Why Don't You Give Cash to Homeless People?

[Armacor]

Cant speak to the Netherlands, but here in AU, you can send someone money by entering their mobile phone number.

for example:
https://www.commbank.com.au/digital-ban ... money.html

and for cheque usage here:
https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bul ... 0in%202016.

dying fast -- average value is now >$10,000 in 2017, however i expect that has since fallen as you no longer need to use a cheque for rental bonds or house deposits since then.

Sept 2020: average value of personal cheques here down to $111. 0.2% of all transactions during the test week.
https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/rdp ... eques.html

[The Alma Mater]

Cant speak to the Netherlands, but here in AU, you can send someone money by entering their mobile phone number.

Same here. All banks have apps for that that can work together. "Tikkie" is most popular.

[The Alma Mater]

I'm in the Netherlands. The last bank that still accepted cheques stopped doing that at the beginning of this year. I have *worked* at a bank and have not seen a cheque in the past 30 years.


Zero. Employers are required to pay electronically.* The state runs a service for people who are refused by commercial banks due to previous fraud etc.

* All right, there are exceptions, like e.g. for soldiers abroad. But those are rare.

Seriously? I've received cheques this year, everyone in the UK still accepts them. Why has the Netherlands abandoned them completely?

I assume because everyone has a bankaccount and smartphone. PINtransactions and internetbanking have been around for over 40 years; transferring money through an app is quick and easy. Cheques never were popular.

[Kilobugya]

I assume because everyone has a bankaccount and smartphone. PINtransactions and internetbanking have been around for over 40 years; transferring money through an app is quick and easy. Cheques never were popular.

From what I know smartphone penetration is never higher than 75%-80% of population, so that leaves 1/4th to 1/5th of people out of the system. Especially elderly I don't see many of them using smartphone apps...

[Armacor]

most of that 20-25% of the population without a smartphone is of course under the age of 18... and some (many of the over 12s) of them will have a phone in a parental account

[Saiwania]

most of that 20-25% of the population without a smartphone is of course under the age of 18... and some (many of the over 12s) of them will have a phone in a parental account

Feature phones are still apparently sold, so evidently not everyone can be bothered. I have a smartphone, but I can't or don't want to pay for any data plan or monthly service to come with it, that is an expensive burden more often than not. I just use it as a mobile computer using wifi thats available.

In remote places with no good internet, there is less need or want for electronic only forms of payment. I'd imagine that at the most local level, that people will keep doing what they see as more fit for their situation.

[The Alma Mater]

most of that 20-25% of the population without a smartphone is of course under the age of 18... and some (many of the over 12s) of them will have a phone in a parental account

Any phone transaction is an ID'd and tracked transaction. Strictly speaking, children should not be able to spend money that way, but for some reason libertarians have no objection to corporations auditing children.

Wel duh - libertarians are right wing corporate bootlickers. Ofc they are in favour.

[Perikuresu]

Not sure if this counts as a response but
I don't go to my city's CBD that much, and even then I rarely see homeless people there or anywhere near my suburbs

[Ethel mermania]

Cash is a mostly-anonymous way of buying anything. Stores may discourage it for the same reason some stores run "loyalty" schemes: to learn all they can about each customer's buying habits.

Cash notes can be traced back to the last place to record their serial number: likely a bank, though police and sometimes shop keepers record those numbers. It's "mostly" anonymous though: the connection between video of you paying with a note, and the number of the note, is blurred by it going in the till with other people's notes. Coins as far as I know, are fully anonymous.

True,but here many stores no longer accept cash - or force you to use a specific "cash" lane to the cashier; meaning you stand in line longer.
Covid and the whole "please limit the passing of money from hand to hand" ofc stimulated that even more.

A few reasons
1. Not everyone i buy from takes credit cards.
2. I dont particularly like given Mastercard and visa a piece of every transaction i make. I want my money to go to the people I am buying from.
3. Its no ones business where I spend my money. That's not information I want to give to the government or private industry.

As to stores that don't take credit cards, I dont shop there and I get very Kareny about it.

[Kubra]

pay the weed man
I mean I don't, I get mine from the store, but some folks still got a weed man.

Trust me - in Amsterdam people pay weed with their card

paranoid Canadians only pay cash, just in case us border guards go through their transaction history.

[Ifreann]

Because for some reason our society likes to scrutinise how the poor spend their money, but not the rich. Lots of people I know wouldn't care if some billionaire contributing nothing to society bought a private yacht, yet they are whipped into frenzies when they suspect homeless people are buying drugs (which is actually not that prevalent and yet another example of anti-poor propaganda we're all exposed to.)

