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1618: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-OPEN]

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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25609
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Tracian Empire » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:48 pm

Map and list updated
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Khasinkonia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6214
Founded: Feb 02, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Khasinkonia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:51 pm

Tracian Empire wrote:Map and list updated

Oh, by the way, whenever you have a chance, I provided a Gaulish name for the Kingdom of Gaul.

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Arvenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12611
Founded: Aug 21, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:56 pm

Is it possible for a northern Chinese dynasty to control parts of Asian Russia?
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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25609
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Tracian Empire » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:02 pm

Khasinkonia wrote:
Tracian Empire wrote:Map and list updated

Oh, by the way, whenever you have a chance, I provided a Gaulish name for the Kingdom of Gaul.

I will edit it tomorrow
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25609
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Tracian Empire » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:02 pm

Arvenia wrote:Is it possible for a northern Chinese dynasty to control parts of Asian Russia?

It depends on what territory you specifically want, but yes
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Arvenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12611
Founded: Aug 21, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:24 pm

Reservation

Nation Name: Fei Dynasty
Territory: Rest of China, Mongolia, Altai Republic, Tuva Republic, Irkutsk Oblast, Amur Oblast, Zabaykalsky Oblast, Buryatia and Yakutia
#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.
Pro: Political Pluralism, Centrism, Liberalism, Liberal Democracy, Social Democracy, Sweden, USA, UN, ROC, Japan, South Korea, Monarchism, Republicanism, Sci-Fi, Animal Rights, Gender Equality, Mecha, Autism, Environmentalism, Secularism, Religion and LGBT Rights
Anti: Racism, Sexism, Nazism, Fascism, EU, Socialism, Adolf Hitler, Neo-Nazism, KKK, Joseph Stalin, PRC, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Communism, Ultraconservatism, Ultranationalism, Xenophobia, Homophobia, Transphobia, WBC, Satanism, Mormonism, Anarchy, ISIS, al-Qaeda, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, 969 Movement, Political Correctness, Anti-Autistic Sentiment, Far-Right, Far-Left, Cultural Relativism, Anti-Vaxxers, Scalpers and COVID-19

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Union Princes
Minister
 
Posts: 3316
Founded: Nov 02, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Union Princes » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:50 pm

Might do a united kingdom under Oliver Cromwell. A monarchy with no King
There is no such thing as peace, only truce between wars

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Arvenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12611
Founded: Aug 21, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:06 pm

Union Princes wrote:Might do a united kingdom under Oliver Cromwell. A monarchy with no King

That's basically a republic.
Pro: Political Pluralism, Centrism, Liberalism, Liberal Democracy, Social Democracy, Sweden, USA, UN, ROC, Japan, South Korea, Monarchism, Republicanism, Sci-Fi, Animal Rights, Gender Equality, Mecha, Autism, Environmentalism, Secularism, Religion and LGBT Rights
Anti: Racism, Sexism, Nazism, Fascism, EU, Socialism, Adolf Hitler, Neo-Nazism, KKK, Joseph Stalin, PRC, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Communism, Ultraconservatism, Ultranationalism, Xenophobia, Homophobia, Transphobia, WBC, Satanism, Mormonism, Anarchy, ISIS, al-Qaeda, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, 969 Movement, Political Correctness, Anti-Autistic Sentiment, Far-Right, Far-Left, Cultural Relativism, Anti-Vaxxers, Scalpers and COVID-19

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Sao Nova Europa
Minister
 
Posts: 2420
Founded: Apr 20, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sao Nova Europa » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:07 pm

Arvenia wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Fei Dynasty
Territory: Rest of China, Mongolia, Altai Republic, Tuva Republic, Irkutsk Oblast, Amur Oblast, Zabaykalsky Oblast, Buryatia and Yakutia
#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.


Will your dynasty be Han Chinese or Mongolian/Tatar/Jurchen/whatever?
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"I’ve just bitten a snake. Never mind me, I’ve got business to look after."
- Guo Jing ‘The Brave Archer’.

“In war, to keep the upper hand, you have to think two or three moves ahead of the enemy.”
- Char Aznable

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
- Sun Tzu

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Intermountain States
Minister
 
Posts: 2045
Founded: Oct 12, 2014
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Intermountain States » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:08 pm

Union Princes wrote:Might do a united kingdom under Oliver Cromwell. A monarchy with no King

Might be too late since we already have a reservation on the British isles.
I find my grammatical mistakes after I finish posting
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
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If you try to blame me, I will laugh in your face. I'm glad she lost. I got half my wish. :)
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Arvenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12611
Founded: Aug 21, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:53 pm

Sao Nova Europa wrote:
Arvenia wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Fei Dynasty
Territory: Rest of China, Mongolia, Altai Republic, Tuva Republic, Irkutsk Oblast, Amur Oblast, Zabaykalsky Oblast, Buryatia and Yakutia
#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.


Will your dynasty be Han Chinese or Mongolian/Tatar/Jurchen/whatever?

Maybe Muslim.
Pro: Political Pluralism, Centrism, Liberalism, Liberal Democracy, Social Democracy, Sweden, USA, UN, ROC, Japan, South Korea, Monarchism, Republicanism, Sci-Fi, Animal Rights, Gender Equality, Mecha, Autism, Environmentalism, Secularism, Religion and LGBT Rights
Anti: Racism, Sexism, Nazism, Fascism, EU, Socialism, Adolf Hitler, Neo-Nazism, KKK, Joseph Stalin, PRC, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Communism, Ultraconservatism, Ultranationalism, Xenophobia, Homophobia, Transphobia, WBC, Satanism, Mormonism, Anarchy, ISIS, al-Qaeda, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, 969 Movement, Political Correctness, Anti-Autistic Sentiment, Far-Right, Far-Left, Cultural Relativism, Anti-Vaxxers, Scalpers and COVID-19

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Reverend Norv
Minister
 
Posts: 3209
Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:05 pm

I am contemplating an application for the Low Countries, on the theory that they make for a plausible cradle of the Reformation in this timeline: Europe's most urbanized, wealthy, bourgeois society would be most inclined to break with the imperial Chalcedonian churches. First, though, I'd like to check whether there is any existing canon about where the Reformation emerged and when, and I'd like to inquire as to any established history of the Holy Roman Empire and the rest of Germany.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647

A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Chinniwana
Envoy
 
Posts: 235
Founded: Feb 28, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Chinniwana » Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:29 pm

