American Politics XI: No Moe Roe(Likely, Anyway)

[Senkaku]

How possible would it be to add self defense into the American PE curriculum?

Well, either you centralize American school curricula into a single DOE-approved curriculum like other countries' education ministries, and then add self-defense, or you organize in every state and thousands of local school districts across the country to convince parents, teachers, and administrators that adding a self defense unit to PE curricula would be a good idea (which I'm sure at least some will already have).

[Tarsonis]

Clear in your wildest first year psych student jam sessions maybe.

Alito literally references the "domestic infant supply" in the fucking decision.

Out of context quotes are fun. He was referring to that in the context of adoption, i.e kids up for adoption stateside vs abroad. Had nothing to do with pumping out units for the capitalist machine or whatever the fuck.

Remember what I said about twisting? you're doing it again

[Maricarland]

Most countries get regular amendments to their Constitutions or new Constitutions every so often. We don't. Many Countries have already enshrined some or all of what I wrote. I did not put in every policy I want, only the things I think should be foundational to a society, which is what a Constitution is supposed to be, the foundation.

So call your representatives, and get them to try and introduce some. We don't get Amendments, because we don't agree on them, not because the mechanic isn't there. It would also help of the amendments that get proposed are actually substantive and aren't some inane thing like Banning flag burning.

Work the problem. it's easier to throw rocks at a house than build one.

Mathematically, it only takes about 2% of the U.S. population to block an amendment because the States get equal power in proposing and ratifying amendments regardless of population. That means that even though the Constitution does not say you need a 98% majority spread out roughly evenly across the country, in effect we do, no other democratic country has that strict a criteria to amend their constitution.

[The Jamesian Republic]

How possible would it be to add self defense into the American PE curriculum?

Well, there is no "American curriculum," everything education is placed in the states' hands(the US Education Department mostly serves to guide and set federal standards which the states can happily ignore), so it depends on the state. I think it might be quite palatable in a lot of states myself.

Well how possible would it be to get states to do add it?

The states that are planning to ban abortion would be a good place as women will need (though this is something Everyone needs) to defend themselves from attackers and since abortion is not an option we must find preventative measures.

[Senkaku]

Alito literally references the "domestic infant supply" in the fucking decision.

Out of context quotes are fun. He was referring to that in the context of adoption, i.e kids up for adoption stateside vs abroad. Had nothing to do with pumping out units for the capitalist machine or whatever the fuck.

Remember what I said about twisting? you're doing it again

...do you think adoption isn't a market? How is using explicitly capitalist language to describe shoring up the supply of units for the adoption industry unrelated to what Maricarland said? He's literally describing the need to pump out more units for the capitalist machine; Maricarland is just identifying the fact that the "domestic infant supply" for the adoption industry will eventually grow up to become human capital inputs for other industries.

The only quibble I'd have was the part where they said it was a "subconscious" current; it seems quite overt and explicit to me.

[Second Republic of Cuba]

This is just ridiculous.

How can a murderer have a sentence of only twenty years?

Ask Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Germany, the Netherlands, Portugal, and several other coutnries.

So, Anders Breivik.

You’d be totally fine with him being released in the 2030s?

[The Alma Mater]

Well, there is no "American curriculum," everything education is placed in the states' hands(the US Education Department mostly serves to guide and set federal standards which the states can happily ignore), so it depends on the state. I think it might be quite palatable in a lot of states myself.

Well how possible would it be to get states to do add it?

The states that are planning to ban abortion would be a good place as women will need (though this is something Everyone needs) to defend themselves from attackers and since abortion is not an option we must find preventative measures.

Where do you get the silly idea the people in power *want* to prevent rapes?

Let's be frank here: there are at least 20.000 rapekits that still need to be processed. Actual evidence that could be used to get rapists of the street. But they are left on shelves to collect dust - and that is just the cases where evidence could be collected. Other cases have a less than 10% conviction rate. Every year 70.000 rape victims do not even bother to go to the police since pressing charges is hard and actively discouraged. And now we even see Scotus judges tweeting that the USA "needs to produce more domestic children".

The US government WANTS people to get raped. They are not going to make that harder.

[Shrillland]

Well, there is no "American curriculum," everything education is placed in the states' hands(the US Education Department mostly serves to guide and set federal standards which the states can happily ignore), so it depends on the state. I think it might be quite palatable in a lot of states myself.

Well how possible would it be to get states to do add it?

The states that are planning to ban abortion would be a good place as women will need (though this is something Everyone needs) to defend themselves from attackers and since abortion is not an option we must find preventative measures.

