Trial of Derek Chauvin: A Juror Supported What?!

[Silvedania]

George Floyd wasn't murdered, he died of cardiac arrest because he had taken four times the lethal amount of fentanyl. I look forward to Derek Chauvin's acquittal but it's a shame he and the other officers had to go through all this when they did nothing wrong.

While he had high amounts of Fenatyl in his system, it didn't lead to his death. Also Derek Chauvin did do something wrong. He literally kneeled on a person for a sustained period of time, which, even if it didn't kill him, would be considered battery.

Also, he didn't have nearly as much fenatyl as the lethal amount.

[Shofercia]

That's very different though. First, you had the fire department confirm the police department's version, and the firemen were on scene. Because of fucked up healthcare in the US, quite a few people, including white people, rely on firemen for paramedics, and firemen are widely trusted as a result. You may agree or disagree with it, but that's the way it is. Second, you had the dude allegedly going for the gun. Third, there was no camera footage.

so, several things
firstly, we do have (some) camera footage-it's literally in the article
conveniently for the officers, their body-cams just mysteriously fell off
but thankfully, better investigators than you or i went through it
and they found several things
firstly, that the police had no legal basis to stop, frisk or use a chokehold on him
secondly, that (totally surprising), the cops were lying about the details of the encounter
""The body worn camera audio, limited video, and Major Crime’s interviews with the officers tell two contrasting stories," [...] "The officers’ statements on the scene and in subsequent recorded interviews suggest a violent and relentless struggle." But the "limited video, and the audio from the body worn cameras, reveal Mr. McClain surrounded by officers, all larger than he, crying out in pain, apologizing, explaining himself, and pleading with the officers."
"The audio of the incident records Mr. McClain crying out in pain, apologizing, vomiting, and at times sounding incoherent. His words were apologetic and confused, not angry or threatening.""

the problem is, they used 2 holds
one before McClain allegedly went for the gun (justified via department policy and basic principles of self defense)
and a second one, once he was already on the ground
"An officer’s authority to use force depends on whether the officer reasonably perceived he was in danger at the precise moment that force was used, and must be calibrated to the amount of resistance from the subject. Once he was lying on the ground, Mr. McClain’s ability to reach an officer’s gun or other weapons was limited by the fact that Officer Woodyard was on the ground behind him, with his gun and pepper spray pinned beneath him. If Mr. McClain was no longer presenting a threat of harm to the officers, there would have been no justification for Officer
Woodyard to apply a carotid hold. The video footage at this moment does not clearly show what was happening. In their post-incident interviews, none of the officers were asked about the threat posed once Mr. McClain was on the ground. Officer Woodyard explained the danger he perceived when he heard Officer Roedema’s statement “he grabbed your gun” but the questioning by Major Crime investigators did not distinguish between the threat when Mr. McClain was standing, and when he was on the ground. The record therefore does not provide evidence of the officers’ perception of a threat that would justify Officer Wooddyard’s carotid hold, which caused Mr. McClain to either partially or fully lose consciousness."

and we also know that the fire department behaved shittily too
"As detailed below, emergency medical services (“EMS”) personnel from Aurora Fire arrived at the scene at approximately 10:53 P.M. but stood back and did not render aid to Mr. McClain for several minutes, until a paramedic administered ketamine. During this period, Mr. McClain could be heard moaning, gagging, responding to the officers’ statements, exclaiming in pain, and struggling to breathe. Emergency personnel were also informed that police had applied a carotid control hold. Despite his apparent distress and the fact that a carotid control hold had
been applied, the body worn camera footage does not reflect any attempt by Aurora Fire to examine or question Mr. McClain before the administration of ketamine. Further, prior to the injection of ketamine, there was no physical contact by any of the Aurora Fire or EMS personnel captured in the footage or reported during post-incident interviews. While trained medical personnel can learn
a great deal from simple observation, more is required for effective clinical decision making, including talking to and touching the patient and measuring vital signs. Other simple diagnostic procedures also could have been employed. Instead, Aurora Fire appears to have decided to sedate Mr. McClain without conducting anything more than brief visual observation."

