NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #4

[Consolidate Nations Alliance]

As, so basically the Bradley or Stryker outfitted with TOW/other anti-tank missiles? Fair enough. Thank you for that

Honestly I'd use a M113.

I already use the M113. It's in my post above with the rest of my vehicles listed. The M113 Bushmaster APC. So just convert some of the to launch anti-tank missiles?

[Purpelia]

Honestly I'd use a M113.

I already use the M113. It's in my post above with the rest of my vehicles listed. The M113 Bushmaster APC. So just convert some of the to launch anti-tank missiles?

Yes. If you already have them it would be cheap and easy. And nothing quite beats a rocket-gavin.

Bradley's already fitted with TOW or at least provision, and I'm pretty sure Stryker has provision already.

Speaking of that I have been contemplating if I could adapt a Spike to be barrel fired from a BMP-3. From what I understand the diffrent variants also have different diameters. But I can't find any solid data on it or if I could shrink one down to 100mm. I basically want a fire and forget replacement for the 9M117.

[Consolidate Nations Alliance]

I already use the M113. It's in my post above with the rest of my vehicles listed. The M113 Bushmaster APC. So just convert some of the to launch anti-tank missiles?

Yes. If you already have them it would be cheap and easy. And nothing quite beats a rocket-gavin.

Bradley's already fitted with TOW or at least provision, and I'm pretty sure Stryker has provision already.

Speaking of that I have been contemplating if I could adapt a Spike to be barrel fired from a BMP-3. From what I understand the diffrent variants also have different diameters. But I can't find any solid data on it or if I could shrink one down to 100mm.

Fair enough. So get the Strykers or just purpose some of my M113s to launch AT missiles, put my modified K2s back into my MBT battalion.

Any other advice on the rest of my army?

[Purpelia]

Fair enough. So get the Strykers or just purpose some of my M113s to launch AT missiles, put my modified K2s back into my MBT battalion.

Any other advice on the rest of my army?

Don't use multiple types of tanks in the same unit. It complicates logistics.

[Consolidate Nations Alliance]

Fair enough. So get the Strykers or just purpose some of my M113s to launch AT missiles, put my modified K2s back into my MBT battalion.

Any other advice on the rest of my army?

Don't use multiple types of tanks in the same unit. It complicates logistics.

So...separate my M113s, Bushmaster PMVs and Coyote TSVs into separate units? and possibly my artillery and anti-air?

[The United Remnants of America]

Completely unrelated quesiton. I was recently told that it's highly frowned upon on the trading forums if a nation sells real-world stylized items. Like if a nation had a storefront with SCAR rifles, SAWS, etc and had F-15s, Bradleys and Abrams etc, for sell or a really close equivalent of said items. Is this a fact.

Yes. As a rule on NS anyone can manufacture anything that exists IRL. All modern tech is basically open source to us. So if you were to sell F-15s and SCARs you would in essence be conning people into buying stuff they already can get for free.

Ahh. Well, then.. I guess it sucks that people don't realize that and only make small technicals and buy more advanced equipment from me then, huh? And I have other stuff and other modifications. But most of it is nestled firmly into experimental or the hopes and dreams of American military. Like stealth armor, or my nice drones...

[The United Remnants of America]

Don't use multiple types of tanks in the same unit. It complicates logistics.

So...separate my M113s, Bushmaster PMVs and Coyote TSVs into separate units? and possibly my artillery and anti-air?

Just remember that no matter the platform, M113, Brad, or Stryker, all three will go down with one hit from any respectable tank made in the last 40 years. So, use them in ambushes or keep a line ofMBTs between them and an enemy armor unit. You oculd even add mech. inf. to the APC and load them up with AT launchers for extra support. Just saying.

Yes, different types are usually separated at the company level. Sometimes at the battalion level. If you try to have one of each in a platoon or a platoon of each in a company, shit gets bad really quick. Though there are exceptions. Sometimes a platoon of tanks in a company is replaced by a platoon of APCs/Mechanized infantry, turning the armor company into a task group. but that's more of an exception than a rule.