Quite possible in most states, it can be accepted on arguments that all sides will support, but we'll never know until we try.

[Shrillland]

Ask Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Germany, the Netherlands, Portugal, and several other coutnries.

So, Anders Breivik.

You’d be totally fine with him being released in the 2030s?

He won't be, Norwegian law allows extending sentences for an unlimited number of five-year terms if they're still a threat.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The U.S. Constitution is vastly outdated and should be trashed.

Some of the changes needed:

* Making it easier to amend, and providing an option for a referendum to amend the Constitution. It should not be easy to amend the Constitution, but we should be able to get at least one amendment every 2-3 years or so.
* Eliminating the electoral college
* Eliminating the Senate or weakening the Senate
* Weakening the Supreme Court
* Ranked Choice Voting and Multi-Member Districts
* Enshrining marriage right, abortion rights, privacy rights, etc...
* Enshrining a right to food, housing, healthcare, clothing, employment, etc...
* Banning the death penalty and lifetime incarceration or incarceration longer than 20 years
* Enshrining labor rights
* Getting money out of politics and anti-corruption regulations
* Voting right protections
* and so on...

Translation: "The Constitution is a barrier to me getting what I want, and thus must be removed." That mentality is exactly why it's so hard to remove, and so hard to change. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

If it took anything between half a million and a million dead to enshrine conditional freedom from slavery into this constitution then why have a republic?

[Second Republic of Cuba]

So, Anders Breivik.

You’d be totally fine with him being released in the 2030s?

He won't be, Norwegian law allows extending sentences for an unlimited number of five-year terms if they're still a threat.

That’s not the point I’m trying to make.

He’s a murderer, and this guy essentially just said he’d be fine with murderers being released in 20 years.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

* Banning the death penalty and lifetime incarceration or incarceration longer than 20 years...

This is just ridiculous.

How can a murderer have a sentence of only twenty years?

literally cheering for the modern slave labour industry.

[The Jamesian Republic]

Well how possible would it be to get states to do add it?

The states that are planning to ban abortion would be a good place as women will need (though this is something Everyone needs) to defend themselves from attackers and since abortion is not an option we must find preventative measures.

Where do you get the silly idea the people in power *want* to prevent rapes?

Let's be frank here: there are at least 20.000 rapekits that still need to be processed. Actual evidence that could be used to get rapists of the street. But they are left on shelves to collect dust - and that is just the cases where evidence could be collected. Other cases have a less than 10% conviction rate. Every year 70.000 rape victims do not even bother to go to the police since pressing charges is hard and actively discouraged. And now we even see Scotus judges tweeting that the USA "needs to produce more domestic children".

The US government WANTS people to get raped. They are not going to make that harder.

This too. We need a legal system that gets justice and helps victims out of violent situations.

Well how possible would it be to get states to do add it?

The states that are planning to ban abortion would be a good place as women will need (though this is something Everyone needs) to defend themselves from attackers and since abortion is not an option we must find preventative measures.

Quite possible in most states, it can be accepted on arguments that all sides will support, but we'll never know until we try.

We have to try. No we must try.

[Second Republic of Cuba]

This is just ridiculous.

How can a murderer have a sentence of only twenty years?

literally cheering for the modern slave labour industry.

Nope, I just think someone who commits some kind of torture-murder, or someone who murders a child should never be released.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

literally cheering for the modern slave labour industry.

Nope, I just think someone who commits some kind of torture-murder, or someone who murders a child should never be released.

and the american implementation of the death penalty is so broken that it is torture. do you now approve of that?

[Ifreann]

Where do you get the silly idea the people in power *want* to prevent rapes?

Let's be frank here: there are at least 20.000 rapekits that still need to be processed. Actual evidence that could be used to get rapists of the street. But they are left on shelves to collect dust - and that is just the cases where evidence could be collected. Other cases have a less than 10% conviction rate. Every year 70.000 rape victims do not even bother to go to the police since pressing charges is hard and actively discouraged. And now we even see Scotus judges tweeting that the USA "needs to produce more domestic children".

The US government WANTS people to get raped. They are not going to make that harder.

This too. We need a legal system that gets justice and helps victims out of violent situations.

Quite possible in most states, it can be accepted on arguments that all sides will support, but we'll never know until we try.

We have to try. No we must try.

Seems unlikely that the states which are going to take away women's rights are going to be too pushed about doing anything to protect women.

