NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate]

[Arglorand]

Senator, language.

Sorry their driving me crazy.

It's quite alright. I'm sure we've all been there.

[CTALNH]

We encouraged democracy for 2 days.

We have a metric ton of bills to pass but you know because the coalition for a better future (that half the people of Aurentina do not want) wants to make one of their members PM so they can rule with an iron fist and kick all left wing elements out of their government because their power hungry wants to extend the voting because they seem to be losing!

Thats is not freaking democracy!

Senator, if the PM is legally voted in by the senate, there is nothing you can complain about.

And I would ask that you take a deep breath and calm down.

Thats not my problem!

If they win well good job!

If we win well good job!

But for damn we have been voting for 2 days and never once have they caught up to us.

Lets freaking end the vote when the time ends and let the better side win I freaking plead you...

[Chetssaland]

Senator, it is a fallacy to claim that you are not guilty of obstructionism simply because your opposition is as well.

It's refreshing to hear someone from the Coalition admit that obstructionism is exactly what you're doing.

Quite obviously. It's painful to see that no one from the opposition is willing to do the same though.

[Ainin]

I move to add this to the queue.

Mariachi Band Act

The Aurentine Senate,

Declaring that passing laws is key to Aurentina's stability,

Noting that the event is usually passed without celebration,

Refusing to accept this fact,

Creates the 1st Mariachi Regiment, under control of the Commonwealth Army,

Remarking it must play festive music every time a bill is carried,

Hereby passes the Mariachi Band Act.

[Chetssaland]

I honestly don't know what you mean by "that's not how categories work." What in my post is incorrect. Do you truly think that allowing more people to vote is subverting democracy? Or that the centrist coalition shouldn't perform a legal action, even if it may or may not help them win?

We've had two days to vote Senator. Members of the coalition are extending the voting period for purely political means in an attempt to unfairly shift the balance.

Everything the senate does is for political reasons, I don't know why this is a problem. And it is not unfair. The opposition has more time to vote, as does the coalition.

[Free South Califas]

You're an admin and have been here longer, and want us to bend over backwards for every parliamentary trick you can pull out of your pocket. So I'd like you to demonstrate where it says this extraordinary procedure wouldn't require admin approval, wihle mundane omnibus motions do.

Chambers search for word "extend".
Lobby search for word "extend".
Coffee Shop search for word "extend".
Nothing there says admin approval.

Now you're speaking my language Thanks for your comprehensive response, Senator. If I see anything to support my position in these searches I will get back to you.

[Chetssaland]

Can both sides of the aisle stop trying to assert that the other "hates democracy" or is trying to subvert the same? I think that the right wing is trying to play procedural rules to their advantage politically. Just because they want to be in power does not mean they hate democracy.

Alas, just because the left does not want the right to be in power also does not mean they hate democracy or that they somehow want to destroy Aurentina.

Both sides are guilty of looking out for their self-interest. Let's accept that and deal with the issues facing this country.

Thank you. I thought I was the only one being honest in this thread.

[Resora]

I honestly don't know what you mean by "that's not how categories work." What in my post is incorrect. Do you truly think that allowing more people to vote is subverting democracy? Or that the centrist coalition shouldn't perform a legal action, even if it may or may not help them win?

We've had two days to vote Senator. Members of the coalition are extending the voting period for purely political means in an attempt to unfairly shift the balance.

And by playing these political games, they deprive the people of the Aurentine Commonwealth of the leadership they voted for, preventing necessary legislation from reaching a vote.

[Free South Califas]

That's just not how categories work. I'm afraid your understanding is inhibited by convenience, as far as I can tell.

I honestly don't know what you mean by "that's not how categories work." What in my post is incorrect. Do you truly think that allowing more people to vote is subverting democracy?

Apologies Senator, I was unclear. What I'm saying is the categories your question assumes, don't make sense. "Allowing more people to vote" isn't categorically one or the other. It makes no sense to just chop out all the other context and demand people reduce their position to one categorical statement like that which doesn't actually present a unified, coherent set of choices except as required by a propaganda goal.

Here's the sensible categorical question. Is it in the interest of a losing group to extend voting windows indefinitely until their side wins or the Senate has been held up for weeks hearing from everyone who can be reached? Yes, it would seem to be in their interest. Unfortunately, this doesn't neatly wrap up a value judgement, but sometimes politics is unsatisfying.

