NATION

PASSWORD

[DEFEATED] Repeal SC#52 "Condemn The Black Hawks"

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Blood Wine
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1684
Founded: Jan 12, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Blood Wine » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 am

Praeceps wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:
It will fail spectacularly. Seems like a huge waste of time. Don't say you weren't warned.

I'm curious. With what math are you using to arrive to this conclusion? I can see some of the big Delegates voting For. I also can see some voting Against. However, I can't think of a scenario to be so confident as to state "it will fail spectacularly".


Where are you getting this?
Formerly known as Port Blood
Current foreign Minister of gay
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
Tim-Opolis wrote:The Salt Mines will be fueled for months by the tears of silly fascists.

[4:27 PM] Antigone: Port Blood = Gameplay Jesus

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5123
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:46 pm

Blood Wine wrote:
Praeceps wrote:I'm curious. With what math are you using to arrive to this conclusion? I can see some of the big Delegates voting For. I also can see some voting Against. However, I can't think of a scenario to be so confident as to state "it will fail spectacularly".


Where are you getting this?

Presumably from his knowledge of the voting habits & preferences of superdelegate and their associated regions.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Lieutenant and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5111
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:31 pm

You may still offer your thoughts on this proposal before the train leaves the station at about 6pm BST on Monday.

* Mayor: Saffron Howard (UCP; libertarian)
* Foreign Minister: Ryan Terrence (TLP)
* WA Delegate-Ambassador: Alexander Smith (NatSov)
* WA Assistant: Bianca Venkman (IntFed)

User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5111
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:21 pm

Tinhampton wrote:You may still offer your thoughts on this proposal before the train leaves the station at about 6pm BST on Monday.

As I've said, you have thirty-six hours left to suggest improvements before I submit this one.

* Mayor: Saffron Howard (UCP; libertarian)
* Foreign Minister: Ryan Terrence (TLP)
* WA Delegate-Ambassador: Alexander Smith (NatSov)
* WA Assistant: Bianca Venkman (IntFed)

User avatar
Marxist Germany
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1544
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:26 am

"The Black Hawks deserve those two condemnations, I shall be voting against whenever this reaches vote."
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461, GA#470, and GA#477

Ex-delegate of The United Federations; citizen of 10000 Islands | Gaming User#0721(Discord)
RP name: Germany
The National Factbook (WIP)
Ambassador Klaus Schmidt
Political Compass
PolitiStates Result
Pro:Laissez-faire, Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, Same-sex marriage, United Ireland.
Anti:Extreme Progressivism, Abortion, Socialism, Interventionism, Mass-migration.
A high school student aged 15 from Ireland, living in Co. Dublin. Interested in politics, gaming, and history.

User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5111
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:08 am

And with all that said and done, we are now Proposal-A-Go-Go.

* Mayor: Saffron Howard (UCP; libertarian)
* Foreign Minister: Ryan Terrence (TLP)
* WA Delegate-Ambassador: Alexander Smith (NatSov)
* WA Assistant: Bianca Venkman (IntFed)

User avatar
Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2362
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:54 am

SC#52 is of historical importance. As the co-author of SC#217, I have no interest in seeing SC#52 repealed, and will be voting against should it come to vote.
Cormac Skollvaldr
Liberty, Democracy, Solidarity - Thalassia

"Follow your arrow wherever it points." - Kacey Musgraves

User avatar
Wayneactia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 576
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Corporate Bordello

Postby Wayneactia » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:17 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:SC#52 is of historical importance. As the co-author of SC#217, I have no interest in seeing SC#52 repealed, and will be voting against should it come to vote.


I would have to agree. The Hawks have definitely earned both of their badges, and haven't done anything to warrant losing them.

Opposed.

User avatar
Kaboomlandia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7345
Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:29 pm

Nope. The Hawks are honourable raiders and people who earned both of those badges. Opposed.
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
Co-Author of SC #204
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains."

User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5111
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:01 pm

Image
Draft 3b - a slimmed-down version of the proposal that failed to make quorum about two minutes ago - will be posted on October 17th.

