American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

[Suriyanakhon]

That's essentially more or less it. It's less a comparison of ideologies, and more about antics. The more extreme the ideology to the left and right the more prone to totalitarianism and authoritarianism they become to the point they largely indistinguishable. Hence while Fascist Germnay an Stalinist Russia were identically opposed, there's little difference between the two in terms of violence and authoritarianism.

Both regimes were responsible for atrocities, albeit the Nazi's were far more reaching and murderous, but in terms of governance, their states were radically different from each other. Horseshoe theory doesn't look at the details and just makes generalizations.

[Shrillland]

That's essentially more or less it. It's less a comparison of ideologies, and more about antics. The more extreme the ideology to the left and right the more prone to totalitarianism and authoritarianism they become to the point they largely indistinguishable. Hence while Fascist Germnay an Stalinist Russia were identically opposed, there's little difference between the two in terms of violence and authoritarianism.

Both regimes were responsible for atrocities, albeit the Nazi's were far more reaching and murderous, but in terms of governance, their states were radically different from each other. Horseshoe theory doesn't look at the details and just makes generalizations.

There is, however, a reason it ignores the details. Simply, it's because dead is dead, and a state that commits crimes in the name of its ideology is ultimately like any other state that does the same, regardless of the differences that these ideologies have. The more extreme the ideology, left or right, the more likely it is to suppress things like individual liberties, human rights, and ultimately life itself.

[Comerciante]

I cast KOWANI to change the subject, and vanish in a puff of chicken feathers!

I'm sorry but it's turn one and you need at least a new thread or 5 mana to cast KOWANI.

[Shrillland]

I cast KOWANI to change the subject, and vanish in a puff of chicken feathers!

I'm sorry but it's turn one and you need at least a new thread or 5 mana to cast KOWANI.

I have the new thread all ready, I just need to wait until we hit 500.

[Punished UMN]

Both regimes were responsible for atrocities, albeit the Nazi's were far more reaching and murderous, but in terms of governance, their states were radically different from each other. Horseshoe theory doesn't look at the details and just makes generalizations.

There is, however, a reason it ignores the details. Simply, it's because dead is dead, and a state that commits crimes in the name of its ideology is ultimately like any other state that does the same, regardless of the differences that these ideologies have. The more extreme the ideology, left or right, the more likely it is to suppress things like individual liberties, human rights, and ultimately life itself.

The issue with that worldview is that it fundamentally sees exclusively liberal democracy as normative and not as an ideology itself. When you are explicitly defining totalitarianism as merely being illiberal (the suppression of individual liberties and human rights; I don't want to go into the idea of the suppression of life, that is the function of the state explicitly), then you're merely proving Nilo's point, which is that "totalitarian" doesn't mean anything substantial, it's just a snarlword for anything that isn't the status quo. You're letting one ideology (liberalism) define all perspective on statecraft and political norms. When you look at history and the fundamentals of statecraft, especially from a theoretical standpoint, this way of viewing the world collapses.

[Shrillland]

There is, however, a reason it ignores the details. Simply, it's because dead is dead, and a state that commits crimes in the name of its ideology is ultimately like any other state that does the same, regardless of the differences that these ideologies have. The more extreme the ideology, left or right, the more likely it is to suppress things like individual liberties, human rights, and ultimately life itself.

The issue with that worldview is that it fundamentally sees exclusively liberal democracy as normative and not as an ideology itself. When you are explicitly defining totalitarianism as merely being illiberal (the suppression of individual liberties and human rights; I don't want to go into the idea of the suppression of life, that is the function of the state explicitly), then you're merely proving Nilo's point, which is that "totalitarian" doesn't mean anything substantial, it's just a snarlword for anything that isn't the status quo. You're letting one ideology (liberalism) define all perspective on statecraft and political norms. When you look at history and the fundamentals of statecraft, especially from a theoretical standpoint, this way of viewing the world collapses.

True enough. Horseshoe Theory is mostly concerned with protecting the ideals of liberalism and it does make it seem like liberal democracy is the only truly successful form of state when we've seen plenty of other illiberal and undemocratic states thrive without resorting to mass killing, the neo-Khanates of Central Asia, for example, or most of modern Russia.

