SE Turkey Quake

[El Lazaro]

While it’s nice to see that many countries have set aside their grudges for the cause of humanitarian aid and/or influence lobbying, I’m worried about what Erdogan’s going to do. He announced a three month state of emergency (or until exactly one week before elections) in regions affected by the earthquake, and it’s not bold to assume he’s going to use it to further his own power and authoritarian rule.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

While there are so many people waiting to be rescued under the rubble, the Political Islamist government has restricted internet access. Twitter won't open. This earthquake is a genocide, and its responsible is a political Islamic dictator.

[-Astoria-]

While there are so many people waiting to be rescued under the rubble, the Political Islamist government has restricted internet access. Twitter won't open.

It appears so:

Turkey earthquake: Twitter restricted across country, complicating rescue efforts

Turkey earthquake: Twitter restricted across country, complicating rescue efforts
Campaigners warn that state restrictions on Twitter could undermine communication for those in earthquake zones
By Alex MacDonald
Published date: 8 February 2023 14:37 UTC | Last update: 3 mins 7 secs ago

The Turkish government has imposed restrictions on Twitter across the country in the wake of Monday's earthquakes, provoking an outcry from campaigners that the move could hinder rescue efforts in the afflicted southeast.

Web monitoring site NetBlocks confirmed the move on Wednesday.

"Real-time network data show Twitter has been restricted in Turkey; the filtering is applied on major internet providers and comes as the public come to rely on the service in the aftermath of a series of deadly earthquakes," said the organisation in a tweet.

'This action simply adds a new layer to the already troubled situation and creates more problems for the victims and volunteers'

- Gurkan Ozturan, media campaigner

A number of users said their access to the site was completely blocked without a VPN, while others said their access had been severely slowed.

The move comes as search and rescue efforts have continued across Turkey and neighbouring Syria to find people still trapped under rubble in the wake of two deadly earthquakes.

The Turkish government regularly restricts Twitter access in the wake of disasters and incidents such as bomb attacks, supposedly as a means of countering disinformation.

In a speech on Tuesday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan warned that he would not allow "disinformation" to spread in the wake of the earthquakes and called on Turks not to listen to "provocateurs".

However, campaigners responded by arguing that social media was one of the key tools in the ongoing rescue efforts.

Gurkan Ozturan, coordinator of Media Freedom Rapid Response at the European Centre for Press and Media Freedom, told Middle East Eye that the move would just create unnecessary problems.

"Social media in this whole process has been crucial to coordinate efforts to amplify voices of the victims from under the debris and for rescue teams to detect their location and offer support, as well as [helping] humanitarian and civil society organisations to raise donations," he said.

"This action simply adds a new layer to the already troubled situation and creates more problems for the victims and volunteers, as well as those who are trying to hear from their loved ones from the impacted cities."

He added that it would force those in the earthquake-impacted areas to use VPNs, which would "drain the batteries of the devices and waste the much-needed energy in an area of scarcity".

[Minoa]

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/64568826

Erdogan has to go. He claims that it was impossible to prepare for disasters this big, but perhaps he should have looked at how Japan has at least been trying to reduce the impact of such disasters. And don't get me started on the corruption.

To make matters worse, Syria's Assad government has shown no hesitation in using aid as a weapon against the opposition.

[San Lumen]

https://apnews.com/article/science-turk ... 0b06601d3a

Death toll now nearly 12000

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Source: https://www.sozcu.com.tr/2023/gundem/er ... _surmanset

Erdoğan called the Turkish people dishonest and honorable.

[The North Polish Union]

While it’s nice to see that many countries have set aside their grudges for the cause of humanitarian aid

Turkey certainly hasn't though because...

I’m worried about what Erdogan’s going to do.

Worry no longer!

Turkey shells Syria’s north despite devastating earthquake

[Minoa]

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64568254

The Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC) has decided that there will be an appeal for the earthquake, mainly in the context of the dire humanitarian situation in Syria, ravaged by over a decade of civil war.

This is on top of the ongoing appeals for Pakistan (floods) and Ukraine (war).

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

While it’s nice to see that many countries have set aside their grudges for the cause of humanitarian aid

Turkey certainly hasn't though because...

I’m worried about what Erdogan’s going to do.

Worry no longer!

Turkey shells Syria’s north despite devastating earthquake

With the money they stole from the earthquake tax, they are launching missiles on Syrian territory. Indeed, this would befit political Islamists. I want the money to be used for the Turkish nation. not the launching of missiles into the Arabian deserts.

[Costa Fierro]

It’s expensive to build reinforced foundations and joints that can absorb the energy of the shaking, we don’t even mandate it in some regions of the US that are quite vulnerable to earthquakes. Even reinforced buildings can suffer damage with quakes of this size, though.