Or that the centrist coalition shouldn't perform a legal action, even if it may or may not help them win?

I understand they would hesitate to take an action which could lead to being forced to embrace defeat or realignment. I think it's fair for me to say that it reeks of opportunism at the Aurentine people's expense. While they wait for us to settle crucial issues and establish basic institutions, an all but dead whale is being dragged back ashore for another viewing.

Is it moral? During the vote I'd be inclined to leave that to the philosophers. But let me ask you this - do you want voting on every Communist bill coming down the pike to be extended every day until we achieve our desired result? If not, why not? Mind, we've got a slew of them coming, on everything from local governments to small business loans.

[Malgrave]

We've had two days to vote Senator. Members of the coalition are extending the voting period for purely political means in an attempt to unfairly shift the balance.

Everything the senate does is for political reasons, I don't know why this is a problem. And it is not unfair. The opposition has more time to vote, as does the coalition.

We've had two days to vote Senator, the entire idea that the voting period needs to be extended is just an attempt to gather more "proxy" votes and weaken the opposition. Its undemocratic and weakens the legitimacy of Senator Geils PM bid.

[Britcan]

You know what, I was going to not vote in this but seeing as one side is clearly and unashamedly trying to win the vote through the exploitation of the rules I vote against the act currently at vote.

[Chetssaland]

We've had two days to vote Senator. Members of the coalition are extending the voting period for purely political means in an attempt to unfairly shift the balance.

And by playing these political games, they deprive the people of the Aurentine Commonwealth of the leadership they voted for, preventing necessary legislation from reaching a vote.

Which your clan is also guilty of. Both sides are. Neither side should play the morality card.

[Malgrave]

I believe we also have two new votes against the PM's confirmation.

I vote nay.

I vote against the PM's confirmation

[CTALNH]

I move to add this to the queue.

Mariachi Band Act

The Aurentine Senate,

Declaring that passing laws is key to Aurentina's stability,

Noting that the event is usually passed without celebration,

Refusing to accept this fact,

Creates the 1st Mariachi Regiment, under control of the Commonwealth Army,

Remarking it must play festive music every time a bill is carried,

Hereby passes the Mariachi Band Act.

I demand they play Demonon Vrosis!

[Resora]

And by playing these political games, they deprive the people of the Aurentine Commonwealth of the leadership they voted for, preventing necessary legislation from reaching a vote.

Which your clan is also guilty of. Both sides are. Neither side should play the morality card.

The UWF is not attempting to waste another 24 hours of the Senate's and the people of Aurentine's time. I would think a centrist such as yourself would be more strongly opposed to "wasting taxpayer money", but apparently all is fair and justified when it protects the power of a handful.

[Free South Califas]

Everything the senate does is for political reasons, I don't know why this is a problem. And it is not unfair. The opposition has more time to vote, as does the coalition.

We've had two days to vote Senator, the entire idea that the voting period needs to be extended is just an attempt to gather more "proxy" votes and weaken the opposition. Its undemocratic and weakens the legitimacy of Senator Geils PM bid.

That's perhaps the saddest thing about it, how a Senator and Chairman has had his reputation sullied by shameful association with such a grand manipulator with so little care for the effects of his actions.

And by playing these political games, they deprive the people of the Aurentine Commonwealth of the leadership they voted for, preventing necessary legislation from reaching a vote.

Which your clan is also guilty of. Both sides are. Neither side should play the morality card.

That's not true, and I think that after your party collaborated to purge us from government consideration it's borderline callous to beat us over the head with false equivalence like this.

[Gothmogs]

I move to add this to the queue.

Mariachi Band Act

The Aurentine Senate,

Declaring that passing laws is key to Aurentina's stability,

Noting that the event is usually passed without celebration,

Refusing to accept this fact,

Creates the 1st Mariachi Regiment, under control of the Commonwealth Army,

Remarking it must play festive music every time a bill is carried,

Hereby passes the Mariachi Band Act.

I will sponsor.

[Chetssaland]

Apologies Senator, I was unclear. What I'm saying is the categories your question assumes, don't make sense. "Allowing more people to vote" isn't categorically one or the other. It makes no sense to just chop out all the other context and demand people reduce their position to one categorical statement like that which doesn't actually present a unified, coherent set of choices except as required by a propaganda goal.

