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American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:58 am

San Lumen wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:No they wouldn’t have. They’d only have 49 because you are forgetting that the republicans lost two seats in georgia not one.


how would they not? They gained Arizona and Colorado. Sanders and King caucus with Democrats. Maine would have been 50

Um no it would be 49/49. Georgia would still be the deciding factor
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:58 am

San Lumen wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
Her entire campaign was based on national politics in a state like Maine, where voters still strongly emphasize localism and regionalism. Her whole message was off, instead of "I want to get X, Y, and Z passed for Maine" it was "We need to get rid of Susan Collins because she is a Republican." Not a great strategy.


I agree thats not a good strategy.

Ifreann wrote:So America has switched from Emperor Mitch McConnell to Emperor Joe Manchin.

Seems like you need to change your country to an actual democracy instead of an effective dictatorship.


what would you change?

Everything? Probably everything. But on a smaller scale, maybe the Democrats should develop the requisite internal organs to tell Manchin that if he doesn't support the agenda that got them into power then when he's up for election he'll be expelled from the party.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:00 am

Umeria wrote:
San Lumen wrote:a primary he will likely win anyway therefore what is the point?

He won't win if Biden backs his opponent.

San Lumen wrote:You think threatening to primary him four years from now is going to change his mind when he barely won the general in 2018?

Yes! Winning a general by a small margin means he's capable of being primaried!

San Lumen wrote:If your ideal candidate wins in West Virginia they will lose. Why do you want to throw away a seat?

Because the threat of throwing away a seat gets him to vote for the $15 minimum wage.

Major-Tom wrote:It's a double-edged sword, if he gets primaried out, we lose that seat or he switches parties and loses us the majority. If we try to keep it as is, he'll keep hindering many portions of the agenda. Oh well.

Did Republicans say "oh well" when they lost the House in 2018? No, they got their agenda passed anyway because they know how to wield power.

A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:At this stage I'm thinking Umeria isn't a Democrat ... really much at all.

I mean I voted for Biden. I support the issues the Democrats claim to support; raising the minimum wage, stopping climate change and whatnot. I guess I break with most Democrats in that I actually want to fight for those issues.


why would Biden do that? He doesnt want to lose the seat.

No winning a general by a slim means the seat is competitive.

How does it get him to vote for it? The election is also four years away. a lot can change between now and then

I supported Biden too and want to fight for those issues but compromise is essential to getting anything done.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:04 am

San Lumen wrote:
Umeria wrote:He won't win if Biden backs his opponent.


Yes! Winning a general by a small margin means he's capable of being primaried!


Because the threat of throwing away a seat gets him to vote for the $15 minimum wage.


Did Republicans say "oh well" when they lost the House in 2018? No, they got their agenda passed anyway because they know how to wield power.


I mean I voted for Biden. I support the issues the Democrats claim to support; raising the minimum wage, stopping climate change and whatnot. I guess I break with most Democrats in that I actually want to fight for those issues.


why would Biden do that? He doesnt want to lose the seat.

No winning a general by a slim means the seat is competitive.

How does it get him to vote for it? The election is also four years away. a lot can change between now and then

I supported Biden too and want to fight for those issues but compromise is essential to getting anything done.

Dude democrats could lose the seat and still be fine come 2024. They are more than likely to gain a majority in 2022 so really they can just tell Manchin to support the raise or they’ll just dump his ass come 2023 when they get their 54-46 seat majority
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>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:05 am

Thermodolia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
why would Biden do that? He doesnt want to lose the seat.

No winning a general by a slim means the seat is competitive.

How does it get him to vote for it? The election is also four years away. a lot can change between now and then

I supported Biden too and want to fight for those issues but compromise is essential to getting anything done.

Dude democrats could lose the seat and still be fine come 2024. They are more than likely to gain a majority in 2022 so really they can just tell Manchin to support the raise or they’ll just dump his ass come 2023 when they get their 54-46 seat majority


I hope your prediction is correct. History isn't on Democrats side. The seat isn't up until 2024.
Last edited by San Lumen on Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:10 am

The problem is the dems don't actually care that Manchin blocks their legislation. If they actually wanted to pass their agenda they wouldn't have intentionally thrown so many senate races

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:10 am

Odreria wrote:The problem is the dems don't actually care that Manchin blocks their legislation. If they actually wanted to pass their agenda they wouldn't have intentionally thrown so many senate races


How did they throw races?

