The Problem With Alcohol

[Floofybit]

:meh: the internet has ruined me and I can't tell what's satire anymore. Algerstonia's presence already makes it seem like bait but hey I'm just saying if our biggest problem is the aluminum can of fermented and distilled barley then we obviously do not have enough problems. I do think the "live and let live" is sound enough as you cannot just keep legislating things to make people do the right thing for themselves. What about obesity? Just ban McDonald's? Ban high calorie foods? There's just no way of really legislating good behavior, someone will kill themselves with their poor dietary choices somehow (or other choices). I could concede with maybe hard liquor but not alcohol entirely.


(sat here for 10 minutes hoping im not posting on a bait thread)

This isn't satire. Something needs to be done to crack down on alcohol consumption, just don't know what

[Sky Reavers]

This isn't satire. Something needs to be done to crack down on alcohol consumption, just don't know what

Maybe there is no need to crack down on alcohol consumption, as it might not be worth it.

[Thermodolia]

Every year, 5% of deaths are attributed to alcohol. Alcohol can be a deadly substance that can have harmful affects to your brain, liver, and many other vital organs. Alcoholics and alcohol abusers are much more likely to get divorced, have problems with domestic violence, struggle with unemployment, and live in poverty.

So what do we do? Is it really much of a problem? Well, I'd say the 1 in 12 Americans who have an alcohol addiction would say yes. The nearly 400 people who die a day in the United States alone would say yes. The ten thousand people who died in drunk driving accidents would say yes.

So how do we stop it? We can't "live and let live" because all that does is live and let other people die. Can we ban it? We all know very well of the gang violence in the prohibition days, but it law enforcement advanced enough to put a stop to it? Or do we need larger law enforcement to crack down on alcohol abuse? Obviously, this isn't a matter of, "my friend only drinks once a week, it shouldn't be banned because she can moderate." No, we need to do something about it. But what?

Personally, I like the option of banning it and upping law enforcement. However, I'm not entirely sure. What do you think?

Remember, this thread is about alcohol. Deal with alcohol now and we can talk about drugs in another thread. And finally, site rules apply, I don't want anyone to get warned.

You can’t separate alcohol and drugs because the enforcement of them is the same.

And it’s clearly that banning alcohol won’t work just as banning drugs hasn’t worked.

Look the solution isn’t to ban things but to provide free or low cost rehabilitation and to not punish those who go to rehab facilities. These days if you admit to seeking help for addiction you can still lose your job if you happen to be in law enforcement, emergency services, the military, and other jobs that require a security clearance. That doesn’t help anyone and actively undermines attempting to get people help.

So instead of banning things and cracking down on people (which as clearly not worked) why don’t you help them?

[Floofybit]

This isn't satire. Something needs to be done to crack down on alcohol consumption, just don't know what

Maybe there is no need to crack down on alcohol consumption, as it might not be worth it.

I guess if outright banning alcohol won't work, something similar to this might...

I'd be in favor of a "one-strike" policy where if you get caught driving over the limit once, your driver's license gets taken away from you permanently.

Edit: wait... You're the person who said the quote in my sig!

[Thermodolia]

Prohibition in and of itself does not work and I do not think that it is practical to completely ban alcohol: there is a reason why cannabis is being legalized in many places nowadays, even if law enforcement can theoretically enforce such a ban, and that is because people will always find ways to get around any prohibition against making, selling, and consuming drugs. If alcohol is prohibited, we'd probably see a repeat of smugglers, speakeasies, and dangerous alcohol that was seen during prohibition.

That being said, I'd be in favor of dramatically lowering the BAC limit to 0.00 for all drivers, not least because the province where I live has one of the highest rates of drunk-driving in Canada, and I'd be in favor of a "one-strike" policy where if you get caught driving over the limit once, your driver's license gets taken away from you permanently.

That’s also stupid as you are effectively killing the poor with such a policy.

Public transportation is not anywhere near good enough to support that kind of policy. And if you do take the license away permanently you’ll just end up with rising crime as you’ll have poor people who can’t afford to get to work resorting to committing crimes to survive or they’ll attempt to get government support which will cause a strain.

Again the solution isn’t punitive punishment but compassionate care via low cost or free rehabilitation. So instead of effectively sending a poor person to death for drunk driving you send them to a rehab center because clearly the drinking problem is to the point that they need help.

[North Korea Choson]

Alcohol is f*cking addictive!! That is the problem!

[FNU]

The problem with banning alcohol is that no matter how many people you pay to enforce the law, the only thing that really matters is the people follow the law, and what makes you think people would willingly throw away their right to drink? Hell, we all saw how it went last time.

Even if you ban the production and sale of it, people are smart enough to throw yeast, fruit juice, and sugar into a jar for a while. Any attempt to ban Alcohol will end how it did last time. Failure.

[Forsher]

So how do we stop it? We can't "live and let live" because all that does is live and let other people die. Can we ban it? We all know very well of the gang violence in the prohibition days, but it law enforcement advanced enough to put a stop to it? Or do we need larger law enforcement to crack down on alcohol abuse? Obviously, this isn't a matter of, "my friend only drinks once a week, it shouldn't be banned because she can moderate." No, we need to do something about it. But what?

• If someone needs chemical aids to be fun or be interesting, then they are boring. No ifs, no buts.
• If someone feels like they need chemical aids to be fun or be interesting, then they need therapy. No ifs, no buts.
• If someone feels like other people need chemical aids to be fun or interesting, then they are probably both boring and in need of therapy. Obviously some ifs and buts.

Now, while addressing the ideology of alcohol is probably quite an important thing to do, we already know what actually works. You want people to stop doing something, ban advertising for it and tax it.

Cost of living: The young people saving money by going sober

Also, fuck the phrase "sober curious". The choice is to drink, not to not drink. Sober curious, in other words, is a phrase that is deeply rooted in the ideology of alcohol.

[Thermodolia]

Maybe there is no need to crack down on alcohol consumption, as it might not be worth it.

I guess if outright banning alcohol won't work, something similar to this might...

I'd be in favor of a "one-strike" policy where if you get caught driving over the limit once, your driver's license gets taken away from you permanently.

Edit: wait... You're the person who said the quote in my sig!

Again you are just condemning poor people and those who can’t afford an Uber or someone to drive them to a life of suffering as I pointed out here:

Prohibition in and of itself does not work and I do not think that it is practical to completely ban alcohol: there is a reason why cannabis is being legalized in many places nowadays, even if law enforcement can theoretically enforce such a ban, and that is because people will always find ways to get around any prohibition against making, selling, and consuming drugs. If alcohol is prohibited, we'd probably see a repeat of smugglers, speakeasies, and dangerous alcohol that was seen during prohibition.

That being said, I'd be in favor of dramatically lowering the BAC limit to 0.00 for all drivers, not least because the province where I live has one of the highest rates of drunk-driving in Canada, and I'd be in favor of a "one-strike" policy where if you get caught driving over the limit once, your driver's license gets taken away from you permanently.

That’s also stupid as you are effectively killing the poor with such a policy.

Public transportation is not anywhere near good enough to support that kind of policy. And if you do take the license away permanently you’ll just end up with rising crime as you’ll have poor people who can’t afford to get to work resorting to committing crimes to survive or they’ll attempt to get government support which will cause a strain.

Again the solution isn’t punitive punishment but compassionate care via low cost or free rehabilitation. So instead of effectively sending a poor person to death for drunk driving you send them to a rehab center because clearly the drinking problem is to the point that they need help.

I get that bloodlust is something that a lot of people want but punishing everyone so severely isn’t going to lead to less drunk drivers it’s going to lead to a crashing economy

[Sky Reavers]

There should also be alternatives to alcohol. Some folks turn to it, when they got problems. Taxing alcohol could deter some people from it, but there is a sort of people, who are like father from a Russian joke :

"Father: Vodka became more expesnive.
Vovochka: So, you'll drink less?
Father: No, you'll eat less."

Then again, there will be folks, who will resort to colognes, tinctures and other sorts of "social brandy"

[Thermodolia]

There should also be alternatives to alcohol. Some folks turn to it, when they got problems.

And helping people turn to safer alternatives should be the goal. For example I myself eat chocolate and coffee by the boat load as it helps replace what alcohol did.

I’m currently in recovery (2 years sober) and even I think banning alcohol and permanently banning people from driving if they are caught driving drunk is the most stupid thing ever

[FNU]

There should also be alternatives to alcohol. Some folks turn to it, when they got problems. Taxing alcohol could deter some people from it, but there is a sort of people, who are like father from a Russian joke :

"Father: Vodka became more expesnive.
Vovochka: So, you'll drink less?
Father: No, you'll eat less."