[Senkaku]

I see you finally called out the 500000000 pound elephant in the room. I was waiting for someone else to just call a spade a spade.

You’re acting like this is some new discovery. I never made my “establishment” views a secret.

Being “pro-establishment” is a view that I thought was edgy and smart at fucking 14! I’m not saying I have all the answers now either, but I’m definitely closer than I was then— come the fuck on, the American ruling class isn’t going to give you anything for smarmily ingratiating yourself to their causes on obscure forums. No one inside the Beltway has any idea you exist and they’re not going to suddenly become aware of you if you just act as a good little party functionary in the volunteer or professional apparatuses for the next few decades either. You’ll be sixty before a state legislature seat even opens up, and lucky if you’ve managed to get all your ducks in a row to even secure that

[Greater Miami Shores]

Dude, I honestly don't understand your statement?

Now you know how it feels to be us, for once.

Anyway, it appeared you were trying to distance yourself from said poster. Rereading your post I realize now you were trying to defend said poster and that's a shame, considering that poster was a DOS who was trolling and making a mockery of Trump supporters.

I have made it very clear, as far as we are concerned, we think no matter what we say, post or link too you leftists and anti Trump Persons will never agree with us on these issues.

loll, my English Not Very Good, Not Very Bad Either. So you and you guys are 100 % Percent wrong, did I GMS of all Persons say wrong. As I stated too you, all Republican Trump supporters strongly agree with my views and I strongly agree with theirs? We strongly agree with President Trump, what a shock? I think this Dos Person got Dos because he is a Dos.

If the Dos Poster other than being a Dos:
If the Dos Poster made Pro Trump comments with out breaking any NS rules I don't see any problems with it. If the Dos Poster was making Pro Trump comments trolling anti Trump Persons, than he got what he deserves.

Just like if a leftist Poster was making anti Trump comments without breaking any NS Rules I don't see any problems with it. If a Leftist Poster was making anti Trump comments and was trolling anti Trump Persons, than he would get what he deserves.

I realized years ago and after the 2016 election results and after the capitol building violence by he minority of right wingers who committed the violence I keep condemning, just like I keep condemning the violence by the minority of leftists who committed the leftist violence and are still committing leftist violence from time to time, that we will never agree with each other on these issues. There is no other ways of saying it.

I realized years ago, the best way for all of us to be civil and get along, is for me and all of us to stop posting about these particular issues, and my problems and our problems solved. We all have gone back and forth on these issues every day and we never agree with each other and we will never agree with each other. But it is hard to do, it is hard to stop defending President Trump and the Republicans on these issues. because as far as I and us are concerned President Trump is not guilty as charged by the leftist media and leftist, liberal, Democratic, Progressive Party,

I have explained how you guys do the same thing I do every day on all your posts in reverse. You all repeat the same anti Republicans and anti Trump substance on all your posts. Granted you use a larger vocabulary than I do. But the negative substance of your Posts is the same, every day on all your Posts.

This applies to Republican President Trump and all Republican Politicians and VIPs:

I have made it very clear as far we are concerned, President Trump is not guilty of the Democrat and Leftist media charges against him. No matter what you guys or any persons says, thinks, posts or links too. I have made it very clear the only thing we strongly agree with the leftists and anti Trump Persons on President Trump is, President Trump is not a Gentleman, and we all know how President Trump is not a Gentleman. It used to be on my Sigs.

I have made it very clear, we will never agree with the leftists or any persons who say, President Trump is no good, President Trump is bad, President Trump is evil, President Trump does not care about Democracy, President Trump does not care about honest and free fair elections, President Trump is guilty and responsible for the virus crisis that is killing Americans and Persons all over the world. Blame the virus, you guys never blame the virus, or Blame Biden now. President Trump is not guilty of Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. President Trump is not guilty of Ukraine Gate.

I have made it very clear, as far as we are concerned, President Trump and President Ronald Reagan, are the 2 Greatest American Presidents ever of the USA, No matter what any of you guys and Persons, say, think, believe and link too.

