American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)

[Comerciante]

Referenda mean nothing, only force by any means necessary

I can agree with the need for force for change but when you go into the by "any means necessary" territory you approach a slippery slope that tends to end with everything worse off than before.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

How would PR work in the US House? Not badly overall, though it would utterly fail for the least populous states.

Well, in my view, if you have two chambers (Senate and House), only one should be state-based, and the other nation-wide. I know it's a shocking revolution for the very federal US, but I would keep the Senate being state-based (but NOT with same number of Senators for 40 millions people California than for the 600 thousands people Wyoming)

Not an option. Article 5, the amendment article, specifies that depriving any state of its equal suffrage in the Senate is not a valid amendment. Arguing that all states have zero suffrage now, and thus any change to the Senate is allowed by the usual amendment process ... is a bit risky.

The Australian Senate is modelled on the US one, except we simplified 3 classes to 2 (I wouldn't say it's better, just that our electoral cycle is 3 years instead of 2/4 so Senators would serve for up to 9 years). It has a lesser version of the dis-proportionality of the US, as the State of Tasmania has one fifteenth the population of New South Wales, but the same number of Senators. Add multiple members to the equation though (6 per state) and it matters a lot less.

and move the House to a nation-wide proportional representation, with a low threshold (say 3%) for entry. There might be some safeguards to prevent a state-only party, like requiring the top 20 candidates of the list to be from at least 10 states, or requiring the 3% threshold in at least 10 states, but overall Congress decides the US-wide rules and laws, so it should be mainly a US-wide election, not a per-state one.

I don't agree with requiring candidates to be from different states, because a small party just getting started likely only has members in one state. They would however want more than one candidate in their group, to allow for luck.

I also don't see the harm in a party having strong support from only one state. If they're secessionists who are only going to DC to blow off steam, then they should be welcome. We've found with all sorts of insurrectionists that "inviting them into government" gives their representatives a chance to have their grievances heard and forgotten and in the meantime their supporters grow a little older and start to care more about their own kids, than dying in a glorious people's fiasco.

It goes for all political stripes really. If there are enough Nazis, or paedophiles, or doomsday cultists to get members elected, then there are and denying them representation will only harden their resolve to get power some other way.

[Kilobugya]

Not an option. Article 5, the amendment article, specifies that depriving any state of its equal suffrage in the Senate is not a valid amendment. Arguing that all states have zero suffrage now, and thus any change to the Senate is allowed by the usual amendment process ... is a bit risky.

Well, the whole US constitution is obsolete. You don't keep a Constitution for other 200 years, that makes no sense, even with a few amendments here and there. The world and the people just changed too much. It's way due time for the US to elect a Constitutional Convention or however you call it, and draft a new Constitution for the 21st century, not the 18th one.

I don't agree with requiring candidates to be from different states, because a small party just getting started likely only has members in one state. They would however want more than one candidate in their group, to allow for luck.

I don't really like it either, but I was offering that as a compromise for the federalists. It's something I can live with.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Not an option. Article 5, the amendment article, specifies that depriving any state of its equal suffrage in the Senate is not a valid amendment. Arguing that all states have zero suffrage now, and thus any change to the Senate is allowed by the usual amendment process ... is a bit risky.

Well, the whole US constitution is obsolete. You don't keep a Constitution for other 200 years, that makes no sense, even with a few amendments here and there. The world and the people just changed too much. It's way due time for the US to elect a Constitutional Convention or however you call it, and draft a new Constitution for the 21st century, not the 18th one.

Maybe because I'm Australian, I rather like the US Constitution. Having a bill of rights is a good idea, providing it's not behind such a high barrier of amendment.

I went through a Wikipedia list of democracies, not long ago, and I couldn't find a single country with a more difficult process of amendment than the USA. Since it's also quite old, I suppose it is possible that other countries learned from their mistake.

I don't agree with requiring candidates to be from different states, because a small party just getting started likely only has members in one state. They would however want more than one candidate in their group, to allow for luck.

I don't really like it either, but I was offering that as a compromise for the federalists. It's something I can live with.

Ever since I realized the US Senate couldn't be reformed to be more proportional, it's seemed more practical to end State confusion of the House and Presidency. The most egregious aspect of which is how State legislatures can draw district boundaries for the Federal House. The Electoral College is pretty bad too, but at least it's not so obviously open to abuse.

