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NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Vol. 11.0

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 64013
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:52 am

I am reading this book about history of cadre NCO/Junior leadership in Finnish military and I wonder how common it's been in other countries with cadre/conscription system that part of cadre NCO's basic education is to bring them up patch up their civilian education if it's been spotty. Well in Form of crash course and even then it seems to have been at level that's just before high school/gymnasium and nothing fancy. Because education was laxer and shorter even in first half of 1900. lol
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
I ᴛʜɪɴᴋ I'ᴠᴇ ᴊᴜsᴛ ʜᴀᴅ ᴀ ɴᴇᴀʀ Aʀᴀʀᴀɢɪ ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴇɴᴄᴇ.
— Death. Probably.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15074
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:53 am

Silver Commonwealth wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Unlike a certain other weapon for speshul forces a nail gun doesn't punch through the front of a BMP-2.

Oh, special forces would definitely have way better weapons at their disposal than a nail gun, yeah. The nail gun for me just didn't seem like something which would be used by a regular soldier so it was one of the guesses.

A pistol firing 9 mm PB would probs have:
1. Better range
2. Far higher lethality

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Ideal Britain
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1599
Founded: Mar 31, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Ideal Britain » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:41 am

How can prisons turn criminals into good potential soldiers?

For reference Colchester Barracks turns military offenders into disciplined soldiers: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23793619 But how could a civilian prison do that?
A nation that does represent my views set in Britain in the late 2040s.
Current year: 2048
Leader:
Air-Commodore Sir Alexander Khan, Knight of the Garter, Commander of the British Empire, Bachelor of Science, MP.

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Dayganistan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1195
Founded: May 02, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dayganistan » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:44 am

Ideal Britain wrote:How can prisons turn criminals into good potential soldiers?

For reference Colchester Barracks turns military offenders into disciplined soldiers: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23793619 But how could a civilian prison do that?

That's not and should not be the point of a civilian prison. The point of a civilian prison is to reform people to participate in civilian society. They are not sources of bodies to throw at your problems.

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Ideal Britain
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1599
Founded: Mar 31, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Ideal Britain » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:48 am

Dayganistan wrote:
Ideal Britain wrote:How can prisons turn criminals into good potential soldiers?

For reference Colchester Barracks turns military offenders into disciplined soldiers: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23793619 But how could a civilian prison do that?

That's not and should not be the point of a civilian prison. The point of a civilian prison is to reform people to participate in civilian society. They are not sources of bodies to throw at your problems.

It is to reform them but why not reform them to participate in military society?
The British Army accepts ex-convicts for some crimes if it was years ago or they can prove they’ve reformed and most marines in the ‘90s Gulf War needed criminal history waivers.
A nation that does represent my views set in Britain in the late 2040s.
Current year: 2048
Leader:
Air-Commodore Sir Alexander Khan, Knight of the Garter, Commander of the British Empire, Bachelor of Science, MP.

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Ideal Britain
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1599
Founded: Mar 31, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Ideal Britain » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:50 am

Are Rastafarians likely to be bad soldiers?
A nation that does represent my views set in Britain in the late 2040s.
Current year: 2048
Leader:
Air-Commodore Sir Alexander Khan, Knight of the Garter, Commander of the British Empire, Bachelor of Science, MP.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15074
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:51 am

Ideal Britain wrote:
Dayganistan wrote:That's not and should not be the point of a civilian prison. The point of a civilian prison is to reform people to participate in civilian society. They are not sources of bodies to throw at your problems.

It is to reform them but why not reform them to participate in military society?
The British Army accepts ex-convicts for some crimes if it was years ago or they can prove they’ve reformed and most marines in the ‘90s Gulf War needed criminal history waivers.

Why don't you go toddle off to your own "Can Career Criminals be Soldiers??????????????????" thread?
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Ideal Britain
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Founded: Mar 31, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Ideal Britain » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:10 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Ideal Britain wrote:It is to reform them but why not reform them to participate in military society?
The British Army accepts ex-convicts for some crimes if it was years ago or they can prove they’ve reformed and most marines in the ‘90s Gulf War needed criminal history waivers.

