Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[EsToVnIa]

So I unironically like the G36 now, and I decided to go full blown :GAY: and use the 4.6x36mm for them. For DMR/LSW should i issue the MG36 or keep using like the HK21 or smth like that

[Puzikas]

Wow
Wow
Blocked

HK21

[Korva]

So I unironically like the G36 now, and I decided to go full blown :GAY: and use the 4.6x36mm for them. For DMR/LSW should i issue the MG36 or keep using like the HK21 or smth like that

you're already uninvited from my pool party but now you are also banned from the bounce house

[Gallan Systems]

I'm just going to leave this here.

The 90s future is becoming reality. Commercial Thz through-wall radars are finally outside of laboratories after twenty years of wallowing.

All we need are OICWs integrated with FELIN and Thz ray gun for ultimate 1990s superwarrior.

[Taihei Tengoku]

So I unironically like the G36 now, and I decided to go full blown :GAY: and use the 4.6x36mm for them. For DMR/LSW should i issue the MG36 or keep using like the HK21 or smth like that

HK23 with the cassette magazine

[Gallan Systems]

So I unironically like the G36 now

Good jape you never hated it in the first place 8DDDD

[EsToVnIa]

Wow
Wow
Blocked

HK21

So I unironically like the G36 now, and I decided to go full blown :GAY: and use the 4.6x36mm for them. For DMR/LSW should i issue the MG36 or keep using like the HK21 or smth like that

you're already uninvited from my pool party but now you are also banned from the bounce house

D:

So I unironically like the G36 now, and I decided to go full blown :GAY: and use the 4.6x36mm for them. For DMR/LSW should i issue the MG36 or keep using like the HK21 or smth like that

HK23 with the cassette magazine

ok

@galla: i've always had a softspot for the XM8, which i guess is basically a G36??????

[Theodosiya]

So I unironically like the G36 now, and I decided to go full blown :GAY: and use the 4.6x36mm for them. For DMR/LSW should i issue the MG36 or keep using like the HK21 or smth like that

*Push button*
*Scud launched*

[Fordorsia]

I've always loved the G36 : )

[Purpelia]

If you ask me the G36 is just another generic assault rifle. The only thing really awesome about it is the sight setup.

Speaking of awesome though here is an odd question. Can any of you name any successful roller locked gas operated weapons? As in gas piston or DI + rollers.

On a related note, roller locked, gas operated DP lookalike in 7.5 Swiss with a K31 style rear mounted bipod that in my case would double as a foregrip for hip firing for maximum easy dispersion in WW2. Y/N?

On another related note. How out of place would it be to have some mechanism by which said machinegun could have its bipod switched out between a front and rear position quickly by the user for different roles? I know it's not exactly a super modern concept but like its a niche thing to just randomly go research.

[Crookfur]

If you ask me the G36 is just another generic assault rifle. The only thing really awesome about it is the sight setup.

Speaking of awesome though here is an odd question. Can any of you name any successful roller locked gas operated weapons? As in gas piston or DI + rollers.

On a related note, roller locked, gas operated DP lookalike in 7.5 Swiss with a K31 style rear mounted bipod that in my case would double as a foregrip for hip firing for maximum easy dispersion in WW2. Y/N?

On another related note. How out of place would it be to have some mechanism by which said machinegun could have its bipod switched out between a front and rear position quickly by the user for different roles? I know it's not exactly a super modern concept but like its a niche thing to just randomly go research.

Well the front and rear switchable bipod thing was done on the stg-57 and these days is super easy thanks to railz.

Nope no successful (as in at all memorable or fielded in any numbers) gas driven roller locked weapons. The gerat 03 (basically a G43 with roller rather than flapper locking) is about as close as you might find.

[Fordorsia]

If you ask me the G36 is just another generic assault rifle.

Because unconventional = good

[Purpelia]

Well the front and rear switchable bipod thing was done on the stg-57 and these days is super easy thanks to railz.

I am asking for back in WW2 though.

[Crookfur]

Well the front and rear switchable bipod thing was done on the stg-57 and these days is super easy thanks to railz.