The difference is that a rich person earned their own money and doesn't require any charity, nor are they a tax burden. The other main reason is probably that people aren't convinced that the homeless in general, are a good investment or use of public funds; in that little if any return will result from giving resources of any sort to them. And this is usually borne out from previous experience.

The rich are a huge burden to the public purse. They receive subsidies from the government but pay no taxes.

Its all too common for homelessness to persist, because fundamentally- there are always at least some people in life who do fail economically more than others for various reasons. An individual's personal flaws/shortcomings might just so happen to outweigh the value they're able to bring as human capital or as manual labor. Also because housing/land is finite.

There are far more houses than people.

---

"Hey, can I get a dollar? I am starving."

"Hey, how about I buy you a meal?"

"I don't want no fuckin meal."

"???"

This is a typical conversation I have with homeless people outside fast food places or gas stations. There are also the "homeless" people at every highway exit ramp that drive a moped home every night. Oh and the "homeless" couple who park their 2018 extended cab in the Walmart parking lot everyday and hold signs at the entrances until they are handed a few hundred dollars for groceries. I guess they shop at whole foods because they promptly leave.

IMO do homeless deserve some small luxuries? Sure. That does not include drugs, alcohol, and tobacco though. Those are likely a large part of why they are homeless. So donate or volunteer at a shelter. I use to work with habitat for humanity (hand up not hand out). Offer food. Don't hand money do the fakes or the addicts. It won't help.

A couple years back there was a lady who would do the same thing, used her two young kids as props one about 4yrs old, the other still in a stroller. Come to find out, after she would grift a few bucks, she walked back to her car, a pretty nice BMW and the kicker was she was married to a doctor.

Did you follow her home or something?

---

After reading a few responses:

How many people actually DO still walk around with cash - and why? Are stores not actively discouraging it?

Our power went out in work last week and we could only deal in cash.

[The Alma Mater]

True,but here many stores no longer accept cash - or force you to use a specific "cash" lane to the cashier; meaning you stand in line longer.
Covid and the whole "please limit the passing of money from hand to hand" ofc stimulated that even more.

A few reasons
1. Not everyone i buy from takes credit cards.
2. I dont particularly like given Mastercard and visa a piece of every transaction i make. I want my money to go to the people I am buying from.
3. Its no ones business where I spend my money. That's not information I want to give to the government or private industry.

As to stores that don't take credit cards, I dont shop there and I get very Kareny about it.

I note people keep assuming credit cards instead of debet cards given out by your own bank - which is the thing everybody here uses (well, as said, or apps etc). And everyone accepts those - even icecream vans (while they do not accept creditcards).

Are those simply not used in the USA ?

[Ethel mermania]

A few reasons
1. Not everyone i buy from takes credit cards.
2. I dont particularly like given Mastercard and visa a piece of every transaction i make. I want my money to go to the people I am buying from.
3. Its no ones business where I spend my money. That's not information I want to give to the government or private industry.

As to stores that don't take credit cards, I dont shop there and I get very Kareny about it.

I note people keep assuming credit cards instead of debet cards given out by your own bank - which is the thing everybody here uses (well, as said, or apps etc). And everyone accepts those - even icecream vans (while they do not accept creditcards).

Are those simply not used in the USA ?

The issuing agency still gets a cut from the transaction, and the spending history is still kept. street vendors here Generally don't accept credit/debit cards. To be fair some do


Edit on a global scale not everyone has access to electronic banking here.

[Kilobugya]

The issuing agency still gets a cut from the transaction, and the spending history is still kept. street vendors here Generally don't accept credit/debit cards. To be fair some do

The cut is usually low, and are compensated the lower risk of fraud (fake bills, blank cheques, ...) and of theft that comes with debit/credit cards. Here the vendors that don't accept cards are either very small ones or those that do tax evasion (like some restaurants that don't declare all their income to avoid paying VAT), but nowadays you can even buy a baguette with a contactless debit card.

Spending history is a problem, to a point, when buying things potentially embarrassing (such as sex toys) or that could be you in trouble with political repression (such as political books, or treating yourself with a snack while in a protest). But you can still use cash for those things if needed.

[SD_Film Artists]

I'm more likely to give to homeless people if they're busking, ie playing music.

I simply won't give money to homeless people if they're sitting next to a cashpoint machine or some other emotional blackmail BS.