Why don't you go toddle off to your own "Can Career Criminals be Soldiers??????????????????" thread?

I never said career criminal,
I’m mostly talking about dumb kids, first time offenders etc.
or habitual but petty young criminals.
See the link,
Colchester shows criminals can be reformed and made to be good soldiers
Last edited by Ideal Britain on Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
A nation that does represent my views set in Britain in the late 2040s.
Current year: 2048
Leader:
Air-Commodore Sir Alexander Khan, Knight of the Garter, Commander of the British Empire, Bachelor of Science, MP.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15074
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:15 am

Ideal Britain wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Why don't you go toddle off to your own "Can Career Criminals be Soldiers??????????????????" thread?

I never said career criminal,
I’m mostly talking about dumb kids, first time offenders etc.
or habitual but petty young criminals.
See the link,
Colchester shows criminals can be reformed and made to be good soldiers

Every time you try to argue this the questionmarks behind "Can Career Criminals be Soldiers..." grows logarithmically.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dayganistan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1195
Founded: May 02, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dayganistan » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:35 am

So most contemporary, non stealth fighter aircraft (I.e. Super Hornet Block III, Rafale, Gripen E, Eurofighter, Su-35, F-16V) all seem roughly equivalent to each other in capabilities. What are the specific factors a nation would look for when trying to select one over the other? I know cost and compatibility with existing stocks of weaponry is a big one. And obviously international politics would prevent certain countries from purchasing certain aircraft. But is there anything else that would lead a nation to pick one of these aircraft over the other or does it really just boil down to cost when they're all so similar in capability and the biggest difference is a couple thousand pounds of weapons payload or a couple hundred kilometers of range.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15074
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:36 am

Procurement in 2020 irl is 99% politics, 90% corruption and maybe 0.1% actual need. Of course you could have rational military actors requesting what they actually need and getting it in a timely and not too expensive manner in your fictional country instead.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Triplebaconation
Senator
 
Posts: 3938
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:47 am

When the special forces sneak into your bunker and hang a lot of drywall :(
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.


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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33617
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:31 pm

Ideal Britain wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Why don't you go toddle off to your own "Can Career Criminals be Soldiers??????????????????" thread?

I never said career criminal,
I’m mostly talking about dumb kids, first time offenders etc.
or habitual but petty young criminals.
See the link,
Colchester shows criminals can be reformed and made to be good soldiers

...didn't you ask about turning criminals into soldiers about a month back? Why are you asking again?
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:38 pm

Ideal Britain wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Why don't you go toddle off to your own "Can Career Criminals be Soldiers??????????????????" thread?

I never said career criminal,
I’m mostly talking about dumb kids, first time offenders etc.
or habitual but petty young criminals.
See the link,
Colchester shows criminals can be reformed and made to be good soldiers

A criminal is a criminal is a criminal. All criminals are simply ill trained attempts at humanity that are best discarded at a garbage heap rather than accepted into society. Putting firearms in their hands is a recipe for disaster.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Austrasien
Minister
 
Posts: 3104
Founded: Apr 07, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Austrasien » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:57 pm

Dayganistan wrote:So most contemporary, non stealth fighter aircraft (I.e. Super Hornet Block III, Rafale, Gripen E, Eurofighter, Su-35, F-16V) all seem roughly equivalent to each other in capabilities. What are the specific factors a nation would look for when trying to select one over the other? I know cost and compatibility with existing stocks of weaponry is a big one. And obviously international politics would prevent certain countries from purchasing certain aircraft. But is there anything else that would lead a nation to pick one of these aircraft over the other or does it really just boil down to cost when they're all so similar in capability and the biggest difference is a couple thousand pounds of weapons payload or a couple hundred kilometers of range.