hell, we even know that the ketamine dosage was inappropriate
"The decision to administer ketamine was made by Aurora Fire Paramedic Jeremy Cooper, who had arrived on the scene around 10:53 P.M., observed Mr. McClain on the ground, and determined that his behavior was consistent with “excited delirium,” a syndrome characterized by
increasing excitement with wild agitation and violent, often destructive behavior. Aurora Fire Lt. Peter Cichuniec advised Falck Rocky Mountain to draw up a 500 milligram dose of ketamine based on his inaccurate estimation that Mr. McClain weighed about 190 pounds. At 10:59 P.M.
or 11:00 P.M., Paramedic Cooper administered the ketamine to Mr. McClain. At the time of the injection, Mr. McClain had not moved or made any sounds for about one minute. Aurora Fire appears to have accepted the officers’ impression that Mr. McClain had excited
delirium without corroborating that impression through meaningful observation or diagnostic examination of Mr. McClain. As stated above, during the time that Aurora Fire was on the scene, Mr. McClain’s behavior in the presence of EMS should have raised questions for EMS personnel
as to whether excited delirium was the appropriate diagnosis. Aurora Fire protocols permitted the administration of ketamine for a patient with symptoms of excited delirium and where there were concerns regarding the patient’s or others’ safety. Aurora EMS determined it was appropriate to administer ketamine to Mr. McClain despite the fact that he did not appear to be offering meaningful resistance in the presence of EMS personnel. In addition, EMS administered a ketamine dosage based on a grossly inaccurate and inflated estimate of Mr. McClain’s size. Higher doses can carry a higher risk of sedation complications, for which this team was not clearly prepared."

the cops lied
the fire department-or at least the personnel on the scene helped cover it up-partly because they too took part in the murder

Good points. However, while there's a well known bias that cops have against black males, the bias of the firemen against anyone is not well known, if it even exists. The fact that the firemen backed the cops, even if both were in the wrong, certainly contributed to the acquittal, (or, in this case a lack of trial,) even if it wasn't supposed to. There's a great show, Bull, about trial science, and one of the often repeated lines is this:

Judge to the Courtroom: "The Jury will disregard disregard the statement"
Bull to himself: "no, they won't"

I'm not saying that's how I would've ruled in McLaine's case. I'd want to know more facts, which you've provided. I am saying that because of the firemen's intervention, comparing McLaine's case to Floyd's is like comparing apples and oranges, because, as far as I know, no credible figure came out in support of Chauvin's defense, whereas the firemen are usually viewed as credible, due to their paramedic abilities.

[Kowani]

so, several things
firstly, we do have (some) camera footage-it's literally in the article
conveniently for the officers, their body-cams just mysteriously fell off
but thankfully, better investigators than you or i went through it
and they found several things
firstly, that the police had no legal basis to stop, frisk or use a chokehold on him
secondly, that (totally surprising), the cops were lying about the details of the encounter
""The body worn camera audio, limited video, and Major Crime’s interviews with the officers tell two contrasting stories," [...] "The officers’ statements on the scene and in subsequent recorded interviews suggest a violent and relentless struggle." But the "limited video, and the audio from the body worn cameras, reveal Mr. McClain surrounded by officers, all larger than he, crying out in pain, apologizing, explaining himself, and pleading with the officers."
"The audio of the incident records Mr. McClain crying out in pain, apologizing, vomiting, and at times sounding incoherent. His words were apologetic and confused, not angry or threatening.""

the problem is, they used 2 holds
one before McClain allegedly went for the gun (justified via department policy and basic principles of self defense)
and a second one, once he was already on the ground
"An officer’s authority to use force depends on whether the officer reasonably perceived he was in danger at the precise moment that force was used, and must be calibrated to the amount of resistance from the subject. Once he was lying on the ground, Mr. McClain’s ability to reach an officer’s gun or other weapons was limited by the fact that Officer Woodyard was on the ground behind him, with his gun and pepper spray pinned beneath him. If Mr. McClain was no longer presenting a threat of harm to the officers, there would have been no justification for Officer
Woodyard to apply a carotid hold. The video footage at this moment does not clearly show what was happening. In their post-incident interviews, none of the officers were asked about the threat posed once Mr. McClain was on the ground. Officer Woodyard explained the danger he perceived when he heard Officer Roedema’s statement “he grabbed your gun” but the questioning by Major Crime investigators did not distinguish between the threat when Mr. McClain was standing, and when he was on the ground. The record therefore does not provide evidence of the officers’ perception of a threat that would justify Officer Wooddyard’s carotid hold, which caused Mr. McClain to either partially or fully lose consciousness."