Just remember the rule KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid.

[Crookfur]

So, basically I am thinking I might need a new tank to fill the slot of tank destroyer in my armoured and infantry support battalion. Right now I have several modified K-2 Black Panthers acting as tank destroyers, but I'm wondering if that's viable, or if I should find something else to use as a tank destroyer, or just scrap that concept all together.

I know I posted up my entire military in the last one, but I'll just do my army this time, and separate them into their battalions. Any tips/suggestions about my army in general will be good.

Sword Battalion (Main Battle Tanks)
30 x K-2 Black Panther MBTs

Shield Battalion (Armoured and infantry support division)
30 x K-2-TD Black Panther Tak Destroyers
430 x Bushmaster M113 APCs (130 in reserves and 50 re-purposed to be converted into Command, Control and Communication (CCC) APCs)
840 x Bushmaster PMVs
30 x Coyote TSVs

Archer Battalion (Artillery and anti-air division)
110 x L118/L119 105 mm Hamel Guns
120 x M2A2 105 mm Howitzer
35 x M198 155 mm Howitzer
35 x M777A2 155 mm Howitzer
35 x RBS-70 surface to air missile systems


Note: I have no troop numbers as I'm note sure how much of my 59,631 total personnel would go to each squad and how much would be left for riflemen/foot soldiers

You seem to have crammed a lot of vehicles into you battalions and others are small.

A typical tank/armoured battalion would have in the region of 44 to 58 MBts supported by some light cavalry/ recce vehciles. As it stands I would just have a single armoured battlaion/regiment that has all your K2s (with none of them modified)

For the infantry you could with your current vehciles feild 2 mechanised/armoured infantry battalions in your M113s plus another 4 or 5 in the bushmasters with the Coyotes likely beign assigned as the recce element of the M113 mounted battalions.


Artillery wise it looks like you can feild a regiment of 32x 155mm guns to support each M113 battalion plus a regiment of 105mm guns to support each bushmaster battalion. This is a LOT of artillery msot ifnatry units have a single artillery regiment to cover a whole brigade (3-4 infantry battalions).

[Elan Valleys]

I have found the solution to my P40 upgrade: The Berezin B20.

4 of them are the same weight as the 6 .50s, and I should manage 200 rpg.Which means nearly as many rounds per gun as the plane originally had!

Ooh yeah.

(My rpg fixation can be attributed to the following quote from Tony Williams' website: 'estimates for an average pilot's hit rate varying between two and five percent')

[Consolidate Nations Alliance]

So, basically I am thinking I might need a new tank to fill the slot of tank destroyer in my armoured and infantry support battalion. Right now I have several modified K-2 Black Panthers acting as tank destroyers, but I'm wondering if that's viable, or if I should find something else to use as a tank destroyer, or just scrap that concept all together.

I know I posted up my entire military in the last one, but I'll just do my army this time, and separate them into their battalions. Any tips/suggestions about my army in general will be good.

Sword Battalion (Main Battle Tanks)
30 x K-2 Black Panther MBTs

Shield Battalion (Armoured and infantry support division)
30 x K-2-TD Black Panther Tak Destroyers
430 x Bushmaster M113 APCs (130 in reserves and 50 re-purposed to be converted into Command, Control and Communication (CCC) APCs)
840 x Bushmaster PMVs
30 x Coyote TSVs

Archer Battalion (Artillery and anti-air division)
110 x L118/L119 105 mm Hamel Guns
120 x M2A2 105 mm Howitzer
35 x M198 155 mm Howitzer
35 x M777A2 155 mm Howitzer
35 x RBS-70 surface to air missile systems


Note: I have no troop numbers as I'm note sure how much of my 59,631 total personnel would go to each squad and how much would be left for riflemen/foot soldiers

You seem to have crammed a lot of vehicles into you battalions and others are small.

