RU Supreme Court Declares LGBTQ Activism "Extremist"

[Necroghastia]

So? That would still be imposing a values system. So do you believe countries should be governed by their values alone or not?

Yes. As long as those values are in line with sharia law. To paraphrase Henry Ford "you can have any belief as long as it's Islam."

So you don't actually believe that "their values alone" rhetoric and all statements to the contrary are hypocrisy. Got it.

What's bad about that? Particularly what's worse about that than a "NATO psyop?"

It's worse in that it's not just L.G.B.T. organizations but all organized movements across the spectrum. I.e. I am not opposed to those orgs by virtue of their agenda, but by virtue of their foreign provenance.

In the information age, the era of mass communication, you cannot seriously begrudge the borrowing of iconography. Especially something as little as an acronym and a flag, both of which came from grassroots movements anyway.

[San Lumen]

>Calls someone gay in a different thread
>Bro it's not an insult bro I'm joking bro
>Comes in here
>Anti-LGBT stance

Wow dude I'm so surprised this is a totally novel experience no one has ever pulled this trick before

I have never tried to hide who I am. Yes I am opposed to the LGBTQ movement in the Western countries, I have always opposed it and I will continue to oppose. Yes, I have supported the ruling in Uganda and I will continue to support it. Yes I support the ruling in Russia and I will continue to support it. I am not afraid of speaking out my mind. My response in the other thread was made in jest and was not a political statement, but that does not mean it invalidated some of the previous statements I made. I continue to stand by my statements. I take being called a hypocrite very seriously. I can be a lot of things, but I am not the spineless hypocrite that you are trying to paint me as.

Regarding the other responses, I am amazed by how a large majority completely failed to see my point. My whole argument was that Western values do not work in Russia and we should accept it. The modern concept of an ever increasing gender ideology is a byproduct of Western neoliberalism. And it is bold to assume that Western thoughts have no flaws, they do. I mean why do people need to celebrate something as private as sexuality? Why do you need to fly flags to show your sexuality? It is something that has been assigned to us at birth. We have no played no role in acquiring it, then why do people feel the need to depict them so openly? What is the purpose of a pride parade, apart from just celebrating sexuality? Most of these questions have no answer. But nevertheless these are part of modern Western values.

Similarly Russian values also have a lot of problematic areas which have no proper answers. But they are core parts of what defines the modern Russian society and we must respect them. It is unbecoming on our part to expect Russians to adopt our stupid values while foregoing their own indigenous values. Are these values oppressive? Yes they are. But so are Western values. It is oppressive to shame people for wanting a normal family unit with a working father and a homemaker mother looking after the children. Therefore my point was not to argue about which value is better, my point was that we should respect Russian courts for upholding Russian values, that's it.

Uganda is going to putting LGBT people to death. Why do you support that?

Someone can't change who they are and to make them second class citizens regardless of what people think is wrong. A majority though blacks should have no rights until the US passed the Civil Rights act. A majority was opposed to interracial marriage in the US when the Loving decision came down in 1967.

Why do you oppose LGBT people having equal rights? If pride parades upset you so much don't go it's that simple.

No one is being shamed for having what you call a normal family unit.

[Bovad]

Yes. As long as those values are in line with sharia law. To paraphrase Henry Ford "you can have any belief as long as it's Islam."

So you don't actually believe that "their values alone" rhetoric and all statements to the contrary are hypocrisy. Got it.

It's worse in that it's not just L.G.B.T. organizations but all organized movements across the spectrum. I.e. I am not opposed to those orgs by virtue of their agenda, but by virtue of their foreign provenance.

In the information age, the era of mass communication, you cannot seriously begrudge the borrowing of iconography. Especially something as little as an acronym and a flag, both of which came from grassroots movements anyway.

I'm not sure if you realise this yet, but he's literally just sharia alger. Possibly literally just alger.

[Necroghastia]

So you don't actually believe that "their values alone" rhetoric and all statements to the contrary are hypocrisy. Got it.

In the information age, the era of mass communication, you cannot seriously begrudge the borrowing of iconography. Especially something as little as an acronym and a flag, both of which came from grassroots movements anyway.

I'm not sure if you realise this yet, but he's literally just sharia alger. Possibly literally just alger.

Poe's law, man. It's hard to tell a lot of the time.

[Makko Oko]

The vague language of the ruling, and the broad manner in which it may be interpreted by the authorities, is quite interesting - and is what a lot of Russian commentators I follow are concerned about.

For example, it's not clear whether this would criminalize display of the rainbow flag or not. The state would have to prove that the rainbow flag is being displayed for the purposes of activism and not some other innocuous purpose, etc.

It's also not clear whether this criminalizes making any kind of declarative statement - such as "coming out" - as LGBTQ "activism".