and we also know that the fire department behaved shittily too
"As detailed below, emergency medical services (“EMS”) personnel from Aurora Fire arrived at the scene at approximately 10:53 P.M. but stood back and did not render aid to Mr. McClain for several minutes, until a paramedic administered ketamine. During this period, Mr. McClain could be heard moaning, gagging, responding to the officers’ statements, exclaiming in pain, and struggling to breathe. Emergency personnel were also informed that police had applied a carotid control hold. Despite his apparent distress and the fact that a carotid control hold had
been applied, the body worn camera footage does not reflect any attempt by Aurora Fire to examine or question Mr. McClain before the administration of ketamine. Further, prior to the injection of ketamine, there was no physical contact by any of the Aurora Fire or EMS personnel captured in the footage or reported during post-incident interviews. While trained medical personnel can learn
a great deal from simple observation, more is required for effective clinical decision making, including talking to and touching the patient and measuring vital signs. Other simple diagnostic procedures also could have been employed. Instead, Aurora Fire appears to have decided to sedate Mr. McClain without conducting anything more than brief visual observation."

hell, we even know that the ketamine dosage was inappropriate
"The decision to administer ketamine was made by Aurora Fire Paramedic Jeremy Cooper, who had arrived on the scene around 10:53 P.M., observed Mr. McClain on the ground, and determined that his behavior was consistent with “excited delirium,” a syndrome characterized by
increasing excitement with wild agitation and violent, often destructive behavior. Aurora Fire Lt. Peter Cichuniec advised Falck Rocky Mountain to draw up a 500 milligram dose of ketamine based on his inaccurate estimation that Mr. McClain weighed about 190 pounds. At 10:59 P.M.
or 11:00 P.M., Paramedic Cooper administered the ketamine to Mr. McClain. At the time of the injection, Mr. McClain had not moved or made any sounds for about one minute. Aurora Fire appears to have accepted the officers’ impression that Mr. McClain had excited
delirium without corroborating that impression through meaningful observation or diagnostic examination of Mr. McClain. As stated above, during the time that Aurora Fire was on the scene, Mr. McClain’s behavior in the presence of EMS should have raised questions for EMS personnel
as to whether excited delirium was the appropriate diagnosis. Aurora Fire protocols permitted the administration of ketamine for a patient with symptoms of excited delirium and where there were concerns regarding the patient’s or others’ safety. Aurora EMS determined it was appropriate to administer ketamine to Mr. McClain despite the fact that he did not appear to be offering meaningful resistance in the presence of EMS personnel. In addition, EMS administered a ketamine dosage based on a grossly inaccurate and inflated estimate of Mr. McClain’s size. Higher doses can carry a higher risk of sedation complications, for which this team was not clearly prepared."

the cops lied
the fire department-or at least the personnel on the scene helped cover it up-partly because they too took part in the murder

Good points. However, while there's a well known bias that cops have against black males, the bias of the firemen against anyone is not well known, if it even exists. The fact that the firemen backed the cops, even if both were in the wrong, certainly contributed to the acquittal, (or, in this case a lack of trial,) even if it wasn't supposed to. There's a great show, Bull, about trial science, and one of the often repeated lines is this:

Judge to the Courtroom: "The Jury will disregard disregard the statement"
Bull to himself: "no, they won't"

I'm not saying that's how I would've ruled in McLaine's case. I'd want to know more facts, which you've provided. I am saying that because of the firemen's intervention, comparing McLaine's case to Floyd's is like comparing apples and oranges, because, as far as I know, no credible figure came out in support of Chauvin's defense, whereas the firemen are usually viewed as credible, due to their paramedic abilities.

that's fair, yes

[Grenartia]

I have seen the light. George Floyd was clearly on 70 bajillion metric tons of fantanyl, and Derek Chauvin's only crime was giving him a merciful neck stepping to stave off his clearly imminent OD.

