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[NSGS] Placeholderstani Workers' Alliance (Planning)

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Albul
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Postby Albul » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:24 pm

Sign me up!
Last edited by Albul on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Heraklea-
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Postby Heraklea- » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:42 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:1) We do not support violent revolution. However, we strongly believe a social and economic revolution is necessary to create an egalitarian nation.

I don't think we should necessarily renounce violent revolution, as this may be the only way to create change in countries where the democratic rule of law does not exist. How about instead: "We seek through democratic reforms to carryout the social and economic revolution necessary to create an egalitarian nation."

2) We strive to remove profit motives in the economy and allow for worker cooperation rather than vicious competition, to allow democratic management of the economy by the workers.

That still feels like expressly supporting syndicalist style socialism over statist. I recommend as a substitute: "We strive to remove profit motives and encourage worker cooperation vice vicious competition to ensure a just and humane economy."

3) We support a social “safety net” and strict regulation of business in order to protect the worker and those who cannot work from harm in a Capitalist economy and during the transition away from Capitalism

Like it.

4) We support social ownership of public necessities and providing them to all, free of cost, or at as little cost as possible

Like it.

5) We support global co-operation and free trade, in order to ensure advantages from the global market for workers internationally

As others have said, substituting "fair trade" for "free trade" would be a better statement.

6) We recognize the intrinsic value of all living being and are dedicated to preserving the natural world. When there is need for the use of natural resources, we are committed to conservation and sustainable management such that it benefits all Placeholderstanis.

Eloquently put. Whoever wrote this is a genius. :roll:

7) We uphold Separation of Church and State, both Freedom of and Freedom From Religion. The Government is not a place for religious dogma, and religious liberty should be protected equally for all belief or lack of belief.

Like it.

8 ) We fight for equality for all people, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. We support LGBT+ Rights, Feminism and all forms of gender egalitarianism.

Like it.

9) We do not support unnecessary interference in the personal lives of the people and oppose arbitrary enforcement of “morality” in favor of social freedoms.

Like it.
Last edited by Heraklea- on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kincoboh
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Postby Kincoboh » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:17 pm

Heraklea- wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:1) We do not support violent revolution. However, we strongly believe a social and economic revolution is necessary to create an egalitarian nation.

I don't think we should necessarily renounce violent revolution, as this may be the only way to create change in countries where the democratic rule of law does not exist. How about instead: "We seek through democratic reforms to carryout the social and economic revolution necessary to create an egalitarian nation."

2) We strive to remove profit motives in the economy and allow for worker cooperation rather than vicious competition, to allow democratic management of the economy by the workers.

That still feels like expressly supporting syndicalist style socialism over statist. I recommend as a substitute: "We strive to remove profit motives and encourage worker cooperation vice vicious competition to ensure a just and humane economy."

3) We support a social “safety net” and strict regulation of business in order to protect the worker and those who cannot work from harm in a Capitalist economy and during the transition away from Capitalism

Like it.

4) We support social ownership of public necessities and providing them to all, free of cost, or at as little cost as possible

Like it.

5) We support global co-operation and free trade, in order to ensure advantages from the global market for workers internationally

As others have said, substituting "fair trade" for "free trade" would be a better statement.

6) We recognize the intrinsic value of all living being and are dedicated to preserving the natural world. When there is need for the use of natural resources, we are committed to conservation and sustainable management such that it benefits all Placeholderstanis.

Eloquently put. Whoever wrote this is a genius. :roll:

7) We uphold Separation of Church and State, both Freedom of and Freedom From Religion. The Government is not a place for religious dogma, and religious liberty should be protected equally for all belief or lack of belief.

Like it.

8 ) We fight for equality for all people, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. We support LGBT+ Rights, Feminism and all forms of gender egalitarianism.

Like it.

9) We do not support unnecessary interference in the personal lives of the people and oppose arbitrary enforcement of “morality” in favor of social freedoms.

Like it.

Your roll eye thing is confusing me. Are you being facetious for 6?
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Heraklea-
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Founded: Jun 29, 2013
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Postby Heraklea- » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:28 pm

Kincoboh wrote:Your roll eye thing is confusing me. Are you being facetious for 6?

I wrote #6, and touting it in the way that I did was intended to be humorous. So... yeah, a little.
Last edited by Heraklea- on Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kazirstan
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Postby Kazirstan » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:33 pm

Albul wrote:Sign me up!

Hello comrade!

We should sign this guy up, he basically eats, lives, breathes, and shits left-wing theory.
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Kincoboh
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Postby Kincoboh » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:54 pm

Heraklea- wrote:
Kincoboh wrote:Your roll eye thing is confusing me. Are you being facetious for 6?

I wrote #6, and touting it in the way that I did was intended to be humorous. So... yeah, a little.

Oh... why? Do you not agree with it?
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Heraklea-
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Postby Heraklea- » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:57 pm

Kincoboh wrote:Oh... why? Do you not agree with it?