Here's the sensible categorical question. Is it in the interest of a losing group to extend voting windows indefinitely until their side wins or the Senate has been held up for weeks hearing from everyone who can be reached? Yes, it would seem to be in their interest. Unfortunately, this doesn't neatly wrap up a value judgement, but sometimes politics is unsatisfying.

I understand they would hesitate to take an action which could lead to being forced to embrace defeat or realignment. I think it's fair for me to say that it reeks of opportunism at the Aurentine people's expense. While they wait for us to settle crucial issues and establish basic institutions, an all but dead whale is being dragged back ashore for another viewing.

Is it moral? During the vote I'd be inclined to leave that to the philosophers. But let me ask you this - do you want voting on every Communist bill coming down the pike to be extended every day until we achieve our desired result? If not, why not? Mind, we've got a slew of them coming, on everything from local governments to small business loans.

Opportunism at the Aurentine people's expense? That could be levied against the coalition. However, it could also be levied against the opposition. At this point, that should not be part of the argument, as both sides are guilty.

I would not want this happening on every single bill, but frankly the PM vote is one of the most important votes this country has had. That would be my argument for why it is more important for everyone to vote in this case, and not in other cases. Now would that argument have any weight legally? Certainly not. The communists are certainly allowed to extend voting in their bills, and there is nothing I can do about it.

[Welsh Cowboy]

I think perhaps the rules surrounding extension of voting need reconsidering. Where was the legal basis for vote extension created?

[Chetssaland]

Which your clan is also guilty of. Both sides are. Neither side should play the morality card.

The UWF is not attempting to waste another 24 hours of the Senate's and the people of Aurentine's time. I would think a centrist such as yourself would be more strongly opposed to "wasting taxpayer money", but apparently all is fair and justified when it protects the power of a handful.

When I see one side wasting taxpayer money for their own interests, I do see it as justified for the other side to do the same. The UWF may not be attempting to waste another 24 hours, but it has already wasted plenty of time by preventing Aurentina from having a Prime Minister. The obstruction has nothing to do with whether Geilinor would be good for the people, but is strictly political.

[CTALNH]

I think perhaps the rules surrounding extension of voting need reconsidering. Where was the legal basis for vote extension created?

We have?

[Yanalia]

The UWF is not attempting to waste another 24 hours of the Senate's and the people of Aurentine's time. I would think a centrist such as yourself would be more strongly opposed to "wasting taxpayer money", but apparently all is fair and justified when it protects the power of a handful.

When I see one side wasting taxpayer money for their own interests, I do see it as justified for the other side to do the same. The UWF may not be attempting to waste another 24 hours, but it has already wasted plenty of time by preventing Aurentina from having a Prime Minister. The obstruction has nothing to do with whether Geilinor would be good for the people, but is strictly political.

It has EVERYTHING to do with whether Geilinor would be good for the people. I do not think putting his coalition in power is any way good for the people.

[Chetssaland]

That's not true, and I think that after your party collaborated to purge us from government consideration it's borderline callous to beat us over the head with false equivalence like this.

But it is true. The sole reason Geilinor is not PM at this point is because of political opposition to the coalition.

[Welsh Cowboy]

When I see one side wasting taxpayer money for their own interests, I do see it as justified for the other side to do the same. The UWF may not be attempting to waste another 24 hours, but it has already wasted plenty of time by preventing Aurentina from having a Prime Minister. The obstruction has nothing to do with whether Geilinor would be good for the people, but is strictly political.

It has EVERYTHING to do with whether Geilinor would be good for the people. I do not think putting his coalition in power is any way good for the people.

Senator, I wish to ask you though. What other possible government do you see forming?

[Chetssaland]

When I see one side wasting taxpayer money for their own interests, I do see it as justified for the other side to do the same. The UWF may not be attempting to waste another 24 hours, but it has already wasted plenty of time by preventing Aurentina from having a Prime Minister. The obstruction has nothing to do with whether Geilinor would be good for the people, but is strictly political.

It has EVERYTHING to do with whether Geilinor would be good for the people. I do not think putting his coalition in power is any way good for the people.

And we think it would be good for the people. So we are extending the vote so that there is still opportunity for him to be voted in as the PM. There are still senators whose voiced have not been heard.