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Dresderstan
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Postby Dresderstan » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:14 am

Odreria wrote:The problem is the dems don't actually care that Manchin blocks their legislation. If they actually wanted to pass their agenda they wouldn't have intentionally thrown so many senate races

As if anyone in Congress actually cares about the people.
22 year old, PA male. Love sports like baseball, hockey and American football, enjoy video games and TV. Music chart nerd, can't live without it. I'm gay. Anti-government revolutionary, one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter

Revolution for America
Imagine being shocked about the fact of greed, corruption, and abuse of power in government.
The media is a propaganda tool fueling the two parties hyperpartisanship and killing the country, it's time to end the "freedom of the press"
Violence against the government is and should be accepted by the people, especially when said government wants to and tries to strip away your constitutional rights.
Doesn't matter Democrat or Republican, both parties need to be abolished and their politicians arrested.

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A-Series-Of-Tubes
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Postby A-Series-Of-Tubes » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:14 am

Major-Tom wrote:
Ifreann wrote:So Manchin now runs America. Nothing can happen that he does not sign off on.


By sheer unfortunate circumstance, sure, you could make that argument.

It's a double-edged sword, if he gets primaried out, we lose that seat or he switches parties and loses us the majority. If we try to keep it as is, he'll keep hindering many portions of the agenda. Oh well.


The one-seat majority is pretty rare. It gives literally every Democrat Senator the same power, but as the most right-wing Democrat Manchin thinks it's his duty to keep a lid on the lefties.

Currently Manchin can break a Democrat bill just by abstaining. That's 49-50 and doesn't activate the VP's tiebreaker. However if one Republican were to die, then at least for a while Manchin would have to vote against his party to stop a bill.

Senators don't die that often. Since 2000 there's been about 1 every 3 years. Half that rate for just Republicans.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:14 am

I get that people want more money in general, no matter their income. But raising minimum wage to $15/hour won't do the lowest paid workers any good if in the long run, it just causes higher wages to go up as well- hence causing more inflation until the value of a dollar is the same as before.

Maybe it is time to raise minimum wage to $15/hr or maybe its not, but the fact remains that businesses by definition won't want to pay more payroll and taxes than they have to. And some small businesses/start ups can't afford to employ people at $15/hr and certain parts of the country don't have a cost of living anywhere near that high. This is just an issue that'll come up again like the slave state vs free state issue before the US Civil War.

Besides, minimum wage is economically stupid. The real way to get the right wages for everyone is to have the entire labor force unionized. But failing that, minimum wage should be tied to inflation or productivity. There is instead this backwards arrangement where minimum wage stays the same indefinitely, until inflation makes it so that various states raise their wages on their own, far before the federal government bothers to arbitrarily raise the minimum wage by a gigantic amount because the US Congress waited too damn long to do so.
Last edited by Saiwania on Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:15 am

A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
By sheer unfortunate circumstance, sure, you could make that argument.

It's a double-edged sword, if he gets primaried out, we lose that seat or he switches parties and loses us the majority. If we try to keep it as is, he'll keep hindering many portions of the agenda. Oh well.


The one-seat majority is pretty rare. It gives literally every Democrat Senator the same power, but as the most right-wing Democrat Manchin thinks it's his duty to keep a lid on the lefties.

Currently Manchin can break a Democrat bill just by abstaining. That's 49-50 and doesn't activate the VP's tiebreaker. However if one Republican were to die, then at least for a while Manchin would have to vote against his party to stop a bill.

Senators don't die that often. Since 2000 there's been about 1 every 3 years. Half that rate for just Republicans.


it also depends on who died or resigned. In some states if would be an automatic flip due to the laws governing gubernatorial appointment in the state.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:15 am

San Lumen wrote:
Odreria wrote:The problem is the dems don't actually care that Manchin blocks their legislation. If they actually wanted to pass their agenda they wouldn't have intentionally thrown so many senate races


How did they throw races?

By intervening in the primaries to back candidates like Sara Gideon and Cal Cunningham.

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:16 am

San Lumen wrote:
Odreria wrote:The problem is the dems don't actually care that Manchin blocks their legislation. If they actually wanted to pass their agenda they wouldn't have intentionally thrown so many senate races


How did they throw races?