I do agree with it. On the other points I didn't suggest changes I simply said "Like it." On the one that I wrote, I comment like it is the greatest thing ever written. I'm poking fun at my own ego.

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Kincoboh
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Postby Kincoboh » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:00 pm

Heraklea- wrote:
Kincoboh wrote:Oh... why? Do you not agree with it?

I do agree with it. On the other points I didn't suggest changes I simply said "Like it." On the one that I wrote, I comment like it is the greatest thing ever written. I'm poking fun at my own ego.

Ahh I get it :p
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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:11 am

I may be interested, depending on how much time I have. Ahh I remember the old communist party, good times...
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Osea 767
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Postby Osea 767 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:22 am

Yes, they were. Hopefully, this group will do well as a successor to the old socialist parties.

Edit: Also, NST, we really need to improve our relations with the other left wing parties. It would be bad if we were to become isolated at such an early point.
Last edited by Osea 767 on Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The New Sea Territory
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Founded: Dec 13, 2012
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:16 am

Bojikami wrote:Have I been accepted? If so, I shall apply for the senate.


Yes.
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:17 am

Osea 767 wrote:Yes, they were. Hopefully, this group will do well as a successor to the old socialist parties.

Edit: Also, NST, we really need to improve our relations with the other left wing parties. It would be bad if we were to become isolated at such an early point.


Yes. Should we work for a coalition or just try to cooperate?
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Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:22 am

Heraklea- wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:1) We do not support violent revolution. However, we strongly believe a social and economic revolution is necessary to create an egalitarian nation.

I don't think we should necessarily renounce violent revolution, as this may be the only way to create change in countries where the democratic rule of law does not exist. How about instead: "We seek through democratic reforms to carryout the social and economic revolution necessary to create an egalitarian nation."

2) We strive to remove profit motives in the economy and allow for worker cooperation rather than vicious competition, to allow democratic management of the economy by the workers.

That still feels like expressly supporting syndicalist style socialism over statist. I recommend as a substitute: "We strive to remove profit motives and encourage worker cooperation vice vicious competition to ensure a just and humane economy."


1) Agreed.

2) How about substituting what I underlined with "to allow workers to have a say in the democratic management of the economy"?
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Glasgia
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Postby Glasgia » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:32 am

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Osea 767 wrote:Yes, they were. Hopefully, this group will do well as a successor to the old socialist parties.

Edit: Also, NST, we really need to improve our relations with the other left wing parties. It would be bad if we were to become isolated at such an early point.


Yes. Should we work for a coalition or just try to cooperate?


I'll talk you Arglo and see what he thinks - Personally, I think a coalition might be necessary even if it's early to set that in stone.

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Glasgia wrote:
I'd remove points seven and eight, as they're covered to some extent by nine - Though perhaps we could make that wider to ensure they're taken properly into account.



I though the whole ensuring advantages part implied we only supported "fair" trade - ie. trade that benefits the workers.


We wanted them specifically mentioned, to make a strong stance on those issues. How about this:

"We do not support unnecessary interference in the personal lives of the people and oppose arbitrary enforcement of “morality” in favor of social freedoms, and stand for equal liberty for all individuals, including Freedom of and from Religion, LGBT+ Rights and Gender Equality"

As for the free trade...Yeah, that makes sense too. I really like either wording, I don't think it's bad either way.


Yeah, that works. Try and keep this as concise as possible, as it should only be a short summary of the most minimum program.

Heraklea- wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:1) We do not support violent revolution. However, we strongly believe a social and economic revolution is necessary to create an egalitarian nation.

I don't think we should necessarily renounce violent revolution, as this may be the only way to create change in countries where the democratic rule of law does not exist. How about instead: "We seek through democratic reforms to carryout the social and economic revolution necessary to create an egalitarian nation."


Hmmm.... Whichever nation we are in will be democratic, so there's no need for that.

The New Sea Territory wrote:2) We strive to remove profit motives in the economy and allow for worker cooperation rather than vicious competition, to allow democratic management of the economy by the workers.


Can't believe I skimmed over this before. As a Market Socialist, I think that this currently implies that competition is inherently vicious and therefore I object to it. Might just need re-wording, to make sure it's clear we object to "competition that is vicious" as opposed to competition in general.
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Bojikami
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Postby Bojikami » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:35 am

I'm afraid I should withdraw from this party, as I believe I will be starting my own.
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:48 am

Here's the revised version.