AS OF 0459 BST ON FRIDAY: Approvals: 59 out of 64 needed (Kuriko, Artsotska, Ransium, Johanneslanden, Silberfluss, Leranditale, Candensia, Kyorgia, Hulldom, Skundi, Aynia Moreaux, United Massachusetts, Ashaie, El Fiji Grande, Valastane, Scardinius, Dragons of Power, New Order Philippines, Aqun-Athlok, Honk Donk, Peoples Republic of California, Ex Patrian SSR, Austronta, Mezi Mori, Greater Ottonna, Omaha Utopia, Smiley Bob, The Wellywood Colony of the Balckowain, Territories of Illinois, Rosyanna, Kvasheim, Zombiedolphins, Caezar, The Greater Low Countries, Refuge Isle, Integralists Of Brazil, Jocospor, Jalous, Tic Cove, Andromedian, The Tomerlands, Royal Kingdom of Ni, Corgislakia, Greater Serbian Provinces, Mikeswill, New Legland, Corrocium, SFR Philippines, Ramenkyo, Sunam, The Flyin, United Island States of Southeast Asia, Vrolondia, 7LM Powerhouse, Woods Is Back, Kamchakta, Bietzopolis, Victoria and Cascadia, Toopaka)

* Mayor: Saffron Howard (UCP; libertarian)
* Foreign Minister: Ryan Terrence (TLP)
* WA Delegate-Ambassador: Alexander Smith (NatSov)
* WA Assistant: Bianca Venkman (IntFed)

User avatar
Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2362
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:02 pm

Seconds ago: The Security Council proposal "Repeal "Condemn The Black Hawks"" [Tinhampton] failed to achieve quorum.

Whew, that was a close one. Only five approvals to go in the last half hour. I thought my counter-campaign might actually fail there for a minute.

Congratulations to the campaigner(s) on a photo finish. Very competitive and fun to watch. See you again in October. ;)
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cormac Skollvaldr
Liberty, Democracy, Solidarity - Thalassia

"Follow your arrow wherever it points." - Kacey Musgraves

User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5111
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:33 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Seconds ago: The Security Council proposal "Repeal "Condemn The Black Hawks"" [Tinhampton] failed to achieve quorum.

Whew, that was a close one. Only five approvals to go in the last half hour. I thought my counter-campaign might actually fail there for a minute.

Congratulations to the campaigner(s) on a photo finish. Very competitive and fun to watch. See you again in October. ;)

For the record, I was the sole canvasser (as New Islet) for the proposition, using the same API telegramming tools that have helped bring seven of my proposals to the floor, and was completely oblivious to the Cormac Counter.

Will that be eight come Halloween time or will my husband finally allow me to buy stamps? Who knows, long may the sparring last... wait, no :P

* Mayor: Saffron Howard (UCP; libertarian)
* Foreign Minister: Ryan Terrence (TLP)
* WA Delegate-Ambassador: Alexander Smith (NatSov)
* WA Assistant: Bianca Venkman (IntFed)

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5123
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:06 pm

It is likely that someone was running a counter-counter campaign, given that some delegates re-approved after Cormac's counter-campaign got them to un-approve.

Unless that was also you :p
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Lieutenant and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5111
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:43 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:It is likely that someone was running a counter-counter campaign, given that some delegates re-approved after Cormac's counter-campaign got them to un-approve.

Unless that was also you :p

Wait, I was fighting fire with fire in the first place? I was under the impression that the big barrel of... stuff I was using at the time was clearly labelled "MIRACLE PROPOSAL FERTILISER" :P

Tinhampton wrote:I... was completely oblivious to the Cormac Counter

* Mayor: Saffron Howard (UCP; libertarian)
* Foreign Minister: Ryan Terrence (TLP)
* WA Delegate-Ambassador: Alexander Smith (NatSov)
* WA Assistant: Bianca Venkman (IntFed)

User avatar
Praeceps
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 177
Founded: Feb 08, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Praeceps » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:18 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:SC#52 is of historical importance. As the co-author of SC#217, I have no interest in seeing SC#52 repealed, and will be voting against should it come to vote.