A typical tank/armoured battalion would have in the region of 44 to 58 MBts supported by some light cavalry/ recce vehciles. As it stands I would just have a single armoured battlaion/regiment that has all your K2s (with none of them modified)

For the infantry you could with your current vehciles feild 2 mechanised/armoured infantry battalions in your M113s plus another 4 or 5 in the bushmasters with the Coyotes likely beign assigned as the recce element of the M113 mounted battalions.


Artillery wise it looks like you can feild a regiment of 32x 155mm guns to support each M113 battalion plus a regiment of 105mm guns to support each bushmaster battalion. This is a LOT of artillery msot ifnatry units have a single artillery regiment to cover a whole brigade (3-4 infantry battalions).

So, bring both groups of 105mm guns to about 35, and put my K2s back to 60.

So total available troops (not counting drivers and mechanics and other support staff, so just riflemen) would be about....59,000 or so? 631 support staff. Maybe rounded to 630 I think.

[European Prussia]

Recruitment Process to the Cortezian Armed Forces

[British Albionoria]

While I consider myself to be knowledgeable in air force and naval matters the same cannot be said for the army in my case. Therefore I wish to recruit yourselves in aiding myself in the construction of my armed forces land component.

In regards to my nations background it is a late eighties NATO nation which considers its commitment to a European overseas force as its primary concern. MONEY FOR DEFENSE IN MY NATION IS FINITE

I was wondering if it was plausible to use the Brigade as the standard field formation in my army with the following organizational structure for regular force and reserve force templates:

Regular Force (Mechanized) Brigade (Six in total, two overseas)
- 3x Mechanized Infantry Battalions
- 1x Armored Battalion
- 1x Combat Engineering Battalion
- 1x Artillery Battalion (issued self propelled guns and air defense)
- 2x Consolidated Support Battalions (medical, logistics and communications components)
- 1x Tactical Helicopter Squadron (utility, recon, transport aircraft)

Entire brigade is housed out of a single base with attached support elements units (such as electrical mechanical engineering, military police, base construction etc.)

Reserve (Motorized) Brigade (Eight in total)
- 3x Light Infantry Battalions
- 1x Light Reconnaissance Battalion
- 1x Combat Engineering Battalion
- 1x Artillery Battalion (issued towed artillery pieces)
- 2x Consolidated Support Battalions (medical, logistics, communications and training components)
- 1x Tactical Helicopter Squadron (utility, recon aircraft)

Reserve Brigades parade out of local armories however there is a central area support unit used for training and brigade level support.

Issued Equipment:

Personal Equipment
- 1982 Pattern Load Bearing Equipment
- M1 Combat Helmet
- Mk. III Combat Boots
- DPM Battle Dress

Platoon Level Weapons
- FN FAL Battle Rifle (with Elcan C79)
- F1 Submachine Gun
- FN MAG General Purpose Machine Gun
- M72 LAW Rocket Launcher
- M67 Fragmentation Grenade

Company Level Weapons
- M19 Infantry Mortar
- M2 Carl Gustav Recoilless Rifle

Battalion Level Weapons
- C3 Infantry Mortar
- TOW-2 Anti Tank Missile
- Javelin MANPADS Anti Air Missile

Artillery Specific Weapons
- C1 M101 Howitzer
- Oerlikon GDF-005 Anti Air Artillery

Armored Vehicles (with brigade level issuing descriptions)
- Leopard 1A5 Main Battle Tank (Issued to Armor Battalion Lone Companies)
- Badger Armored Engineering Vehicle (Issued to Combat Engineering)
- Beaver Brigade Launcher (Issued to Combat Engineering)
- Lynx Armored Reconnaissance Vehicle (Issued to Armor Battalion Reconnaissance Company)
- M113A2 Air Defense, Anti Tank System (Issued to one of four Artillery Battalion Companies)
- M113A2TOW Under Armor (Issued to Combat Support Companies)
- M113A2 Tactical Light Armored Vehicle (Issued as main Infantry Armored Personnel Carrier)
- M113A2 Engineering Variant (Issued as main Combat Engineering Vehicle)
- M113A2 Armor Recovery Variant (Issued to Combat Engineering)
- AVGP Cougar Command and Reconnaissance (Issued to Combat Support Companies)
- AVGP Grizzly Wheeled Section Carrier (Issued to Combat Support Companies for transport of Mortar and Missile Launcher Teams)
- AVGP Husky Armor Recovery Variant (Issued to Combat Engineering)
- M109A4 Self Propelled Gun (Issued to three of four Artillery Battalion Companies)