[Kilobugya]

Maybe because I'm Australian, I rather like the US Constitution. Having a bill of rights is a good idea, providing it's not behind such a high barrier of amendment.

Well, I'm French, we have had 5 Republics, 2 Empires, 3 Monarchies, 1 Commune and one nazi-occupation fascist state since the US drafted their Constitution, so... there is some good in their stability, but taken too far stability becomes paralysis and obsolescence.

More seriously I'm strongly in favor of a somewhat hard-to-change bill of rights, we do have one in our Constitution, and the US definitely should have one in their new Constitution. But the whole organization of power they have is just broken.

The most egregious aspect of which is how State legislatures can draw district boundaries for the Federal House. The Electoral College is pretty bad too, but at least it's not so obviously open to abuse.

Totally agree with you on that.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

So todays the day (again) according to the 4 d chess players on Q where in Trump somehow becomes president again.


Has anything happened today? Not that I expect anything happening today.

[Rusozak]

So todays the day (again) according to the 4 d chess players on Q where in Trump somehow becomes president again.


Has anything happened today? Not that I expect anything happening today.

The House cancelled a session today as a precaution after threats, but so far they seem unfounded.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Unthinkable that they are leting an idiot terrorst walk free.

Just this kinda shit makes my blood boil.

So todays the day (again) according to the 4 d chess players on Q where in Trump somehow becomes president again.


Has anything happened today? Not that I expect anything happening today.

The House cancelled a session today as a precaution after threats, but so far they seem unfounded.

I really don't know if you could call them "threats". Q seems to think that a magic fairy will comealong and just declare Trump president again somehow sometime today.

[Kilobugya]

I really don't know if you could call them "threats". Q seems to think that a magic fairy will comealong and just declare Trump president again somehow sometime today.

Q itself is pure non-sense and magical thinking, perhaps, but some of Q followers are pretty angry, armed and reckless. While it's not very likely, we can't completely rule out another attempt to violently storm the Capitol.

[San Lumen]

How is it better?

How does it not work?

So you do acknowledge it and that the industry needs to disappear?

Because it actual gives smaller parties actual representation in government and a voice to those who don't vote for the big two parties.

RCV doesn’t? Plus PR you can easily end with a situation like Israel. There has never been a majority government in the countries history. Extremist parties often hold the balance of power.

[San Lumen]

Well, the whole US constitution is obsolete. You don't keep a Constitution for other 200 years, that makes no sense, even with a few amendments here and there. The world and the people just changed too much. It's way due time for the US to elect a Constitutional Convention or however you call it, and draft a new Constitution for the 21st century, not the 18th one.

Maybe because I'm Australian, I rather like the US Constitution. Having a bill of rights is a good idea, providing it's not behind such a high barrier of amendment.

I went through a Wikipedia list of democracies, not long ago, and I couldn't find a single country with a more difficult process of amendment than the USA. Since it's also quite old, I suppose it is possible that other countries learned from their mistake.

I don't really like it either, but I was offering that as a compromise for the federalists. It's something I can live with.

Ever since I realized the US Senate couldn't be reformed to be more proportional, it's seemed more practical to end State confusion of the House and Presidency. The most egregious aspect of which is how State legislatures can draw district boundaries for the Federal House. The Electoral College is pretty bad too, but at least it's not so obviously open to abuse.

Amending the constitution should be difficult. It’s not something those in charge should be able to do on a whim.

Gerrymandering should absolutely be outlawed. It’s unfair and undemocratic that a party can get the most seats without getting the most votes. It happens frequently in state legislatures.

[Ifreann]

Sai supporting sending black people to their deaths. Real cash money of you Sai.

They're not going to die if Haitians who can't stay in the US have to go back to their island. Asides which, the Dominican Republic has done so much better with their half of Hispaniola. If the DR can become rich, Haiti can too with the right strategy. Just that, Haiti is wrecked in terms of natural resources and human capitol; so it'd take something unorthodox to really build it up. I don't quite have the answer. But its not in what Haiti is doing now.

Haiti's economy is in the shitter because when they won their independence they were forced to pay reparations to France for lost "property", i.e. slaves. It's not a failure of economic strategy that has left them poor, it's rich nations making them poor to punish them.

---

in a small 'the fuck' story, Activision Blizzard has hired former President Bush counterterrorism advisor Frances Townsend as Executive Vice-President for Corporate Affairs

Guessing that Townsend was some manner of corporate crony in the first instance to have been appointed by Bush.

