American Politics XI: No Moe Roe(Likely, Anyway)

[Necroghastia]

Given, it seems, one of your favorite pastimes is yammering on about threats (real or imagined) to your ability to own a gun by Democrats, how many times have you used a gun in order to put an end to said threats?

I have shot all the Democrats exactly zero times.

Did I say "all?" Come now.

[American Legionaries]

I have shot all the Democrats exactly zero times.

Did I say "all?" Come now.

That would be the minimum amount required to put an end to said threats, wouldn't it?

[Umeria]

They get a say during the trial, don't they?

You understand there's a different between having been accused of a crime and having been convicted of a crime, right?

You got me, I did an imperfect analogy to explain my argument. The point is that there are some things which all people have the right to, even those incarcerated.

[The Jamesian Republic]

Did I say "all?" Come now.

That would be the minimum amount required to put an end to said threats, wouldn't it?

So if I was a Democrat would you shoot me?

[Tarsonis]

inmates don't get to pick the warden.

So you just throw everyone who disagrees with you in prison, and, voila, they no longer get a say on who decides who gets thrown in prison!

Again, this is the explicit purpose of the War on Drugs.

I don't disagree that reforms need to happen, and laws need to change, but inmates don't get the right to vote, plain and simple.

[San Lumen]

Given, it seems, one of your favorite pastimes is yammering on about threats (real or imagined) to your ability to own a gun by Democrats, how many times have you used a gun in order to put an end to said threats?

I have shot all the Democrats exactly zero times.

do you also still endorse vandalism of infrastructure in metro areas?

[Eahland]

So you just throw everyone who disagrees with you in prison, and, voila, they no longer get a say on who decides who gets thrown in prison!

Again, this is the explicit purpose of the War on Drugs.

I don't disagree that reforms need to happen, and laws need to change, but inmates don't get the right to vote, plain and simple.

Inmates do get the right to vote, plain and simple.

[The Rich Port]

So you just throw everyone who disagrees with you in prison, and, voila, they no longer get a say on who decides who gets thrown in prison!

Again, this is the explicit purpose of the War on Drugs.

I don't disagree that reforms need to happen, and laws need to change, but inmates don't get the right to vote, plain and simple.

Inmates don't get to vote... But they get to run for Congress?

[San Lumen]

I don't disagree that reforms need to happen, and laws need to change, but inmates don't get the right to vote, plain and simple.

Inmates do get the right to vote, plain and simple.

even those sentenced to life in prison or death? I will have it be known I'm against capital punishment.

[Eahland]

Inmates do get the right to vote, plain and simple.

even those sentenced to life in prison or death? I will have it be known I'm against capital punishment.

Yes. All of them. Every citizen of the United States has the inalienable right to vote for the people who make the laws they live under.

You got any arguments for why they shouldn't, beyond "felons are icky"?

(Note, I'm a Vermonter. As a polity that gives more than lip service to democracy, we do not strip felons of their right to vote here.)

[Izandai]

I don't disagree that reforms need to happen, and laws need to change, but inmates don't get the right to vote, plain and simple.

Inmates do get the right to vote, plain and simple.

They demonstrably don't, at least in some parts of the US. But that has little bearing on whether or not they should.

[American Legionaries]

I have shot all the Democrats exactly zero times.

do you also still endorse vandalism of infrastructure in metro areas?

The moderation team considers telephone poles to be people.

[Mettaton-EX]

a country that bans inmates from voting is a country that has a vested interest in imprisoning dissidents. pretty simple!

[Tarsonis]

I don't disagree that reforms need to happen, and laws need to change, but inmates don't get the right to vote, plain and simple.

Inmates do get the right to vote, plain and simple.

No, they lose their civil liberties when they're convicted, to include free movement, assembly, and voting rights. You might not agree with the laws, but that doesn't change the fact that they are the laws and must be upheld for Rule of Law to prevail.

The inmates don't get to pick their jailers, and frankly the fact that I have to explain such a basic concept is disconcerting.

[Umeria]

Inmates do get the right to vote, plain and simple.