Unarmored Vehicles
- Iltis Light Reconnaissance Vehicle
- M151 MUTT Light Utility Transport
- Iveco Light Support Vehicle Wheeled
- Bombardier M35 Medium Logistics Vehicle Wheeled
- Styer Heavy Logistics Vehicle Wheeled

Army Cooperation Aircraft
- CH-147 Chinook Transport Helicopter
- CH-135 Twin Huey Utility Helicopter
- CH-136 Kiowa Reconnaissance Helicopter
- CL-289 Midge Reconnaissance UAV

Brigade Level Rank Allocations:

Colonel - Brigade Commander
Lieutenant Colonel - Battalion Commander
Major - Deputy Battalion Commander
Captain - Company Commander
Lieutenant - Deputy Company Commander
Second Lieutenant - Platoon Commander

Chief Warrant Officer - Battalion Sergeant Major
Master Warrant Officer - Company Sergeant Major
Warrant Officer - Platoon Warrant Officer
Sergeant - Section Leader
Master Corporal - Assistant Section Leader
Corporal - Fire Team Leader
Private - Fire Team Member

So my question remains, does this make sense and if it doesn't what could be done to improve it? Thank you in advance.

[The United Remnants of America]

While I consider myself to be knowledgeable in air force and naval matters the same cannot be said for the army in my case. Therefore I wish to recruit yourselves in aiding myself in the construction of my armed forces land component.

In regards to my nations background it is a late eighties NATO nation which considers its commitment to a European overseas force as its primary concern. MONEY FOR DEFENSE IN MY NATION IS FINITE

So my question remains, does this make sense and if it doesn't what could be done to improve it? Thank you in advance.

-Usually, ranks aren't that cemented in, but it's fine if you consider tha a rough outline. Sometimes a PFC(Private, First Class) can be a Fire and Maneuver Team leader and not a Corporal. But you know, it's fluid.
- If you're planning on those TOWs to be footmobile and not mounted, then I'd move them down to company level. Same with the Javs.
- The Bradley IFVs were around in the 80's. They were basically an upgrade of the M113. They'd have about the same versatility you'd want, just with a 20-year upgrade on armor and tech.
-If I were you, I'd replace the UAV in your aicraft with a gunship. You already have a recon ship, so the UAV is un-needed for what you're planning here. Since you seem Western in tech, use a Black Hawk or SuperCobra. I prefer the Black Hawks.

That's it at first glance. Sorry if I seem to critical. I don't know exactly what your plans were, but my advice is if you're planning on going into war with this brigade style.

[British Albionoria]

While I consider myself to be knowledgeable in air force and naval matters the same cannot be said for the army in my case. Therefore I wish to recruit yourselves in aiding myself in the construction of my armed forces land component.

In regards to my nations background it is a late eighties NATO nation which considers its commitment to a European overseas force as its primary concern. MONEY FOR DEFENSE IN MY NATION IS FINITE

So my question remains, does this make sense and if it doesn't what could be done to improve it? Thank you in advance.

-Usually, ranks aren't that cemented in, but it's fine if you consider tha a rough outline. Sometimes a PFC(Private, First Class) can be a Fire and Maneuver Team leader and not a Corporal. But you know, it's fluid.
- If you're planning on those TOWs to be footmobile and not mounted, then I'd move them down to company level. Same with the Javs.
- The Bradley IFVs were around in the 80's. They were basically an upgrade of the M113. They'd have about the same versatility you'd want, just with a 20-year upgrade on armor and tech.
-If I were you, I'd replace the UAV in your aicraft with a gunship. You already have a recon ship, so the UAV is un-needed for what you're planning here. Since you seem Western in tech, use a Black Hawk or SuperCobra. I prefer the Black Hawks.

