The Invasion of Ukraine, Russia Threatens Finland/Sweden

[Kubra]

For the same reason MacArthur got sacked.

I asked how.

Then I will repeat what I said earlier: wars are fought to obtain political objectives. The threat of the bomb is very conducive to such, the usage (at present) is much less. Prevention is simple: Ukraine not really being worth bringing out the bomb, for neither Washington nor Moscow.

[Ethel mermania]

Ukraine HAD nuclear weapons. Largest stockpile in the world even.
They disarmed.

See what it got them.

To be fair there's a good reason why both Russia and America wants Ukraine to disarm of their nukes. Ukraine can't actually use the nukes to install a missile system on their own, at least not immediately. What they can best do is to scrap them into components. And due to the porous state of the corrupt (not to mention unstable) Ukrainian government and military apparatus, there is a credible threat that one or two or fifty warheads will "accidentally" end up in the hands of whoever was the highest bidder. Saddam or ISIS or some eccentric billionaire.

There are very good reason for Americans and Europeans not to want Ukraine to have nukes. Not so many for the Ukrainians

[Adamede]

Ultimately, if the west really cared you would have seen a host of rapid reaction forces deployed to the region last week from 16th Air assault brigade to the 82nd airborne and a whole host from Nato countries in between. Its fairly obvious putin doesn't care about anything other than military action.

Although I personally feel conflicted on my own overall opinion on what should have been done.

Any military action by the west against Russia is far too likely to raider in a nuclear exchange for them to risk it. Ukraine is on its own.

[Ethel mermania]

I asked how.

Then I will repeat what I said earlier: wars are fought to obtain political objectives. The threat of the bomb is very conducive to such, the usage (at present) is much less. Prevention is simple: Ukraine not really being worth bringing out the bomb, for neither Washington nor Moscow.

It would be for kiev

[Heloin]

That was also over 30 years ago and he’ll be having his 70th birthday this year.

Boomer arguments are boring.

Dismissing this as a boomer argument is lazy. He’s an aging politician who’s been the effective ruler of Russia for 20 years, barely younger then Brezhnev when he dragged the USSR into Afghanistan. We’re talking about a man who reportedly watches the videos of Gaddafi’s death in a worry that he might end up like that.

[Mestovakia]

Ultimately, if the west really cared you would have seen a host of rapid reaction forces deployed to the region last week from 16th Air assault brigade to the 82nd airborne and a whole host from Nato countries in between. Its fairly obvious putin doesn't care about anything other than military action.

Although I personally feel conflicted on my own overall opinion on what should have been done.

Any murkiest action by the west against Russia is far too likely to raider in a nuclear exchange for them to risk it. Ukraine is on its own.

Sanctions, however...

[Ifreann]

I asked how.

Then I will repeat what I said earlier: wars are fought to obtain political objectives. The threat of the bomb is very conducive to such, the usage (at present) is much less. Prevention is simple: Ukraine not really being worth bringing out the bomb, for neither Washington nor Moscow.

So it's an act of faith that Putin will graciously allow his forces to be defeated and will trust that NATO's war against Russia will stop at the Ukrainian border.

[Ethel mermania]

Any murkiest action by the west against Russia is far too likely to raider in a nuclear exchange for them to risk it. Ukraine is on its own.

Sanctions, however...

Did nothing to stop the invasion

[Mestovakia]

Sanctions, however...

Did nothing to stop the invasion

No, but they'll definitely hurt Russia over the next few weeks.

[The Black Forrest]

Boomer arguments are boring.

Dismissing this as a boomer argument is lazy. He’s an aging politician who’s been the effective ruler of Russia for 20 years, barely younger then Brezhnev when he dragged the USSR into Afghanistan. We’re talking about a man who reportedly watches the videos of Gaddafi’s death in a worry that he might end up like that.

Then why bring his age into it?

[Alcala-Cordel]

Sanctions, however...

Did nothing to stop the invasion

That's because the current sanctions are little beyond appeasement. Why not face the fact that NATO wants war almost as much as Russia does?

[Ethel mermania]

Did nothing to stop the invasion

That's because the current sanctions are little beyond appeasement. Why not face the fact that NATO wants war almost as much as Russia does?

I think if nato wanted a war over this, we would have it.

