Students forced to recite Pledge of Allegiance, VA

[Kurdazistan]

I am from VIRGINIA.

We were NEVER EVER EVER BLOODY FORCED to recite anything you liars.

Sometimes I had books to read or was tired and I stayed down, it was allowed.

If you are complaining for your fellow plants and spies, well I thank you for making us aware of who to watch out for.

[Allied Governments]

I find it pathetic that you're whining about something so trivial.

But hey, that's NSG for you.

[Feazanthia]

:eyebrow: I am from VIRGINIA.

We were NEVER EVER EVER BLOODY FORCED to recite anything you liars.

Sometimes I had books to read or was tired and I stayed down, it was allowed.

If you are complaining for your fellow plants and spies, well I thank you for making us aware of who to watch out for.

Keep in mind that Viriginia is a large state, and we have many school districts. Also, that every school may try things differently.

A school in Fairfax County, for example, may be slightly more lenient than one in say Richmond.

[Linux and the X]

:eyebrow: I am from VIRGINIA.

We were NEVER EVER EVER BLOODY FORCED to recite anything you liars.

Sometimes I had books to read or was tired and I stayed down, it was allowed.

If you are complaining for your fellow plants and spies, well I thank you for making us aware of who to watch out for.

You say that you were, in the past, not required to recite the Pledge. The law may have been changed since you attended school. If not, you may just have had teachers who did not care enough about the issue.

[Katganistan]

:eyebrow: I am from VIRGINIA.

We were NEVER EVER EVER BLOODY FORCED to recite anything you liars.

Sometimes I had books to read or was tired and I stayed down, it was allowed.

If you are complaining for your fellow plants and spies, well I thank you for making us aware of who to watch out for.

Apparently, your past experience and the OP's present experience are different.

[Jagalonia]

Wait wait wait....WHAT?!!?!?

What did you find unclear?

People aren't dumb for not wanting their rights violated....This is madness!

[Hitchensland]

There's a rule in my school that says "students may not wear head coverings, or hats of any kind at any time during the school day, unless it is for religious observance." So I'm wondering why someone doesn't just go make up their own religion and say that it requires them to wear a baseball cap.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Dude, that says you can remain sitting if you want, so throw that out if they try to do anything to you. I don't think you SHOULD, but you have the right to remain seated while the pledge of allegiance is being recited. SO isn't that kind've completely oxymoronizing this whole argument?

[Feazanthia]

So move. Why are you here if you hate the country?

I'm gonna address this one in particular, but this is a general statement to all those who say "if you don't like it get out."

He's 17. A teenager. There is almost no chance he has the resources, logistics, or even legal capability to leave the country on his own. I'm not even 100% certain you can obtain a passport or immigration forms to any western nation without the consent of your parent/guardian.

I'm 23 and I certainly don't have the resources or logistics in place for immigration. Even if he wanted to, the OP does not have the capability.

So please, PLEASE stop with this argument. It's so short-sighted it's pathetic.

Furthermore, if dissent were a detriment to society the democratic model would never have taken flight. Dissent is a necessity to a healthy, free society. The drive to peacefully change the nation is a cornerstone of American thinking. Peaceful disobediance was the modus operandi of some of the United States' biggest cultural and political heroes.

So while you're entitled to your view of "Don't like it get out", please keep what I have said in mind.

[Auremena]

I disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.

Agree with you on all points above. When I lived in VA, I just stood there, to the dismay of my teachers. I assume most of the rest of the south has similar laws, as I currently live in Florida. Another wording I disagree with is Indivisible. The nation has been and is divided. Does the American Civil War mean nothing? Politics divides our nation as well, to some extent. They're all conservative capitalists in the end. Liberty and Justice for all are other wordings I don't agree with, especially as a victim of unjust treatment.

[Avalic]

There's a rule in my school that says "students may not wear head coverings, or hats of any kind at any time during the school day, unless it is for religious observance." So I'm wondering why someone doesn't just go make up their own religion and say that it requires them to wear a baseball cap.

