Your Nation's Air Force Mark III: Best Korea Edition

[Pavelania]

Speaking of bad ideas

Added two extra waist guns just because. Takes the total up to 11 twin 15mm turrets and a 30mm ventral gun. Zero idea what it's for but taking orders now pls buy.
(Image)

What did you use for drawing/designing that?

[Fordorsia]

Speaking of bad ideas

Added two extra waist guns just because. Takes the total up to 11 twin 15mm turrets and a 30mm ventral gun. Zero idea what it's for but taking orders now pls buy.
(Image)

What did you use for drawing/designing that?

Sketchup

[Pavelania]

What did you use for drawing/designing that?

Sketchup

Ok thanks I got to check sketchup out.

[Fordorsia]

Sketchup

Ok thanks I got to check sketchup out.

You'll grow up to be just like me : )

[Pavelania]

What do you guys think is a better COD (Carrier On-board Delivery) Aircraft?

CVM-22B Osprey

Clean sheet twin turboprop design

Clean sheet twin turbofan design (similar layout as the C-3 Viking COD variant)

[The Akasha Colony]

For an attack helicopter, would it be better to use a mast-mounted MMW radar like Apache or a mast-mounted TV/IR sight like Tiger? Or would a massive combined sensor be useful?

I realize this partly comes down to what types of seekers the helicopter is designed to be supporting (IR like PARS 3 LR versus MMW like the newer Hellfires), but both types are available for use so it would need both anyway.

Whatever didn't end up on the mast would go either above the cockpit ahead of the rotors, like the Kawasaki OH-1 and non-mast equipped Tigers, or on the nose like Apache. But probably the former to keep the nose clear for the gun and forward MAWS units.

[Gallia-]

Radar with FLIR above the cockpit.

[United Earthlings]

That's the plan as of now. The thing I'm an island nation located a decent distance away from the guy myself and the military alliance I'm a member off are planning to go to war with. In between myself, say nation A, and the enemy, nation C, is another island nation C allied with me. So I can launch my intercontinental bombers from my mainland and have refueling aircraft based in friendly nation C to let me fly a strike mission from my nation to nation C. On the other hand nation C can;t really attack me with planes since he would have to overfly nation C (which is hostile to him) and doesn't have any locations between his nation and mine to base refueling aircraft in.

Being an island nation is indeed nice, gives you more strategic options to play with. You went with the path of long range bombers; I’ve been going down a different path. Past twenty plus years, my nation’s ballistic missile programs have seen a huge influx of cash for both R&D and production models, some of those models carrying conventional payloads to intercontinental distances.

I'm not sure semi-active laser guidance is practical for SAMs or AAMs (no SAM or AAM besides starstreak has ever used it AFAIK)s ince lasers need to be mechanically steered and have a tiny beamwidth meaning keeping a lock on an aggressively maneuvering aircraft could be extremely difficult. With a laser weapon you only need a dwell time of a few seconds to deal damage but with a missile at BVR ranges it could be minutes between missile launch and missile impact meaning you need to keep the laser on target for that amount of time for the missile to successfully intercept the target. With an electronically steered radar this isn't very difficult, with a laser it could be challenging, especially in adverse weather conditions where unlike X band radars IR lasers suffer from atmospheric attenuation.

Few things, RL diverge long ago within the NS world I exist, so they leaves various design paths open for exploration, second, the laser guidance would probably, definitely be limited to SAMs only {where aggressively maneuvering aircraft isn’t a problem when targeting hypersonic bombers} and third by my calculation this is at a minimum set thirty years into the future, which since the PMT world doesn’t exist to me, it falls squarely within the FT realm and therefore more open to creative licensees.

Can you definitively say what missiles {all types} will look like in thirty years?

They're 'peer competitors" because they have huge armies that are much bugger than mine. They choose ICly to use MT stuff while I use a mix of strict MT and more elaborate PMT stuff. We haven't decided on a timescale but 2027 and 2037 have been proposed, as to get an idea of what tech is considered acceptable and not. Certain PMT tech that I like to make very heavy usage of, specifically railguns, solid-state lasers, and hypersonic airbreathers, exists already in the MT world as functional prototypes, I'm going with the assumption that in 10/20 years the tech will be mature enough that it can fielded as an operational system. To make up for the tech advantage my numbers are lower though, since I'm also making the assumption that said systems will have higher procurement costs (scaled for inflation) compared present day alternatives.

Well, if you have a bug problem, you better get Johnny Rico to nuke them from orbit, it’s the only to be sure don’t you know. Afterwards, you can then send in the mobile infantry lead by Ripley.