I have made it very clear as far as we are concerned, we are American Patriot Citizens of the USA, with Pride and Honor. No matter what any of you guys say, think, believe and link too.

I have made it very clear as far as I and us are concerned, Republican President Ronald Reagan, the original Make America Great Again President of the USA, is a Gentleman, they don't make them like Republican President Ronald Reagan any more.

I have made it very clear, we will never agree with each other on these Points, no matter what you guys and any Persons, say, think, believe and link too. There is no other ways of saying it.

I Rest My Case and I Rest Our Case.

[Kowani]

Judge blocks CDC from enforcing cruise restrictions

A federal judge said Friday that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cannot enforce the rules and restrictions it designed to make cruise travel safer amid the pandemic.

U.S. District Judge Steven Merryday granted the state of Florida a preliminary injunction against the health agency, writing that the state was “highly likely” to prevail in its suit, which argues that the agency exceeded its authority by issuing a framework of rules on how to reopen.
Instead, the judge ruled, beginning on July 18 the CDC’s rules for operating cruise ships must be considered nonbinding guidelines or recommendations.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) claimed the ruling as a victory.

“The CDC has been wrong all along, and they knew it,” he said in a statement provided to The Washington Post.

The agency had told cruise ship operators they first needed to build onboard laboratories to process coronavirus tests. Next, the companies needed to complete a simulated cruise on each ship to demonstrate COVID-19 prevention strategies, and make plans ahead of time with health care providers in port cities in case someone onboard came down with the virus.

The CDC would issue a “conditional sailing certificate” to individual ships that could show they planned to sail with at least 95% of passengers vaccinated against COVID-19. The agency had argued that the threat of unchecked COVID-19 spread outweighed any economic injury to the state caused by the restrictions, and that cruise ships were poised to create superspreader events unless handled with care.

In Florida, around 44% of the population is fully vaccinated.

The CDC had issued a series of “no sail orders” from mid-March 2020 through October 2020 amid increasing concern over the coronavirus pandemic. Some of the earliest cases in the United States were detected on a cruise ship docked off the coast.

At the end of October, the CDC laid out a plan to safely resume cruises; Florida filed suit in April following industry complaints.

[Kilobugya]

Nixon was pretty good. If it wasn’t for him we wouldn’t have had the EPA and OSHA

Nixon was a crook. But worst, he's the one behind Pinochet coup against Allende and 20 years of dictatorship in Chile. There is no forgiveness for that crime, none of any good he might have done can redeem that. He also has a huge responsibility in the disastrous for-profit healthcare insurance system.

[The Black Forrest]

Eh? How does a wannabe trump do better then the original?

Say what you will about the riot bill(could have handled it better), he is more neutral than Trump on some issues, like marijuana and the environment(the last one at least in the everglades). He also did flip a county, and increased the lead in the black-majority Gadsen county and Tampa bay area. In addition, he has military service and is far more likable.

Hmmm.

Pot gets trotted out as an effort to move the needle back a little. The environment? I think his motivation is more about the everglades since that’s a big attraction for Florida. Now on a national level or other states? I think he will probably favor the other side. The county is impressive. The question? Can he do that in counties in other states when known as a trumpist?

The military? Sure it might help. I am not so sure it will help with the younger generation. They don’t seem impressed by that like our parents and grand parents. Basically; the older vote and they were probably going to vote that way anyway.

if he does get the nod? He will probably go full trump to maintain the existing base. It’s not enough to carry it to the white house. This is why you see all the voter suppression efforts in states. The only way back is try an discourage enough opposition votes to not bother voting.

[Alcala-Cordel]

We all live in the same reality, and in this reality some things are simply true and some aren't. This does not stop each of us from having our own unique outlooks on life, but the judgements we make have never been and will never be facts. Opinions can be formed given any form of input from facts to outright lies, so they as such should never be referred to as facts.

The above statement is objectively factual, unless I made some error writing it. This isn't my perception of the world, this is just reality. On the other hand, if I were to say "Elon Musk is a disgusting parasite" I would not be making a factual statement despite the reality that he uses unethical labor practices. I believe that he's a parasite with every fiber of my being, it just isn't what you would call a fact.