[[Please remove all double brackets from the app before posting it, including this one]]
Full Nation Name: Altın Orda ve Qırım yurtu (The Golden Horde and the Crimean Yurt)
Majority/Official Culture: Crimean/Tatar, a Turkic-Mongol People
Territorial Core: [[The territory that your nation actually controls]]
Territorial Claim: [[OPTIONAL]] [[The territories that your nation desires]]
Capital City: [[Its IRL location and name]]
Population:

Government Type: Elective Constitutional Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies: [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]]
Government Focus: [[Tell us a little bit about what your government’s focus is… be it military, economy, culture, legitimacy, etc.]]
Head of State: [[The highest-ranking individual in the nation ]]
Head of Government: [[If different, the highest-ranking individual who actually runs the nation]]
Government Description:

Majority/State Religion: The Official State Religion is Catholicism.
Religious Description: While the nation and its peoples have fully embraced Catholicism, the Catholicism of the Tatars has retained some Tengriist and Nestorian traditions. For instance, God and Jesus are referred to as Mangutengri and Misicatengrin. The Nestorian Cross is also used more commonly through out the Kingdom instead of the Latin Cross. There are also small groups of Tengrists and Muslims on the edges of the Kingdom, though they are condemned and if found are punished with torture and death. Protestantism, especially Hussitism and Lutheranism, are also outlawed.

Economic Description: [[A short description of your economy, does not need to be detailed considering the era]]
Major Production:


Army Description : [[Describe your nation's army in as much detail as you can]]
Army Weakness :
Naval Description : [[Describe your nation's navy in as much detail as you can]]
Naval Weakness :
Further Military Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

National Goals : [[What are the main objectives of your nation?]]
National Issues : [[What needs to be fixed in order for your nation to achieve its true potential?]]
National Figures of Interest : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Are there any Mother Teresas or Moses that we need to know about?]]
National Ambition/Aspirations : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Not really set objectives, but rather the big picture that your nation is drawing towards]]

History : [[Can be formatted in paragraphs or as a bulletpoint timeline.]]
RP Sample: [[Either a link to a past post, or an example written right here.]]

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

(WIP)
Last edited by Chinniwana on Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dogutrakya
Attaché
 
Posts: 71
Founded: Mar 30, 2022
Corporate Bordello

Postby Dogutrakya » Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:45 pm

Image
Flag of the Tughlaq Dynasty

Image
The Tawhid Banner, military flag

Image
Black Standard of Prophet Muhammad, caliphate flag

EMPIRE AND CALIPHATE OF INDIA
ہندوستان - हिंदुस्तान - Hindustan

"La illah ila Allah, Muhammadan rasulullah, Allahu Akbar"



Full Nation Name: Empire (and Caliphate) of India, commonly: Hindustan
Majority/Official Culture: Hindustani is the primary and ruling culture, supplemented by Persian. Minority cultures present are Bengali, Pashtun, Baloch, Odia, Gujarati, Rajasthani (Malvi, Marwari, etc.), Marathi, Punjabi, Kashmiri, Nepali, Mizo, Assamesse, Tibetan, etc.
Territorial Core: Hindustan at its height
Territorial Claim: Southern India and its possessions
Capital City: Delhi
Population: India is one of the most populous nations in the world, with a population of more than 70 million.

Government Type: Sultanate; Theocratic Absolute Monarchy under Sharia law
Government Ideology: Islamic law forms the basis of administration, with all laws derived from the Sharia as written in the noble Quran and Prophet Muhammad's hadiths. For the dhimmi (non-Muslim) populations of Hindustan, separate courts and laws exist largely derived from the legal systems of conquered states.
Government Focus: Expansionist; Hindustan seeks to eradicate what it calls a kafir menace in Southern India, and reunite India under Muslim control.
Head of State: Nasir-ud-Din Muhammad Shah Tughluq VII, Sultan-e-Azam, Amīr al-Muʾminīn
Image

Head of Government: Abu'l-Fazl ibn Mubarak, Wazir-e-Azam
Image

Government Description: Hindustan is an absolute monarchy governed by Sharia law of sacred Islamic texts. The law is derived from the holy Qur'an, as well as sahih (verified) Hadith, which are deeds and words of the Prophet Muhammad. The two Hadith that form the basis of Mughal law are Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, both from the ninth century, as those are the two books generally considered the most authentic after holy Qur'an itself. Successive Delhi sultans of old have made efforts to translate and distribute the Qur'an and Hadith into various languages, including Hindustani, Bengali, Odia, and various Rajasthani languages to aid conversion. It should be regarded that none of these copies are authentic, though; only the pure, Arabic Qur'an holds the ultimate truth.

The Sultan serves as head of state, and the prime religious authority as Amīr al-Muʾminīn (commander of the faithful). As Caliph, he is the vicegerent of God on Earth. Hindustani monarchs claim descent from Prophet Muhammad's daughter Fatima (the Ahlul Bayt), and sayyids (desecendants of Muhammad) in Hindustan are forbidden to marry into anyone who is not part of the extended Imperial dynasty. This is done to keep the Caliphate claim firmly in the Tughlaq Dynasty's hand. Below him directly is the Grand Vizier (Wazir-e-Azam), responsible for most matters of government. The Vizier forms a cabinet to address various matters of government; ministers are appointed by the Sultan on his suggestion. Normally, several dhimmi (non-Muslims) are present in the cabinet, their purpose is to organize jizya tax levied on non-Muslims and to patron the cultural as well as religious activities of non-Muslims in the Empire.

Hindustan is further subdivided into several Subah (province), governed by a Zamindar (from subahdar, "viceroy of Subahs"). These are appointed by the Sultan, although there exists hereditary Zamindars, rulers of previous kingdoms that were conquered by the Delhi Sultanate. Hereditary Zamindars are granted the title Nawab, and they are exclusively Muslim. Hindu Zamindars may take the title Raja, and this is particularly popular in Rajasthan and northern Deccan among the Rajput community. Muslim Subahs follow Imperial law, as being Muslims, they are governed by the Caliph in accordance with Sharia law. Hindu, or significant Hindu-populated Subahs, have separate courts, with the Hindu courts applying their own legal system, largely derived from former states. Hindus and other religious minorites are technically exempt from draft, and they had to pay jizya tax to compensate, but nonetheless past monarchs have called upon their Hindu subjects to fight, ostensibly as "mercenaries".