Sorry, on a more serious note. A peer competitor is determined more than just by army size, there’s also technological, population {demographics}, economic, etc…Depending on how your nation’s statistics line up with your rivals will determine what scale they fall on, however from the sound of it your nation surpasses them both technologically and economically, so on the national power scale your ahead at a Great Power level while your rivals are Regional to Middle Powers.

20 years minimum for fielding as a operational system, 30 years more likely for the railguns and hypersonic airbreathers. Solid-state lasers may be more in line with your assumption timeline.

To me the 2037 timeline would be the more realistic of the two. If there’s one universal truth now, it’s that any current military project will be over budget and behind schedule.

[Austrasien]

Radar with FLIR above the cockpit.

^

[The Akasha Colony]

Radar with FLIR above the cockpit.

Radar with FLIR above the cockpit.

^

Radar on the mast and FLIR above the cockpit, or both above the cockpit?

Trying to draw a fenestron is making me tear my hair out so I guess my next question is whether a low-observable arrangement like RAH-66 is as desirable in an actual attack helicopter rather than an ostensible reconnaissance helicopter.

The other idea I've been sort of entertaining is using the McDonnell Douglas/Bell LHX as a basis, if only because its NOTAR arrangement eliminates the need to draw a fenestron while also not reverting to a more exposed conventional tail rotor. That many curves would be a pain but it seems like less of a problem than getting the fenestron to a point that I'd be satisfied with. But it doesn't seem to be as focused on LO performance as Comanche and there are lots of very slightly different concepts floating around.

The last option is to use the assets I already drew for the compound helicopter like the X-49, but that would increase the frontal profile, especially with a large-diameter tail rotor.

[Austrasien]

LO can't hurt, but I can't name a whole lot of incidents where helicopters were shot down by radar guided missiles. The US lost no helicopters to radar guided weapons in Iraq or Afghanistan between 2001 and 2009 and 75% of losses occurred during daylight or twilight. The priorities should be acoustic signature, because this is probably the first indicator of a helicopters presence in most cases, and IR signature. Visual signature would be nice to reduce too but there are no non-exotic technologies that do much about that. The RCS reduction applied to the RAH-66 was probably not worth the cost.

Edit: Radar on mast, flir above cockpit.

In the off chance my attack helicopter gets out of my head the radar goes in the nose though. Or maybe a rotor blade, depending on how silly I feel. Above the rotor is where the self-protection radar aka APS will live.

[Gallan Systems]

Edit: Radar on mast, flir above cockpit.

Yeah, this is what I meant.

In the off chance my attack helicopter gets out of my head the radar goes in the nose though. Or maybe a rotor blade, depending on how silly I feel. Above the rotor is where the self-protection radar aka APS will live.

Questions.

In the nose like Sea Apache or like Ka-52? That seems a poor placement for an attack radar for ground use.
Just a singular rotor blade? Why not all of them?
What band would that be, too? Could you make a mmW antenna that fits in a rotor blade, or would it be some other band? The only leading edge radars I'm aware of are lower frequency like L-band.
Why not have the self protection radar on the belly or something? That seems to be the best place for MPADS detection? Or is this defending against high angle attacks like radar guided missiles?

The RCS reduction applied to the RAH-66 was probably not worth the cost.

But the angles made him cute. >:

Also low frontal profile <3

[Austrasien]

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp. ... er=5268720

I don't see why you could not have more than one. The scan rate is so high I don't think it would be needed though.

[Gallan Systems]

I wasn't questioning if it were possible, I was just wondering why it would be asymmetric TBF. Cost, maybe?

Bell's version had one for each wing, giving 360 degree performance and some other benefits (a high scan rate was one of the reasons). They were looking at Ku band though. I suppose that's good enough for navigation and terrain pathing but not so hot for actual targeting (unless LOAL I guess)? OTOH I suppose making that a 94 Ghz antenna rather than a Ku-band would be not too much a stretch? There's wackier stuff to come out of the Disco Age I suppose, like the VADS dual band W/Ku fire control radar.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/653 ... cience.pdf

[Austrasien]

A single antenna will cover 360 degrees per sweep and is scanning at something like 6-7 hertz. Bell investigated both leading and trailing edge antennas, but it would not be necessary to use both at once.

[Gallan Systems]

Oh I see it now.

RIP mega antennae array.

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=5268720

I don't see why you could not have more than one. The scan rate is so high I don't think it would be needed though.

Wouldn't that be counterproductive if you want a radar VLO heli? For radar VLO you want the rotor blades to be made of a radar transparent material like a fiber reinforced glass resin, putting radars in them obviously means you have an antenna which is not radar transparent which thus provides a large doppler return for threat emitters. Now if you don't care about radar VLO this doesn't matter but it's something to consider if you want a comanche 2.0. IMO although IR stealth is probably more important for avoding MANPADS radar guided AAA and radar guided SHORADS are big threats to helos that being radar VLO could help counter.

[Pavelania]

Old recon jet based on our Generation 1 Fisker air frame. Currently retired and not in use with any nation as of 2017. (Kesteau Air Force was the last operator which retired the jet in 1975)

[Gig em Aggies]

What is the feasibility of systems such as the XT908 or EDI "Extreme Deep Invader" within the airforce?

[Gallan Systems]

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=5268720

I don't see why you could not have more than one. The scan rate is so high I don't think it would be needed though.

Wouldn't that be counterproductive if you want a radar VLO heli?

Reconsider priorities.

[New Vihenia]

What is the feasibility of systems such as the XT908 or EDI "Extreme Deep Invader" within the airforce?

We're not there yet for AI technology. So it's unfeasible for it.
----------

Anyway.. i doodle myself a CAS aircraft :3

I call her Claudia Blitzvogel

[Pavelania]

What is the feasibility of systems such as the XT908 or EDI "Extreme Deep Invader" within the airforce?

We're not there yet for AI technology. So it's unfeasible for it.
----------

Anyway.. i doodle myself a CAS aircraft :3

I call her Claudia Blitzvogel

Great design! Never seen a configuration for a CAS aircraft like this before. I'm gonna assume the engines are high above the fuselage to prevent FOD getting into the engines and damaging them. Looks pretty rugged as well. Also seems to be a cannon under the belly as well. Great design!

[The Akasha Colony]

With this talk of rotor blade-mounted antennas, would there be any merit to the concept of an end-fire antenna located in the hub fairing?

Lots of the concept designs for LHX and the like had hub fairings of some sort covering the rotor hub itself and some of them were relatively large. It wouldn't provide anywhere near the surface area of a rotor blade antenna, but depending on size it might still provide more space than a mast pod while also providing 360 coverage like the rotor blade.



Also, would there be any utility in adapting some of the optical recognition/rangefinding technologies used in self-driving vehicles to a collision-avoidance system for helicopters?

The loss figures in the study Kyiv posted indicated that the vast majority of losses were to mishaps and mechanical issues and one of the largest factors was accidental collisions or damaging impacts with local terrain or obstacles. A better situational awareness system was identified as desirable and while low-power radars spaced around the aircraft are probably the most straightforward solution (and AFAIK the most common solution for consumer collision alert systems), they might not be desirable for a combat helicopter wanting to control its emissions. Optical and other passive ranging systems though have made strides as of late but I'm not sure how suitable they'd be, especially against small hazards like wires/cables that would be very difficult to spot (and might even be problematic for radar detection). Perhaps a laser system would be a compromise between performance, cost, and detectability, although it would have a limited field of view.

The goal would be to create a system that would alert the pilot if he is approaching too close to an obstacle, especially one outside of his normal field of view. And possibly even include an auto-GCAS feature to react immediately in the event the pilot doesn't react in time.

[Austrasien]

Yes. LIDAR has been used successfully for obstacle, especially powerline, detection.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_Laser_Radar
https://www.iosb.fraunhofer.de/servlet/is/20849/

There used to be a helicopter self defense radar in the Rosoboronexport catalog. But I don't remember much about it. It looked like it was intended to sit on top of the mast though, with four UHF phased arrays.

[The Akasha Colony]

Yes. LIDAR has been used successfully for obstacle, especially powerline, detection.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_Laser_Radar
https://www.iosb.fraunhofer.de/servlet/is/20849/

The second link seems to basically describe how I was imagining it to work, but also with some coverage to the rear and sides for helicopters landing or operating in tight spaces, like a backup collision sensor in a car.

Would the sensors have to be as large as the Hellas installation? I haven't drawn anything yet, but obviously the larger they are the harder they are to fit in various places.

There used to be a helicopter self defense radar in the Rosoboronexport catalog. But I don't remember much about it. It looked like it was intended to sit on top of the mast though, with four UHF phased arrays.

End-fire self-defense radar in the hub with attack radar in the rotor blades for extra kek? Or would the scan rate for the self-defense radar be too low compared to four arrays with constant full 360 coverage?

What was the self defense radar intended to do? Just serve as a larger radar MAWS against incoming SAMs, to help cue countermeasures?

EDIT: And lastly have there been any problems with NOTAR arrangements that would have precluded them from combat use? McDD and Bell thought it was mature enough to use in their LHX design but AFAIK it never went farther than basic simulator flights.