[Ethel mermania]

The issuing agency still gets a cut from the transaction, and the spending history is still kept. street vendors here Generally don't accept credit/debit cards. To be fair some do

The cut is usually low, and are compensated the lower risk of fraud (fake bills, blank cheques, ...) and of theft that comes with debit/credit cards. Here the vendors that don't accept cards are either very small ones or those that do tax evasion (like some restaurants that don't declare all their income to avoid paying VAT), but nowadays you can even buy a baguette with a contactless debit card.

Spending history is a problem, to a point, when buying things potentially embarrassing (such as sex toys) or that could be you in trouble with political repression (such as political books, or treating yourself with a snack while in a protest). But you can still use cash for those things if needed.

Its not anyone's business what newspaper i buy, or particular flavor of soda, unless I choose to make it that way

It's not so miniscule its about 1.5% of the transaction value. And fuck citibank, I don't want to help them make a dime

[Anagonia]

When I first started Truck Driving I continued my habit of being generous with my wealth that I attained. I would help folks who were needy, anyone who asked, usually by buying them food or a meal, sometimes even handing out money. What I learned in my six years on the road is that the majority of these people on the side of the road begging, and especially those at Truck Stops, are in fact con artists. They are folks who may have chosen their lifestyle, may even have hit hard times and are actually poor, but they are all "in" on the game. They want your money and they share their money with each other, a headman, or a group for the purposes of drug use or other nefarious means. Often, you'd find these group conning drivers with games of chance simply to steal wallets and personal information. It's all a big game and the majority of these homeless you see around Atlanta are, in fact, "in" on it.

That doesn't detract from my ability to help the poor when requested or when I see someone needs help. What I transitioned from instead of giving out money is instead offering them food and water. Only rarely since a few years ago have I even done cash, and that was to buy a man an overnight stay in a hotel because he looked legitimately in need. When I saw one of the folks I handed money to go directly to a liquor store, that was when I knew that handing that money out was entirely ineffective to support the situation most of these legitimately poor folks are in. They are in a terrible situation, those not "in" on the game as mentioned above, and most are dealing with a crisis of their own. Supporting the bad habit or method that got them there won't support their future, in my opinion. But I will freely, always freely buy them food and water when asked. I don't normally do so on my own will anymore, but when asked I do my best to provide, including to those on the "in" - because some of those folks are being forced to doing that and they have no escape.

[Kilobugya]

Its not anyone's business what newspaper i buy, or particular flavor of soda, unless I choose to make it that way

Your bank or credit/debit cards networks don't know that - they know in which shop you bought something and for how much, but if they see a ~2€ purchase in the Relais H (shop that sells newspapers and snacks) of Gare du Nord, they can't know if I bough l'Humanité (communist newspaper), Le Figaro (right-wing newspaper) or a can of Ice Tea. Sure it's possible to cross-reference from the bank to the shop, but that requires compliance from the shop and isn't usually done unless there is a good reason for it.

I'm not saying there is no problem at all, but it's far from being that serious in most cases. As long as you can still pay in cash when you really need to, I'm fine with using electronic payment as often as possible, it's more convenient, safer money-wise (less risk of theft, ...) and hygiene-wise (especially during pandemics, but not only).

[Borderlands of Rojava]

When I first started Truck Driving I continued my habit of being generous with my wealth that I attained. I would help folks who were needy, anyone who asked, usually by buying them food or a meal, sometimes even handing out money. What I learned in my six years on the road is that the majority of these people on the side of the road begging, and especially those at Truck Stops, are in fact con artists. They are folks who may have chosen their lifestyle, may even have hit hard times and are actually poor, but they are all "in" on the game. They want your money and they share their money with each other, a headman, or a group for the purposes of drug use or other nefarious means. Often, you'd find these group conning drivers with games of chance simply to steal wallets and personal information. It's all a big game and the majority of these homeless you see around Atlanta are, in fact, "in" on it.

That doesn't detract from my ability to help the poor when requested or when I see someone needs help. What I transitioned from instead of giving out money is instead offering them food and water. Only rarely since a few years ago have I even done cash, and that was to buy a man an overnight stay in a hotel because he looked legitimately in need. When I saw one of the folks I handed money to go directly to a liquor store, that was when I knew that handing that money out was entirely ineffective to support the situation most of these legitimately poor folks are in. They are in a terrible situation, those not "in" on the game as mentioned above, and most are dealing with a crisis of their own. Supporting the bad habit or method that got them there won't support their future, in my opinion. But I will freely, always freely buy them food and water when asked. I don't normally do so on my own will anymore, but when asked I do my best to provide, including to those on the "in" - because some of those folks are being forced to doing that and they have no escape.

Had a guy in a Northface jacket and converse beg me for money once. I knew immediately that he probably wasn't homeless.