No, they lose their civil liberties when they're convicted, to include free movement, assembly, and voting rights. You might not agree with the laws, but that doesn't change the fact that they are the laws and must be upheld for Rule of Law to prevail.

The inmates don't get to pick their jailers, and frankly the fact that I have to explain such a basic concept is disconcerting.

I think it's pretty clear they were talking about universal rights, not legal rights. Legal rights can be removed. Universal rights can be violated but they still exist.

[Tarsonis]

even those sentenced to life in prison or death? I will have it be known I'm against capital punishment.

Yes. All of them. Every citizen of the United States has the inalienable right to vote for the people who make the laws they live under.

the right to vote is not inaliable by any means. As long as you operate under that misconception the rest if your argument will always be fallacious.

[Tarsonis]

No, they lose their civil liberties when they're convicted, to include free movement, assembly, and voting rights. You might not agree with the laws, but that doesn't change the fact that they are the laws and must be upheld for Rule of Law to prevail.

The inmates don't get to pick their jailers, and frankly the fact that I have to explain such a basic concept is disconcerting.

I think it's pretty clear they were talking about universal rights, not legal rights. Legal rights can be removed. Universal rights can be violated but they still exist.

The right to vote is not by any stretch of the imagination a universal right, nor even really a human right. So they're way off the edge of the map in that regard.

[Thermodolia]

a country that bans inmates from voting is a country that has a vested interest in imprisoning dissidents. pretty simple!

So pretty much every nation on earth outside of a select few

[Shrillland]

I think it's pretty clear they were talking about universal rights, not legal rights. Legal rights can be removed. Universal rights can be violated but they still exist.

The right to vote is not by any stretch of the imagination a universal right, nor even really a human right. So they're way off the edge of the map in that regard.

Why not? It is merely a manifestation of freedom of expression and speech, and that's a universal right. Unless, like me, you know that universal rights don't truly exist unless we as a society work to ensure they do.

[Tarsonis]

a country that bans inmates from voting is a country that has a vested interest in imprisoning dissidents. pretty simple!

So pretty much every nation on earth outside of a select few

this is what happens when we don't teach civics in school anymore

[Thermodolia]

The whole point of something being a right is that you can't take it away.

I don't think someone who has been sentenced to death for an act of domestic terrorism should be allowed to vote. There are some crimes that are just too heinous.

Nobody should be sentenced to death. But most people should be allowed to vote, even the terrorists if they have paid their due.

Obviously though people who have committed voter fraud or campaign fraud shouldn’t be allowed to vote

[Thermodolia]

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempts to disarm the workers must be stopped, by force if necessary"

Are you of the mindset all gun laws are unconstitutional?

Yes

[Tarsonis]

The right to vote is not by any stretch of the imagination a universal right, nor even really a human right. So they're way off the edge of the map in that regard.

Why not? It is merely a manifestation of freedom of expression and speech, and that's a universal right. Unless, like me, you know that universal rights don't truly exist unless we as a society work to ensure they do.

I'd say that's a stretch. The right to mock the king =/= the right to replace the king.

[American Legionaries]

The right to vote is not by any stretch of the imagination a universal right, nor even really a human right. So they're way off the edge of the map in that regard.

Why not? It is merely a manifestation of freedom of expression and speech, and that's a universal right. Unless, like me, you know that universal rights don't truly exist unless we as a society work to ensure they do.

A universal right is a condition inherent to one's status as a person. The birth of a person does not generate a government system for them to live under, much less an explicitly democratic one.

Elections, and by extension, voting, are products of the government, they are at best civil entitlements. My ballot is a thing the government provides for me as a function of the government, like my social security payments, or Medicaid, or food stamps. And, like all of those things, if I fail to meet the state's requirements, or I abuse the entitlement illegally, they can deprive me of it.

[Nora Xent]

I think it's pretty clear they were talking about universal rights, not legal rights. Legal rights can be removed. Universal rights can be violated but they still exist.

The right to vote is not by any stretch of the imagination a universal right, nor even really a human right. So they're way off the edge of the map in that regard.

Universal declaration of human rights, Human right no. 21.