Majority/State Religion: Sunni Islam
Religious Description: Sunni Islam is the official and majority religion of Hindustan, professed by about 45% of the population. Muslims in Hindustan form a diverse demographic, from Baluch in the western extremity, to the Bengals in the east, Kashmiris in the north, and Deccan Muslims bordering South India. because of this, it is often said the Empire is united because of Islam; this fact is often celebrated by Muslims across Hindustan. Massive conversion and proselytizing efforts done since the Delhi Sultanate era has converted immense amount of people to Islam. Typically, after a state is conquered, its leaders are given the offer to convert and become part of the Imperial bureaucracy, and as such they are also able to marry into the Imperial dynasty. This is then extended to the local chieftains and governors who will take Islam first, and their retinues following suit. This up-to-down conversion mechanism has been very effective in converting many ethnic groups that are traditionally Hindu to Islam; the Odias, Nepalis, Kashmiris, and Rajasthani-speaking groups in the Deccan has seen over half of their population becoming Muslim.

The government, however, through Hindu Zamindars and ministers on the Imperial Cabinet, continue to fund Hindu temples and restore broken ones. The Sultan sponsored both Muslim and Hindu scholars, and even those from Buddhism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, and Judaism. The first university in India was established in Delhi by past Delhi Sultans, and is an important center of philosophy and religious studies. Notably, many mosques are designed in the form of Hindu temples, instead of the Persian dome structure common in earlier Indian Muslim states, as a form of synceretism. Hindustan also sheltered Jews, Buddhists, and Zoroastrians that are normally persecuted in neigboring states. Following the rise of a Christian kingdom in the south, however, Christians have been increasingly persecuted and their rights curtailed. Many are forced to convert to Islam and denounce their old faith. While they are one of the ahl ul-Kitab (People of the Book), Christian communities have seen their political and economic privileges reduced so much that they are more limited than lower-caste Hindus in the country. European contact with Hindustan, however, has played a major part in alleviating these problems, as European churches, particularly those of Protestant confession, are commonly seen as more reliable than the native Christian sects.

Economic Description: Hindustan is a major economic center of the region, producing a significant portion of the world's gross domestic product. Hindustan is fairly self-sufficient; crops are abundant and ubitquous, from wheat to rice to barley; maize and potatoes, introduced by Europeans, are gaining popularity even though cultivation of them are uncommon. Hindustan straddles the Indo-Gangetic Plain, one of the most fertile and populous regions of Earth, and naturally hosts a massive population as well as economic output matching it. The most important of Hindustan's provinces, however, is Bengal - which is also called the Paradise of Nations. It has the largest subnational economy in the world, producing all kinds of grains, textiles, agricultural produces, and handicrafts. Major cities are Dhaka and Calcutta in Bengal; Delhi, the national capital, Lahore and Chandigarh in Punjab, Lucknow and Agra around the Ganges Plain, Ahmedabad and the newly-founded city of Mumbai in Gujarat, and Jaipur in Rajasthan.

Nominally, the economy is centrally-regulated, and all taxes are paid to the Sultan. In practice, however, each subah set their own economic policy, from encouraging industrialisation and free trade in Bengal and Punjab, to very feudal in Rajasthan. Banks and proto-stock exchanges exist in Hindustan, issuing credits in form of dastawez (loan deeds) and hundi, a form of IOU. Although riba is forbidden in Islam, and has been interpreted commonly as interest, it is not illegal in Hindustan; specifically only compound and extreme interest is declared forbidden. While Hindustan mints silver and copper coins as currency (Rupiya and dam, respectively), fiat or paper money also exists (in the form of the hundi, or IOUs). It is generally not considered forbidden to charge interest on these, as they are not inherently valuable. This practice is somewhat regulated. There are subahs, such as Bengal, which required administration and license to make banking operations legal. In poorer parts of Hindustan, such practice is rather less regulated and as a result corruption became more common.

Major Production: Grains (wheat, rice, and barley), fine cotton muslin and silk, textile (yarns, thread, silk, jute, calico, cloth/piece goods), liquors and wines, salt, ornaments, fruits, metals (ingot and processed), indigo, opium, pepper, ginger, saffron, maize, tobacco, potato, sugar, oils, butter, tar, resin, nitre, ships and woodwork.

Army Description : The Hindustani army is a sizeable force, comprised of a professional army, auxilliaries, and mercenaries. The professional standing army, numbering 50,000 strong, is the Sultan's personal force. In addition to this, he can also call over an additional 200,000 levies, although these levies possess lesser training than the professional force. Auxilliaries (mostly Rajputs, feudal levies, and tribes) can provide another 150,000 personnel for the Hindustani army, although calling upon all of the Sultan's subjects is a truly extraordinary occassion; and one that has never happened. Numerous cavalry and war elephants are also integrated into the military.

Hindustani strategy incorporates firearms, considered the most important cornerstone of the military. Hindustani soldiers are armed with swords (primarily scimitars) and matchlock muskets. The bandukchi (musketeers) serves as line infantry, they are primarily the members of the Sultan's professional army. They are well-paid, receiving sacks of grain and a piece of silver as stipend, they are well-trained in swordfighting and firearm use, and they control a series of fortifications spanning across Hindustan that serves as base. Imperial levies are in contrast lesser-equipped and lesser-trained, although most of them generally carries a musket as well. Artillery serves an important part in Hindustani warfare. Medium and heavy cannons break enemy fortifications, and they scare war elephants - creating massive panic, chaos, and confusion across enemy lines. Swivel guns and zamburak (a type of small, protable self-propelled artillery) are heavily employed in warfare, which are used by cavalry and artillery corps in tandem with musketeers to poke holes and create chaos in enemy ranks. Zamburaks are particularly effective on the rugged Deccan terrain, due to the difficulty of transporting heavy cannons. Hindustan possessed a fairly advanced metal industry, and is able to produce many of its cannons domestically and at lower cost.

Feudal and tribal levies are even less equipped and trained than Imperial levies, but nonetheless their sheer numbers provide an advantage for the Hindustani military. In fact, numerous tribal and local groups have acquired reputation as fierce and excellent fighters; chief among them are the Rajputs, a Hindu class of warriors originating in Rajasthan. Rajputs have traditionally been allied with the Delhi Sultanate, and subsequent Hindustani rulers have continued this association and patronage towards them. They are exempt from jizyaw (non-muslim tax), and they have provided soldiers in every Hindustani campaign so far.
Army Weakness: Due to the sheer size of the army, logistics and organization are rather difficult when additional levies are called. This provides a major problem that must be addressed if Hindustan is ever to mount a campaign towards the South.

Naval Description: Hindustan's navy was historically neglected and played second fiddle to the enormous army, but this has began to change. Previous administrations has bulit Hindustan a fairly large amount of warships, capitalizing on the country's ever-growing shipbuilding industry. It is predominantly a defensive force, though efforts are currently underway to transform it into an offensive power. The navy is commanded by two Amir al-Bahr (lit. "Lord of the Sea") responsible for each of India's two coasts; they are in turn subordinate to the Maritime Chamber, that regulates resources allocated to the navy and anti-piracy measures. Hindustan primarily employs Gulf Arabs to serve in the higher-ranking posts of the navy. This is to provide training and experience stemming from centuries of Arabian naval tradition towards native Indian sailors. Sailors are primarily recruited from coastal trading regions; Gujarat and Bengal most among them.