Real sanctions would cut all of Russia from western banking and financial markets along with a seizure of assets. That ain't gonna happen

[Continental Free States]

I tell ya what, if Ukraine manages to reasonably hold its ground, especially with the resources one can expect are going to be funnelled its way, NATO intervention ain't that unplausible. The fact of the matter is that as a power bloc if it can't show an ability to project power in the face of threats from other power-blocs well it puts the whole thing on shaky ground, you know?

How does NATO intervene without starting a nuclear war?

The same way India and Pakistan fought the Kargil War? I mean at this point we actually do have a real life example of two nuclear powers fighting a war with each other while exercising self-restraint so I'm not sure why you think any conflict between Russia and the US will result in the whole northern hemisphere being saturated with nukes.

[Page]

Drinking game: Turn on the news and take a shot every time you hear the words "since World War 2".

Don't actually do this, you will literally die

[Heloin]

Dismissing this as a boomer argument is lazy. He’s an aging politician who’s been the effective ruler of Russia for 20 years, barely younger then Brezhnev when he dragged the USSR into Afghanistan. We’re talking about a man who reportedly watches the videos of Gaddafi’s death in a worry that he might end up like that.

Then why bring his age into it?

He's an aging politician who has no clear successor, is growing paranoid, and just invaded another nation. Age is relevant in any discussion on far too many politicians these days and thinking I'm making some lazy jab at older folks is just missing the importance of it.

[Kubra]

Then I will repeat what I said earlier: wars are fought to obtain political objectives. The threat of the bomb is very conducive to such, the usage (at present) is much less. Prevention is simple: Ukraine not really being worth bringing out the bomb, for neither Washington nor Moscow.

So it's an act of faith that Putin will graciously allow his forces to be defeated and will trust that NATO's war against Russia will stop at the Ukrainian border.

No, but he would probably not use the bomb, just as us not being sure that he probably will not and not being sure that we're sure he probably would not would of course avoid incursions into russian territory proper. It would be quite terrible for the Ukraine, of course.

[Thermodolia]

VTB will be banned from the US, GAZProm too

[Diopolis]

How does NATO intervene without starting a nuclear war?

The same way India and Pakistan fought the Kargil War? I mean at this point we actually do have a real life example of two nuclear powers fighting a war with each other while exercising self-restraint so I'm not sure why you think any conflict between Russia and the US will result in the whole northern hemisphere being saturated with nukes.

Common opinion in Russia is that most US missiles won't fly due to lack of maintenance and so they would be clear winners of a nuclear war.
If that's just jingoistic propaganda, then I doubt Putin believes it, but there have been worse intel assessments than that.

[Major-Tom]

How does NATO intervene without starting a nuclear war?

The same way India and Pakistan fought the Kargil War? I mean at this point we actually do have a real life example of two nuclear powers fighting a war with each other while exercising self-restraint so I'm not sure why you think any conflict between Russia and the US will result in the whole northern hemisphere being saturated with nukes.

We're comparing apples and.....incredibly impulsive oranges here.

Drinking game: Turn on the news and take a shot every time you hear the words "since World War 2".

Don't actually do this, you will literally die

Recreational alcoholism seems more and more like the move during these dark days. *shrugs*

[Shrillland]

VTB will be banned from the US, GAZProm too

Yeah, these sanctions will cause damage, certainly, but I'm not convinced it'll mean Putin's ejection.

[The Black Forrest]

VTB will be banned from the US, GAZProm too

Yeah, these sanctions will cause damage, certainly, but I'm not convinced it'll mean Putin's ejection.

Indeed. They probably discussed the issue a great deal before hand……

[Shrillland]

Biden just said he could see Putin going beyond Ukraine...I'm not sure I share that myself...

[Esthe]

VTB will be banned from the US, GAZProm too

Yeah, these sanctions will cause damage, certainly, but I'm not convinced it'll mean Putin's ejection.

He’s gone too far, it would be too embarrassing to pull out now even if it meant Russia going bankrupt.

[Mestovakia]

Biden just said he could see Putin going beyond Ukraine...I'm not sure I share that myself...

Appeasement on Line 1. Give an inch and they'll take a foot.

[Shrillland]

Biden just said he could see Putin going beyond Ukraine...I'm not sure I share that myself...

Appeasement on Line 1. Give an inch and they'll take a foot.

Oh, true enough, I just don't see any other territory that Russia has much interest in. Even naked imperialism has a reason besides wanting to take over everything.