Yes and no.

Buildings can be made to withstand large earthquakes both through good quality and the right kind of building materials (wood is very flexible and steel framing can also be seismically resistant), the right building codes, and proper reinforcement. Reinforced buildings may suffer damage, sure, but it will likely not become structurally compromising or, indeed as Japan, New Zealand, and other countries with well enforced building codes (although NZ did have some problems in 2016) have shown, suffer no damage at all.

What Turkey has is a problem not so much with access to building materials, because Turkey isn't poor by global standards, but a lack of proper enforcement and corruption, particularly at local government level. Hence why thousands of buildings, many of which have likely been built within the last two decades (Turkey had a big property boom in the late 2000's IIRC) but have not been built to code.

Syria, on the other hand, even before the war, was a lot less wealthy than Turkey and also had a lot less experience in dealing with large earthquakes. As a result, their building codes are practically non-existent.

[Australian rePublic]

That's just terrible. I hope the victims a speedy recovery, and rest in peace to those who died

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

What is the story of this special communication tax people paid?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64566296

Anger is also mounting over an "earthquake tax" levied by the Turkish government in the wake of a massive quake in 1999 that killed more than 17,000 people.

The estimated 88bn lira ($4.6bn; £3.8bn) was meant to have been spent on disaster prevention and the development of emergency services.

Questions about the "special communication tax" - as the authorities call it - are asked every time there is an earthquake in Turkey. But the government has never publicly explained how the money is spent.

And Mr Kilicdaroglu said Mr Erdogan's government "has not prepared for an earthquake for 20 years".

[San Lumen]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/nyc- ... -rcna69869

NYC family among the victims of the earthquake in Turkey, relative says
A relative told local TV station WPIX that her sister, her husband and their two young children had left their home in Corona, Queens to visit the husband’s family. They were on the top floor of a five-story building that collapsed after the earthquake struck, she said.

[Bahrimontagn]

Political Islam still continues to kill our people. It is predetermined scientific principles, not mythological hopes, that save lives. Their so-called religious brothers did not make statements as quickly as Armenia and Greece. Those who want to look for real friends will look at the Balkans and the Caucasus, not the Arab countries. According to the latest news, 912 people died

https://www.sozcu.com.tr/2023/gundem/kahramanmarasta-7-4-siddetinde-deprem-7581264/

You really do use any excuse to bash Islam lmao

[Portzania]

Political Islam still continues to kill our people. It is predetermined scientific principles, not mythological hopes, that save lives. Their so-called religious brothers did not make statements as quickly as Armenia and Greece. Those who want to look for real friends will look at the Balkans and the Caucasus, not the Arab countries. According to the latest news, 912 people died

https://www.sozcu.com.tr/2023/gundem/kahramanmarasta-7-4-siddetinde-deprem-7581264/

You really do use any excuse to bash Islam lmao

They're an atheist hiding under a cloak of secularism tbh, completely blowing religion out of proportion acting like its the sole reason thousands are dying, but not because of the earthquake in question

[San Lumen]

You really do use any excuse to bash Islam lmao

They're an atheist hiding under a cloak of secularism tbh, completely blowing religion out of proportion acting like its the sole reason thousands are dying, but not because of the earthquake in question

Totally and completely inappropriate on their part to use their atheism to bash Islam in response to one of the deadliest and most devastating earthquakes in years.

[Scots-Rhodesia]

Political Islam still continues to kill our people. It is predetermined scientific principles, not mythological hopes, that save lives. Their so-called religious brothers did not make statements as quickly as Armenia and Greece. Those who want to look for real friends will look at the Balkans and the Caucasus, not the Arab countries. According to the latest news, 912 people died

https://www.sozcu.com.tr/2023/gundem/kahramanmarasta-7-4-siddetinde-deprem-7581264/

You really do use any excuse to bash Islam lmao

Political Islam and Islam are not the same thing

[Utquiagvik]

They're an atheist hiding under a cloak of secularism tbh, completely blowing religion out of proportion acting like its the sole reason thousands are dying, but not because of the earthquake in question

Totally and completely inappropriate on their part to use their atheism to bash Islam in response to one of the deadliest and most devastating earthquakes in years.

20,000 people are dead, and thousands more lie in the rubble undiscovered, while Hakinda uses it for their religious argument. This isn’t a “Genocide” as they are trying to claim, its an earthquake. A brutally destructive earthquake.

[Bahrimontagn]

You really do use any excuse to bash Islam lmao

Political Islam and Islam are not the same thing

While that is true, It is common for Hakinda to use any excuse to bash religion.