This argument has been advanced before in other resolutions. Other people replied to that line of argumentation there so I will just quote one of those people instead:

This is supposed to be international law, not art. You don't preserve bad laws for historical purposes; you replace them with better laws. This is yet another example of people socializing and personalizing this game to such a degree that we're losing a sense of what it's really supposed to be.


For those disinclined to click the link, the person I am quoting is Cormac. The last sentence of your quote is not relevant for this particular scenario, but the first two sentences are.

If you have changed your opinion since December 2018, I will not hold it against you—opinions do change over time—although it is not that long ago. The resolution proposed claims there are multiple erroneous statements in TBH's first condemnation. As I have not seen anyone refuting them, I am led to believe these assertions on the factual inaccuracies are correct. I think a resolution with severe errors can be classified as "bad".

I haven't seen Tinhampton advance the opinion that TBH is undeserving of two condemnations, that may very well be their stance, yet, they have not argued from what I have seen that TBH is underserving of two condemnations. Their argument is that it is a bad resolution.

And you don't preserve bad laws for historical purposes; you replace them with better laws.

Lord Dominator wrote:It is likely that someone was running a counter-counter campaign, given that some delegates re-approved after Cormac's counter-campaign got them to un-approve.

Unless that was also you :p

:unsure:
Apparently simultaneously a Ravenclaw puppet, a NPO plant, and a Warden spy. I had no idea I was that good. Depending on who you ask, my aliases include Krulltopia.

Guildmaster of The North Pacific Cards Guild

User avatar
Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2362
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:10 am

Praeceps wrote:The resolution proposed claims there are multiple erroneous statements in TBH's first condemnation. As I have not seen anyone refuting them, I am led to believe these assertions on the factual inaccuracies are correct. I think a resolution with severe errors can be classified as "bad".

I admittedly haven't been following this that closely, but I haven't seen Tinhampton prove any of the claims made in SC#52 were erroneous. As far as I know, The Black Hawks maintain the claims made by SC#52 weren't erroneous. I'm unsure why we should accept Tinhampton's claims that SC#52 is erroneous at face value. There doesn't seem to be much proof anymore either way, and none of us were there.

The bottom line for me is I don't think a strong enough case has been made against the resolution in question to justify repealing it. I do believe it's acceptable to repeal bad historical resolutions, but I'm not convinced this one is bad enough to warrant repeal. That then leaves me questioning the motives for repeal, and I can't help but think for a lot of folks the motive is disliking TBH and wanting to remove one of their badges. I'm not interested in that. They earned these badges and I don't think a good enough case has been made for repealing one of them.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:54 am, edited 4 times in total.
Cormac Skollvaldr
Liberty, Democracy, Solidarity - Thalassia

"Follow your arrow wherever it points." - Kacey Musgraves

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5123
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:43 am

Incidentally, the Cormacquote mentions a replacement, which this does not have. Given the timeframe that would be to be covered, I'm not a 100% we could find enough stuff prior to the 1st (what, 2010, 2011?) to write a suitable replacement for this one.

I can run through claims made by the existing Condemnation & this proposed repeal later as someone who does have decent experience as a Hawk & knowledge thereof if it is wished.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Lieutenant and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

User avatar
Wayneactia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 576
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Corporate Bordello

Postby Wayneactia » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:59 am

Lord Dominator wrote:Incidentally, the Cormacquote mentions a replacement, which this does not have. Given the timeframe that would be to be covered, I'm not a 100% we could find enough stuff prior to the 1st (what, 2010, 2011?) to write a suitable replacement for this one.

I can run through claims made by the existing Condemnation & this proposed repeal later as someone who does have decent experience as a Hawk & knowledge thereof if it is wished.


OR... We could just leave things as is, and Tinhampton can do something else with her time.

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5123
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:05 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Incidentally, the Cormacquote mentions a replacement, which this does not have. Given the timeframe that would be to be covered, I'm not a 100% we could find enough stuff prior to the 1st (what, 2010, 2011?) to write a suitable replacement for this one.

I can run through claims made by the existing Condemnation & this proposed repeal later as someone who does have decent experience as a Hawk & knowledge thereof if it is wished.


OR... We could just leave things as is, and Tinhampton can do something else with her time.

