, and so do our origins: we came originally from Redheugh, north of Newcastle, on the shores of the North Sea. Our lands there and in Liddesdale were first given to us by Robert, bastard son o the great Bruce himself. But there has been a branch of our Name active in the Debatable Lands for centuries – here, a man can raid without any fear of the authorities at all, and if he has the strength to resist being raided in return, then he can grow prosperous as nowhere else. As time went by, we grew strong; our towers dot the cliffs of the Debatable Lands, and from our stronghold here at Harelaw Tower we reive against the small English Names across the border – the Nixons, the Olivers, the Bells. Our neighbors are the Armstrongs, and they are stronger and more numerous than we, and vicious ta boot. They can put three thousand men in the saddle, and they feud to the death, and tis better ta kill your women than to let them take her. But we and they have a long-honored understanding: the Armstrongs do na touch us, and we do na give them reason to do so. Much blood is thus avoided.

But we Elliots have our own feuds. Two years ago, the Scott of Buccleuch, acting as Warden o the Crown, executed four of our own for cattle thievery. No man o a great name has been executed on the border for such a crime within living memory – twas an attack by the Scotts, not the king’s justice. We will avenge it. And Little Jock Elliot o Park, not one year past, did wound James Hepburn o the Hermitage in the Cheviot Hills – aye, and Hepburn was the love of Mary the queen in Edinburgh, and sure the Queen’s men will come to avenge him, soon or late.

Even here, though, the world has changed greatly in my lifetime. It all began wi the birth o wee Mary the Queen o Scots. Henry the king in London wanted her ta grow up ta wed the prince of England, Edward, and so he took his army north ta force the Scots ta agree. They wouldna, and so Henry laid waste the Border for seven long years; the war began twenty-four years ago, and ended seventeen years ago. Henry swept through wi thousands o soldiers, killing all the cattle, tearing the bastle houses stone from stone, hanging all who wouldna cooperate wi him from the nearest tree. Twas a new kind o war, a war fought by mercenaries and cannon, and we in the Borderlands knew not how ta fight it. In the end, the king in Edinburgh and his French allies drove mad Henry back – but he left the Border in ruins, and we Reivers had to fight more bloodily than ever for the few cattle and good grazing lands that remained. They call it the Rough Wooing.

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And then came the religious troubles. We on the Border are pious folk, after our fashion, but we care but little for the squabbles of priests. Our faith is simpler: God brings us onto the Earth, guards us safe in battle, lays us softly in the ground when our time is come. The pope is nothing to us, and the high talkers in Geneva are even less. And so I do na fully ken what it was that the Protestant lords fought so fiercely for. They took up arms against the Queen Regent, Mary of Guise, who ruled in the place o her wee daughter, and they won: for seven years now, Scotland has been a Protestant country. We on the Border care little for such matters, for the most part, but there are exceptions: while we Elliots have largely accepted the new faith, the Scotts are obstinate papists. And when Protestants reive, we now smash the stained-glass windows and idolatrous statues of Roman churches. Perhaps we believe that it it is God’s work to do so, and perhaps we do not. But either way, it is another blow that we can strike against our enemies.

The future is dark. Soon, the queen’s men will ride against all Elliots in vengeance for Little Jock’s attack on James Hepburn. In these lean times after the Rough Wooing, our truce with the Armstrongs wears thin. Religious strife turns brother against brother, and threatens to tear our own Names apart. We must ride soon against the mighty Scotts, and all those who back them, or see our name dishonored and our homes made easy targets. And the old wise women whisper around the hearthfires of things moving in the dark, of ancient evil on the rise, of the veil drawing thin and the Otherworld pushing through.

There are terrible days ahead. I feel it in my bones. But we will weather them as we have always done: our knee unbent, standing together as one. That is the Elliot way.
Last edited by Reverend Norv on Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:50 am, edited 8 times in total.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

User avatar
Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 2531
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:09 am

THE RULES, AND GENERAL OBSERVATIONS


The OOC

  • If you are involved in this RP, then this is an open OOC. Feel free to discuss anything and everything, whether it has to do with the story or not.

  • This is a little-known historical period, poised on the knife-edge between the medieval and the modern worlds. I hope that it will interest you, and that you will do some research of your own. But I can guarantee you that if you have any historical questions, I will find the answers for you. Just post your question to the OOC, and I will add it – and the answer – to the historical FAQs below.

  • I understand that people have scheduling issues. I have them myself. This will move slowly sometimes, and rapidly at other times. The key is that if you drop off the map for a few days, post to the OOC first. And try to keep the OOC lively even if the IC is moving slowly; that way, we will all remain invested and ready to jump back into the action when peoples’ schedules free up.

The Roleplay

  • So at least one of you is still wondering what the hell this is. The answer: this is a historical fantasy RP set in 1567, in the area of the Anglo-Scots border called the Debatable Lands. It deals with the border reivers, who are the greatest badasses in Western European history. Our story is concerned with family feuds, raids, rivalries, rapes, and general swashbuckling under leaden skies. For details, read the lore in the OP.

  • The twist is that supernatural creatures are real – but only insofar as people at the time actually believed in them. This is what I like to call an anthropologist’s fantasy story: the Otherworld is folklore come to life, but none of the characters should be surprised by this, because they all believed that the Otherworld was real anyway (that’s why it’s called folklore). In this reality, the only difference is that they are right.

  • So the supernatural presence in this RP is amorphous, based on folklore, and supernatural creatures will have that creepy not-quite-real feeling that you get from actual folklore rather than from modern pseudoscientific reinterpretations.