[Grenartia]

That's essentially more or less it. It's less a comparison of ideologies, and more about antics. The more extreme the ideology to the left and right the more prone to totalitarianism and authoritarianism they become to the point they largely indistinguishable. Hence while Fascist Germnay an Stalinist Russia were identically opposed, there's little difference between the two in terms of violence and authoritarianism.

Both regimes were responsible for atrocities, albeit the Nazi's were far more reaching and murderous, but in terms of governance, their states were radically different from each other. Horseshoe theory doesn't look at the details and just makes generalizations.

Like, I can envision a mostly accurate map of the political compass that describes the various interactions of the 4 quadrants, but it would definitely not look like a horseshoe, and I'm not even sure I have the skills to depict it in 2 dimensions.

[The Black Forrest]

*accidentally hit submit before I was done*

[The Black Forrest]

Now you know how it feels to be us, for once.

Anyway, it appeared you were trying to distance yourself from said poster. Rereading your post I realize now you were trying to defend said poster and that's a shame, considering that poster was a DOS who was trolling and making a mockery of Trump supporters.

I have made it very clear, as far as we are concerned, we think no matter what we say, post or link too you leftists and anti Trump Persons will never agree with us on these issues.

You are wrong with that statement. Post the truth on an issue or a compelling argument and you would get a different response.

Now if you are talking about your propensity to share trumps lies? You are right. No matter how may times you post the lie; nobody will believe you.

loll, my English Not Very Good, Not Very Bad Either. So you and you guys are 100 % Percent wrong, did I GMS of all Persons say wrong. As I stated too you, all Republican Trump supporters strongly agree with my views and I strongly agree with theirs? We strongly agree with President Trump, what a shock? I think this Dos Person got Dos because he is a Dos.

That….is a tad convoluted. As it came across anyone who doesn’t belive trumps lies; are wrong.

If the Dos Poster other than being a Dos:
If the Dos Poster made Pro Trump comments with out breaking any NS rules I don't see any problems with it. If the Dos Poster was making Pro Trump comments trolling anti Trump Persons, than he got what he deserves.

Re-Read what he posted. I think you missed what he meant.

Just like if a leftist Poster was making anti Trump comments without breaking any NS Rules I don't see any problems with it. If a Leftist Poster was making anti Trump comments and was trolling anti Trump Persons, than he would get what he deserves.

I realized years ago and after the 2016 election results and after the capitol building violence by he minority of right wingers who committed the violence I keep condemning, just like I keep condemning the violence by the minority of leftists who committed the leftist violence and are still committing leftist violence from time to time, that we will never agree with each other on these issues. There is no other ways of saying it.

Here is the thing of it. The trumpists are trying to white wash the event. Condemnation of violence looses it’s value when you won’t condem the trump party leadership for the actions to inflame people.

Mentioning It was a small group sounds good. The problem? A much smaller amount of people tried to help the police with these proud USA trump supporters where beating up police.

I realized years ago, the best way for all of us to be civil and get along, is for me and all of us to stop posting about these particular issues,

What issues? The trump lies? Those are not things that improve the lives of the people.

and my problems and our problems solved. We all have gone back and forth on these issues every day and we never agree with each other and we will never agree with each other. But it is hard to do, it is hard to stop defending President Trump and the Republicans on these issues. because as far as I and us are concerned President Trump is not guilty as charged by the leftist media and leftist, liberal, Democratic, Progressive Party,

The only people who believe the trump lies are the maga people. The funny thing? When people know it’s a lie; you can’t change their views and that has annoyed you to no end. You keep copy and pasting the same things and you keep getting told you are wrong. People no longer bother with evidence as they figured out you won’t read it and learn from it.

This is why you have ended up on so many block lists.

I have explained how you guys do the same thing I do every day on all your posts in reverse. You all repeat the same anti Republicans and anti Trump substance on all your posts. Granted you use a larger vocabulary than I do. But the negative substance of your Posts is the same, every day on all your Posts.

If that was your intent; it didn’t work that well.

Pick something and try it again just so we know what you are trying to do.

This applies to Republican President Trump and all Republican Politicians and VIPs:

I have made it very clear as far we are concerned, President Trump is not guilty of the Democrat and Leftist media charges against him.

Ok. He was cleared in the court of politics especially by the Senate with a majority of trumpists. Even we evil liberals knew he wasn’t going to be removed from office. The trump party wants to keep the trump base so absolution of guilt was paramount.

You will probably see him get convicted over the civil court issues. I am going to guess you will declare them invalid as it’s all bias and anti-trump driven. Being a trumpist; the truth is not something you want.

No matter what you guys or any persons says, thinks, posts or links too. I have made it very clear the only thing we strongly agree with the leftists and anti Trump Persons on President Trump is, President Trump is not a Gentleman, and we all know how President Trump is not a Gentleman. It used to be on my Sigs.

Here let me reduce that for you. “It’s just trump being trump”

That’s about a limp as you can get for a criticism of a President. It does not address any of the big issues.

I have made it very clear, we will never agree with the leftists or any persons who say, President Trump is no good,

The only good things he has done is a presidential medal or two.

President Trump is bad,

He pretty much is. What lasting thing can you say he did for the American people which will be remembered as good policy.

President Trump is evil,

Evil as in Voldemort? Hmmmmm?

Lack of empathy; yes. A cruel and vindictive man; yes.

President Trump does not care about Democracy, President Trump does not care about honest and free fair elections,

No he doesn’t. The Big Lie proves this. The 80+ lawsuits thrown out proves this. The fact Arizona and Georgia are in continuous recounts proves this (even Hillary conceded when she could have pulled the crap the trumpists have done)

President Trump is guilty and responsible for the virus crisis that is killing Americans and Persons all over the world.

Only you say that.

As you have been told many many times. Trump bungled the management of the pandemic in the US. Left to just about anybody else; we would probably have only had 200000ish dead. Been already on the road to recovery…..

Trump mismanaged it and worked against the efforts of others.

Blame the virus, you guys never blame the virus,

Why should we blame covid for trumps incompetence over the management of the pandemic. Trump was a blessing for covid.

or Blame Biden now.

Actually if Biden had managed it; we would have been much lower in the statistics and we would not see countries saying “we don’t want americans here while their pandemic problem is out of control.”

President Trump is not guilty of Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. President Trump is not guilty of Ukraine Gate.

Oh time will tell on that one. It’s not illegal for politicians to lie. They can’t lie in court.

I have made it very clear, as far as we are concerned, President Trump and President Ronald Reagan, are the 2 Greatest American Presidents ever of the USA,

I don’t know why you keep trying to link the two. Reagan would not have liked Trump. Trump violated Reagans rule of speaking ill of other republicans. Trump himself blasted Reagan over issues.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... an-213288/

No matter what any of you guys and Persons, say, think, believe and link too.

I have made it very clear as far as we are concerned, we are American Patriot Citizens of the USA, with Pride and Honor. No matter what any of you guys say, think, believe and link too.

Well that is pretty much a confession you are not concerned about the truth. It’s obvious as you only mention sources which are echo chambers to support your invalid views.

Ignorance is not something to be proud over.

I have made it very clear as far as I and us are concerned, Republican President Ronald Reagan, the original Make America Great Again President of the USA, is a Gentleman, they don't make them like Republican President Ronald Reagan any more.

Again the attempt to link trump to Reagan.

Compared to trump the most vulgar sailor, construction worker, whatever is more of a gentlemen.

I have made it very clear, we will never agree with each other on these Points, no matter what you guys and any Persons, say, think, believe and link too. There is no other ways of saying it.

I Rest My Case and I Rest Our Case.

We get it. The truth, learning, democracy, etc., are things you are not concerned about.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Mfw 12 pages of treason.
I see last night has been... productive?

The only good things he has done is a presidential medal or two.

Arguably the medal to Rush Limbaugh should be revoked in disgrace.

[The Black Forrest]

Mfw 12 pages of treason.
I see last night has been... productive?

The only good things he has done is a presidential medal or two.

Arguably the medal to Rush Limbaugh should be revoked in disgrace.