Then again, there will be folks, who will resort to colognes, tinctures and other sorts of "social brandy"

Not to mention the sudden spike in sales of Welch's Grape Juice.

[Thermodolia]

There should also be alternatives to alcohol. Some folks turn to it, when they got problems. Taxing alcohol could deter some people from it, but there is a sort of people, who are like father from a Russian joke :

"Father: Vodka became more expesnive.
Vovochka: So, you'll drink less?
Father: No, you'll eat less."

Then again, there will be folks, who will resort to colognes, tinctures and other sorts of "social brandy"

Not to mention the sudden spike in sales of Welch's Grape Juice.

And a surge in yeast and sugar sales

Maybe we should just help people who are addicted instead of punishing those who aren’t?

[Sky Reavers]

And helping people turn to safer alternatives should be the goal. For example I myself eat chocolate and coffee by the boat load as it helps replace what alcohol did.

I’m currently in recovery (2 years sober) and even I think banning alcohol and permanently banning people from driving if they are caught driving drunk is the most stupid thing ever

Still, there should be something done about drunk driving. Maybe, punish with some really unpleasant proccess, won't have permanent consequences, but won't be a vacation either.

[Vikanias]

Americans did it in the prohibition, rise in crime, people still drank booze secretly whenever they could

The war on the drugs, if anything was a complete disaster, caused drug use to not wind down or stagnate, it skyrocketed.

I don’t really think outright banning alcohol will solve deaths contributed to it, people will move on to more to much more dangerous substances to replace the feeling they got from alcohol. Addiction is called that for a reason, it’s hard to drop. We should prioritize keeping it legal but helping alcoholics with rehabilitation with funding, phasing out the hard use of alcohol is a costlier, but better endeavour than banning it outright.

[Thermodolia]

And helping people turn to safer alternatives should be the goal. For example I myself eat chocolate and coffee by the boat load as it helps replace what alcohol did.

I’m currently in recovery (2 years sober) and even I think banning alcohol and permanently banning people from driving if they are caught driving drunk is the most stupid thing ever

Still, there should be something done about drunk driving. Maybe, punish with some really unpleasant proccess, won't have permanent consequences, but won't be a vacation either.

Sure but I’m of the mind that drunk driving should send you to in person rehab (funded by the government) for 3 to 6 months. So if you drive drunk you get rehab as clearly you aren’t able to handle moderating your alcohol usage if you’re driving drunk.

And rehab ain’t a cake walk.

Now that’s if you are just by yourself with no children in the car and didn’t get into an accident. If either of those happen then it’s jail time then rehab.

Killing someone while drunk: prison time for a long while

[Elwher]

Every year, 5% of deaths are attributed to alcohol. Alcohol can be a deadly substance that can have harmful affects to your brain, liver, and many other vital organs. Alcoholics and alcohol abusers are much more likely to get divorced, have problems with domestic violence, struggle with unemployment, and live in poverty.

So what do we do? Is it really much of a problem? Well, I'd say the 1 in 12 Americans who have an alcohol addiction would say yes. The nearly 400 people who die a day in the United States alone would say yes. The ten thousand people who died in drunk driving accidents would say yes.

So how do we stop it? We can't "live and let live" because all that does is live and let other people die. Can we ban it? We all know very well of the gang violence in the prohibition days, but it law enforcement advanced enough to put a stop to it? Or do we need larger law enforcement to crack down on alcohol abuse? Obviously, this isn't a matter of, "my friend only drinks once a week, it shouldn't be banned because she can moderate." No, we need to do something about it. But what?

Personally, I like the option of banning it and upping law enforcement. However, I'm not entirely sure. What do you think?

Remember, this thread is about alcohol. Deal with alcohol now and we can talk about drugs in another thread. And finally, site rules apply, I don't want anyone to get warned.

My body, My self. Just as people should have the right to take unwanted things out of their bodies, they should have the right to put wanted things into them.

Education is the answer to the problem, people need to be taught the results of overconsumption and then be let to make their own decisions.

Drunk driving, however, is another problem. The first offense should be a one-year suspension of license, the second three years, third permanent revocation. If it causes injury to another person, it should be considered assault and if it leads to a death, murder.