[San Lumen]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics ... index.html

Trump election fraud investigation in Georgia enters new phase with grand jury set to be seated

[Chan Island]

A lawyer for an accused Oath Keeper Capitol rioter says the group’s ‘quick reaction force’ of weapon suppliers was actually just one guy

In February, federal prosecutors arrested several members of the Oath Keepers – an anti-government militia group – on charges related to participating in the riot at the Capitol on January 6.

Prosecutors alleged that the Oath Keeper members had planned part of their attack. They wore tactical gear, held training sessions in the weeks before, and looked at then-President Donald Trump’s direction for their assault on Congress, prosecutors laid out in court documents.

One part of the Oath Keepers’ plan, prosecutors said, citing text messages, was having a “QRF,” or “quick reaction force,” nearby that could supply firearms to militia members “if something goes to hell.”

But that “quick reaction force” was actually just one guy who “is in his late 60s, obese, and has cardiopulmonary issues, a bad back, a bum knee, and is [in] need of a hip replacement,” according to a new court filing.

the storm, apparently, needed to do more cardio

Why is that just the most apt summation of the Trump era ever written? That everyone was planning something evil, boasted that they were going to be this whirlwind of destruction but instead the force was one person self-evidently ill-suited to the task and the plan fell apart at the first hurdle.

Like I kept saying, they were too stupid to even be evil.

Maybe because I'm Australian, I rather like the US Constitution. Having a bill of rights is a good idea, providing it's not behind such a high barrier of amendment.

I went through a Wikipedia list of democracies, not long ago, and I couldn't find a single country with a more difficult process of amendment than the USA. Since it's also quite old, I suppose it is possible that other countries learned from their mistake.



Ever since I realized the US Senate couldn't be reformed to be more proportional, it's seemed more practical to end State confusion of the House and Presidency. The most egregious aspect of which is how State legislatures can draw district boundaries for the Federal House. The Electoral College is pretty bad too, but at least it's not so obviously open to abuse.

Amending the constitution should be difficult. It’s not something those in charge should be able to do on a whim.

Gerrymandering should absolutely be outlawed. It’s unfair and undemocratic that a party can get the most seats without getting the most votes. It happens frequently in state legislatures.

You're always going to be at a risk of gerrymandering whenever you use a majoritarian system. Better to amend the constitution or change the voting laws to be a proportional and be done with all of the myriad issues.

[Kilobugya]

Haiti's economy is in the shitter because when they won their independence they were forced to pay reparations to France for lost "property", i.e. slaves. It's not a failure of economic strategy that has left them poor, it's rich nations making them poor to punish them.

Napoleon re-introducing slavery after the Convention abolished it in 1793, and then fighting the armies of Toussaint Louverture, and then Charles X imposing them a very high amount of "reparations" is truly a shameful part of French history

[San Lumen]

A lawyer for an accused Oath Keeper Capitol rioter says the group’s ‘quick reaction force’ of weapon suppliers was actually just one guy

In February, federal prosecutors arrested several members of the Oath Keepers – an anti-government militia group – on charges related to participating in the riot at the Capitol on January 6.

Prosecutors alleged that the Oath Keeper members had planned part of their attack. They wore tactical gear, held training sessions in the weeks before, and looked at then-President Donald Trump’s direction for their assault on Congress, prosecutors laid out in court documents.

One part of the Oath Keepers’ plan, prosecutors said, citing text messages, was having a “QRF,” or “quick reaction force,” nearby that could supply firearms to militia members “if something goes to hell.”

But that “quick reaction force” was actually just one guy who “is in his late 60s, obese, and has cardiopulmonary issues, a bad back, a bum knee, and is [in] need of a hip replacement,” according to a new court filing.

the storm, apparently, needed to do more cardio

Why is that just the most apt summation of the Trump era ever written? That everyone was planning something evil, boasted that they were going to be this whirlwind of destruction but instead the force was one person self-evidently ill-suited to the task and the plan fell apart at the first hurdle.

Like I kept saying, they were too stupid to even be evil.

Amending the constitution should be difficult. It’s not something those in charge should be able to do on a whim.

Gerrymandering should absolutely be outlawed. It’s unfair and undemocratic that a party can get the most seats without getting the most votes. It happens frequently in state legislatures.