That's it at first glance. Sorry if I seem to critical. I don't know exactly what your plans were, but my advice is if you're planning on going into war with this brigade style.

No worries, all of it is very useful advice;

I should have labeled the ranks as a rough outline. If a platoon commander is a lieutenant the whole system will not fall apart. Because Corporal in my armed forces if given after three years of service it is kind of like PFC or Lance Corporal in my Army which is why they are given such a small command.

TOWs would be mounted for the most part on either a M151 or Iltis so I would keep them at the Battalion level however I agree with moving the Javelins down the chain.

I would prefer the Black Hawk too for versatility reasons, it could replace the Twin Hueys which at this point will be beginning to show their age.

[The United Remnants of America]

No worries, all of it is very useful advice;

I should have labeled the ranks as a rough outline. If a platoon commander is a lieutenant the whole system will not fall apart. Because Corporal in my armed forces if given after three years of service it is kind of like PFC or Lance Corporal in my Army which is why they are given such a small command.

TOWs would be mounted for the most part on either a M151 or Iltis so I would keep them at the Battalion level however I agree with moving the Javelins down the chain.

I would prefer the Black Hawk too for versatility reasons, it could replace the Twin Hueys which at this point will be beginning to show their age.

-Yes, you could use UH-60's for attack and utility, so they could replace the Hueys. SuperCobras kind of suck in comparison.
- At leats in my military, and I know in American military, TOWs are usually mounted on an APC or IFV. You know, something that's for mechanized infantry. Putting them on the Iltis would look odd, but the MUTT I guess would be do-able.
- Eh, ranks are different in every country and military, so it's hard to judge them, really.

I like this, it's really making me think, since my country is technologically and chronologically about 40-50 years ahead of you. It's difficult to pull back the tech and think in a different gear.

[Radictistan]

Bradley's already fitted with TOW or at least provision, and I'm pretty sure Stryker has provision already.

Speaking of that I have been contemplating if I could adapt a Spike to be barrel fired from a BMP-3. From what I understand the diffrent variants also have different diameters. But I can't find any solid data on it or if I could shrink one down to 100mm. I basically want a fire and forget replacement for the 9M117.

I'm in a similar boat. I don't what kind of guidance system I want for my future indigenous GLATGM or what I can reasonably put in there. I really want top-attack to avoid the frontal armor of NS-grade tanks but I'm not sure how to do that. Wire guidance strikes me as impractical for tanks so I can't copy BILL 2 in that regard. I don't want to go back to radio guidance because of jamming concerns. And the drop from 17cm to 12.5cm is a concern in terms of adapting the Spike CCD/IIR head.

[British Albionoria]

No worries, all of it is very useful advice;

I should have labeled the ranks as a rough outline. If a platoon commander is a lieutenant the whole system will not fall apart. Because Corporal in my armed forces if given after three years of service it is kind of like PFC or Lance Corporal in my Army which is why they are given such a small command.

TOWs would be mounted for the most part on either a M151 or Iltis so I would keep them at the Battalion level however I agree with moving the Javelins down the chain.

I would prefer the Black Hawk too for versatility reasons, it could replace the Twin Hueys which at this point will be beginning to show their age.

-Yes, you could use UH-60's for attack and utility, so they could replace the Hueys. SuperCobras kind of suck in comparison.
- At leats in my military, and I know in American military, TOWs are usually mounted on an APC or IFV. You know, something that's for mechanized infantry. Putting them on the Iltis would look odd, but the MUTT I guess would be do-able.
- Eh, ranks are different in every country and military, so it's hard to judge them, really.

I like this, it's really making me think, since my country is technologically and chronologically about 40-50 years ahead of you. It's difficult to pull back the tech and think in a different gear.

TOWs would be mounted on the M113 TUA and provide anti tank cover for the mechanized infantry battalions however in reserve brigades which would not have armored vehicles the TOW teams would have to be mounted on jeeps.

That's what I was going for, in my previous nation I was using post modern tech with an armed forces on counterinsurgency. Organizing this military based on conventional AirLand tactics is a bit of a brain exercise for myself.