  • A few things that should be clear from the lore, but that I want to make totally explicit: you are all members of a cadet branch of the Elliot family, living in the utterly lawless Debatable Lands of the western border. You will start out with predetermined relationships; you are all related, and you have all grown up together. Think of a Highland clan for reference, or a vast sprawling hillbilly family from West Virginia, and you will start to get the picture. The interconnected relationships of PCs and NPCs will be outlined below.

  • This is the sixteenth century. Gender roles are a thing. If you are a man, and able-bodied, then you are a reiver. If you are a woman, then you do not ride out with the men on forays – though you may well know how to use a sword to defend yourself. On the other hand, the Second Sight appears only among women (and even then only rarely), and never among men. So when you choose your character’s gender, you are also choosing their role in the world.

  • Your characters do not have to speak in dialect. If you want them to do so, just replace “to” with “ta”, “of” with “o”, “with” with “wi”, and “not” with “na” – but that is purely optional. However, please avoid any obvious modernisms; remember that these people are living in the sixteenth century. Similarly, avoid imposing your own values on them. These people do not believe in democracy, or gender equality, or peace and tolerance. They do believe in ghosts, and the Fair Folk, and the devil. That is their world. As writers, it is our challenge to enter into it.

  • Finally, have fun. This is, ultimately, a swashbuckling adventure. There will be romance, rescues, hairsbreadth escapes, horseback chases across the moors, and more swordfights than you can shake a stick at. Humor is welcome! If you want to make fun of your characters, then go ahead. If it doesn’t violate these rules, and it’s fun for you, then do it. It is that simple.

The Commandments

  • We always do the stuff about me being OP, and my authoritaaah, and courtesy and self-control, and so on. I’m going to assume that if I let you in the door, you know all of this already. Don’t disappoint me.

  • Keep it PG-13, or put the heavy stuff in clearly marked spoilers. Yes, this is a dark and terrible period of history, in which horrific things happened to innocent people. But there are twelve-year-olds on this forum. Bear that in mind.

  • Read the lore in the first post. Seriously, it will save you a lot of research. If you still have a historical question, then begin by Wikipedia-ing it. If that does not do the trick, then post your question here in the OOC, and I will put the answer in the FAQs below. If it’s a really minor thing, just go ahead and make it up. I’ll let you know if there’s an issue.

  • Border reivers were the finest light cavalry in Europe. They were born with a sword in their hand. They were also mostly illiterate, and very much a product of their time. Your characters can be awesome, but they will also be very alien to modern observer. Remember that.

  • When it comes to the supernatural, mostly wait for me to introduce it; at that point, female characters with Second Sight will get their chance to shine. But this is a delicate issue, given that I am trying to do something different with “magic” – I am trying to present it from the perspective of people who genuinely believed that it was real. At least to start with, let me shape how the Otherworld is presented.

  • I have a tendancy to be the one of the most consistently dark, brooding, and serious writers on P2TM, and there may be some of that here – but there’s also going to be room for fun, horseplay, pranks, swordfights, camaraderie, shipping, and lots and lots of chase scenes. So feel free to unwind – it’s not going to be constant angst and tension. Let this be fun.

  • I have a basic plotline, but it’s more a sense of where the arc is going to go than a sequence of events. I’ll flesh the main story out as time goes on, but we’re going to get there through a long and happy series of side missions. And those, y’all will have plenty of input in. So speak up if you have ideas! We’re writing this together.
Last edited by Reverend Norv on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

User avatar
Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 2531
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:09 am

THE APPLICATION AND POWERGRID


Credit to Nightkill for most of the powergrid. I stole it in violation of all my principles – that’s how good it is. Mostly, I just chopped the superhuman stuff off – because y’all are normal, remember?

Below are your stats. You have TEN points to distribute. This will shape your encounters with the world, with NPCs, and with other player characters. I expect you to justify any above-average stats in your bio. Take note, as well, that I may boost your stats as the RP goes on, in response to plot events.

How smart you are. I won’t be rolling any dice, but I will take this stat into account when characters play chess, or match wits in any other way, with each other or with NPCs.

0 - Mindless
Mindless drone, driven by primal instinct. Or just a vegetable. Either way, you are very, very dumb. You are illiterate

1 – Dabbler
Easily confused. The best laid of plans of mice and men is a phrase you don't know the meaning of. Literally. Multi tasking is a chore for you. You need to focus on one action at a time and are easily confused with complex strategies. You are illiterate

2 - Average
Puzzled, but productive. You can work on two things at a time, but giving it your best falls short. When chasing two rabbits, you usually lose both. Patterns and formulas do not come to you naturally, but when faced with the same event again, you can apply previous knowledge. You are illiterate, but may well know a useful craft.

3 - Above Average
Productive member of society. You can work diligently in an environment, and can figure out logical solutions to patterns and formulas. You’re pretty smart. You likely know a craft, and may be partially literate. Your advice is likely sought out on complex issues.

4 - Genius
You’re as smart as normal humans get. You may well make new discoveries in any field to which you apply yourself, and you’ve no doubt known from an early age that you’re just not like other people. You are literate, and you know several crafts.
This is for when you attack someone physically, with punches and such. Goes by the same principle as the INT above. Also determines how much weight you can lift (see brackets).

Equivalence Levels:
0 - Pathetic (0 - 50 lbs)
You’re a child, basically, or a cripple. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
1- Weak/Average (50 - 150 lbs)
You are skinny, sure, but so is everyone in 1567. You can still swing a sword hard enough to kill a man.
2 – Fit (150 - 250 lbs)
You are notably strong, but no more so than any of the Elliots’ top-tier warriors.
3 - Bodybuilder (250 - 600 lbs)
You are among the strongest men in the Debatable Lands, or maybe on the whole Border.
4 - Peak Human (650 - 1000 lb)
You are the strongest man in the Debatable Lands, hands down, and you are known far and wide for your physical prowess.
This decides your total health points. Again, I’m not going to use formulas here, but it will be taken into account in RPing.