[Ifreann]

When I first started Truck Driving I continued my habit of being generous with my wealth that I attained. I would help folks who were needy, anyone who asked, usually by buying them food or a meal, sometimes even handing out money. What I learned in my six years on the road is that the majority of these people on the side of the road begging, and especially those at Truck Stops, are in fact con artists. They are folks who may have chosen their lifestyle, may even have hit hard times and are actually poor, but they are all "in" on the game. They want your money and they share their money with each other, a headman, or a group for the purposes of drug use or other nefarious means. Often, you'd find these group conning drivers with games of chance simply to steal wallets and personal information. It's all a big game and the majority of these homeless you see around Atlanta are, in fact, "in" on it.

That doesn't detract from my ability to help the poor when requested or when I see someone needs help. What I transitioned from instead of giving out money is instead offering them food and water. Only rarely since a few years ago have I even done cash, and that was to buy a man an overnight stay in a hotel because he looked legitimately in need. When I saw one of the folks I handed money to go directly to a liquor store, that was when I knew that handing that money out was entirely ineffective to support the situation most of these legitimately poor folks are in. They are in a terrible situation, those not "in" on the game as mentioned above, and most are dealing with a crisis of their own. Supporting the bad habit or method that got them there won't support their future, in my opinion. But I will freely, always freely buy them food and water when asked. I don't normally do so on my own will anymore, but when asked I do my best to provide, including to those on the "in" - because some of those folks are being forced to doing that and they have no escape.

Had a guy in a Northface jacket and converse beg me for money once. I knew immediately that he probably wasn't homeless.

Because when you become homeless the first thing that happens is that your clothes transform.

[Anagonia]

Had a guy in a Northface jacket and converse beg me for money once. I knew immediately that he probably wasn't homeless.

It's sad to state but yeah, you can usually tell. You can tell without a doubt that someone is poor, because you know they can't help what they got and where they're at. It's not impossible a nicely clothed man would need help, and I have bought meals for those folks, but I won't give them money. One of them I remember was drunk as crap, clear alcohol on breath, but he was hungry. He wanted the money, begged for it, but I went in and bought him water and food and left. I saw him eating on the way out of the truck stop, so that was enough for me. A clear tell for these folks is if you offer food and water and they refuse it. If they do, they likely ain't homeless, they just want your money.

[Moray-Aberdeen]

My mom usually only gives homeless people food. She believes that they could spend the money she donates to them on drugs, because many homeless people are drug addicts especially, younger ones. I totally agree with her though because your still giving them something, and in some cases giving them food is actually more worth than giving them cash.

[Ifreann]

Had a guy in a Northface jacket and converse beg me for money once. I knew immediately that he probably wasn't homeless.

It's sad to state but yeah, you can usually tell. You can tell without a doubt that someone is poor, because you know they can't help what they got and where they're at. It's not impossible a nicely clothed man would need help, and I have bought meals for those folks, but I won't give them money. One of them I remember was drunk as crap, clear alcohol on breath, but he was hungry. He wanted the money, begged for it, but I went in and bought him water and food and left. I saw him eating on the way out of the truck stop, so that was enough for me. A clear tell for these folks is if you offer food and water and they refuse it. If they do, they likely ain't homeless, they just want your money.

Or they are homeless and just want your money, not you investigating their life to see if they really deserve help.

[Ethel mermania]

Its not anyone's business what newspaper i buy, or particular flavor of soda, unless I choose to make it that way

Your bank or credit/debit cards networks don't know that - they know in which shop you bought something and for how much, but if they see a ~2€ purchase in the Relais H (shop that sells newspapers and snacks) of Gare du Nord, they can't know if I bough l'Humanité (communist newspaper), Le Figaro (right-wing newspaper) or a can of Ice Tea. Sure it's possible to cross-reference from the bank to the shop, but that requires compliance from the shop and isn't usually done unless there is a good reason for it.

I'm not saying there is no problem at all, but it's far from being that serious in most cases. As long as you can still pay in cash when you really need to, I'm fine with using electronic payment as often as possible, it's more convenient, safer money-wise (less risk of theft, ...) and hygiene-wise (especially during pandemics, but not only).

And that bank transaction is tied to a vendors sales receipt which in this day and age is itemized. its just a couple of database queries, if you have access its a piece of cake to get it.

Edit: rereading what you wrote you see the risk, and just underestimate the ease of cracking it.

[Anagonia]

Or they are homeless and just want your money, not you investigating their life to see if they really deserve help.

So just give homeless people money without considering the consequences based on the circumstances?