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The Dilemma of Edward Snowden

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is Edward Snowden is a traitor to the US?

No
24
62%
Yes
8
21%
I don't know
7
18%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 39

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The Gas Kussolova
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The Dilemma of Edward Snowden

Postby The Gas Kussolova » Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:39 pm

In 2013, a contractor working for the National Security Agency (NSA) travelled from Hawaii to Hong Kong to meet with British journalists from the Guardian. He presented to the journalists hard evidence that exposed a highly intrusive and far-reaching electronic surveillance program that was being utilized by the United States Intelligence Community, ostensibly for counter-terrorism reasons. The story quickly caused a lot of controversy as it was quickly picked up by mainstream news outlets throughout the world. The Obama administration attempted to have Edward Snowden extradited to the United States to face criminal charges, but Snowden ultimately escaped to Russia where he and his girlfriend were granted asylum.

From this point on, Snowden became a highly polarizing figure. Some people hated him and viewed him as a traitor because he exposed a surveillance program that was being used for national security purposes, while others loved him because the program he exposed was technically illegal and was being used to spy on hundreds of millions of people throughout the world, the overwhelming majority of whom had nothing to do with terrorism at all. While Snowden did expose a large, illegal electronic surveillance program that was being used to spy on an extremely large number of innocent people without their knowledge or consent, there is some question on what Snowden's motives were.

Snowden claims that he "blew the whistle" on the illegal surveillance program out of a sense of patriotism and civic duty, and that he really had no choice because his internal complaints about it to the higher ups went ignored. Others, however, are more skeptical due to rumors that he had cooperated with Chinese and Russian intelligence agents while in Hong Kong, and he ultimately took refuge in Russia. Snowden has claimed that he originally intended to seek asylum in Latin America, but was stopped in Moscow because the United States revoked his passport so he couldn't board his connecting flight to Cuba, trapping him in Russia and forcing him to seek asylum there. Other sources, however, claim that Snowden had planned to seek asylum in Russia all along.

While Snowden has extensively condemned the invasions of privacy committed by the American, British, and Australian governments, he has been relatively silent on abuses committed by the Russian government and has said nothing about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Furthermore, he was recently gifted Russian citizenship by Vladimir Putin and swore his allegiance to the Russian Federation up receiving his Russian passport.

What are your thoughts on Edward Snowden? Is he a hero who exposed an illegal surveillance program out of a sense of patriotism? Or is he a traitor who was just helping the Russians and Chinese?

I honestly am not sure what to think of him. He did a good thing by exposing the illegal surveillance program, but the allegations that he was actively cooperating with Chinese and Russian intelligence are certainly unsettling. On the other hand, his apparent loyalty to Russia now and his refusal to condemn Russia's poor human rights and privacy record could be explained by him simply trying to keep himself and his family (his wife and two kids) out of trouble. Needless to say, I am conflicted.

What do you say?

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Free Algerstonia
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Postby Free Algerstonia » Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:48 pm

edward snowden was killed by the fsb working in coordination with the cia, the current "edward snowden" communications are actually communications from an fsb agent
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The Gas Kussolova
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Postby The Gas Kussolova » Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:05 pm

Free Algerstonia wrote:edward snowden was killed by the fsb working in coordination with the cia, the current "edward snowden" communications are actually communications from an fsb agent


What makes you think that?

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Sordhau
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Postby Sordhau » Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:18 pm

The Gas Kussolova wrote:
Free Algerstonia wrote:edward snowden was killed by the fsb working in coordination with the cia, the current "edward snowden" communications are actually communications from an fsb agent


What makes you think that?


Free Algerstonia is a shitposter. He's just shitposting; don't take what he says seriously.
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The Gas Kussolova
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Postby The Gas Kussolova » Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:20 pm

Sordhau wrote:
The Gas Kussolova wrote:
What makes you think that?


Free Algerstonia is a shitposter. He's just shitposting; don't take what he says seriously.


Oh okay.

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Free Algerstonia
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Postby Free Algerstonia » Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:24 pm

Sordhau wrote:
The Gas Kussolova wrote:
What makes you think that?


Free Algerstonia is a shitposter. He's just shitposting; don't take what he says seriously.

i hate shitposting and shitposters, but i love you
Last edited by Free Algerstonia on Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Z

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Washington-Columbia
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Postby Washington-Columbia » Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:57 pm

I'm not calling Edward Snowden not a traitor entirely, but I'm sure that publicly exposing Mass surveillance programs from the NSA shouldn't get you considered a traitor. Yes, I don't have a lot of patience for those who defend or deny Russian Atrocities (that's a story for another post) but I don't know much of the context surrounding Edward defending these acts and He could appear to deny these acts on the outside, but on the inside, He acknowledges these atrocities and is against it, but keeps it a secret to avoid being deported.


In short, I don't consider Edward Snowden a Traitor.
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Postby Page » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:30 am

What the hell is Snowden supposed to do? Scream "Putin is a bastard!" from the rooftops and get deported back to the US and thrown in prison? Snowden keeps his mouth shut about Russian atrocities because he has to.
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Charrou
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Postby Charrou » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:33 am

He is a traitor to his country and a Russian propagandist. No different from the Rosenbergs.
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Postby Suriyanakhon » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:55 am

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The Gas Kussolova wrote:Furthermore, he was recently gifted Russian citizenship by Vladimir Putin and swore his allegiance to the Russian Federation up receiving his Russian passport.