The most important considerations in modern international procurement contests are generally:
  • Who can provide the most benefits to local industry through jobs and technology transfers
  • What political benefits can the maker provide
  • How many bribes are paid (not being flippant here there is substantial evidence of gross corruption in international procurement)
The leafposter formerly known as The Kievan People

The weak crumble, are slaughtered and are erased from history while the strong survive. The strong are respected and in the end, peace is made with the strong.

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Small Calibre Automatics
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Jul 23, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Small Calibre Automatics » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:30 am

Bullpup weapons platform. Some basing off the AR line and the AUG line. 6.8x55mm. GP, AP, API.

Special forces use exosuits and subsonic heavy calibre rifles, alongside thermobaric explosives and long distance hypersonic guided rifles.
Remember the law. Question all authority.

Keep the peace. Start a war.

State your case, and await judgement.

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Ideal Britain
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1599
Founded: Mar 31, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Ideal Britain » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:50 am

Purpelia wrote:
Ideal Britain wrote:I never said career criminal,
I’m mostly talking about dumb kids, first time offenders etc.
or habitual but petty young criminals.
See the link,
Colchester shows criminals can be reformed and made to be good soldiers

A criminal is a criminal is a criminal. All criminals are simply ill trained attempts at humanity that are best discarded at a garbage heap rather than accepted into society. Putting firearms in their hands is a recipe for disaster.

Are you serious?
Obama smoked weed in Uni, doesn’t mean he was an ineffective lawyer or statesman.
And people can be sent to county jail for that, getting a criminal record
A nation that does represent my views set in Britain in the late 2040s.
Current year: 2048
Leader:
Air-Commodore Sir Alexander Khan, Knight of the Garter, Commander of the British Empire, Bachelor of Science, MP.

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Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23127
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:07 am

Yeah, the reasons for Obama's ineffectiveness as a lawyer and statesman are probably unrelated to smoking one weed. One awkward joint later and he probably skidaddled back to his dorm for another 6 months to hide out reading books or whatever. Good thing he didn't join the army otherwise he might have been exposed as a weak leader early on.
Last edited by Gallia- on Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15074
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:19 am

If one makes a habit of criminality one would probs be better off consigned by the courts to hard labour for life tbh since clearly one is too dumb to obey rules followed by literally everybody else not a criminal.

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Ideal Britain
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1599
Founded: Mar 31, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Ideal Britain » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:45 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:If one makes a habit of criminality one would probs be better off consigned by the courts to hard labour for life tbh since clearly one is too dumb to obey rules followed by literally everybody else not a criminal.

Being dumb in that sense is possible to change,
Especially if one is given a job.
Last edited by Ideal Britain on Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
A nation that does represent my views set in Britain in the late 2040s.
Current year: 2048
Leader:
Air-Commodore Sir Alexander Khan, Knight of the Garter, Commander of the British Empire, Bachelor of Science, MP.

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33617
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:47 am

Ideal Britain wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:If one makes a habit of criminality one would probs be better off consigned by the courts to hard labour for life tbh since clearly one is too dumb to obey rules followed by literally everybody else not a criminal.

Being dumb in that sense is possible to change,
Especially if one is given a job.

Except the job that you seem to want to give them involves them having access to heavy weapons.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||


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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
Senator
 
Posts: 4471
Founded: Dec 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:50 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Ideal Britain wrote:Being dumb in that sense is possible to change,
Especially if one is given a job.

Except the job that you seem to want to give them involves them having access to heavy weapons.

True but people with misdemeanour convictions can own firearms in both the UK and USA and that’s for owning than rather than bearing them subject to strict military discipline.
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

Black Lives Matter!

User avatar
Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
Senator
 
Posts: 4471
Founded: Dec 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:51 am

Gallia- wrote:Yeah, the reasons for Obama's ineffectiveness as a lawyer and statesman are probably unrelated to smoking one weed. One awkward joint later and he probably skidaddled back to his dorm for another 6 months to hide out reading books or whatever. Good thing he didn't join the army otherwise he might have been exposed as a weak leader early on.

Ineffective lawyer?
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

Black Lives Matter!

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