Equivalence Levels:
0 - Fragile
Body is weak, frail, sickly or possibly underdeveloped. Your stamina and general physical constitution could be likened to that of either an infant or an elderly person. Either way, it's probably best you not get into fights; or any kinds of physical activity, for that matter.

1 - Weak/Average
You are skinny. You can take a few punches from an average person, but really that's about all. Your stamina is pretty low too. You can run for a mile or so before exhaustion sets in.

2 - Fit
You are noticeably tougher than most folk, but hardly extraordinary. You can take a cudgel to the head and keep fighting, and you can run for most of an hour before you collapse. You are about as tough as most warriors.

3 - Athlete
You are well-known for your sheer endurance. You can keep on fighting with a sword through your shoulder or your leg, and you can run for hours without a break. Even among hard men, you are known for your toughness.

4 - Peak Human
You can run more or less indefinitely, go for days without sleep, fight with multiple broken bones, survive falls from great heights, and generally endure punishmen and physical stress that would kill most men. You are probably notorious for this across the Debatable Lands.
This measures not just the ability to move quickly, but also one’s agility and even flexibility. Average running speed is listed between brackets, as an easy tool of comparison.

Equivalence Levels
0 - Cripple (Cannot walk on your own)
1 - Average (6 mph -12 mph)
2 - Slightly above average- 12 mph- 20 mph)
3 - Track Runner (20 mph - 25 mph)
Your fighting skills. This refers to shooting as well as hand-to-hand combat. I’m both an excellent shot and a serious martial artist, so if you pick a high level but have no idea how to RP it effectively, I will call you on any glaring inconsistencies. Ye be warned.

0 - Comatose baby
You don't even have any basic fighting instinct. If you are attacked, you will die.

1 - Untrained
You have no training and little to no experience. You almost lack the ability to throw a decently placed punch and would stand no chance in a hand to hand fight with someone with even a little bit of training. In practice, only women, children, or cripples will fall into this category.

2 - Trained
You have been raised with a sword in your hand, and you’ve seen your share of fights. There are plenty of folk more skillful than you, but you would make short work of any milk-drinker from outside the Border who hadn’t been raised as you have been. All able-bodied men will have this level of skill.

3 - Well-Trained
You are well-known as an uncommonly skillful warrior; you may be a grizzled veteran, and you likely train other Elliots with the sword or latch or pistol. Your skill may come from a father or uncle who was vastly experienced, or you may be vastly experienced yourself. Either way, you stand out.

4 - Master
You are one of the most fearsome warriors in the Debatable Lands, a veteran of a thousand battles and nearly invincible with a blade in your hand. Men know and fear your name for miles around. You are almost certainly over thirty, and you have been a warrior all your life.


Code: Select all
[align=center][b]APPLICATION[/b][/align]

[b]Name[/b]:

[b]Gender[/b]:

[b]Age[/b]:

[b]Appearance[/b]:

[b]Powergrid Attributes[/b]:

[b]Armor, Weapons, and Possessions[/b]:

[b]Personality[/b]:

[b]Abilities and Talents[/b]:

[b]Weaknesses and Fears[/b]:

[b]Likes (optional)[/b]:

[b]Dislikes (optional)[/b]:

[b]Personal History[/b]:
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 2531
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:09 am

DRAMATIS PERSONAE

(This will be updated as time goes on)


Player Characters

  • Isobel Elliot, nee Jardine: Widow of Four-fingers Tam Elliot, who was executed by the Scott of Buccleuch. A brilliant, damaged, arrogant woman with a powerful Second Sight; she is also a dangerous witch.

  • Clever Duff Elliot: A brilliant young man, uncommonly literate, with a discerning mind. He is scholarly, and has a gift for dissimulation; he is said to have killed Robin Dacre of Carlisle.

  • Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot: Clever Duff's younger sister; she is a wise and lovely lass with a sensitive soul uncalloused by the harshness of Border life. Fiona is literate, and the greatest musician of all the Elliots.

  • Robert Elliot: A tough ex-mercenary, recently returned from the Continent with a young Prussian wife. He is at feud with the Nixons and the Thomsons, and suspects that they are plotting some mischief against him.

  • Cracked Maisie Elliot: A strange woman, old before her time, who cracked her head upon a stone as a child and has never been the same since. No one knows quite what goes on inside her mind.

  • Job Elliot: The younger brother of Red Duncan Elliot, Job is a well-travelled ex-mercenary; he was pressed into service in the English army as a lad, and has now returned as one of his family's most valued Reivers.

  • Iron Kenneth Elliot: A very strong, formidably experienced Elliot Reiver, now getting on in years. Devoid of ambition, he serves as the clan's main smith. Unaccountably, many Elliots seem to regard him as a very wise man.

  • Walker Thom Elliot: A young man made cadaverous by a fever that he barely survived; he has wandered the Two Kingdoms only to return with many mysterious artifacts, and he is known for a silent warrior who strikes in the dark.

  • Willful Moira Elliot: A young woman with a notable tendency to mock her elders; Moira also has been gifted with a strong Second Sight and with a lovely singing voice. She is the sister of Tall Rory Elliot.

  • Tall Rory Elliot: A young Reiver of vast height and great appetite, who possesses considerable skill at arms and an admirably level head. He is the older brother of Willful Moira Elliot.

  • Elspeth Elliot, nee Johnstone: An aged and powerful witch, Elspeth has for decades been the widow of an Elliot Reiver. She bears the mental scars of a rape in her youth, and she cares for many of the younger Elliot women.

  • Willie the Wolf Elliot: A racketeer and fence of stolen goods, who rode with a gang of bandits; more recently, he has been possessed by a deep and abiding terror of the Otherworld.

  • Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot: A cold-blooded killer with a cowardly streak; Marcas is a small man skilled with the bow, who forswore reiving until Walter Scott hanged four Elliots. Now he is out for revenge.

  • Saintly Thomas Elliot: A biblical savant, and a Catholic in a predominately Protestant family, Saintly Thomas is a well-read but morose and sullen young man who possesses little skill at arms.


Non-Player Characters

Major
  • Roger Elliot, the Elliot of Harelaw: Heidsman of the Elliots in the Debatable Lands. A level-headed man, risk-averse; he lost his hand in battle, and now is growing simple with age. His strength wanes; his nephew Duncan is widely expected to succeed him.

  • Red Duncan Elliot: A terrifying and bloodthirsty warrior, the nephew of Roger Elliot, and a good friend of Little Jock Elliot. He is one of the finest swordsmen in the Debatable Lands, but he lacks good judgment, and he is notorious as a defiler of women.

  • Mither Lileas Elliot: Roger Elliot’s older sister, aged but still striking, known for her powerful Second Sight. She takes younger women with the Sight under her wing, and she acts as the sole effective restraining influence on Red Duncan.

  • Kinmont Willie Armstrong: A notorious reiver whose indiscriminate violence got him denamed from the Armstrongs, themselves the most indiscriminately violent of reivers to start with. He wanders the Debatable Lands with a gang of psychopaths, praying upon all and sundry.

  • Walter Scott, the Scott of Buccleuch: A famous old Scottish reiver, who became so wealthy and powerful that Mary of Guise made him Warden of the Scottish West Marches. He recently hanged four Elliots for cattle thieving, and thus declared a feud between the Elliots and the Scotts.

  • Thomas Dacre, the Dacre of Carlisle: The English Warden of the West Marches, an aged veteran of many wars. His sons are weaklings raised at court, and his young wife has given him only daughters. Clever Duff Elliot murdered one of these sons in his sleep, and thereby earned himself the lasting enmity of the rest of the Dacre clan.

Minor
  • Blind Hamish Elliot: A truly ancient old warrior, closing on ninety years old, who can remember more of the history of the Debatable Lands than anyone else in the area.

  • Reverend Joseph Elliot: The Calvinist minister at Harelaw, trained in Geneva; he was always regarded as a strange boy, and now he is seen as downright insufferable in his pietistic zeal. On the other hand, he is the only member of the Harelaw Elliots who can boast a proper education.

  • Four-fingers Tam Elliot (deceased): A gentle, kindly man with the heart of a lion. He and his three brothers were arrested by Walter Scott of Buccleuch and executed as cattle thieves, sparking the Elliot-Scott feud.

  • Louisa Elliot: Robert's quiet young Prussian wife, who is very far from home.

  • Hoary Rory Elliot: Walker Thom's father, an axe-wielding veteran Reiver, fond of telling tall tales. He is among the most physically strong of all the Elliots

  • White Duncan Elliot: A smaller, middle-aged, unmarried Reiver. He is reputed to be somewhat timid, and - to put it delicately - not over-fond of the ladies.
Last edited by Reverend Norv on Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:18 pm, edited 18 times in total.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 2531
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:10 am

CHARACTER RELATIONSHIPS


Isobel Elliot is the widow of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who loved her deeply), the niece by marriage of Roger Elliot (who doesn't trust her), the daughter-in-law of Mither Lileas Elliot (who taught her about the Otherworld), and the cousin by marriage of Red Duncan Elliot (who intermittently lusts after her). She is a third cousin by marriage of Joseph Elliot (who despises her) and a second cousin thrice removed of Blind Hamish Elliot (who thinks that she really needs a new husband). She is a cousin once removed by marriage of Clever Duff Elliot, a cousin once removed by marriage of Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, the second cousin by marriage of Robert Elliot, the second cousin by marriage of Cracked Maisie Elliot, the cousin by marriage of Job Elliot, the third cousin by marriage of Iron Kenneth Elliot, the third cousin once removed by marriage of Walker Thom Elliot, the third cousin once removed by marriage of Willful Moira Elliot and Tall Rory Elliot, the cousin once removed by marriage of Elspeth Elliot, the third cousin by marriage of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin once removed by marriage of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin once removed by marriage of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Clever Duff Elliot is the grand-nephew of Roger Elliot (who is puzzled by him), the grand-nephew of Mither Lileas Elliot (who finds him interesting), and the cousin once removed of Red Duncan Elliot (who holds him in contempt). He is a second cousin once removed of Joseph Elliot (who taught him to read, and thinks that he has great potential if only he would settle down and serve the Lord), a cousin once removed of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who thought that he needed to spend more time with a sword in his hand and less time with a book), and a second cousin four times removed of Blind Hamish Elliot (who shares Tam's opinion.) He is a cousin once removed by marriage of Isobel Elliot, the older brother of Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, the second cousin once removed of Robert Elliot, the cousin once removed of Job Elliot, the cousin once removed of Cracked Maisie Elliot, a distant relation of Iron Kenneth Elliot, a distant relation of Walker Thom Elliot, a second cousin of Willful Moira Elliot and Tall Rory Elliot, a grandson of Elspeth Elliot, a distant relation of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot is the grand-niece of Roger Elliot (who adores and dotes upon her), the grand-niece of Mither Lileas Elliot (who regards her as the future guardian of the Elliots' collective memory and lore), and the cousin once removed of Red Duncan Elliot (who likes her singing, but otherwise barely knows she exists). She is a second cousin once removed of Joseph Elliot (who taught her to read, admires her staunch Protestantism, and sometimes looks at her a little creepily), a cousin once removed of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who always treated her like a child, and loved her like a daughter), and a second cousin four times removed of Blind Hamish Elliot (who is deeply impressed by how many stories she knows.) She is a cousin once removed by marriage of Isobel Elliot, the younger sister of Clever Duff Elliot, the second cousin once removed of Robert Elliot, the cousin once removed of Job Elliot, the cousin once removed of Cracked Maisie Elliot, a distant relation of Iron Kenneth Elliot, a distant relation of Walker Thom Elliot, a second cousin of Willful Moira Elliot and Tall Rory Elliot, a granddaughter of Elspeth Elliot, a distant relation of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Robert Elliot is the second cousin twice removed of Roger Elliot (who respects him), the second cousin twice removed of Mither Lileas Elliot (who fears for him, and especially for his wife), and the third cousin once removed of Red Duncan Elliot (who feels threatened by him). He is a distant relation of Joseph Elliot (who likes to talk to him about the Continent), a second cousin of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who knew him only as a youth, but was kind to him), and a second cousin three times removed of Blind Hamish Elliot (who is suspicious of his foreign wife). He is the second cousin by marriage of Isobel Elliot, the second cousin once removed of Clever Duff Elliot, the second cousin once removed of Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, the older brother of Cracked Maisie Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Job Elliot, a distant relation of Iron Kenneth Elliot, a distant relation of Walker Thom Elliot, a third cousin once removed of Tall Rory and Willful Moira Elliot, a cousin once removed by marriage of Elspeth Elliot, a cousin of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Cracked Maisie Elliot is the second cousin twice removed of Roger Elliot (who finds her tiring), the second cousin twice removed of Mither Lileas Elliot (who cares for her, and thinks that there may be more to her than meets the eye), and the third cousin once removed of Red Duncan Elliot (who fears and loathes her because she makes him feel uncomfortable). She is a distant relation of Joseph Elliot (who grudgingly sees it as his job to take care of her), a second cousin of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who knew her little, but was always kind to her), and a second cousin three times removed of Blind Hamish Elliot (who staunchly believes that it is the clan's responsibility to look after her). She is the second cousin by marriage of Isobel Elliot, the second cousin once removed of Clever Duff Elliot, the second cousin once removed of Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, the younger sister (by eight years) of Robert Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Job Elliot, a distant relation of Iron Kenneth Elliot, a distant relation of Walker Thom Elliot, a third cousin once removed of Tall Rory and Willful Moira Elliot, a cousin once removed by marriage of Elspeth Elliot, a cousin of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Job Elliot is the nephew of Roger Elliot (who is almost pathetically glad to have him back), the nephew of Mither Lileas Elliot (who sees darkness and pain in his soul, and pities him), and the younger brother of Red Duncan Elliot (who is thrilled to have him back, but expects his brother's unconditional loyalty). He is a third cousin twice removed of Joseph Elliot (who is suspicious of his flexible religious convictions), a second cousin of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who knew him only as a youth, but was kind to him), and a third cousin three times removed of Blind Hamish Elliot (who disdains him for having ever fought for a crown, or for money). He is the cousin by marriage of Isobel Elliot, the cousin once removed of Clever Duff Elliot, the cousin once removed of Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, the second cousin once removed of Robert Elliot, the second cousin once removed of Cracked Maisie Elliot, the third cousin of Iron Kenneth Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Walker Thom Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Willful Moira Elliot and Tall Rory Elliot, the cousin once removed by marriage of Elspeth Elliot, the third cousin of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Iron Kenneth Elliot is the third cousin once removed of Roger Elliot (who prizes his loyalty), the third cousin once removed of Mither Lileas Elliot (who is amused by him), and the third cousin of Red Duncan Elliot (who thinks he's an oaf with a talent for mayhem). He is a distant relation of Joseph Elliot (who suspects him of popery), a third cousin of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who thought of him as a cool uncle), and a distant relation of Blind Hamish Elliot (who accords him the utmost respect as the living embodiment of everything a Reiver should be). He is the third cousin by marriage of Isobel Elliot, a distant relation of Clever Duff Elliot, a distant relation of Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, a distant relation of Robert Elliot, a distant relation of Cracked Maisie Elliot, the third cousin of Job Elliot, a second cousin once removed of Walker Thom Elliot, the great-uncle of Willful Moira Elliot and Tall Rory Elliot, the brother-in-law of Elspeth Elliot, a distant relation of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin twice removed of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin twice removed of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Walker Thom Elliot is the third cousin twice removed of Roger Elliot (who thinks he's useful but creepy), the third cousin twice removed of Mither Lileas Elliot (who gravely fears that he has somehow been marked by the Otherworld), and the third cousin once removed of Red Duncan Elliot (who is a little afraid of him, but finds his talents enormously useful). He is a distant relation of Joseph Elliot (who finds him very creepy, but cannot say anything because of Thom's staunch Protestantism), a third cousin of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who knew him only before his departure, and pitied his terrible luck), and a distant relation of Blind Hamish Elliot (who is deeply nonplussed by his unorthodox methods, but recognizes his usefulness). He is the third cousin once removed by marriage of Isobel Elliot, a distant relation of Clever Duff Elliot, a distant relation of Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, a distant relation of Robert Elliot, a distant relation of Cracked Maisie Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Job Elliot, a second cousin once removed of Iron Kenneth Elliot, a distant relation of Tall Rory Elliot and Willful Moira Elliot, a distant relation of Elspeth Elliot, the nephew of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Willful Moira Elliot is the third cousin twice removed of Roger Elliot (who regards her with benevolent tolerance), the third cousin twice removed of Mither Lileas Elliot (who appreciates her sharp wit), and the third cousin once removed of Red Duncan Elliot (whose ego her relative tolerance of him serves to comfort). She is a distant relation of Joseph Elliot (who strongly dislikes her independence of thought), a third cousin once removed of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who found her amusing), and a distant relation of Blind Hamish Elliot (who thinks that she is an obnoxious whippersnapper). She is the third cousin once removed by marriage of Isobel Elliot, a second cousin of Clever Duff Elliot and Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, a third cousin once removed of Robert Elliot and Cracked Maisie Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Job Elliot, a great-niece of Iron Kenneth Elliot, a distant relation of Walker Thom Elliot, the younger sister of Tall Rory Elliot, the great-niece by marriage of Elspeth Elliot, a distant relation of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Tall Rory Elliot is the third cousin twice removed of Roger Elliot (who sees him as a promising young warrior), the third cousin twice removed of Mither Lileas Elliot (who finds him rather boring, but sweet), and the third cousin once removed of Red Duncan Elliot (who regards him as a good friend). He is a distant relation of Joseph Elliot (who thinks that he needs to get control of his sister), a third cousin once removed of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who helped to teach him how to fight), and a distant relation of Blind Hamish Elliot (who thinks that he still needs to prove himself, but shows great promise). He is the third cousin once removed by marriage of Isobel Elliot, a second cousin of Clever Duff Elliot and Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, a third cousin once removed of Robert Elliot and Cracked Maisie Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Job Elliot, a great-nephew of Iron Kenneth Elliot, a distant relation of Walker Thom Elliot, the elder brother of Willful Moira Elliot, the great-nephew by marriage of Elspeth Elliot, a distant relation of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Elspeth Elliot is the cousin by marriage of Roger Elliot (who really doesn't much like her), the cousin by marriage of Mither Lileas Elliot (who is her best friend in the world), and the cousin once removed by marriage of Red Duncan Elliot (who finds her shrill and boring). She is a distant relation of Joseph Elliot (who deeply mistrusts her), a cousin once removed by marriage of Four-fingers Tam Elliot (who did not know her very well before his death), and a niece by marriage of Blind Hamish Elliot (who thinks, for some reason, that she is an absolute sweetheart). She is the cousin once removed by marriage of Isobel Elliot, the grandmother of Clever Duff Elliot and Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, the cousin once removed by marriage of Robert Elliot and Cracked Maisie Elliot, the cousin once removed by marriage of Job Elliot, the sister-in-law of Iron Kenneth Elliot, a distant relation of Walker Thom Elliot, the great-aunt of Tall Rory Elliot and Willful Moira Elliot, a distant relation of Wolfen Willie Elliot, the third cousin twice removed by marriage of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin twice removed by marriage of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Willie the Wolf Elliot is the third cousin once removed of Roger Elliot (who disapproves of him), the third cousin once removed of Mither Lilieas (who despises him, but thinks that he is about to get what is coming to him), and the third cousin of Red Duncan Elliot (who thinks that he has his uses, but needs to be brought under control). He is the older brother of Joseph Elliot (who loathes him with every fiber of his being), the third cousin of Four Fingers Tam Elliot (who was always disappointed in him), and a distant relation of Blind Hamish Elliot (who seriously thinks that he should be disnamed). He is the third cousin by marriage of Isobel Elliot, a distant relation of Clever Duff Elliot and Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, the cousin of Robert Elliot and Cracked Maisie Elliot, the third cousin of Job Elliot, a distant relation of Iron Kenneth Elliot, the uncle of Walker Thom Elliot, a distant relation of Tall Rory Elliot and Willful Moira Elliot, a distant relation of Elspeth Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Saintly Thomas Elliot.

Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot is the third cousin twice removed of Roger Elliot (who thinks he's obnoxious but basically good at heart), the third cousin twice removed of Mither Lilieas (who finds him interesting if occasionally annoying), and the third cousin once removed of Red Duncan Elliot (who holds him in contempt, but values his wilderness skills). He is the second cousin once removed of Joseph Elliot (who is utterly indifferent toward him), the third cousin once removed of Four Fingers Tam Elliot (who was always disappointed in him), and a distant relation of Blind Hamish Elliot (who holds him in contempt). He is the third cousin once removed by marriage of Isobel Elliot, a third cousin of Clever Duff Elliot and Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Robert Elliot and Cracked Maisie Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Job Elliot, the third cousin twice removed of Iron Kenneth Elliot, the third cousin of Walker Thom Elliot, a third cousin of Tall Rory Elliot and Willful Moira Elliot, a third cousin twice removed by marriage of Elspeth Elliot, a third cousin once removed of Willie the Wolf Elliot, the first cousin of Saintly Thomas Elliot

Saintly Thomas Elliot is the third cousin twice removed of Roger Elliot (who finds him tiresome), the third cousin twice removed of Mither Lilieas (who also finds him tiresome, but pities him as well), and the third cousin once removed of Red Duncan Elliot (who yearns to bloody his nose). He is the second cousin once removed of Joseph Elliot (who is outraged by his Catholicism), the third cousin once removed of Four Fingers Tam Elliot (who treated him with amused tolerance), and a distant relation of Blind Hamish Elliot (who secretly approves of the lad's defiant Catholic faith). He is the third cousin once removed by marriage of Isobel Elliot, a third cousin of Clever Duff Elliot and Bonnie Hands Fiona Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Robert Elliot and Cracked Maisie Elliot, the third cousin once removed of Job Elliot, the third cousin twice removed of Iron Kenneth Elliot, the third cousin of Walker Thom Elliot, a third cousin of Tall Rory Elliot and Willful Moira Elliot, a third cousin twice removed by marriage of Elspeth Elliot, a third cousin once removed of Willie the Wolf Elliot, the first cousin of Fleetfoot Marcas Elliot
Last edited by Reverend Norv on Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:45 pm, edited 7 times in total.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

User avatar
Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 2531
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:10 am

HISTORICAL FAQs


Nude East Ireland wrote:I'm actually working on a app. The first - and most difficult - bit is finding a suitable name.

Any of the more English-sounding names on this list are good bets. The Borderers spoke Scots, not Gaelic, so any names with funny accents over the vowels are inappropriate. Due the vast number of people named, for example, "John Elliot," nicknames and sobriquets were also common - like "Little Jock Elliot". Standard sobriquets might be a color ("Red Duncan," for example, referring to his choleric temperment) or an obvious physical trait ("Blind Hamish") or a social role ("Mither [mother] Lilieas"). As for surnames, well - it's Elliot, so that's right easy.




Zeinbrad wrote:Also, know any suitable sources for helping me come up with an app? I have no idea about what it is like in this time period.

Most of the research you should need is in the OP, and feel free to ask any remaining questions here; I'll just add them, answered, to the FAQs - and you will thereby edify everyone else in addition to yourself. If the OP is truly insufficient, then here are some useful Wikipedia links: Border Reivers, the Debatable Lands, the Scottish Reformation (a good guide to the general political state of the British Isles at the time), and the Rough Wooing. Really, though, everything you need to gain a basic understanding of the period is in the OP.

Courtesy of the Grey Wolf: This is a realist approach to the borders, and this is one seriously pissed off bishop.




Nationstatelandsville wrote:Once this closes, one of us should make a family tree.

I should clarify one point of geneology.

Roger Elliot, the Elliot of Harelaw, had two younger siblings.

One was Mither Lileas; she had four sons. These sons included Four-Fingers Tam, and they were the four Elliots hanged by Walter Scott.

Roger's other younger sibling was Waterbull Johnnie Elliot, so called for his deformed ears. He was the father of Red Duncan and Job, and he was a good father indeed; he died of an infected wound six years ago.

Roger himself had three children, but all three died in infancy, and his wife then miscarried and died herself. It is rumored that he was cursed.

So that gives some structure to the core of the clan, at least.




Aurinsula wrote:[11:31] <Aurinsula> Do the reivers have just one bastle house, or do they have several in a neighborhood?
[11:31] <Aurinsula> Or rather, do they have discrete 'households' within the clan?


Yes, definitely. A given family unit - parents, children, sometimes grandparents as well - will have its own bastle house, surrounded by enough land to graze their cattle. These homesteads are scattered across the northern Debatable Lands, though no dwelling is more than fifteen minutes' hard ride from the nearest neighboring Elliot bastle house; this allows clan members to reinforce each other in case of a hostile foray.

The heidsman and his immediate family live at a multi-story stone tower house at Harelaw, which is halfway to being a castle, and which serves as the last defensive refuge of the whole clan. More Elliots live here than anywhere else, though one would still never call Harelaw a town - or even a village.

There is one settlement of note in the Debatable Lands: the village of Canonbie, which is an Armstrong settlement. Otherwise, the population is dispersed in single-household bastle houses scattered across the moors.




Evraim wrote:May I ask if women routinely spoke at family gatherings?


This is a good place to discuss the role of women.

The Border attitude to women can best be described as "separate but equal." Women occupy a separate sphere: they are not trained in warfare, they are not expected to go on forays, and so on. Similarly, men are not expected to know how to weave, or make cheese, and so forth. But Border customary law allows women to own property in their own name (though usually only as widows), and women are expected to speak at clan gatherings. It is understood that women understand things that men may not, and so their input - especially the counsel of older, wiser women - is considered decidedly valuable.

Border women, in short, are formidable and everyone knows it. A sexist society suffices to keep women out of the front lines, and to ensure that the final say in most decisions lies (at least theoretically) with a man. It does not suffice to silence them, or to make them anything but they very relevant players in family decision-making that they are.

More to follow here when my head ceases to be full of cotton wool.
Last edited by Reverend Norv on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:35 pm, edited 7 times in total.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
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Nationstatelandsville
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nationstatelandsville » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:35 am

This is Nat-approved, but suddenly, cannot be Nat-joined.

Join for me. It is your duty.
"Then I was fertilized and grew wise;
From a word to a word I was led to a word,
From a work to a work I was led to a work."
- Odin, Hávamál 138-141, the Poetic Edda, as translated by Dan McCoy.

I enjoy meta-humor and self-deprecation. Annoying, right?

Goodbye.

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Zeinbrad
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Ex-Nation

Postby Zeinbrad » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:41 am

Border Rievers? You have made Grey Wolf a very happy man.

I'll try to read in more detail after my tutor.
Last edited by Zeinbrad on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cylarn
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Postby Cylarn » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:58 am

I like it. Allow me to do some research first, because I often feel mediocre when RP'ing with you, Norv, because you're so damn good.
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Reverend Norv
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Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:59 am

Take your time, Cy. Most of the research you should need is in the OP, and feel free to ask any remaining questions here; I'll just add them, answered, to the FAQs - and you will thereby edify everyone else in addition to yourself.
Last edited by Reverend Norv on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Agritum
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Founded: May 09, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Agritum » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:02 am

Nationstatelandsville wrote:This is Nat-approved, but suddenly, cannot be Nat-joined.

Join for me. It is your duty.

Exactly this. Just substitute Nat with Agri.

I'm also in the heartland of the lands of the Angles and Saxons, which I believe do not have much sympathy for Scottish raiders.
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Vulkanas
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vulkanas » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:03 am

Would it be feasible to have a character that believes in the Norse faith in this time period? For example, maybe he has travelled from the very north of Scandinavia.
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Reverend Norv
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Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:04 am

Vulkanas wrote:Would it be feasible to have a character that believes in the Norse faith in this time period? For example, maybe he has travelled from the very north of Scandinavia.


No, afraid not. All PCs are members of the Elliot family, as it clearly says in the rules. The Elliots do not come from the far north of Scandinavia, so the question of whether paganism survived there is academic.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Vulkanas
Diplomat
 
Posts: 775
Founded: Nov 08, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vulkanas » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:05 am

Reverend Norv wrote:
Vulkanas wrote:Would it be feasible to have a character that believes in the Norse faith in this time period? For example, maybe he has travelled from the very north of Scandinavia.


No, afraid not. All PCs are members of the Elliot family, as it clearly says in the rules. The Elliots do not come from the far north of Scandinavia, so the question of whether paganism survived there is academic.

Ok then. Not much of a problem, I was just hopeful. I shall get working on my app.
Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.28

Progressivism 92.5
Socialism 62.5
Tenderness 43.75
Take the test.
Alleniana wrote:ah oui oui
francais eiffel tower oui non oui baguette surrender

The Ik Ka Ek Akai wrote:Insulation, I'm not so good at this. Sometimes I use big words to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Nationstatelandsville
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Postby Nationstatelandsville » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:06 am

Agritum wrote:
Nationstatelandsville wrote:This is Nat-approved, but suddenly, cannot be Nat-joined.

Join for me. It is your duty.

Exactly this. Just substitute Nat with Agri.

I'm also in the heartland of the lands of the Angles and Saxons, which I believe do not have much sympathy for Scottish raiders.

This is only because they're weak.
"Then I was fertilized and grew wise;
From a word to a word I was led to a word,
From a work to a work I was led to a work."
- Odin, Hávamál 138-141, the Poetic Edda, as translated by Dan McCoy.

I enjoy meta-humor and self-deprecation. Annoying, right?

Goodbye.

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Nude East Ireland
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Founded: Dec 31, 2011
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Postby Nude East Ireland » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:07 am

This is incredibly interesting.
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Reverend Norv
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Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:07 am

Vulkanas wrote:
Reverend Norv wrote:
No, afraid not. All PCs are members of the Elliot family, as it clearly says in the rules. The Elliots do not come from the far north of Scandinavia, so the question of whether paganism survived there is academic.

Ok then. Not much of a problem, I was just hopeful. I shall get working on my app.


Glad to hear it. Don't forget to give the OP a careful read first; if you are not familiar with the period before you write your app, then you are just going to have to rewrite it again later. You'll save yourself time by reading the background information carefully now.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 2531
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:08 am

Nude East Ireland wrote:This is incredibly interesting.


I happen to think so also. I hope you'll be able to join; I sure could use you.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

User avatar
Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 2531
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:10 am

Agritum wrote:
Nationstatelandsville wrote:This is Nat-approved, but suddenly, cannot be Nat-joined.

Join for me. It is your duty.

Exactly this. Just substitute Nat with Agri.

I'm also in the heartland of the lands of the Angles and Saxons, which I believe do not have much sympathy for Scottish raiders.


Sorry to hear you two can't join us. I wish it were otherwise. Maybe in a few months, eh?

Incidentally, half of the Reivers were English; the Elliots just happen to be on the Scottish side of the (largely imaginary) border. Reivers had much more in common with each other, no matter what side of the border they happened to live on, than they did with the "milk-drinkers" in either Edinburgh or London. The Border was a world unto itself.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Nude East Ireland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17308
Founded: Dec 31, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Nude East Ireland » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:11 am

Reverend Norv wrote:
Nude East Ireland wrote:This is incredibly interesting.


I happen to think so also. I hope you'll be able to join; I sure could use you.

I'm actually working on a app. The first - and most difficult - bit is finding a suitable name.
Part One of the Incredible, Invincible Team Dai-Zarkeland!

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Aurinsula
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1865
Founded: Jun 02, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Aurinsula » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:13 am

10,000% in for this; I won't even be able to sleep before I've put together a preliminary character.

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Astrolinium
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Ex-Nation

Postby Astrolinium » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:13 am

You shall have my sword pen keyboard in this venture; I shall make an app this eve upon my return home from shopping and shenanigans with my comrades.
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Reverend Norv
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Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:17 am

Nude East Ireland wrote:
Reverend Norv wrote:
I happen to think so also. I hope you'll be able to join; I sure could use you.

I'm actually working on a app. The first - and most difficult - bit is finding a suitable name.


Answered in the FAQ!
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 2531
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:19 am

Aurinsula wrote:10,000% in for this; I won't even be able to sleep before I've put together a preliminary character.
Astrolinium wrote:You shall have my sword pen keyboard in this venture; I shall make an app this eve upon my return home from shopping and shenanigans with my comrades.


Fantastic! I am thrilled to have you both. Bring your friends!
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

User avatar
Nationstatelandsville
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 70969
Founded: Apr 27, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Nationstatelandsville » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:19 am

Nude East Ireland wrote:
Reverend Norv wrote:
I happen to think so also. I hope you'll be able to join; I sure could use you.

I'm actually working on a app. The first - and most difficult - bit is finding a suitable name.

"Leon".
"Then I was fertilized and grew wise;
From a word to a word I was led to a word,
From a work to a work I was led to a work."
- Odin, Hávamál 138-141, the Poetic Edda, as translated by Dan McCoy.

I enjoy meta-humor and self-deprecation. Annoying, right?

Goodbye.

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