Indeed. Especially; when you consider the amount of vial things he said on the air over the years.

[Grenartia]

Both regimes were responsible for atrocities, albeit the Nazi's were far more reaching and murderous, but in terms of governance, their states were radically different from each other. Horseshoe theory doesn't look at the details and just makes generalizations.

Like, I can envision a mostly accurate map of the political compass that describes the various interactions of the 4 quadrants, but it would definitely not look like a horseshoe, and I'm not even sure I have the skills to depict it in 2 dimensions.

Did it.

[Kowani]

CYBERPUNK DYSTOPIA

A recent string of problems suggests facial recognition's reliability issues are hurting people in a moment of need. Motherboard reports that there are ongoing complaints about the ID.me facial recognition system at least 21 states use to verify people seeking unemployment benefits. People have gone weeks or months without benefits when the Face Match system doesn't verify their identities, and have sometimes had no luck getting help through a video chat system meant to solve these problems.

ID.me chief Blake Hall blamed the problems on users rather than the technology. Face Match algorithms have "99.9% efficacy," he said, and there was "no relationship" between skin tone and recognition failures. Hall instead suggested that people weren't sharing selfies properly or otherwise weren't following instructions. Motherboard noted that at least some people have three attempts to pass the facial recognition check, though. The outlet also pointed out that the company's claims of national unemployment fraud costs have ballooned rapidly in just the past few months, from a reported $100 billion to $400 billion. While Hall attributed that to expanding "data points," he didn't say just how his firm calculated the damage. It's not clear just what the real fraud threat is, in other words.

Whatever is happening with ID.me's technology, the incidents highlight one of the reasons federal and state governments hope to limit facial recognition. Even if privacy and security aren't issues, they don't appear to be reliable enough to avoid significant issues. That 99.9 percent success rate could still leave many people without benefits they're eligible to claim. Systems like this may need to be considerably more trustworthy to eliminate these headaches in the future.

[Nilokeras]

Like, I can envision a mostly accurate map of the political compass that describes the various interactions of the 4 quadrants, but it would definitely not look like a horseshoe, and I'm not even sure I have the skills to depict it in 2 dimensions.

Did it.

Add in a 'Pinochet was based actually' spur further along the pipeline to connect it to the far right and a 'what if resenting feminism/the trans agenda/brown people is real socialism' backwash channel from libleft to the auth right and you just might have something there

[Grenartia]

Did it.

Add in a 'Pinochet was based actually' spur further along the pipeline to connect it to the far right

I mean, that's already 90% of the pipeline.

and a 'what if resenting feminism/the trans agenda/brown people is real socialism' backwash channel from libleft to the auth right and you just might have something there

I can't say I've seen that one, though that just seems like a less based libleft to authleft pipeline. I can at least respect the "libleft except when landlords are involved" types.

[The United Confederacy of Texas]

Well, that was an interesting read to catch up to

Anyways, since the thread's gonna be limit-locked at some point in the next 24 hours, might as well put one last post in before we go to Thread VI

[The Reformed American Republic]

Both regimes were responsible for atrocities, albeit the Nazi's were far more reaching and murderous, but in terms of governance, their states were radically different from each other. Horseshoe theory doesn't look at the details and just makes generalizations.

Like, I can envision a mostly accurate map of the political compass that describes the various interactions of the 4 quadrants, but it would definitely not look like a horseshoe, and I'm not even sure I have the skills to depict it in 2 dimensions.

Horseshoe theory has some merit to it. It's not applicable in all situations, but it is not completely meritless.

[Qassemist Soviet Iraq]

I still hold out hope that someday, the American working class will rise up and overthrow capitalism. But until then....sigh.

[Suriyanakhon]

Like, I can envision a mostly accurate map of the political compass that describes the various interactions of the 4 quadrants, but it would definitely not look like a horseshoe, and I'm not even sure I have the skills to depict it in 2 dimensions.

Horseshoe theory has some merit to it. It's not applicable in all situations, but it is not completely meritless.

It just relies on generalizations about historical movements which assumes that liberal democracy is the norm and that opposition to the norm indicates some shared similarities between vastly different ideologies.