1) We strongly support democratic reforms to carry out social and economic revolution to create an egalitarian nation.
2) We strive to remove profit motives in the economy and allow for worker cooperation rather than vicious capitalistic competition, to allow workers to have a say in a fair, humane and democratically managed economy.
3) We support a social “safety net” and strict regulation of business in order to protect the worker and those who cannot work from harm in a Capitalist economy and during the transition away from Capitalism.
4) We support social ownership of public necessities and providing them to all, free of cost, or at as little cost as possible.
5) We support global co-operation and both free and fair trade, in order to ensure advantages from the global market for workers internationally.
6) We recognize the intrinsic value of all living being and are dedicated to preserving the natural world. When there is need for the use of natural resources, we are committed to conservation and sustainable management such that it benefits all Placeholderstanis.
7) We do not support unnecessary interference in the personal lives of the people and oppose arbitrary enforcement of “morality” in favor of social freedoms, and stand for equal liberty for all individuals, including Freedom of and from Religion, LGBT+ Rights and Gender Equality.
Last edited by The New Sea Territory on Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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The New Sea Territory
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Founded: Dec 13, 2012
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:48 am

Bojikami wrote:I'm afraid I should withdraw from this party, as I believe I will be starting my own.


wat.
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Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Glasgia
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Founded: Jul 28, 2011
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Postby Glasgia » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:49 am

Bojikami wrote:I'm afraid I should withdraw from this party, as I believe I will be starting my own.


Fair enough, though sad to see you go. Good luck!
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Glasgia
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Postby Glasgia » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:50 am

Just to help get a general idea of opinions on possible coalitions, or at least co-operation, what are people's opinions on working with:
- Democratic Left?
- Liberal Democrats?
- Christian Justice Party?
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Call me Glas, or Glasgia. Or just "mate".
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The New Sea Territory
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Founded: Dec 13, 2012
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:54 am

Glasgia wrote:Just to help get a general idea of opinions on possible coalitions, or at least co-operation, what are people's opinions on working with:
- Democratic Left?
- Liberal Democrats?
- Christian Justice Party?


CJP is progressive, right? I'd support working with the DemLeft.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Glasgia
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Founded: Jul 28, 2011
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Postby Glasgia » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:57 am

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Glasgia wrote:Just to help get a general idea of opinions on possible coalitions, or at least co-operation, what are people's opinions on working with:
- Democratic Left?
- Liberal Democrats?
- Christian Justice Party?


CJP is progressive, right? I'd support working with the DemLeft.


CJP is kinda a progressive centrist party, though obviously they still appear to hold some religious values.
Today's Featured Nation
Call me Glas, or Glasgia. Or just "mate".
Pal would work too.
Yeah, just call me whatever the fuck you want.




Market Socialist. Economic -8.12 Social -6.21
PRO: SNP, (Corbynite/Brownite/Footite) Labour Party, SSP, Sinn Féin, SDLP
ANTI: Blairite "New Labour", Tories, UKIP, DUP

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The New Sea Territory
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Founded: Dec 13, 2012
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:59 am

Glasgia wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:
CJP is progressive, right? I'd support working with the DemLeft.


CJP is kinda a progressive centrist party, though obviously they still appear to hold some religious values.


I think they would side more with the LibDems then.

That would make it WA/DemLeft vs. LibDem/CJP vs. CivDems/Monarchists. Would we invite Boji's party to our coalition?
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Kincoboh
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Founded: Oct 06, 2014
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Postby Kincoboh » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:02 am

Glasgia wrote:Just to help get a general idea of opinions on possible coalitions, or at least co-operation, what are people's opinions on working with:
- Democratic Left?
- Liberal Democrats?
- Christian Justice Party?

Everyone as long as they are open to our ideas. Though the LibDems seem more centrist than anything.
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Glasgia
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Founded: Jul 28, 2011
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Postby Glasgia » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:02 am

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Glasgia wrote:
CJP is kinda a progressive centrist party, though obviously they still appear to hold some religious values.


I think they would side more with the LibDems then.

That would make it WA/DemLeft vs. LibDem/CJP vs. CivDems/Monarchists. Would we invite Boji's party to our coalition?


Well, a three-way battle means no one wins. Boji actually went and tried to join the DemLeft for whatever reason, but they rejected him so I'd assume if he starts a party it'll be Marxist-Leninist. I'd personally rather work with the LibDems than any Stalinist formation, as even though I could work with Boji you know the types that'll attract. That should give our potential coalition a majority, with the CJP and the Monarchists pretty minute.
Today's Featured Nation
Call me Glas, or Glasgia. Or just "mate".
Pal would work too.
Yeah, just call me whatever the fuck you want.




Market Socialist. Economic -8.12 Social -6.21
PRO: SNP, (Corbynite/Brownite/Footite) Labour Party, SSP, Sinn Féin, SDLP
ANTI: Blairite "New Labour", Tories, UKIP, DUP

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Kincoboh
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Founded: Oct 06, 2014
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Postby Kincoboh » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:06 am

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Glasgia wrote:
CJP is kinda a progressive centrist party, though obviously they still appear to hold some religious values.


I think they would side more with the LibDems then.

That would make it WA/DemLeft vs. LibDem/CJP vs. CivDems/Monarchists. Would we invite Boji's party to our coalition?

I want to know why he's making a party when we're stronger together than alone. Also, we should look to court some independents because there are a fair amount of them.
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