You're always going to be at a risk of gerrymandering whenever you use a majoritarian system. Better to amend the constitution or change the voting laws to be a proportional and be done with all of the myriad issues.

Redistricting should be done by an independent commission. The legislature should have no part in it.

[Chan Island]

Why is that just the most apt summation of the Trump era ever written? That everyone was planning something evil, boasted that they were going to be this whirlwind of destruction but instead the force was one person self-evidently ill-suited to the task and the plan fell apart at the first hurdle.

Like I kept saying, they were too stupid to even be evil.



You're always going to be at a risk of gerrymandering whenever you use a majoritarian system. Better to amend the constitution or change the voting laws to be a proportional and be done with all of the myriad issues.

Redistricting should be done by an independent commission. The legislature should have no part in it.

Which can also be at risk of corruption. Better to eliminate the undemocratic and anti-national pride practice of redistricting altogether by using a PR system.

[Kilobugya]

Redistricting should be done by an independent commission. The legislature should have no part in it.

If you really need districts (ie, rule out proportional representation), then definitely yes. But how is that "independent commission" composed, and how to be sure it's really "independent" is not an easy topic.

[Cannot think of a name]

Wait, that was a real thing? I thought you guys were kidding about that, I didn't know they had a literal golden idol. That's...wow.

Why did you think we were kidding?

Brief frittering hope for humanity?

[Cannot think of a name]

Wait, that was a real thing? I thought you guys were kidding about that, I didn't know they had a literal golden idol. That's...wow.

The funny thing? It’s a craptastic ugly piece you would expect to find in a Trump hotel.

It looked like a shitty version of Bob's Big Boy.

[San Lumen]

Redistricting should be done by an independent commission. The legislature should have no part in it.

Which can also be at risk of corruption. Better to eliminate the undemocratic and anti-national pride practice of redistricting altogether by using a PR system.

How?

Israel and Slovakia is an example of why I don’t like it. It’s nearly impossible to get a majority and extremist parties hold the balance of power. I prefer RCV or MMP.

[San Lumen]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN2AW1O2

Biden says he will sign election reform bill.

[Esalia]

Which can also be at risk of corruption. Better to eliminate the undemocratic and anti-national pride practice of redistricting altogether by using a PR system.

How?

Israel and Slovakia is an example of why I don’t like it. It’s nearly impossible to get a majority and extremist parties hold the balance of power. I prefer RCV or MMP.

And Israel and Slovakia are two countries out of the how many that use proportional representation?

Systems have bad examples, that's true for pretty much every single system. Unless PR systems are uniquely biased towards being bad, that isn't much of a strike against PR.

[Shrillland]

Which can also be at risk of corruption. Better to eliminate the undemocratic and anti-national pride practice of redistricting altogether by using a PR system.

How?

Israel and Slovakia is an example of why I don’t like it. It’s nearly impossible to get a majority and extremist parties hold the balance of power. I prefer RCV or MMP.

That's the point is not to get a majority. It's meant to encourage consensus. Israel's problems are all being caused by one man whilst Slovakia's just experiencing the right-wing backlash that the rest of the V4 have. Think more like the Netherlands or the Scandinavian countries for an ideal of what PR should be.

As for why RCV doesn't go far enough, A Series of Tubes basically answered the question. Mostly, it helps certain individuals of third parties win, but only if they were popular enough beforehand. Australia's had RCV for over a century now, and the House is still locked in a two-and-a-half-party system. Here in the US, it's mostly got traction and is being used in states where third-party candidates already have a shot at winning individual races. In a lot of other places, people will still feel their vote is wasted and vote for one of the big parties for first preference because many of their fellows know nothing and refuse to learn anything about them. PR or MMP changes that by giving them a chance to get representation even if they only get 5-7% of the vote, so they can focus on just getting them instead of trying to win it all.

[Kowani]

McConnell has compiled a short list of successors in his home state of Kentucky, preparing for the possibility that he does not serve out his full term

The list is topped by his protégé, state Attorney General Daniel Cameron, and also includes former United Nations Ambassador Kelly Craft, whose billionaire coal magnate husband is a major McConnell donor, as well as Kentucky Secretary of State Michael Adams, a former McConnell Scholar.

Under current law, the power to appoint McConnell’s replacement falls to Democratic Gov. Andy Beshear. But new legislation McConnell is pushing in the Kentucky General Assembly would strip the governor of that power and put it into the hands of the state GOP.