Disclaimer that this is obvious sarcasm. I shouldn't have to put this here, but oh well.

[Neanderthaland]

Again, the question is not whether George Floyd was a saint. I don't think he was, and it doesn't matter.

The question is whether the officers acted appropriately, which they clearly didn't.

[Ayytaly]

I have seen the light. George Floyd was clearly on 70 bajillion metric tons of fantanyl, and Derek Chauvin's only crime was giving him a merciful neck stepping to stave off his clearly imminent OD.

Disclaimer that this is obvious sarcasm. I shouldn't have to put this here, but oh well.

Chauvin was just doing his job, sir. *tips hat* Now that's what I call "public service."

/s

[Shofercia]

Good points. However, while there's a well known bias that cops have against black males, the bias of the firemen against anyone is not well known, if it even exists. The fact that the firemen backed the cops, even if both were in the wrong, certainly contributed to the acquittal, (or, in this case a lack of trial,) even if it wasn't supposed to. There's a great show, Bull, about trial science, and one of the often repeated lines is this:

Judge to the Courtroom: "The Jury will disregard disregard the statement"
Bull to himself: "no, they won't"

I'm not saying that's how I would've ruled in McLaine's case. I'd want to know more facts, which you've provided. I am saying that because of the firemen's intervention, comparing McLaine's case to Floyd's is like comparing apples and oranges, because, as far as I know, no credible figure came out in support of Chauvin's defense, whereas the firemen are usually viewed as credible, due to their paramedic abilities.

that's fair, yes

Also watching the trial, the prosecutor's fucking brilliant: "What's acceptable one minute might be unacceptable the next, force has to be reevaluated every moment"

[Rusozak]

Again, the question is not whether George Floyd was a saint. I don't think he was, and it doesn't matter.

The question is whether the officers acted appropriately, which they clearly didn't.

Although it is rather telling of the mindset some people have regarding police work. To think George Floyd's criminal status has any bearing on whether Chauvin unlawfully killed him implies a mindset that police are judge, jury, and executioner.

[Christian Confederation]

Again, the question is not whether George Floyd was a saint. I don't think he was, and it doesn't matter.

The question is whether the officers acted appropriately, which they clearly didn't.

Although it is rather telling of the mindset some people have regarding police work. To think George Floyd's criminal status has any bearing on whether Chauvin unlawfully killed him implies a mindset that police are judge, jury, and executioner.

There's nobody here who doesn't want to see this Piece of Crap see Justice for his abuse of power and Attributing to George Floyd's Death. Hell if I was in charge he would have life without parole. All that matters is this man is in the wrong and the public wants Justice. Some want Justice but the loud and extreme few want blood. Best we can do is set back and pray Justice will be served.

[Galloism]

that's fair, yes

Also watching the trial, the prosecutor's fucking brilliant: "What's acceptable one minute might be unacceptable the next, force has to be reevaluated every moment"

It’s very specifically true.

I mean, we have to give some leniency based on brain reaction time etc, but in the highly specific sense, once a person is handcuffed with their hands behind their back, their level of threat decreases dramatically, as does the acceptable amount of force to use.

If they are handcuffed and prone, the amount of acceptable force drops way down in the basement, unless they are Jackie Chan or Bruce lee or jet li or something.

[The Alma Mater]

Again, the question is not whether George Floyd was a saint. I don't think he was, and it doesn't matter.

The question is whether the officers acted appropriately, which they clearly didn't.

Although it is rather telling of the mindset some people have regarding police work. To think George Floyd's criminal status has any bearing on whether Chauvin unlawfully killed him implies a mindset that police are judge, jury, and executioner.

To be fair - if we assume the cop knew Floyd had a history of violence, the fact that Floyd was a huge man, the claim that he was under influence of drugs at the time and the claim that he started yelling "I can't breathe" while he was still sitting in the car it is not surprising the cop used force AND thought Floyd was mocking him when his knee was in his neck.

But that is a boatload of assumptions.