I believe the religion needs to be recognized as a religion by the United States government.

[Farnhamia]

There's a rule in my school that says "students may not wear head coverings, or hats of any kind at any time during the school day, unless it is for religious observance." So I'm wondering why someone doesn't just go make up their own religion and say that it requires them to wear a baseball cap.

Whatever school administrations may be, they aren't that stupid.

[Koffee]

Then, get the fuck out.

This is a valid, irrefutable argument that has not been brought up in threads prior to this.

I've often found this kind of jingoism creepy in a 1984 kind of way. Does anyone know of any other countries that have daily pledges of allegiance demanded of their citizens? Are any of them democracies?

[Mahaj]

In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.

I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience. I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it. I suggest students in a similar predicament to sit down, don't give in just because people tell you to. Now I may be facing some sort of disciplinary action from the school for refusing to recite a pledge; it's the land of the free and home of the brave I suppose.

Here's an excerpt from the Virginia Senate Bill 1331:

Pledge of Allegiance. Requires (i) all students to be required to learn the Pledge of Allegiance and to demonstrate such knowledge and (ii) each school board to require the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in each classroom of the school division and to ensure that an American flag is in place in each classroom. Each school board must determine the appropriate time during the school day for the recitation of the Pledge. During the Pledge of Allegiance, students must either stand and recite the Pledge while facing the flag with their right hands over their hearts or in an appropriate salute if in uniform; however, no student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds. Students who are thus exempt from reciting the Pledge must remain quietly standing or sitting at their desks while others recite the Pledge and must not make any display that disrupts or distracts others who are reciting the Pledge. School boards must provide appropriate accommodations for students who are unable to comply with these procedures due to disability. School board codes of conduct shall apply to disruptive behavior during the recitation of the Pledge in the same manner as provided for other circumstances of similar behavior. The Office of the Attorney General must intervene on behalf of local school boards and must provide legal defense of these provisions.

Here's a link to the full text.

I do apologize for the verbose nature of this post, but I felt that this community was the right place to share my plight.

I live in Virginia. At my school, the way it is interpreted is "fine, you don't HAVE to recite it, but you MUST stand up". I have a friend who is Russian who does not recite the PofA. He says he doesn't mind standing up. "I get a stretch", he says.

[Allied Governments]

So move. Why are you here if you hate the country?

I'm gonna address this one in particular, but this is a general statement to all those who say "if you don't like it get out."

He's 17. A teenager. There is almost no chance he has the resources, logistics, or even legal capability to leave the country on his own. I'm not even 100% certain you can obtain a passport or immigration forms to any western nation without the consent of your parent/guardian.

I'm 23 and I certainly don't have the resources or logistics in place for immigration. Even if he wanted to, the OP does not have the capability.

So please, PLEASE stop with this argument. It's so short-sighted it's pathetic.

Furthermore, if dissent were a detriment to society the democratic model would never have taken flight. Dissent is a necessity to a healthy, free society. The drive to peacefully change the nation is a cornerstone of American thinking. Peaceful disobediance was the modus operandi of some of the United States' biggest cultural and political heroes.

So while you're entitled to your view of "Don't like it get out", please keep what I have said in mind.

He's probably an angst ridden teenager who believes he's far more mature then others his age and has the world "figured out better then them." I think him hoping to aid the democratic model was far from his mind when he wrote this rant.

[Jagalonia]

This is a valid, irrefutable argument that has not been brought up in threads prior to this.

I've often found this kind of jingoism creepy in a 1984 kind of way. Does anyone know of any other countries that have daily pledges of allegiance demanded of their citizens? Are any of them democracies?

USA is speshul.