[Questers]

Basically British Albionoria you want to RP Canada in the Cold War.

[Ea90]

Standard Yanintovian LBV; it can hold 6 grenades, 4 20-round 6.5x55 mags, 8 10-round 6.5x55 stripper clips, 3L of water, an OKC-3S ripoff, enough food to last 24 hours, an entrenching tool, a radio, a first aid kit, a torch, a multitool, 6 water purification tablets, a hygiene kit, binoculars, a sleeping bag and a compass.
Including the uniform, boots and gloves, that comes to 22.915kg.

[Spirit of Hope]

(Image)
Standard Yanintovian LBV; it can hold 6 grenades, 4 20-round 6.5x55 mags, 8 10-round 6.5x55 stripper clips, 3L of water, an OKC-3S ripoff, enough food to last 24 hours, an entrenching tool, a radio, a first aid kit, a torch, a multitool, 6 water purification tablets, a hygiene kit, binoculars, a sleeping bag and a compass.
Including the uniform, boots and gloves, that comes to 22.915kg.

Only 4 20 round magazines? That seams rather low (100 rounds ready), most people push for around 6 30 round magazines (180 rounds ready). Now I realize you have the stripper clips, but they don't exactly replace a magazine of ammo. Also 6 grenades sounds rather high, I would stick to 1-3 grenades.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Remember that he's using 6.5x55 which I am positive is a pretty potent battle rifle cartridge.

[Ea90]

Only 4 20 round magazines? That seams rather low (100 rounds ready), most people push for around 6 30 round magazines (180 rounds ready).

Yeah I realise the ammo is low, but I didn't want the weight to saw.

Also 6 grenades sounds rather high, I would stick to 1-3 grenades.

I was thinking 2 offensive, 2 defensive, 1 smoke and 1 WP.

[Spirit of Hope]

Only 4 20 round magazines? That seams rather low (100 rounds ready), most people push for around 6 30 round magazines (180 rounds ready).

Yeah I realise the ammo is low, but I didn't want the weight to saw.

Also 6 grenades sounds rather high, I would stick to 1-3 grenades.

I was thinking 2 offensive, 2 defensive, 1 smoke and 1 WP.

Just go with 2 frag grenades, and then hand out smokes to NCOs and a WP to regular troops. Honestly smoke and WP are rather specalized types, and you might not even need to pass them out on a regular bases. You save the weight of three grenades which you convert to magazines ammo.

Para, since a soldier will shoot a lot of bullets for almost no hits, doesn't matter what your cartridge is, you always want more ammo.

[Hawkwick]

I have three questions:

Okay, so the Hawkwickan Army recently found a WWII-era Nazi Stockpile, and we have taken to upgrading the Me-410 Hornisse into ground attack planes. Modifications include the addition of modern-day avionics, turboprops, and missile/weapon pylons, as well as a three barrel, centrally mounted, 12.7mm gatling gun similar to the GAU-19. The plane in RL has demonstrated the mounting of large weapons, including the BK-5.

My real question is: How feasible is this and is it really that useful? Note that it is meant to be used as a close-strike and infantry support plane, as well as in possible recon/surveillance roles. Essentially, a manned UAV.

Second:

Additionally, the army also found many Pz III and Pz IV hulls and turrets, and have taken to upgrading the tanks with new engines, tracks, computers, composite armor, and a 105mm gun, for intended use as a recon vehicle and light tank.

The question is the same: How feasible is this and is it really that useful?

And finally: Is it possible to fit caseless ammunition into a conventional magazine?

[Questers]

Okay, so the Hawkwickan Army recently found a WWII-era Nazi Stockpile
Additionally, the army also found

In that case no. Possibly if you rebuilt them exactly to standard, but it still isn't a good idea.

If you are rebuilding them with new suspension, engines, and armour then what is the point? It won't even look like a Panzer III. If you want to make a "modern" Panzer III that is a different matter altogether but why? Also don't give it a 105mm gun - give it an autocannon of some type.