That's literally a normal part of the naturalization process of any country, people who become citizens of a place are expected to be loyal to it and swear to as such.
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Perikuresu
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Postby Perikuresu » Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:08 am

Edward Snowden did the public a service by exposing a really shady and illegal surveillance program the American government was doing on them (without them knowing about it), and he was basically backed into a corner where:

1- American government wants his ass
2- He's stateless
3- Most countries will extradite him to America the moment he arrives at their doorstep

So basically, Russia is his only chance at being safe and if he wants to retain that he's gonna have to appease the Russians whether he wants to or not. I don't blame Snowden for the actions he took.
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Port Caverton
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Postby Port Caverton » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:24 am

Hopefully he becomes a Gitmo inmate in the foreseeable future.
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:49 am

Perikuresu wrote:Edward Snowden did the public a service by exposing a really shady and illegal surveillance program the American government was doing on them (without them knowing about it), and he was basically backed into a corner where:

1- American government wants his ass
2- He's stateless
3- Most countries will extradite him to America the moment he arrives at their doorstep

So basically, Russia is his only chance at being safe and if he wants to retain that he's gonna have to appease the Russians whether he wants to or not. I don't blame Snowden for the actions he took.

He was not stateless, and he made bad decisions.
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The Gas Kussolova
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Postby The Gas Kussolova » Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:30 pm

Port Caverton wrote:Hopefully he becomes a Gitmo inmate in the foreseeable future.


why?

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Postby Ethel mermania » Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:55 pm

Charrou wrote:He is a traitor to his country and a Russian propagandist. No different from the Rosenbergs.

He didn't give atomic secrets to the soviets.
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Sordhau
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Postby Sordhau » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:09 pm

The Gas Kussolova wrote:
Port Caverton wrote:Hopefully he becomes a Gitmo inmate in the foreseeable future.


why?


PC is an unironic Neolib and proud supporter of the American Empire, making his cryptofascist tendencies quite obvious as a consequence.
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Port Caverton
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Postby Port Caverton » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:15 pm

Sordhau wrote:
The Gas Kussolova wrote:
why?


PC is an unironic Neolib and proud supporter of the American Empire, making his cryptofascist tendencies quite obvious as a consequence.

:rofl: Have you considered a career in comedy?
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Postby Rusozak » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:19 pm

Port Caverton wrote:Hopefully he becomes a Gitmo inmate in the foreseeable future.


What's with you and sending people to Gitmo?
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Port Caverton
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Postby Port Caverton » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:22 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Port Caverton wrote:Hopefully he becomes a Gitmo inmate in the foreseeable future.


What's with you and sending people to Gitmo?

I browsed r/neoconnwo for too long.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:26 pm

People assume there isn’t a way to tell people something isn’t right.

Snowden didn’t go through proper channels.

If he had simply reported spying was gong on and this is the program, etc., he would have been treated as a whistle blower.

The fact he present procedures and tactics fell under the espionage act.

Snowden isn’t something to be admired.
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Postby Vistulange » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:43 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:People assume there isn’t a way to tell people something isn’t right.

Snowden didn’t go through proper channels.

If he had simply reported spying was gong on and this is the program, etc., he would have been treated as a whistle blower.

The fact he present procedures and tactics fell under the espionage act.

Snowden isn’t something to be admired.

I believe the common understanding is that established whistleblower channels are useless, or used not to improve the organisation but instead to sweep problems under the rug without really addressing them.

I'm not sure how much I agree—or, for that matter, how appropriate it is to judge them in general, as opposed to a case-by-case basis—but it is my understanding regarding a common defence of Snowden's actions.

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Kalivyah
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Postby Kalivyah » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:47 pm

By definition he certainly is. That doesn't mean I don't sympathize with him.
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Postby Kurdistan 2022 rp » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:53 pm

Free Algerstonia wrote:
Sordhau wrote:
Free Algerstonia is a shitposter. He's just shitposting; don't take what he says seriously.

i hate shitposting and shitposters, but i love you

Sordhau x free algerstonia????

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Sordhau
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Postby Sordhau » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:22 pm

Kurdistan 2022 rp wrote:
Free Algerstonia wrote:i hate shitposting and shitposters, but i love you

Sordhau x free algerstonia????


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Tangatarehua
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Postby Tangatarehua » Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:32 pm

He's definitely not a traitor and should be pardoned. He's exposed that the United States government was involved in illegal activities and there's that famous line from Harry Potter about how it takes more courage to stand up to one's friends than to stand up to one's enemies. And of course, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance - he was doing his patriotic duty in exposing the authoritarian and corrupt practices of his government.

I actually contrast him with Julian Assange because there's a bit more grey area to Assange (whose leaks did needlessly endanger the lives of troops), where Snowden is in my view unequivocally heroic.

The main dampner on my opinion of him is his connections with Russia, who took him in as a way to snub the US and buy some cheap credibility and the fact that he's started shilling the Putin line. I sympathise with the awkward position he's in, he was betrayed by his own country, but it's still difficult to respect him given that Russia is guilty of far worse atrocities than the US at this point.

Free Algerstonia wrote:edward snowden was killed by the fsb working in coordination with the cia, the current "edward snowden" communications are actually communications from an fsb agent


I know this is a shitpost, but a small part of me actually considers this plausible.
Last edited by Tangatarehua on Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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