The Russian courts may be tangled up in cases for decades to come as to what constitutes LGBTQ activism or propaganda and what doesn't.

Nuances like that aside, this of course is the final nail in the coffin of mainstream LGBTQ activism in Russia - it was already becoming quite impossible to join, organize, or fund LGBTQ advocacy organizations there starting in the 2010s, but this just cinches it.

The government likes it that broad. Saves them having to make-up shit to arrest people.

[HISPIDA]

So? That would still be imposing a values system. So do you believe countries should be governed by their values alone or not?

Yes. As long as those values are in line with sharia law. To paraphrase Henry Ford "you can have any belief as long as it's Islam."

What's bad about that? Particularly what's worse about that than a "NATO psyop?"

It's worse in that it's not just L.G.B.T. organizations but all organized movements across the spectrum. I.e. I am not opposed to those orgs by virtue of their agenda, but by virtue of their foreign provenance.

you're trying too hard. satire like yours has to be a lot more subtle: you want to reel them in and then spring it, not just unload full force all at once. lure people in with small bets, make them think you're bluffing, and then raise when they least expect it and force them to either call your bet when you have a good hand or fold.

[The Two Jerseys]

Why send thousands of men to the frontline to overwhelm the Ukrainian defenders when you could put them to better use harassing all the queers back home, am I right tovarisch?

[Washington-Columbia]

Uganda is going to putting LGBT people to death. Why do you support that?

Someone can't change who they are and to make them second class citizens regardless of what people think is wrong. A majority though blacks should have no rights until the US passed the Civil Rights act. A majority was opposed to interracial marriage in the US when the Loving decision came down in 1967.

Why do you oppose LGBT people having equal rights? If pride parades upset you so much don't go it's that simple.

No one is being shamed for having what you call a normal family unit.

I'm sure it's because of they're homophobic. Whatever anyone thinks of Pride or LGBTQIA+ Parades, just because they're "annoying" or "stupid" should never warrant an execution for such. It's not because of the children, not because of the parades. Many of their arguments aren't solid. Arresting people for telling people that people like Freddie Mercury or Alan Turing is far more oppressive than insulting a heterosexual couple, which I'm sure is very rare. And besides, Hetero couples often have it far better in income than homosexual and other Non-Straight people do. And for why people fly those banners of pride, it's to tell of their achievements. LGBTQIA+ rights were extremely restrictive for religious, historical, and political reasons, and people still face horrible treatment over, only starting to have the LGBTQIA+ Rights Train rolling very recently. Even today, there's far too many countries that would kill you for being gay. For all the bullshit Queer and Non-Heterosexual people went through, it's important to know the achievements that the LGBTQIA+ Movement crossed.

For you, Sannyamathland, I don't give a damn about the "traditional Russian values" if they're used to harm people who are queer. I don't give a damn about the Nuclear Family model. Supporting the rollback of basic human rights of LGBTQIA+ people and allowing genocide to be committed on them is something very disgusting. Besides, you're very much a hypocrite. You call LGBTQIA+ Rights "extremist gender ideologies" and you are willing to turn a blind eye to Uganda executing queer people. I should expect to be labeled a hypocrite if I support what I call and what I support.

[Valentine Z]

Why send thousands of men to the frontline to overwhelm the Ukrainian defenders when you could put them to better use harassing all the queers back home, am I right tovarisch?

On a semi-relevant note, there was this one comment I saw quite a while back mocking at the homophobes, and it went something like this (to paraphrase): At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if a capable pilot in the skies is a queer queen with nail polish controlling the joysticks. They are capable.

I believe it too in a genuinely good way. It's not only right to treat the LGBTQ+ equally with love and rights, it also makes sense logistically. Don't get me wrong, going to a war absolutely sucks regardless of persons, gender, sexual orientation, etc. Less wars, the better.

It's just more of the fact that IF a country decided to (or had to) go to a war, you have a lot more able-bodied and/or capable folks to help out, regardless of gender or sexual orientations.

[Bradfordville]

So? That would still be imposing a values system. So do you believe countries should be governed by their values alone or not?

Yes. As long as those values are in line with sharia law. To paraphrase Henry Ford "you can have any belief as long as it's Islam."

You know, I think what my country needs right now is more secularism, as opposed to replacing Christian nationalists bs with a different religion's tyrannical rule. Sharia law should only be practiced by those who consent to it. Everyone who isn't Muslim shouldn't be expected to care about what Sharia says about dealing with issues in society. We don't need it. We have a secular judicial system that not only works fine, it works better than old school Islamic jurists do.