[The Jamesian Republic]

This too. We need a legal system that gets justice and helps victims out of violent situations.

We have to try. No we must try.

Seems unlikely that the states which are going to take away women's rights are going to be too pushed about doing anything to protect women.

But they must or even more terrible things will happen.

[Tarsonis]

So call your representatives, and get them to try and introduce some. We don't get Amendments, because we don't agree on them, not because the mechanic isn't there. It would also help of the amendments that get proposed are actually substantive and aren't some inane thing like Banning flag burning.

Work the problem. it's easier to throw rocks at a house than build one.

Mathematically, it only takes about 2% of the U.S. population to block an amendment because the States get equal power in proposing and ratifying amendments regardless of population. That means that even though the Constitution does not say you need a 98% majority spread out roughly evenly across the country, in effect we do, no other democratic country has that strict a criteria to amend their constitution.

Firstly, "no other country has X" is not an argument for anything.

Secondly, while I'm sure you've got a formula that gives you those nice round numbers, gonna hit the nonsense button. Some states don't even have 1% of the population, let alone 2. The 10 largest states have just a bit over 50% or the population. Should they get to dictate policy to the other 40? No. It'd be one thing if we were a smaller country the likes of Germany or France but we're not. We're the most populous Developed country by a wide margin, our population so culturally stratified that anywhere else in the world we'd be at least a dozen countries maybe more. the people in New Hampshire need an equal representation so as to not be dictated to by the likes of California.

Again, your disdain for the Constitution appears to be firmly rooted in your frustration in not being to advance your agenda, rather than an honest, good faith critique of the system.

[Second Republic of Cuba]

Nope, I just think someone who commits some kind of torture-murder, or someone who murders a child should never be released.

and the american implementation of the death penalty is so broken that it is torture. do you now approve of that?

No.

I just think depraved murderers should ever be released from prison, as do most people.

[Adamede]

Translation: "The Constitution is a barrier to me getting what I want, and thus must be removed." That mentality is exactly why it's so hard to remove, and so hard to change. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

If it took anything between half a million and a million dead to enshrine conditional freedom from slavery into this constitution then why have a republic?

Cause monarchy doesn't exactly have a great tract record of social progress.

[Maricarland]

He won't be, Norwegian law allows extending sentences for an unlimited number of five-year terms if they're still a threat.

That’s not the point I’m trying to make.

He’s a murderer, and this guy essentially just said he’d be fine with murderers being released in 20 years.

Your comment was how can we let a murderer go after only 20 years, well that is common practice in Norway and the other countries I mentioned (15 years is considered an extreme prison sentence even for murder in Germany).

I personally want to abolish prison (I consider all incarceration to be cruel punishment), but I know that our institutions right now would never allow that.

However, it is obvious that our 8th amendment is outdated. The 8th amendment states: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." We have excessive bail, and our prison system is pure torture, and psychologists have found that humans find forced confinement to be a form of torture. Even if we modified our prison system to be more humane, we have to consider at what point is a sentence too excessive. I think the death penalty is obviously too excessive, and I view lifetime incarceration to be the death penalty in disguise (death by incarceration, a social death for all intents and purposes). But 50 years might as well be a lifetime incarceration, we need some limit if we are not going to have lifetime incarceration. Studies suggest that most (not all) violent criminals outgrow violent tendencies when they get older for a variety of reasons, and it was already suggested by prison reform groups to limit sentences to 20 years.

[The Jamesian Republic]

If it took anything between half a million and a million dead to enshrine conditional freedom from slavery into this constitution then why have a republic?

Cause monarchy doesn't exactly have a great tract record of social progress.

The Constitutional Monarchies of Scandinavia: Are we a joke to you?

[Tarsonis]

Translation: "The Constitution is a barrier to me getting what I want, and thus must be removed." That mentality is exactly why it's so hard to remove, and so hard to change. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

If it took anything between half a million and a million dead to enshrine conditional freedom from slavery into this constitution then why have a republic?

momentum. Can't let San Marino win. we'll discover Oil there any day now I imagine.

[The Jamesian Republic]

If it took anything between half a million and a million dead to enshrine conditional freedom from slavery into this constitution then why have a republic?

momentum. Can't let San Marino win. we'll discover Oil there any day now I imagine.

The freedom is ready to be intensified

[Second Republic of Cuba]

I personally want to abolish prison (I consider all incarceration to be cruel punishment), but I know that our institutions right now would never allow that.

So what should we do with a sadistic murderer?

I don’t think they should be allowed to roam the streets.