I am asking for back in WW2 though.

There is nothing technically impossible about such a thing in the 30s/40s but the closest anyone had come IIRC was the farquar Hill multi position foregrip.

So it really depends if you are asking about possibility which is a yes or of the fashion of the times which is no.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Does anybody know or have pictures of how drill with the SIG 510 looked like with its... very large magazine?

[Gallan Systems]

very large magazine?

:3

penis jokes aside it's not much bigger than M16's magazine in...length :3

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Yes.. But still..

OK. Since you're the one who gave me the idea of spitzer Tokarevs, how do you use yours and in what weapons? Handguns y/n? And how do they relate to regular 7.62x25mm guns (if you use that at all) ?

My round is called the 7.5 Felix MSP. The MSP stands for Machine Assault (Sturm) Pistol, AKA submachine gun. That should really tell you all you need to know.

Basically the thing is not just a pointy 7.62TT. It's a pointy 7.62 TT P++²³. So it falls into a category of pistol rounds similar to say .357 SIG. And it really is best suited to being fired from something that can make use of that superior powder load like a submachinegun/PDW. Which is what it was designed for to begin with. Yes, you can use it in a handgun (and I do). It's not going to take your arm off. But it's definitively not something I would issue to say a regular police officer who has to concern him self with things such as over penetration.

So how do I employ it? It's used primarily from a bullpup PDW by my SWAT/Counter Terror units, my special forces, the personal security of my dukes and in other similar roles. In my military the same PDW sees a limited use for helicopter pilots primarily. And you will see it some times employed in SIG P226 sized handguns from time to time with people like aircraft pilots who who can't well fit a PDW in the cockpit but don't really care about concealing their handgun either.

Ok.

But just as a note, I haven't fired one but the .357 SIG is not supposed to be some uber-high-pressure, SMG cartridge. AFAIK it was designed to replicate .357 Mag performance in a semi automatic pistol package. I mean according to :wikipedia: it's supposed to be less snappy than a .357 Magnum or 10mm Auto and more in line with a .40 S&W, which isn't much (around 9mm Parabellum ballpark or a little higher).

The .357 Sig I'd wager shares some characteristics with the 7.62x25mm Tokarev both being bottlenecked relatively high pressure/velocity and low-ish projectile mass cartridges, but different from microcalibers like FN's 5.7mm or HK's 4.6mm IMO. The former are more a combination with "traditional" handgun cartridges whereas the microcalibers go full retard and focus solely on armor penetration making for relatively lousy performance against unprotected targets (and, obviously, overpenetration probably). Otherwise everyone would be using them.

Would you think it would be practical to have both 7.62x25mm Tok "standard" and something akin to your 7.5 MSP in the same gun by just a mag/barrel swap? (and probably a recoil spring if recoil operated)?

[Purpelia]

Ok.

But just as a note, I haven't fired one but the .357 SIG is not supposed to be some uber-high-pressure, SMG cartridge. AFAIK it was designed to replicate .357 Mag performance in a semi automatic pistol package. I mean according to :wikipedia: it's supposed to be less snappy than a .357 Magnum or 10mm Auto and more in line with a .40 S&W, which isn't much (around 9mm Parabellum ballpark or a little higher).

My bad than. Basically I just went and grasped for the largest practical handgun round I could google up in 5 minutes. And apparently all I did was make a fool of my self.


Like, basically if you want to know how I personally feel this thing would feel (and mind you the closest thing I have ever come to a handgun is a water pistol so....) I basically think of what ever Dirty Harry shoots. The "most powerful handgun in the world" line basically. Like this is something that can work out of a handgun but it takes a "real man" to do it.

The .357 Sig I'd wager shares some characteristics with the 7.62x25mm Tokarev both being bottlenecked relatively high pressure/velocity and low-ish projectile mass cartridges, but different from microcalibers like FN's 5.7mm or HK's 4.6mm IMO. The former are more a combination with "traditional" handgun cartridges whereas the microcalibers go full retard and focus solely on armor penetration making for relatively lousy performance against unprotected targets (and, obviously, overpenetration probably). Otherwise everyone would be using them.

Which is why I went down the middle. Basically you can think of my design as the answer to "How do we get as close as possible to an Assault Rifle using 7.62 TT without actually making the case larger?"

IIRC, the way I designed this thing is that I basically went on the NSDraftroom (or maybe one of the early IDT threats???) and I asked them for the hottest possible load of 7.62 TT that is still practical*. I than took that load and added a pointy bullet. So like it's technically within the realms of an overbuilt steel cased 7.62 TT. But the two are not comparable.


* As in not some sort of handloaded three shots and your barrel is burnt out thing.

Would you think it would be practical to have both 7.62x25mm Tok "standard" and something akin to your 7.5 MSP in the same gun by just a mag/barrel swap? (and probably a recoil spring if recoil operated)?

I assume that if nothing else the different bore diameter (mine is 7.77mm so as to be based off 7.5 Swiss as opposed to 7.62 TT which has 7.87mm as per 7.62x54R) would make that a big problem. And if that does not do it the difference in pressure would probably mean that something made to cycle one would either not have enough or have way too much recoil in the system firing the other.

[Kazarogkai]

Recoil vs gas operated LMG

From my various perusing and reading up on things related towards these matters I want to know the pros and cons between the two when it relates to this matter. From what I have read the German MG-34/42 was recoil operated and seems to have been pretty effective in it's role on the otherhand the American BAR and Czech ZB vz. 26 and kids were Gas Operated. From this I presume that Recoil is probably superior if you want a suppressive focused LMG with a high ROF; While Gas are better if you want something more offensive/accuracy focused. I'm just grasping at straws here so could anyone help in better informing me on the matter?

[New Dutch Colonies]

So I unironically like the G36 now, and I decided to go full blown :GAY: and use the 4.6x36mm for them. For DMR/LSW should i issue the MG36 or keep using like the HK21 or smth like that

Relevant

[Crookfur]

Recoil vs gas operated LMG

From my various perusing and reading up on things related towards these matters I want to know the pros and cons between the two when it relates to this matter. From what I have read the German MG-34/42 was recoil operated and seems to have been pretty effective in it's role on the otherhand the American BAR and Czech ZB vz. 26 and kids were Gas Operated. From this I presume that Recoil is probably superior if you want a suppressive focused LMG with a high ROF; While Gas are better if you want something more offensive/accuracy focused. I'm just grasping at straws here so could anyone help in better informing me on the matter?

Whilest its true that a short-recoil operation in a rifle calibre gun will tend to a higher rate of fire, greater dispersion and a bit more weight than a gas-operated mechanism (more stuff moving a slightly shorter distance and the cycle starting slightly faster) the actual end functioning of the gun likely depends on other factors in the overall design.

ultimate answer is pretty much what everyone (not on on the MG42/MG gravy train) ended up with post ww2: a belt fed gas operated gun. However you likely just end up going with what people decide to make available and meets what ever selection crieria you might have and you just adapt to use what you can get.

[Puzikas]

Recoil vs gas operated LMG

From my various perusing and reading up on things related towards these matters I want to know the pros and cons between the two when it relates to this matter. From what I have read the German MG-34/42 was recoil operated and seems to have been pretty effective in it's role on the otherhand the American BAR and Czech ZB vz. 26 and kids were Gas Operated. From this I presume that Recoil is probably superior if you want a suppressive focused LMG with a high ROF; While Gas are better if you want something more offensive/accuracy focused. I'm just grasping at straws here so could anyone help in better informing me on the matter?

You're really not even grasping at straws here

It's more like grasping at hairs

[Korva]

which ones

⸮◔ᨎ◔?

[Neo Balka]

Welp.

i just saw someone on NSG advocate for a field brothel.

Purp would be proud.

and i am no longer surprised by anything.

[Purpelia]

Welp.

i just saw someone on NSG advocate for a field brothel.

Purp would be proud.

and i am no longer surprised by anything.

You do realize that military brothels, field or base are nothing new and have existed since time immemorial? Like the French used them at least up until the end of their involvement in Vietnam.