They will likely not choose to drop this unless it fails at vote.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Lieutenant and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

User avatar
Wayneactia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 576
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Corporate Bordello

Postby Wayneactia » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:52 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:
OR... We could just leave things as is, and Tinhampton can do something else with her time.

They will likely not choose to drop this unless it fails at vote.


Pretty sure you are correct. Was just hoping Tinhampton would exercise some good judgment and drop this, but alas.

User avatar
Praeceps
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 177
Founded: Feb 08, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Praeceps » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:57 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Praeceps wrote:The resolution proposed claims there are multiple erroneous statements in TBH's first condemnation. As I have not seen anyone refuting them, I am led to believe these assertions on the factual inaccuracies are correct. I think a resolution with severe errors can be classified as "bad".

I admittedly haven't been following this that closely, but I haven't seen Tinhampton prove any of the claims made in SC#52 were erroneous. As far as I know, The Black Hawks maintain the claims made by SC#52 weren't erroneous. I'm unsure why we should accept Tinhampton's claims that SC#52 is erroneous at face value. There doesn't seem to be much proof anymore either way, and none of us were there.

The bottom line for me is I don't think a strong enough case has been made against the resolution in question to justify repealing it. I do believe it's acceptable to repeal bad historical resolutions, but I'm not convinced this one is bad enough to warrant repeal. That then leaves me questioning the motives for repeal, and I can't help but think for a lot of folks the motive is disliking TBH and wanting to remove one of their badges. I'm not interested in that. They earned these badges and I don't think a good enough case has been made for repealing one of them.

I was hoping Tinhampton would respond with evidence to back all of their claims up. They have offered evidence for some in the original post.

There's been a plethora of TBHers either current or former in this thread, were it be that Tinhampton's claims that SC#52's claims are erroneous is erroneous, I would have thought that someone would have pointed that out. Especially given their opposition to the resolution.

And while we are on the topic of a lack of evidence—the original resolution did not present evidence for all the statements presented there.
Apparently simultaneously a Ravenclaw puppet, a NPO plant, and a Warden spy. I had no idea I was that good. Depending on who you ask, my aliases include Krulltopia.

Guildmaster of The North Pacific Cards Guild

User avatar
Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6361
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:47 am

Some things are not worth the time to reply to every fourth week* when they come up again. Further, is it standard practice even today to “source” things beyond a certain degree of detail in the resolution text itself?

*exaggeration, but we’ve had about 3 per year for the past three years, and this very thread is almost three years old itself, but keeps coming back to life.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

User avatar
Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 4030
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fauxia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:43 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Some things are not worth the time to reply to every fourth week* when they come up again. Further, is it standard practice even today to “source” things beyond a certain degree of detail in the resolution text itself?

*exaggeration, but we’ve had about 3 per year for the past three years, and this very thread is almost three years old itself, but keeps coming back to life.

It’s been more than a year and a half since the last one, and perhaps this is the best one there is.

Feel free to vote against if you’re fatigued.
Don’t pick a fight with me, I am proficient with the weapon to which all shall fall in NationStates... inactivity.
Reploid Productions wrote:Unfortunately, Max still won't buy the mods elite ninja assassin squads to use, so... no such luck.

User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5111
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:24 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Draft 3b - a slimmed-down version of the proposal that failed to make quorum about two minutes ago - will be posted on October 17th.

I never told you what time I'd be putting it up for public comment - namely, also about two minutes ago. No, I don't mean two months ago :P

* Mayor: Saffron Howard (UCP; libertarian)
* Foreign Minister: Ryan Terrence (TLP)
* WA Delegate-Ambassador: Alexander Smith (NatSov)
* WA Assistant: Bianca Venkman (IntFed)

User avatar
Blood Wine
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1684
Founded: Jan 12, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Blood Wine » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:33 am

Still think this is gonna pass?
Formerly known as Port Blood
Current foreign Minister of gay
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
Tim-Opolis wrote:The Salt Mines will be fueled for months by the tears of silly fascists.

[4:27 PM] Antigone: Port Blood = Gameplay Jesus

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Security Council

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads