Your Nation's Warships, Batch 3

[The Selkie]

What is this thing?!
>26 kts flank
>no ASW sensors
>third rate radar
>glorified CIWS missile for air defence
>no SVTT
>watercannons
>100 km range VULCANO for land attack
>7,200 tons
Is it designed to chase Somali pirates or to beach itself on Gotland a la Yamato?

The epitome of German stupidity. They should have just disbanded their armed forces and become a province of Russia or whatever they feel like being the submissive to.

The US, with Merkel on the helm and to every President before Trump - especially Bush. Seeing the personal history of the Zone-Girl, Russia would make more sense, though.
But while you are correct, that this is a stupid vessel incapable of some missions, it is capable of others - and constructed for others, for a different purpose in mind, to quote Naval Technology Com (things in brackets are notes of mine):

The concept of the replacement frigates [a replacement for the Bremen-class] was originally as a multi-role combatant but by 2005, the requirement for the F125 was based on a capability to counter asymmetric threats and perform stabilisation operations with lethal and non-lethal intervention [something, that usually does not include sub-hunting]. The German Navy announced that the F125 would be armed with land attack systems and air warfare point-defence equipment but would not be equipped with sonar.

Or, as the German Navy itself says on their internet presence:

Die Schiffe [F125] wurden speziell für die heutigen und zukünftigen Einsatzszenarien der Deutschen Marine entwickelt. Hauptaugenmerk liegt dabei auf Konfliktverhütung, Krisenbewältigung sowie auf Eingreif- und Stabilisierungsoperationen.

I even stumbled across an article on Defense Industry Daily, where they were compared in role and purpose to, for example, the Sigmas, the Visbys and the LCS.
So, in essence, yes, F125 has been planned and constructed after the Cold War to chase Somali Pirates (or pirates in general) away, because that is what the German Navy thinks it will do in the foreseeable future. And with the politics and society in Germany as they are, that will exactly be, what we will be doing. Nothing more, nothing less.

[The Greater Aryan Race]

I've probably asked this question before but given the operational limits of small diesel-electric submarines such as the Gotland-class and the Type 212, how might one best employ these vessels? I've considered using them in a sort of solitary naval interdiction/interceptor-esque role, with the Type 212 venturing out of port to conduct occasional patrols and intercept enemy merchant shipping or warships before quickly returning to base.

[Connori Pilgrims]

I've probably asked this question before but given the operational limits of small diesel-electric submarines such as the Gotland-class and the Type 212, how might one best employ these vessels? I've considered using them in a sort of solitary naval interdiction/interceptor-esque role, with the Type 212 venturing out of port to conduct occasional patrols and intercept enemy merchant shipping or warships before quickly returning to base.

The intended role of most of today's modern diesel-electric submarines is to silently transit to an area to be defended or a maritime chokepoint to be strangled, sit/crawl around there and wait for any targets of opportunity to almost basically run over them before they're to be torpedoed. Sort of like large-area-of-reach (as large as the reach of their torpedoes or any anti-ship missiles they have) reusable mines.

This kind of precludes using them as "interceptors"; they simply don't have the speed to do so. They can't "quickly" return to base too, they don't have the speed or the endurance to run at high speeds (the Barbel-class, the fastest mass-production combat diesel submarines AFAIK, have an endurance of about 90 minutes running at top speed, and I'm not sure that diesel subs today can do so much better).

[Allanea]

Is it feasible to launch a torpedo or an ASROC-type contraption from a shore installation or a truck, have it flop in the water and then move on its target?

[New Chilokver]

Is it feasible to launch a torpedo or an ASROC-type contraption from a shore installation or a truck, have it flop in the water and then move on its target?

http://navyrecognition.com/index.php/ne ... -2014.html

[The Akasha Colony]

Is it feasible to launch a torpedo or an ASROC-type contraption from a shore installation or a truck, have it flop in the water and then move on its target?

It's physically possible to launch an ASROC from a truck, yes.

It would obviously need some kind of off-board platform to localize the target though since the torpedo's own seeker has limited sensitivity and has to be dropped relatively close to the target to achieve a good lock. This platform being either a sea-floor sonar network or an ASW helicopter or fixed-wing MPA, although the latter two can carry and launch their own torpedoes anyway which is presumably by land-based systems are not rare at best.

[Allanea]

Would it be better to just store the torpedoes in undersea canisters like CAPTOR?

[Theodosiya]

*screams, curse and choke The Selkie for moar Leopard 2RI (And possibly, license for 2A7), Type 214, HK 416/7, F123 and F122*

Any idea how to enhance the Ivers?

[Laritaia]

define "enhance"

[New Chilokver]

buy sm-2s

[The Greater Aryan Race]

The intended role of most of today's modern diesel-electric submarines is to silently transit to an area to be defended or a maritime chokepoint to be strangled, sit/crawl around there and wait for any targets of opportunity to almost basically run over them before they're to be torpedoed. Sort of like large-area-of-reach (as large as the reach of their torpedoes or any anti-ship missiles they have) reusable mines.

This kind of precludes using them as "interceptors"; they simply don't have the speed to do so. They can't "quickly" return to base too, they don't have the speed or the endurance to run at high speeds (the Barbel-class, the fastest mass-production combat diesel submarines AFAIK, have an endurance of about 90 minutes running at top speed, and I'm not sure that diesel subs today can do so much better).

Ah I see, many thanks.

One more thing, I noticed that there appears to be some sort of differentiation between heavyweight and lightweight torpedoes which determines the weapons platform from which they may be fired (I.e. The Mark 48 torpedo seems to only be capable of being launched from submarines but not surface ships). What are the reasons for this categorisation?

[Theodosiya]

define "enhance"

Better radar, more VLS, compatibility with Onyx(?) or French missiles (MM40 Exocet B-III), land attack missile...

[Laritaia]

define "enhance"

Better radar, more VLS, compatibility with Onyx(?) or French missiles (MM40 Exocet B-III), land attack missile...

"better radar" it has Smart-L one of the best volume search radars afloat

56 VLS cells is a little on the low side and could probably be bumped up to 64 by swapping the Mk 56 for more mk41

onyx is missive and will never fit, you basically have to build the ship from the ground up to accommodate it, the Harpoon launchers can easily be swapped for Exocet and Tomahawk will fit in the Mk 41 VLS

[Theodosiya]

Ok, just wanna make sure the one that probably AL get will be compatible with supply chain.

[Laritaia]

Ok, just wanna make sure the one that probably AL get will be compatible with supply chain.

?

[Theodosiya]

Heard that there are plan to procure some Iver Huitfeldt to replace Van Speijks/Ahmad Yani class.

[Connori Pilgrims]

Ah I see, many thanks.

One more thing, I noticed that there appears to be some sort of differentiation between heavyweight and lightweight torpedoes which determines the weapons platform from which they may be fired (I.e. The Mark 48 torpedo seems to only be capable of being launched from submarines but not surface ships). What are the reasons for this categorisation?

Heavyweight torpedoes are, as the name spells out, very large things; usually 533mm (21") in diametre (and around 6-7m long) for most countries nowadays, although the French persisted with 550mm (21.6") up to the Daphne class of the 1960s and the Russians also have 650mm (25.6") torpedoes of >9m length to this day. They are mainly carried by submarines as this is their primary armament.

Some Russian and Italian/French-built surface ships carry 21" torpedo tubes which could in theory use any of the 21" torpedoes in their respective arsenals although in practice they will either just carry ASW torpedoes or in Russia's case their equivalent of ASROC, the RPK-2/6 533mm missile. Nowadays surface ships don't need such large torpedoes since they're often excess weight for little practical gain (and depending on the sensitivity of a torpedo could even be a hazard), if they're gonna kill ships, use missiles or even guns. If you're gonna kill submarines, use ASROCs, helicopters, or lighter torpedoes (see below)

Lightweight torpedoes are, also as spelled out, comparatively tiny things. NATO standardized on 324mm (12.75") diametre, and these are short-range ASW torpedoes for self-defence as well as warheads for ASROCs. The Russian equivalent was 400mm (15.7") and was often used either as a warhead on the RPK-7 650mm ASROC or as self-defence secondary armament for older Soviet submarines.

[Theodosiya]

Random question, could any 533mm torps fits on any 533mm torps launcher?

Since most Sub torpedoes are around 533mm, be they German, UK, USA or even USSR.

[Laritaia]

Random question, could any 533mm torps fits on any 533mm torps launcher?

Since most Sub torpedoes are around 533mm, be they German, UK, USA or even USSR.

fit, yes

capable of being fired from, no

[Theodosiya]

Then, is it possible to make launcher that is compatible to most torps in 533mm range?

[Laritaia]

Then, is it possible to make launcher that is compatible to most torps in 533mm range?

Theoretically yes

the question is why

[The Corparation]

.... and Tomahawk will fit in the Mk 41 VLS

That's not necessarily true. Mk 41 VLS comes in different heights. Tomahawks will only fit into the tallest "strike" version of the launcher. Most of the Mk 41s on Non-US ships are either the self defense or tactical version of the Mk 41 which are unable to fit the Tomahawk.

[Laritaia]

.... and Tomahawk will fit in the Mk 41 VLS

That's not necessarily true. Mk 41 VLS comes in different heights. Tomahawks will only fit into the tallest "strike" version of the launcher. Most of the Mk 41s on Non-US ships are either the self defense or tactical version of the Mk 41 which are unable to fit the Tomahawk.

well yes this would be true if not for the fact that the Ivar is intended to be able to fire both SM-3/6 as well as Tomahawks and has the full length Mk41.

they just don't have the money for the missiles.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Random question, could any 533mm torps fits on any 533mm torps launcher?

Since most Sub torpedoes are around 533mm, be they German, UK, USA or even USSR.

fit, yes

capable of being fired from, no

I do recall reading somewhere that most Soviet 533mm torpedoes would have been too long to fire from NATO 533mm torpedo tubes - e.g., Mark 48 is 5.790 meters long, compared to 7.9 meters on USET-80, TEST-68, and TEST-71. IDK how deep NATO torpedo tubes actually were, though, and I can't track down the original source.

This part though

the question is why

is right on point.

[Theodosiya]

Well, in IC case, still have some Kilo subs running along with few 214s and soon to enter "Germanized" double hull sub based on Amur 1650.

OOC, well, there are plans, and even sub pen built, for new built 636.6 Varshavyankas, to serve alongside Improved Changbogo, the old 209 duo and probably TKMS-Golcuk 214s. For TNI AL.