[Shofercia]

Also watching the trial, the prosecutor's fucking brilliant: "What's acceptable one minute might be unacceptable the next, force has to be reevaluated every moment"

It’s very specifically true.

I mean, we have to give some leniency based on brain reaction time etc, but in the highly specific sense, once a person is handcuffed with their hands behind their back, their level of threat decreases dramatically, as does the acceptable amount of force to use.

If they are handcuffed and prone, the amount of acceptable force drops way down in the basement, unless they are Jackie Chan or Bruce lee or jet li or something.

Oh I know it's true, if it was false I'd call him a fucking liar instead of fucking brilliant. It's just that the way he presented it forces the Jury to reassess the event at least nine times, each time weighing more and more against Chauvin and that's the brilliant part.

And what's with your anti-Asian racism there, you'd be fine with handcuffing Chuck Norris or Dwayne Johnson with regular force, but a Chan, a Lee, or a Li get even more force?

(I know you're not racist, just giving ya a hard time)

[The Alma Mater]

And what's with your anti-Asian racism there, you'd be fine with handcuffing Chuck Norris or Dwayne Johnson with regular force, but a Chan, a Lee, or a Li get even more force?

(I know you're not racist, just giving ya a hard time)

Remember - Chauvin loved Asians. He even married one. So Asians must be bad

[-SARS-]

After reading some sources (Not the BBC)I will admit I am wrong about the pregnant woman,but he was in jail for some time for both theft and cocaine

Any crimes Floyd might have committed in the past have no bearing on whether it was legal for Chauvin to kill him.

^This.

Whatever issues Floyd might have had, if he was still alive he would have a chance to work on them.

8 minutes is long enough for the cops to come up with a better plan besides Chauvin just sitting there with his knee on Floyd's neck. How and why they got there in the first place does not change the fact that he had time to come up with a better plan. 8 minutes is a long time for something like this.

[-SARS-]

Although it is rather telling of the mindset some people have regarding police work. To think George Floyd's criminal status has any bearing on whether Chauvin unlawfully killed him implies a mindset that police are judge, jury, and executioner.

To be fair - if we assume the cop knew Floyd had a history of violence, the fact that Floyd was a huge man, the claim that he was under influence of drugs at the time and the claim that he started yelling "I can't breathe" while he was still sitting in the car it is not surprising the cop used force AND thought Floyd was mocking him when his knee was in his neck.

But that is a boatload of assumptions.

That story about Floyd saying he couldn't breathe while he was in the car... If they thought he was making shit up, they should have just ignored it and let him yell his head off all the way to the station. If they thought he was really having trouble breathing, they should have taken him to a doctor. Even if it really happened, it still doesn't explain why Chauvin pinned him on the ground. It just makes no sense.

[Page]

George Floyd wasn't murdered, he died of cardiac arrest because he had taken four times the lethal amount of fentanyl. I look forward to Derek Chauvin's acquittal but it's a shame he and the other officers had to go through all this when they did nothing wrong.

Thinking that a person who overdosed on fentanyl could be wide awake seconds before death is the drug equivalent to thinking you can get pregnant from kissing. Get educated about drugs!

If he had taken a lethal dose of fentanyl before the incident in the store, the incident wouldn't have happened because he would have been asleep and unconscious. Or do you think he took it in the parking lot right before the cops came? Except if he had taken even half of the amount that would cause a lethal overdose, he wouldn't have been yelling and struggling against the cops, he would have just been lying on the ground apathetically, because people high off their balls on opioids don't give a shit about anything in that moment.

If you take enough opioids to kill you, first you nod off, then you fall asleep, then you go unconscious, and then you die when your breath stops.

I don't even know how much of this ridiculous lie comes from true ignorance about drugs and how much comes from grasping for straws to excuse the police for committing murder. If Floyd had psilocybin in his system, would people be claiming he died of a shrooms overdose? Fuck, probably.

[Christian Confederation]

To be fair - if we assume the cop knew Floyd had a history of violence, the fact that Floyd was a huge man, the claim that he was under influence of drugs at the time and the claim that he started yelling "I can't breathe" while he was still sitting in the car it is not surprising the cop used force AND thought Floyd was mocking him when his knee was in his neck.

But that is a boatload of assumptions.

That story about Floyd saying he couldn't breathe while he was in the car... If they thought he was making shit up, they should have just ignored it and let him yell his head off all the way to the station. If they thought he was really having trouble breathing, they should have taken him to a doctor. Even if it really happened, it still doesn't explain why Chauvin pinned him on the ground. It just makes no sense.

At the Time it was standard procedure to pin a resisting suspect like that long enough to cuff them. Why in God's name he held for nearly 10 minutes is beyond me. You would think that police would know the signs of an overdose (Assuming the Original Autopsy was correct) seeing how they deal with druggies all day.

[The Nihilistic view]

I'm not well versed in US law but after reading the Minisota laws on murder and manslaughter I think out of the three charged it's 3rd degree murder and Chauvin should get the full 25 years. The difficulty will be in proving intent for 2nd degree murder but I think clearly Floyd's death was as a result of "an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life" which would satisfy the 3rd degree. And as such it's an act that clearly goes above and beyond the manslaughter charge.

The poll doesn't have such an answer but I'm going for 3rd degree murder, 25 year sentence.

[Sundiata]

Chauvin killed George Floyd and if he is acquitted it wouldn't be the first time that power was abused.

[Page]

That's very different though. First, you had the fire department confirm the police department's version, and the firemen were on scene. Because of fucked up healthcare in the US, quite a few people, including white people, rely on firemen for paramedics, and firemen are widely trusted as a result. You may agree or disagree with it, but that's the way it is. Second, you had the dude allegedly going for the gun. Third, there was no camera footage.

so, several things
firstly, we do have (some) camera footage-it's literally in the article
conveniently for the officers, their body-cams just mysteriously fell off
but thankfully, better investigators than you or i went through it
and they found several things
firstly, that the police had no legal basis to stop, frisk or use a chokehold on him
secondly, that (totally surprising), the cops were lying about the details of the encounter
""The body worn camera audio, limited video, and Major Crime’s interviews with the officers tell two contrasting stories," [...] "The officers’ statements on the scene and in subsequent recorded interviews suggest a violent and relentless struggle." But the "limited video, and the audio from the body worn cameras, reveal Mr. McClain surrounded by officers, all larger than he, crying out in pain, apologizing, explaining himself, and pleading with the officers."
"The audio of the incident records Mr. McClain crying out in pain, apologizing, vomiting, and at times sounding incoherent. His words were apologetic and confused, not angry or threatening.""

the problem is, they used 2 holds
one before McClain allegedly went for the gun (justified via department policy and basic principles of self defense)
and a second one, once he was already on the ground
"An officer’s authority to use force depends on whether the officer reasonably perceived he was in danger at the precise moment that force was used, and must be calibrated to the amount of resistance from the subject. Once he was lying on the ground, Mr. McClain’s ability to reach an officer’s gun or other weapons was limited by the fact that Officer Woodyard was on the ground behind him, with his gun and pepper spray pinned beneath him. If Mr. McClain was no longer presenting a threat of harm to the officers, there would have been no justification for Officer
Woodyard to apply a carotid hold. The video footage at this moment does not clearly show what was happening. In their post-incident interviews, none of the officers were asked about the threat posed once Mr. McClain was on the ground. Officer Woodyard explained the danger he perceived when he heard Officer Roedema’s statement “he grabbed your gun” but the questioning by Major Crime investigators did not distinguish between the threat when Mr. McClain was standing, and when he was on the ground. The record therefore does not provide evidence of the officers’ perception of a threat that would justify Officer Wooddyard’s carotid hold, which caused Mr. McClain to either partially or fully lose consciousness."

and we also know that the fire department behaved shittily too
"As detailed below, emergency medical services (“EMS”) personnel from Aurora Fire arrived at the scene at approximately 10:53 P.M. but stood back and did not render aid to Mr. McClain for several minutes, until a paramedic administered ketamine. During this period, Mr. McClain could be heard moaning, gagging, responding to the officers’ statements, exclaiming in pain, and struggling to breathe. Emergency personnel were also informed that police had applied a carotid control hold. Despite his apparent distress and the fact that a carotid control hold had
been applied, the body worn camera footage does not reflect any attempt by Aurora Fire to examine or question Mr. McClain before the administration of ketamine. Further, prior to the injection of ketamine, there was no physical contact by any of the Aurora Fire or EMS personnel captured in the footage or reported during post-incident interviews. While trained medical personnel can learn
a great deal from simple observation, more is required for effective clinical decision making, including talking to and touching the patient and measuring vital signs. Other simple diagnostic procedures also could have been employed. Instead, Aurora Fire appears to have decided to sedate Mr. McClain without conducting anything more than brief visual observation."