The cheaper cost of metal production in Hindustan has allowed the navy to keep cannons on many of its ships. Mostly these are swivel guns designed to prevent and eliminate boarding enemy soldiers. Both grapeshots and roundshots are fired from these cannons. Larger guns are also present on some of the bigger ships; these vessels form the backbone of each fleet because of their ship-sinking ability.
Naval Weakness : The Hindustani navy is not as large as many of its neighbors; the primary issue, however, is the lack of training and naval tradition of Indian sailors. The navy has never gone through a period total war before, their experience primarily fighting against pirates and privateers. Therefore, Hindustan also relies upon hired privateers, which are notoriously unreliable. It is also expected that the Arab admirals can transfer their knowledge of naval warfare and strategy towards the sailors, though this process would certainly take a long time.
Further Military Description : N/A

National Goals: Weaken South India and eventually conquer the Deccan Muslim states, increase production output of trade goods, gain more European technology, and replacing South India as the foremost naval power of the Indian Ocean.
National Issues: Hindustan needs to address discontent in some of its Hindu constituents and satisfy them. The growth of Hindustani naval power is also essential to the economic growth, and if Hindustan were to improve its economic influence in this part of the world, it needs to gain sufficient naval influence to seize a larger portion of international trade.
National Figures of Interest : -
National Ambition/Aspirations: Reuniting India under Muslim rule.

History:
  • 1206: Qutbuldin Aibak, a mamluk (military slave) of Muhammad Ghori, ruler of the Ghurid Dynasty, seized power in Delhi after he was assassinated. Thus began the Delhi Sultanate.
  • 1210: After Qutbuldin Aibak's death, his successor Aram Khan attempted to take the throne, but was deposed and killed by Aibak's son-in-law Shamsuddin Iltumish. Iltumish's reign marked the start of a massive campaign that extended Delhi rule over the Ganges and Indus. Iltumish's armies captured Multan and Bengal, and foothills of the Himalayas from its remaining Hindu rulers, as well as Ranthambore from the Rajputs.
  • 1290: Successive rulers of the Mamluk dynasty saw Delhi territory diminishing; most notably the Rajputs reestablished their indendence. Shamsuddin Kayumars's sudden death led to speculation that a powerful noble, the Pashtun Jalaluddin Khalji, might be behind it. Nonetheless, Khalji ascended to the throne and started another war to recapture Ranthambore, which he succeeded at.
  • 1316: When the last Khalji ruler, Alauddin Khalji died, a slave converted to Islam named Khusro Khan launched a coup against the Sultan's children, killing his heir and massacring the entire Khalji dynasty. Khusro Khan reverted back to Hinduism, and many countries under Delhi rule declared war on him as a result. Khusro Khan was oppressive, even to his Hindu subjects, which caused the Rajputs to rise in rebellion against him. Eventually, Delhi's aristocracy invited Punjab governor Ghazi Malik to march on the capital and launch a coup against Khusro Khan.
  • 1321: Ghazi Malik renamed himself Gjhaziuddin Tughlaq, thus starting the Tughlaq dynasty that would rule Delhti and Hindustan afterwards. He was crowned as Sultan of Delhi.
  • 1324-1325: Ghaziuddin Tughlaq attacked Bengal, then uder the rule of Shamsuddin Firoz Khan of the Bengal Sultanate. Bengal is incorporated as a part of the Delhi Sultanate, now once again straddling from the Indus to the Ganges.
  • 1330: Muhammad bin Tughlaq ascended the throne. This Sultan was a ruler fixated on conquest and military gain - he attacked Malwa, Gujarat, and all the way to Chittagong. Muhammad bin Tughlaq conquered the Malabar Coast, and he attempted to solidify his control over the Sultanate by executing numerous Islamic scholars, ulemas, governors, nobles, and evem sayyids (descendants of the prophet Muhammad). The economy fell to its worst state during his reign; the Ganges plain is rife with lawlessness, and many lords became robber barons because they had to pay exorbitant taxes. Finally, he moved the entire Delhi aristocracy tot he Deccans, and settled a massive amlunt of Muslims there, that it would form a new stronghold of Islam in India a century later.
  • 1340: Muammad bin Tughlaq's nephew Firoz Shah rose in revolt against him. Firoz Shah was rather tolerant, and he also gained support of the Indian ulema, popularizing him in the Delhi aristocracy. Most notably, Firoz Shah agreed to abolish the jizya tax for every Hindu prince that assisted him against Muhammad bin Tughlaq. The Rajputs became his primary Hindu supporters, and as a result, most of them are exempt from jizya to this day. Firoz Shah defeated Muhammad bin Tughlaq in his capital of Daulatabad, and was proclaimed the next Delhi Sultan right after Miuhammad bin Tughlaq's death. Most of his reign is spent on campaigns restoring Delhi rule upon territories that revolted during Muhammad bin Tughlaq's reign.
  • 1359: Delhi's armies conquered Bengal for the third time. This time, Firoz Shah Tughlaq proclaimed Dhaka as a "junior capital" of the Sultanate, and sent his heir to administer the region from the city. He also organized a mass wedding between Delhi and Bengal nobles so that the chances of these two countries splitting up again would be lessened. He bulit a series of fortifications across the Ganges, solidifying Delhi control over the region. Firoz Shah died in Lucknow while preparing a campaign to conquer the Odia realms. Firoz Shah was an educated Sultan who patronized the arts and philosophy. He constructed mosques and universities, as well as restored Hindu temples of the Rajputs.
  • 1398: Plans to invade the Odia states are put to halt because of Timurid incursion. The Timurids are soundly defeated by Sultan Mahmud Khan's army as they crossed the Indus, thus ending the Timurid campaign into India.
  • 1425: A succession crisis triggerred by the death of the Eastern Gangas's unpopular monarch Bhanudeva IV engulfed Odisha. Civil war broke out between those loyal to the dynasty and supporters of Bhanudeva's minister Kapilendra. In the midst of this conflict, a Tughlaq army marching from Bengal commanded by the Sultan and his relative Nusrat Shah marched across the coast to Odisha, launching a campaign towards the war-torn state that would be finished five years later. Nasiruddin Mahmud Shah died in 1430, with Nusrat Shah succeeding him.
  • 1440-1500: This era saw less conflicts and wars occuring compared to the 14th century, dubbed the "Century of Blood' by many Muslim historians. Sultans of Delhi funded conversion efforts in its newly-conquered territories in the Deccan and Odisha, with varying degrees of success. The Holy Qur'an was translated to Hindustani and Bengali during this period. The end of the 15th century saw Muslims eclipsing Hindus in population growth, and ultimately overall population.
  • 1500-1530: Campaigns towards upper Kashmir and Assam, as well as the vassalization of hill tribes in eastern Bengal. During this time a succession crisis happened in the Delhi Sultanate because Nasruddin Muhammad, the Tughlaq Sultan, died without an heir, prompting his two brothers to vie for the throne. One side invited the Turkic warlord Babur to attack Delhi, but despite his initial success, Babur was defeated by the next Tughlaq ruler, Abdullah I. With the death of his brother in battle, Abdullah was proclaimed Sultan; he married his eldest daughter to Babur and granted him land in Uttar Pradesh to settle. Abdullah I adopted many of Babur and the Mughal clan's battle tactics, including the use of cannons. Firearms and artillery became more integrated into Delhi military.
  • 1561: Abdullah II ascended the throne as the Sultan of Delhi. While his dynasty is Turkic in origin, Abdullah I (his grandfather) married a Persian noble of Hashemite origin, and this made him a descendant of Prophet Muhammad's family, although many would consider it invalid because it is not passed through the male line. Nonetheless, Abdullah II pressed the claim, and he had his ulemas declare himself Caliph of the Hashemite line, and that his country's name would be changed into something more reflecting of its geography and culture: India, called Hindustan in the native language of the country. Abdullah II also elevated Hindustani to court language status - a rather symbolic move, because it already serves as the language of administration, and practically is as common in the Capital as Persian, but cemented the country's shift into an Indian nation, no longer a foreign dynasty ruling over a city. He and subsequent Hindustani emperors maintained calm relations with Persia. This process was accomplished with the help of his prime minister, Babur, the Turkic warlord that was rewarded with land by his father decades ago.
  • 1591: Akbar ascended the throne. Wary of the rising Safavid dynasty, Emperor Akbar sought to improve relations with Persia instead. Akbar arranged a marriage between his heir, Nasruddin, and the daughter of the Persian ruler. Baluchistan, a Persian-speaking region, was given to Persia as a dowry; the Hindustanis eliminated a mountainous, hard to control province, and the Persians received a portion of ethnic Persian (Baluch) territory, without any conflict, and resulting in a quasi-alliance instead.
RP Sample:

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Last edited by Dogutrakya on Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:50 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Oscalantine
Minister
 
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Founded: Apr 17, 2008
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Oscalantine » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:41 pm

Khasinkonia wrote:Granted, Albion and I should also discuss our shared history as soon as possible, as if they should need a Norman Duchy, I'd prefer to know while my history is still hazy.


Granted, we SHOULD.

I... had my idea, but I wasn't sure if you were up for it. The long and short of it would be that Albion's relationship with Normandy (at least, according to what I had in mind) would start and end far earlier than IRL, leading to a quasi-100-years-war that would happen in the 1200s and stretching to 1300s and not 1300s and ending in 1400s.

The main rationale of this is that, because I am planning my divergence based upon the Bretons would fight off Saxon invasion completely under the leadership of a tribal king who would later be romanticized as King Arthur, and the resulting ramification based on Welsh-centralized British Isles. To make the history of my nation connected to the popular Arthurian tale as possible, I did elect to use this opportunity to include a person from Northern France, although he probably would NOT be Normans and the province wouldn't have been considered Normandy at the time.

From there, my story would be that this territory of northern France would belong to Albion until the William Wallace's rebellion in the 1200s, where the final large-scale Scottish challenge to Welsh conquerors would happen simultaneously with the French reconquest of its northern territories. There Albion would have to concede defeat and cede territory, which would lead to somewhat tense relationship between Albion and whoever would have France at the time.

At least, this was how I previously planned my nation. Please, if you would like, I would really like to pick and choose which part of the story you would like to place into your own history... or even give me an idea from your book, so I can bounce off of yours. Trace is putting me on a tighter leash than in last iteration (my idea, not his) and I would love to finish my historical consistencies done faster rather than later.

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Empire of Techkotal
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Posts: 127
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Empire of Techkotal » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:18 pm

Reverend Norv wrote:I am contemplating an application for the Low Countries, on the theory that they make for a plausible cradle of the Reformation in this timeline: Europe's most urbanized, wealthy, bourgeois society would be most inclined to break with the imperial Chalcedonian churches. First, though, I'd like to check whether there is any existing canon about where the Reformation emerged and when, and I'd like to inquire as to any established history of the Holy Roman Empire and the rest of Germany.


Welcome to the Union.
As for the Reformation we just went with the IRL Reformation from Martin Luther in Wittenberg and later Calvin, but you can change it, if you feel the need to do so.

Just remember the 30 year war is gonna happen and we will have a good time bullying the Liga.
Last edited by Empire of Techkotal on Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25609
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Tracian Empire » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:49 pm

Arvenia wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Fei Dynasty
Territory: Rest of China, Mongolia, Altai Republic, Tuva Republic, Irkutsk Oblast, Amur Oblast, Zabaykalsky Oblast, Buryatia and Yakutia
#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

That sounds fair, reservation accepted
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Tracian Empire
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Posts: 25609
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Tracian Empire » Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:51 pm

Union Princes wrote:Might do a united kingdom under Oliver Cromwell. A monarchy with no King

I'm afraid that we already have a reservation for the British Isles. If it does expire you'd be more than welcome to try it, it could be an interesting concept, but if not, are there any other nations/concepts you'd be interested in?
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25609
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Tracian Empire » Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:01 am

Reverend Norv wrote:I am contemplating an application for the Low Countries, on the theory that they make for a plausible cradle of the Reformation in this timeline: Europe's most urbanized, wealthy, bourgeois society would be most inclined to break with the imperial Chalcedonian churches. First, though, I'd like to check whether there is any existing canon about where the Reformation emerged and when, and I'd like to inquire as to any established history of the Holy Roman Empire and the rest of Germany.

With Kai's Western Roman Empire out the situation has changed in that Orthodoxy is still in a Great Schism with Catholicism.

Now, as for the Holy Roman Empire and Germany, specific history would still have to be hashed out once the Gallic player shows us his history, but he has already accepted to make it so that Gaul gets temporarily/partially conquered by the Franks so we can generally assume that the history of the HRE and of Germany is happening roughly pretty much the same as in real life. The Catholic League and the Protestant Union have been formed, the Reformation formed much like in real life, and the Emperor is Catholic, and if we do not receive a player for said Catholic Emperor, the NPC would be a Habsburg Austria.

I like the idea that the Reformation could appear in the Low Countries though, and the concept could certainly be interesting, so I'd be looking forward to such an app.
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Empire of Techkotal
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Posts: 127
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Empire of Techkotal » Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:39 am

Full Nation Name: Electorate of Saxony-Prussia
Majority/Official Culture: Saxon
Territorial Core: https://imgur.com/a/C8NylwJ
Territorial Claim: Lands infested by heretic's.
Capital City: Leipzig
Population: 1.300.000

Government Type: Feudal-Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies:

Government Focus: Saxony is part of the Union an alliance formed to counter Catholic aggression in the HRE and to keep the right of religious freedom(that only goes for Christian religions in the HRE ). That said it also has a deeper reason for Saxony to be part of the Protestant alliance, because they would have to give back all the church property, if they were to become Catholic.

Head of State:
Image

Head of Government: Duke of Saxony and Prussia Johann George I.

Government Description: The electorate of Saxony-Prussia/ Kurfürstentum Sachsen-Preussen is a feudal monarchy, but as the normal feudal monarchy one might think of immediately. The HRE is an irregular case. The first difference being, that the elector is as the name implies the elector of the emperor of the holy roman empire. So to say he is part of grander state when his one. Due to the HRE having a more thought out government then its neighbors, which was achieved through promises and compromises. The HRE is relatively peaceful.
Lets start with the lowest ranks the peasants. They have few rights. But their work is fundamental for the landlord. The pay their taxes to the regional tax collectors, knights and other entities. Should they be wronged by their feudal lord, they can go to one of the local courts. There they can sue their lords over any injustice. If they were to poor to pay for a lawyer and investigator the state would found it for them and they would only have to pay it once they could actually afford to pay. This reached such extents that many lords complained about the system, due to them being constantly blocked. It also happened quite often, because the peasants used it to relieve their unrest over their feudal lord. Should they not get in to the local court they could go to the Reichskammergericht in Speyer.

The Reichskammergericht is above the local courts and was know for not being biased. The only problem was, that some powerful dukedoms like the electorates had managed to get special rights. Their subjects didn't have the right to go to the Reichskammergericht. Just to give you an Idea during the early 17th century there were 700 cases brought for the Reichskammergericht a year. Which is the primary reasons why there were so few rebellions in the HRE. Most of them occurring in the south were the dukes had gotten special rights.

If you still had a problem with your feudal lord you had a very special right, which didn't exist in the medieval times. The right of migration was very important. Before you were practically bound to your land and trying to go away was punishable. You could only gain freedom, if you stayed inside a city without your lord coming to look for you.
There is an old saying from those time "City air makes free."/"Stadtluft macht frei.", which implied how important it was. Now this new law made it possible to leave after paying a crippling tax on everything. Which was the reason why most people didn't chose that option, if you chose to flee without paying you got the death penalty.

The cities had a lot more rights. The lord had nearly no power over the cities and they also managed their own taxes. The feudal lord could set the taxes in the cities, but only if the city council was weak. If a strong city council decided to resist he wouldn't be able to go against them. But at the end of the day the city still had to pay taxes to their lord unless they were a free city state in which case their taxes went directly to the emperor.

The feudal lords. Unlike how many think of them today had very little actual power. Their state just didn't have the technology and infrastructure to effectively control everything. But the lords made use of extensive rules of conduct ranging from regular church visits to how they had to wear their clothes. Apart from that they only had military power and the normal rights of landlord. They could freely build bridges, roads and castles, that is if they had the money to do so. The feudal lords also had the right to change the religion of their territory, which had profound consequences for their subjects. If a Catholic chose Protestantism all his subject had to convert, which caused problems for fanatics.
There was a special court for the nobles the Reichshofrat. It was the highest court in the empire and normally resided at the emperors residence or city.

Imperial administration. The empire wasn't really all that messed up like it looks on many maps. It behaved more like a federal state similar to the US do today. The emperor ruled with very little actual power, but he had a lot of prestige. Going against the emperors edicts would lead to civil unrest and could also lead to the death of the noble, but apart from edicts the emperor only ruled over his own realm. The taxes gathered went mostly to the state officials, the army and the realm of the emperor or the treasury.

The administration, which actually ruled the empire were the Reichskreise. They were a collection of federal states bound together executing one task like: coinage, Homeland security and border security. There were a total of ten Reichskreise all doing their tasks in the HRE.

Above the Reichskreise were the Institutions those were the two higher courts and the Reichstag. The Reichstag was convened by the Emperor/Kaiser and functioned as the all German Parliament. It convened irregularly at changing locations and there they decided empire wide taxes for wars. The Reichstag consists out of three chambers/ drei Kurien. The first consisted out of the electorates, that choose the emperor. The second chamber consisted out of the 85 principalities and 120 not princely sovereigns. The all of the second chamber together only amounted to two votes. The third chamber consisted out of the free city states and had very little real power. They could speak their opinion, but were mostly ignored.



Majority/State Religion: Protestant
Religious Description: The Reformations is spreading around Europe and Saxony is no exception. Especially since you can freely confiscate the Catholic church's estates and properties.

Economic Description: Saxony is a rich electorate in the HRE. With the end of the medieval ages mining activities started in the Ore Mountains region. There they extract copper, iron, silver and tin in great quantities. Other products from the region included lime and marble. Due to the availability of ores the copper and iron production is very high in Saxony, though it cannot be compared to the production in Nürnberg or Austria.

The dukedom of Prussia primarily produces wood and wheat for exports and that's about it.

Since the start of the exploration age Saxony entered the stage and funded several voyages to India and China from dutch companies. With the acquisition of Prussia Saxony has started to build its own trade ships and take the full risk (and get the all of the reward) of their voyages. The only problem being they still have to pay the dutch for access to their ports in their overseas holdings.

Major Production: Wheat, Silver and products made out of iron and copper (I'm not gonna list them here)


Army Description : There are a few knights and their guards for the castles. The cities are protected by the town guard but overall there is no standing army. In case of war the Saxon army consist out of mercenaries like: Tercios formations (rectangular formations of musketeers and pike man), black riders, poor knights, gunners and several siege oriented mercenary groups.
Army Weakness : The army isn't very fast and has next to no mobility compared to the cavalry heavy armies of the Polish or the steppe riders in the east.