[Durius]

Totally and completely inappropriate on their part to use their atheism to bash Islam in response to one of the deadliest and most devastating earthquakes in years.

20,000 people are dead, and thousands more lie in the rubble undiscovered, while Hakinda uses it for their religious argument. This isn’t a “Genocide” as they are trying to claim, its an earthquake. A brutally destructive earthquake.

Maybe, but the argument that Erdogan spent years building mosques rather than preparing the country for a new earthquake and now thousands of people are dead because of it is more than valid.

[Portzania]

20,000 people are dead, and thousands more lie in the rubble undiscovered, while Hakinda uses it for their religious argument. This isn’t a “Genocide” as they are trying to claim, its an earthquake. A brutally destructive earthquake.

Maybe, but the argument that Erdogan spent years building mosques rather than preparing the country for a new earthquake and now thousands of people are dead because of it is more than valid.

Although that is frankly idiotic of Erdogan (its Erdogan), I still wouldn't compare that to a genocide in any single comprehensible way

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

You really do use any excuse to bash Islam lmao

Political Islam and Islam are not the same thing

Finally someone understood me, just like that, political Islam is not a religion but a crime. There are Muslims who live their religion according to the rules of the secular system, and they must be protected within the framework of "freedom of belief".

Political Islam and Islam are not the same thing

While that is true, It is common for Hakinda to use any excuse to bash religion.

As a humanist who follows the path of reason and science, I choose the path of modernity. Turkish enemies suddenly became ardent defenders of erdoganism. The Independence Court will be re-established, that trial will be held !

[Portzania]

Political Islam and Islam are not the same thing

Finally someone understood me, just like that, political Islam is not a religion but a crime. There are Muslims who live their religion according to the rules of the secular system, and they must be protected within the framework of "freedom of belief".

While that is true, It is common for Hakinda to use any excuse to bash religion.

As a humanist who follows the path of reason and science, I choose the path of modernity. Turkish enemies suddenly became ardent defenders of erdoganism. The Independence Court will be re-established, that trial will be held !

no one is defending erdoganism...

[Senkaku]

Totally and completely inappropriate on their part to use their atheism to bash Islam in response to one of the deadliest and most devastating earthquakes in years.

20,000 people are dead, and thousands more lie in the rubble undiscovered, while Hakinda uses it for their religious argument. This isn’t a “Genocide” as they are trying to claim, its an earthquake. A brutally destructive earthquake.

I mean, the systematic acceptance of bribes in exchange for relaxation of building codes and the funneling of the resulting money into political priorities of his party seem pretty bad, as does mandating turning on mosque loudspeakers while rescuers are trying to dig people out of the rubble or disabling social networks used for emergency communication or bombarding nearby regions also suffering from the disaster. The earthquake was certainly destructive, but it was not destructive enough that it should have left an entire region basically flattened in a stable upper-middle-income country with a modern industrial base. "Genocide" may be hyperbole or off the mark, but all disasters with large death tolls are in part man-made as well, and the role played by Erdogan and the AKP here certainly seems to be both creator and exacerbator of the situation. They're not making a religious argument, either, they're arguing that political Islamism is having a bad effect on Turkey and more specifically that Erdogan's simultaneous drifts away from secularism and towards more authoritarian/personalist governance has influenced the course of events here negatively, the former of which is debatable but the latter of which seems almost indisputable.

[Shrillland]

20,000 people are dead, and thousands more lie in the rubble undiscovered, while Hakinda uses it for their religious argument. This isn’t a “Genocide” as they are trying to claim, its an earthquake. A brutally destructive earthquake.

I mean, the systematic acceptance of bribes in exchange for relaxation of building codes and the funneling of the resulting money into political priorities of his party seem pretty bad, as does mandating turning on mosque loudspeakers while rescuers are trying to dig people out of the rubble or disabling social networks used for emergency communication or bombarding nearby regions also suffering from the disaster. The earthquake was certainly destructive, but it was not destructive enough that it should have left an entire region basically flattened in a stable upper-middle-income country with a modern industrial base. "Genocide" may be hyperbole or off the mark, but all disasters with large death tolls are in part man-made as well, and the role played by Erdogan and the AKP here certainly seems to be both creator and exacerbator of the situation.

Well, things might change soon. This isn't the place for too general a political debate, but I will say just this and then I'm done.

Erdogan's actually quite nervous, and mismanagement like what we're seeing doesn't really help him in AKP's and MHP's heartlands. The election's coming up in May(yes, I'll have a thread for it sometime in March if somebody else doesn't do it before then), and Erdogan, for the first time in a long time, actually has a serious shot at losing. He's only ahead of the CHP/Iyi Bloc by five points, and that may go down further depending on disaster response and who the CHP/Iyi group chooses.