hell, we even know that the ketamine dosage was inappropriate
"The decision to administer ketamine was made by Aurora Fire Paramedic Jeremy Cooper, who had arrived on the scene around 10:53 P.M., observed Mr. McClain on the ground, and determined that his behavior was consistent with “excited delirium,” a syndrome characterized by
increasing excitement with wild agitation and violent, often destructive behavior. Aurora Fire Lt. Peter Cichuniec advised Falck Rocky Mountain to draw up a 500 milligram dose of ketamine based on his inaccurate estimation that Mr. McClain weighed about 190 pounds. At 10:59 P.M.
or 11:00 P.M., Paramedic Cooper administered the ketamine to Mr. McClain. At the time of the injection, Mr. McClain had not moved or made any sounds for about one minute. Aurora Fire appears to have accepted the officers’ impression that Mr. McClain had excited
delirium without corroborating that impression through meaningful observation or diagnostic examination of Mr. McClain. As stated above, during the time that Aurora Fire was on the scene, Mr. McClain’s behavior in the presence of EMS should have raised questions for EMS personnel
as to whether excited delirium was the appropriate diagnosis. Aurora Fire protocols permitted the administration of ketamine for a patient with symptoms of excited delirium and where there were concerns regarding the patient’s or others’ safety. Aurora EMS determined it was appropriate to administer ketamine to Mr. McClain despite the fact that he did not appear to be offering meaningful resistance in the presence of EMS personnel. In addition, EMS administered a ketamine dosage based on a grossly inaccurate and inflated estimate of Mr. McClain’s size. Higher doses can carry a higher risk of sedation complications, for which this team was not clearly prepared."

the cops lied
the fire department-or at least the personnel on the scene helped cover it up-partly because they too took part in the murder

Let's be super clear about Elijah McClain. If one of the craziest, YOLO druggies I know was going to take half of the amount of ketamine the cops murdered McClain with, I would not think they are trying to get high, I would think they are deliberately attempting suicide.

That was first degree murder. It is the chemical equivalent of shooting someone in the head point blank and then saying "I didn't want to kill them, I just wanted the bullet to knock him out."

[Kannap]

that's fair, yes

Also watching the trial, the prosecutor's fucking brilliant: "What's acceptable one minute might be unacceptable the next, force has to be reevaluated every moment"

I liked the part where the prosecutor said this case is not about the difficult "split-second decisions police must make. There are 569 seconds, not a split-second among them." Really ties in well to the reevaluation of force part, there was plenty of time to deescalate the force being used but Chauvin very intentionally did not.

[-SARS-]

Also watching the trial, the prosecutor's fucking brilliant: "What's acceptable one minute might be unacceptable the next, force has to be reevaluated every moment"

I liked the part where the prosecutor said this case is not about the difficult "split-second decisions police must make. There are 569 seconds, not a split-second among them." Really ties in well to the reevaluation of force part, there was plenty of time to deescalate the force being used but Chauvin very intentionally did not.

That is exactly what makes this case different from the other police shit that gets in the news.

[Palmyrion]

I'm gonna put all my money on Derek Chauvin's acquittal out of pessimism for the human race.

[Nazeroth]

I'm gonna put all my money on Derek Chauvin's acquittal out of pessimism for the human race.

Well, the city paid the family before the man even had a trial, kind of muddys impartiality.

[Silvedania]

I'm gonna put all my money on Derek Chauvin's acquittal out of pessimism for the human race.

Well, the city paid the family before the man even had a trial, kind of muddys impartiality.

lol are you referring to taxes
EDIT: I got it switched around. lol are you referring to the stimulus check
basically, sauce needed.