Naval Description : The Saxon navy is slowly being increased, but doesn't pose a threat to any of the big naval powers of the region. The navy had:
2 Mauritius type ships
4 Full-rigged pinnace ships with 8 cannons, 100 tons
3 Madre de Deus
2 dozend Fluyts armed with 4-6 cannons
Naval Weakness : The navy lacks size and consists mainly out of trade ships.

Further Military Description : The navy of Saxony is still being built and the army is only recruited before a military campaign, but Saxony has one of the largest stockpiles of weapons in the HRE, which come from their ease of producing them. There are only few great arsenals in the HRE and they are in Bavaria, Bohemia, Austria and Saxony. These are the main sellers of weapons the rest posses less weapons, but not much. At the end of the day it doesn't come down to weapons, but to the ability to actually maintain an army.

National Goals : Gain new territory. No I mean literally Saxony was quite opportunistic during this time.
National Issues : There is increasing hostility between Protestants and Catholics and the emperor is a Catholic.
National Figures of Interest : Elector Johann George I. of Saxony and its field marshal
National Ambition/Aspirations : Getting a crown. Since being a kings is better then being a duke.

History : After the Leipzig division the two brothers Albert and Ernst divided Saxony. Albert became duke of Saxony (his part) and his elder brother became electorate of Saxony. The Albetine line later succeeded their ancestor Frederick of Saxony Grand master of the Teuton Order. After the Order had been defeated in the 13 year war from 1454-66 they became a fief of the kingdom of Poland. In 1511 Henry the Pious of the Albertine line became Grand master. As good Teuton tradition they tried to resist the Polish kingdom. They were then defeated in the coming war. Henry the Pious then transformed the Order into a dukedom and recognized the polish king as his sovereign. In exchange he and his family could keep their dukedom.

Several years later the Albertine line and the Ernestine line clashed with each other. The Albertine emerged victorious and reunited the two parts of Saxony and becoming electors in HRE. During the reign of Henry the Pious in Prussia he changed the religion of his territory to Protestantism in 1525. Allowing him to annex the churches estates. His brother George the Bearded followed his brother a little bit later. When George died in 1539 Henry the Pious became the electorate of Saxony, duke of Saxony and duke of Prussia. In 1543 the heir Moritz of Saxony founded 3 schools in Saxony under the dreyen Schulen plan with a total of 230 pupils. They got an above average education financed by the state. The schools were so effective that many others copied the idea. Leading to the foundation of Schools like; Heilsbronn or the Joachimtalsche Gymnasium.
Moritz later allied with the many protestant leaders in the HRE and lead them in a rebellion against the emperor. The emperor caught by surprise fled to Italy and after the catholic states in the south had been taken peace was negotiated. The protestants were now in 1555 officially recognized in the HRE. Moritz died two years later.

His successor was August of Saxony also called father of Saxony. In 1567 he conquered Ghotta and integrated it into his electorate. He later commenced with the publication of the Lutheran book of concord. In 1583 his wife died and two years later August remarried. It might be love, but the age difference between August (60) and his new wife Agnes Hedwig (13) was controversial at best. He died one month later.
His son Christian I. came to power and under his rule the first measurement of the electorate of Saxony-Prussia was started. He passed away in 1591.
One of his three sons Christian II. came to power in 1591 and ruled until 1611, though saying he ruled is a bit far fetched. According to historians of his time he was fat and a dimwit incapable of leading Saxony, which is why his advisors ruled in his stead. Their rule saw great improvement for Saxony as tariffs were optimized and Saxony invested into the dutch spice trade. Even going as far as establishing their own merchant navy and trading alongside the dutch, though they couldn't compete, due to fees from the dutch. They still made great profits. When Johann George I. came to power he inherited the most powerful protestant realm in the HRE. Building up its fleet and building up its wealth like the king of Denmark.

RP Sample: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=517288

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)
Last edited by Empire of Techkotal on Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:08 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Khasinkonia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6214
Founded: Feb 02, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Khasinkonia » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:14 am

Oscalantine wrote:
Khasinkonia wrote:Granted, Albion and I should also discuss our shared history as soon as possible, as if they should need a Norman Duchy, I'd prefer to know while my history is still hazy.


Granted, we SHOULD.

I... had my idea, but I wasn't sure if you were up for it. The long and short of it would be that Albion's relationship with Normandy (at least, according to what I had in mind) would start and end far earlier than IRL, leading to a quasi-100-years-war that would happen in the 1200s and stretching to 1300s and not 1300s and ending in 1400s.

The main rationale of this is that, because I am planning my divergence based upon the Bretons would fight off Saxon invasion completely under the leadership of a tribal king who would later be romanticized as King Arthur, and the resulting ramification based on Welsh-centralized British Isles. To make the history of my nation connected to the popular Arthurian tale as possible, I did elect to use this opportunity to include a person from Northern France, although he probably would NOT be Normans and the province wouldn't have been considered Normandy at the time.

From there, my story would be that this territory of northern France would belong to Albion until the William Wallace's rebellion in the 1200s, where the final large-scale Scottish challenge to Welsh conquerors would happen simultaneously with the French reconquest of its northern territories. There Albion would have to concede defeat and cede territory, which would lead to somewhat tense relationship between Albion and whoever would have France at the time.

At least, this was how I previously planned my nation. Please, if you would like, I would really like to pick and choose which part of the story you would like to place into your own history... or even give me an idea from your book, so I can bounce off of yours. Trace is putting me on a tighter leash than in last iteration (my idea, not his) and I would love to finish my historical consistencies done faster rather than later.

Ideally, I had intended for the Franks to be more like an invading dynasty that ruled for a few generations than something that would have established a long-term hold. Similarly, I doubt the Vikings would have received a territory like Normandy due to the way the Gaulish government is set up (Electoral Monarchy with a pseudo-prime ministry/cabinet that evolved from the secularisation of the druid class). If you’re going for a Celtic Britain. It’s plausible that one of the kings of the tribes along the Channel might have married in and pressed a claim on territory in Albion. Personally, since we’re both coincidentally going for Celts pushing back their invaders, I would be interested to see if there might be a sort of Celtic fraternity that could develop, as I was planning on Gaul having a sense of something akin to an early form of nationalism, and rather chilly relations with anything Germanic or Latin.