[Thermodolia]

Every year, 5% of deaths are attributed to alcohol. Alcohol can be a deadly substance that can have harmful affects to your brain, liver, and many other vital organs. Alcoholics and alcohol abusers are much more likely to get divorced, have problems with domestic violence, struggle with unemployment, and live in poverty.

So what do we do? Is it really much of a problem? Well, I'd say the 1 in 12 Americans who have an alcohol addiction would say yes. The nearly 400 people who die a day in the United States alone would say yes. The ten thousand people who died in drunk driving accidents would say yes.

So how do we stop it? We can't "live and let live" because all that does is live and let other people die. Can we ban it? We all know very well of the gang violence in the prohibition days, but it law enforcement advanced enough to put a stop to it? Or do we need larger law enforcement to crack down on alcohol abuse? Obviously, this isn't a matter of, "my friend only drinks once a week, it shouldn't be banned because she can moderate." No, we need to do something about it. But what?

Personally, I like the option of banning it and upping law enforcement. However, I'm not entirely sure. What do you think?

Remember, this thread is about alcohol. Deal with alcohol now and we can talk about drugs in another thread. And finally, site rules apply, I don't want anyone to get warned.

My body, My self. Just as people should have the right to take unwanted things out of their bodies, they should have the right to put wanted things into them.

Education is the answer to the problem, people need to be taught the results of overconsumption and then be let to make their own decisions.

Drunk driving, however, is another problem. The first offense should be a one-year suspension of license, the second three years, third permanent revocation. If it causes injury to another person, it should be considered assault and if it leads to a death, murder.

Personally I think the first offense should be 6 months or more of intensive in person rehab.

Because the one year suspension from driving is standard and clearly hasn’t caused rates to drop. So instead we should maybe start focusing on treatment for addiction instead of just punishment.

And rehab centers aren’t walks in the park

[Dumb Ideologies]

Alcohol use is widespread enough and normalised enough in society (moreso than where there were previous attempts at prohibition) that any ban would be political suicide.

Properly funding rehab facilities with compulsion and restrictions on freedom to leave in severe cases (funded through taxation or part/total social ownership) is about the horizon of feasibility even under an ideal regime. Restrictions on advertising and sponsorships might have a small impact in the current system.

Sometimes things just have bad health/social outcomes that it isn't possible to fully mitigate. There's not always a complete solution to social problems.

[Dayganistan]

Banning alcohol is impossible and it's something we kind of have to live with. However, I think what could be done is more properly educating younger generations on how harmful alcohol can be like we've done with smoking and we'd probably see a decrease in alcohol consumption over time like has been seen with smoking.

[Sannyamathland]

People who drink alcohol are all well aware of the harmful consequences of alcohol and in spite of that choose to consume it. They are perfectly responsible for any harm it causes to their bodies. This includes people like me who consume alcohol on a regular basis. We do not want the government or any other third parties to tell us things we already know. So, until and unless we are being a nuisance to the larger society, the government has no right to interfere with whatever we choose to do with ourselves and our health. Let me drink my beer in peace.

[Great Kauthar]

In Western states, prohibition of alcohol would be tough to enforce but restricting access to it would be a great first step. It has a devastating effect on the individuals who drink it, the women and children in their lives, and on working class communities in general.

[Luziyca]

That being said, I'd be in favor of dramatically lowering the BAC limit to 0.00 for all drivers, not least because the province where I live has one of the highest rates of drunk-driving in Canada, and I'd be in favor of a "one-strike" policy where if you get caught driving over the limit once, your driver's license gets taken away from you permanently.

This actually sounds like a really good solution

It would, given it is far more practical than just banning alcohol outright: people do like to drink, and while it wouldn't completely eliminate alcohol-induced deaths, it would vastly reduce the number of drunk drivers on the road, while ensuring that those who want to drink can still drink.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

It was downright irresponsible for a celebrity like Jesus to promote alcohol.

[Kerwa]

Banning it doesn’t work; even in Saudi you can get booze. And it creates a whole set of derivative problems anyway.

If you really are serious about reducing it, then you should try and get it folded under some sort of ESG platform. In other words investment funds that preferentially invest in firms with zero tolerance policies for drug and alcohol use. If it catches on the social pressures will be enough to force significant consumption reduction.

Of course you’d have to persuade the drug addicts on wall street first, which might be a hurdle.

Naturally ending the education systems habit of medicating problems away (both officially and unofficially) would also be a big step towards responsible consumption as well. But I don’t see that happening either.