[Bradfordville]

I have never tried to hide who I am. Yes I am opposed to the LGBTQ movement in the Western countries, I have always opposed it and I will continue to oppose. Yes, I have supported the ruling in Uganda and I will continue to support it. Yes I support the ruling in Russia and I will continue to support it. I am not afraid of speaking out my mind. My response in the other thread was made in jest and was not a political statement, but that does not mean it invalidated some of the previous statements I made. I continue to stand by my statements. I take being called a hypocrite very seriously. I can be a lot of things, but I am not the spineless hypocrite that you are trying to paint me as.

Regarding the other responses, I am amazed by how a large majority completely failed to see my point. My whole argument was that Western values do not work in Russia and we should accept it. The modern concept of an ever increasing gender ideology is a byproduct of Western neoliberalism. And it is bold to assume that Western thoughts have no flaws, they do. I mean why do people need to celebrate something as private as sexuality? Why do you need to fly flags to show your sexuality? It is something that has been assigned to us at birth. We have no played no role in acquiring it, then why do people feel the need to depict them so openly? What is the purpose of a pride parade, apart from just celebrating sexuality? Most of these questions have no answer. But nevertheless these are part of modern Western values.

Similarly Russian values also have a lot of problematic areas which have no proper answers. But they are core parts of what defines the modern Russian society and we must respect them. It is unbecoming on our part to expect Russians to adopt our stupid values while foregoing their own indigenous values. Are these values oppressive? Yes they are. But so are Western values. It is oppressive to shame people for wanting a normal family unit with a working father and a homemaker mother looking after the children. Therefore my point was not to argue about which value is better, my point was that we should respect Russian courts for upholding Russian values, that's it.

Uganda is going to putting LGBT people to death. Why do you support that?

Because when he sees a gay pride parade, he probably thinks "well goddam my man, you see I don't understand why you wanna say 'I love you' to your brother man."

[The German Crown]

I would do the exact same

[Bradfordville]

I would do the exact same

Why? Out of all the things in the world that we need to deal with, you're worried about gay people with rainbow flags?

[The German Crown]

I would do the exact same

Why? Out of all the things in the world that we need to deal with, you're worried about gay people with rainbow flags?

I just want civilization to be exactly how I want it.

[Bradfordville]

Why? Out of all the things in the world that we need to deal with, you're worried about gay people with rainbow flags?

I just want civilization to be exactly how I want it.

That's not an answer. Why does people being gay bother you?

[The German Crown]

I just want civilization to be exactly how I want it.

That's not an answer. Why does people being gay bother you?

But if we accept Gay people soon people will accept trans people as in history.
They don't trans people do.

[Bradfordville]

That's not an answer. Why does people being gay bother you?

They don't trans people do.

Huh?

[The German Crown]

They don't trans people do.

Huh?

I gave more insight when I edited my reply

[Talibanada]

Yes. As long as those values are in line with sharia law. To paraphrase Henry Ford "you can have any belief as long as it's Islam."

You know, I think what my country needs right now is more secularism, as opposed to replacing Christian nationalists bs with a different religion's tyrannical rule. Sharia law should only be practiced by those who consent to it. Everyone who isn't Muslim shouldn't be expected to care about what Sharia says about dealing with issues in society. We don't need it. We have a secular judicial system that not only works fine, it works better than old school Islamic jurists do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67608184
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67342368

^Fine examples of our secular judicial system "working fine." It is clear that the system of liberal capitalist democracy is untenable in the long term and a different approach must be tried. Islam is the perfect candidate because it endorses harsh punishments for crime and none of that "boohoo criminals have rights" shit.

Getting back on topic though, I do not condone arresting all homosexuals. But I commend the Russian government for resisting the incursion of western cultural imperialism through the backdoor that is NGOs and activist organizations.

[Second Dimetrodon Empire]

Huh?

I gave more insight when I edited my reply

Not much insight is to be had with your position.

[Burnt Calculators]

Huh.

On one hand, from a moral standpoint, I commend them.

On the other hand, this is probably not the best move politically.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

Why? Out of all the things in the world that we need to deal with, you're worried about gay people with rainbow flags?

I just want civilization to be exactly how I want it.

'Just' . Controlling everybody else's life is not 'just' a little thing.

[The German Crown]

I just want civilization to be exactly how I want it.

'Just' . Controlling everybody else's life is not 'just' a little thing.

Can't Argue with this tbh fair point

[Second Dimetrodon Empire]

Huh.

On one hand, from a moral standpoint, I commend them.

On the other hand, this is probably not the best move politically.

"Moral standpoint"

[Burnt Calculators]

Huh.

On one hand, from a moral standpoint, I commend them.

On the other hand, this is probably not the best move politically.

"Moral standpoint"

I mean, I'm not going to force my morals on anyone else, so I don't see why you should be so bothered. This really does seem like a rather dumb idea on Russia's part.