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Oscalantine
Minister
 
Posts: 2756
Founded: Apr 17, 2008
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Oscalantine » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:34 am

Khasinkonia wrote:Ideally, I had intended for the Franks to be more like an invading dynasty that ruled for a few generations than something that would have established a long-term hold. Similarly, I doubt the Vikings would have received a territory like Normandy due to the way the Gaulish government is set up (Electoral Monarchy with a pseudo-prime ministry/cabinet that evolved from the secularisation of the druid class). If you’re going for a Celtic Britain. It’s plausible that one of the kings of the tribes along the Channel might have married in and pressed a claim on territory in Albion. Personally, since we’re both coincidentally going for Celts pushing back their invaders, I would be interested to see if there might be a sort of Celtic fraternity that could develop, as I was planning on Gaul having a sense of something akin to an early form of nationalism, and rather chilly relations with anything Germanic or Latin.


Hmmm... I think I can work with this. How about this, dude?

1. As King Arthur consolidates his uncontested power as the "high king" of all kings of Breton (that being both in Wales and in England) as the defender of the land of Breton from Saxons, a prominent warrior from northern France comes hearing the feats of Arthur, and the two become steadfast friends in the coming years as Arthur pushes his claims towards northern Scotland and beyond. The warrior would eventually be written in the Round Table Records as "Sir Lancelot," although his actual name will be forgotten in the passage of time.

2. Since the reign of King Arthur's exploits would be around the same time as Norman invasion of Northern France, Lancelot would be compelled to return back to his home to defend his people. King Arthur, seeing this as mirroring his own past with the Saxons, joins Lancelot across the Chanel. However, Arthur was in on his years and his sword arm not as swift. While it is unknown as to which battle did him in, but Arthur dies from defending Lancelot's home from the Normans, although his body is never found. (which is what I need to start my own timeline as "acting High King" Mordred.)


From there, we can sort of have an amenable friendship. Most likely that the few generations after King Arthur's death, the relationship between Bretons and Gauls would be soured as Bretons would blame them for their High King's hiatus. However, I imagine that the relationship will become more friendly and eventually becoming friendship as the members of Lacelot's descendants who stayed in Albion will work towards amending ties with their ancestral home.

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Khasinkonia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6214
Founded: Feb 02, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Khasinkonia » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:52 am

Oscalantine wrote:
Khasinkonia wrote:Ideally, I had intended for the Franks to be more like an invading dynasty that ruled for a few generations than something that would have established a long-term hold. Similarly, I doubt the Vikings would have received a territory like Normandy due to the way the Gaulish government is set up (Electoral Monarchy with a pseudo-prime ministry/cabinet that evolved from the secularisation of the druid class). If you’re going for a Celtic Britain. It’s plausible that one of the kings of the tribes along the Channel might have married in and pressed a claim on territory in Albion. Personally, since we’re both coincidentally going for Celts pushing back their invaders, I would be interested to see if there might be a sort of Celtic fraternity that could develop, as I was planning on Gaul having a sense of something akin to an early form of nationalism, and rather chilly relations with anything Germanic or Latin.


Hmmm... I think I can work with this. How about this, dude?

1. As King Arthur consolidates his uncontested power as the "high king" of all kings of Breton (that being both in Wales and in England) as the defender of the land of Breton from Saxons, a prominent warrior from northern France comes hearing the feats of Arthur, and the two become steadfast friends in the coming years as Arthur pushes his claims towards northern Scotland and beyond. The warrior would eventually be written in the Round Table Records as "Sir Lancelot," although his actual name will be forgotten in the passage of time.

2. Since the reign of King Arthur's exploits would be around the same time as Norman invasion of Northern France, Lancelot would be compelled to return back to his home to defend his people. King Arthur, seeing this as mirroring his own past with the Saxons, joins Lancelot across the Chanel. However, Arthur was in on his years and his sword arm not as swift. While it is unknown as to which battle did him in, but Arthur dies from defending Lancelot's home from the Normans, although his body is never found. (which is what I need to start my own timeline as "acting High King" Mordred.)


From there, we can sort of have an amenable friendship. Most likely that the few generations after King Arthur's death, the relationship between Bretons and Gauls would be soured as Bretons would blame them for their High King's hiatus. However, I imagine that the relationship will become more friendly and eventually becoming friendship as the members of Lacelot's descendants who stayed in Albion will work towards amending ties with their ancestral home.

I like that. I think if you wanted, you could also factor in that I think Gaul could have actually been subject to something not dissimilar from the Lithuanian Crusade and/or Wendish Crusades, which might also account for the Holy Roman Empire’s current extent at the expense of the Gaul and Belgica of antiquity. In essence, I’m thinking Gaul would have remaining incompletely Christianised until some time around the beginning of the Late Medieval Period. I don’t know what the process for the Christianisation of Britain looks like, but that’s where I’m at for the time being.

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Oscalantine
Minister
 
Posts: 2756
Founded: Apr 17, 2008
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Oscalantine » Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:22 am

Khasinkonia wrote:I like that. I think if you wanted, you could also factor in that I think Gaul could have actually been subject to something not dissimilar from the Lithuanian Crusade and/or Wendish Crusades, which might also account for the Holy Roman Empire’s current extent at the expense of the Gaul and Belgica of antiquity. In essence, I’m thinking Gaul would have remaining incompletely Christianised until some time around the beginning of the Late Medieval Period. I don’t know what the process for the Christianisation of Britain looks like, but that’s where I’m at for the time being.


Christian status of Britain? Secular.

The main rationale is mostly to do with Bretons keeping Celtic tradition. While this is romanticized in the Round Table Records as Mordred forgiving Lancelot after Arthur's hiatus for his adulterous relationship with Queen Guinevere (and thus going against the Church's statement at the time that Lancelot and Guinevere must be executed as adulterers they are), basically the line of High Kings' legitimacy as "Pendragon" came from druids and not the Church. So while Arthur was a devout Christian according to myth, the line of High Kings gradually moved towards tolerance of all religion in an attempt to appease both the Christian majority in the land that became prominent during Arthur's reign while keeping the Celtic tradition which gave legitimacy to the fledgling Pendragon lineage.

This, of course, is not the same sense of "secularism" as we see in irl nations, as Albion's Christian Knights still participated in the Crusades with the High King's blessing and Muslims were persecuted until relatively recently. Catholic Inquisitions were also allowed to scour the countryside during the Protestant Reformation, and although Lutheran and Calvinists have recently been recognized as a bastardization of Christian faith and thus tolerated, other, less well-known denomination of Protestantism is actively persecuted in Albion as Satanic worship.

So... as secular and inclusive as druidic Christians can be.
Last edited by Oscalantine on Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Reverend Norv
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Founded: Jun 20, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reverend Norv » Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:26 am

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Nation Name: The United States of the Netherlands ("States" here carries the Dutch meaning of a governing assembly, not necessarily a sovereign power; a more accurate rendering would be "The United Assemblies").
Territory: The historic territories of the Netherlands, Flanders, and East Frisia.
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For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
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