[Hitchensland]

But ultimately who has the right to say which religions are acceptable and which are not? If the school board were to force me to remove my hat even after me claiming that it was for my religion, they would be violating their own rule, which would be violating the equal protection clause. Ultimately, they have three options. They can keep the rule, and allow everyone to make up their own religious excuses so they can use the loophole to wear hats anyway. They can ban all hats for everyone and piss off the Muslims, which is the only reason they even implemented the stupid rule in the first place. Or they can eliminate the rule entirely.

[-caotic chaos-]

In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.

I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience. I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it. I suggest students in a similar predicament to sit down, don't give in just because people tell you to. Now I may be facing some sort of disciplinary action from the school for refusing to recite a pledge; it's the land of the free and home of the brave I suppose.

Here's an excerpt from the Virginia Senate Bill 1331:

Pledge of Allegiance. Requires (i) all students to be required to learn the Pledge of Allegiance and to demonstrate such knowledge and (ii) each school board to require the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in each classroom of the school division and to ensure that an American flag is in place in each classroom. Each school board must determine the appropriate time during the school day for the recitation of the Pledge. During the Pledge of Allegiance, students must either stand and recite the Pledge while facing the flag with their right hands over their hearts or in an appropriate salute if in uniform; however, no student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds. Students who are thus exempt from reciting the Pledge must remain quietly standing or sitting at their desks while others recite the Pledge and must not make any display that disrupts or distracts others who are reciting the Pledge. School boards must provide appropriate accommodations for students who are unable to comply with these procedures due to disability. School board codes of conduct shall apply to disruptive behavior during the recitation of the Pledge in the same manner as provided for other circumstances of similar behavior. The Office of the Attorney General must intervene on behalf of local school boards and must provide legal defense of these provisions.

Here's a link to the full text.

I do apologize for the verbose nature of this post, but I felt that this community was the right place to share my plight.

are you neo-confederate? in what ways? slavery-rascism or political ideas?

[Hitchensland]

It's not about being stupid, it's about the loophole. The school doesn't have the right to define which religions are acceptable and which are not if it's going to maintain that rule.

[Jagalonia]

It's not about being stupid, it's about the loophole. The school doesn't have the right to define which religions are acceptable and which are not if it's going to maintain that rule.

The school doesn't have the right to define anything in its own context.

Its a place of learning, not redefining.

[Feazanthia]

He's probably an angst ridden teenager who believes he's far more mature then others his age and has the world "figured out better then them." I think him hoping to aid the democratic model was far from his mind when he wrote this rant.

I fail to see how this has any bearing on anything I've said. I was an angst-ridden teenager who felt I was more mature than others my age when I refused to say the pledge and, looking back, I'm rather proud of myself for standing up for my rights.

Also, bam stereotypes.

[Rostovon]

I definitely respect your right of civil disobedience and agree your dislike of the U.S. government and it's laws but do you really have to hate the flag and America itself? Those things are ideas, they are like an ideal that we as Americans should strive for. I know that the United States has never fully embodied those ideals and probably never will, but we should at least try to, rather than disowning the country.

[Hitchensland]

It's not about being stupid, it's about the loophole. The school doesn't have the right to define which religions are acceptable and which are not if it's going to maintain that rule.

The school doesn't have the right to define anything in its own context.

Its a place of learning, not redefining.

Precisely. Therefore it shouldn't have the rule at all. Either everyone can wear hats, or nobody can.

[Revoltaire]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virgi ... ._Barnette

Whatever that law is, it is clearly unconstitutional. The Supreme Court ruled in 1943 that requiring students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools was a violation of the 1th amendment and freedom of speech. Bring a copy of that ruling to the next school board meeting, speak up and see what happens.

[Occupied Deutschland]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_vs._Barnette

Whatever that law is, it is clearly unconstitutional. The Supreme Court ruled in 1943 that requiring students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools was a violation of the 1th amendment and freedom of speech. Bring a copy of that ruling to the next school board meeting, speak up and see what happens.

There IS NO REQUIREMENT!