Well in NC they went with the White moderate male over the black progressive female, which is usually odd cause they love IdPol but because she was progressive that just wouldn’t do.

The guy the DNC and State Dems supported would go on to lose one of the easiest elections to win
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY! US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Dresderstan
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Postby Dresderstan » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:16 am

Thermodolia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
How did they throw races?

Well in NC they went with the White moderate male over the black progressive female, which is usually odd cause they love IdPol but because she was progressive that just wouldn’t do.

The guy the DNC and State Dems supported would go on to lose one of the easiest elections to win

Doesn't help the guy was having an affair.
22 year old, PA male. Love sports like baseball, hockey and American football, enjoy video games and TV. Music chart nerd, can't live without it. I'm gay. Anti-government revolutionary, one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter

Revolution for America
Imagine being shocked about the fact of greed, corruption, and abuse of power in government.
The media is a propaganda tool fueling the two parties hyperpartisanship and killing the country, it's time to end the "freedom of the press"
Violence against the government is and should be accepted by the people, especially when said government wants to and tries to strip away your constitutional rights.
Doesn't matter Democrat or Republican, both parties need to be abolished and their politicians arrested.

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:18 am

Dresderstan wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Well in NC they went with the White moderate male over the black progressive female, which is usually odd cause they love IdPol but because she was progressive that just wouldn’t do.

The guy the DNC and State Dems supported would go on to lose one of the easiest elections to win

Doesn't help the guy was having an affair.

Well ya that’s the whole point he couldn’t keep it in his pants
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY! US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA: Senior Eve Šanœ, Junior Jon Æthr

RIP Dya

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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:19 am

Dresderstan wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Well in NC they went with the White moderate male over the black progressive female, which is usually odd cause they love IdPol but because she was progressive that just wouldn’t do.

The guy the DNC and State Dems supported would go on to lose one of the easiest elections to win

Doesn't help the guy was having an affair.


It should have been kept quiet. In Europe people don't care about those things. The First Lady of France had an affair with a model in New York several years ago and divorced the President shortly after he was elected and few cared.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:20 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Doesn't help the guy was having an affair.


It should have been kept quiet.

idk man he could have waited until after the election to have sex with women other than his wife, but no let's blame it all on the media

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Dresderstan
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Postby Dresderstan » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:20 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Doesn't help the guy was having an affair.


It should have been kept quiet. In Europe people don't care about those things. The First Lady of France had an affair with a model in New York several years ago and divorced the President shortly after he was elected and few cared.

Well we're not France, so boo hoo.
22 year old, PA male. Love sports like baseball, hockey and American football, enjoy video games and TV. Music chart nerd, can't live without it. I'm gay. Anti-government revolutionary, one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter

Revolution for America
Imagine being shocked about the fact of greed, corruption, and abuse of power in government.
The media is a propaganda tool fueling the two parties hyperpartisanship and killing the country, it's time to end the "freedom of the press"
Violence against the government is and should be accepted by the people, especially when said government wants to and tries to strip away your constitutional rights.
Doesn't matter Democrat or Republican, both parties need to be abolished and their politicians arrested.

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San Lumen
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Posts: 58348
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:20 am

Odreria wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
It should have been kept quiet.

idk man he could have waited until after the election to have sex with women other than his wife, but no let's blame it all on the media


His opponent could have just kept it quiet and no one would have found out.

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Odreria
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Founded: Jun 15, 2020
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Postby Odreria » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:21 am

San Lumen wrote:
Odreria wrote:idk man he could have waited until after the election to have sex with women other than his wife, but no let's blame it all on the media


His opponent could have just kept it quiet and no one would have found out.

lmfao

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San Lumen
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Posts: 58348
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:23 am

Dresderstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
It should have been kept quiet. In Europe people don't care about those things. The First Lady of France had an affair with a model in New York several years ago and divorced the President shortly after he was elected and few cared.

Well we're not France, so boo hoo.


We should be in that area.
Last edited by San Lumen on Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dresderstan
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Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:24 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Well we're not France, so boo hoo.


We should be in that area.

Well guess what we're not, so get over it.
22 year old, PA male. Love sports like baseball, hockey and American football, enjoy video games and TV. Music chart nerd, can't live without it. I'm gay. Anti-government revolutionary, one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter

Revolution for America
Imagine being shocked about the fact of greed, corruption, and abuse of power in government.
The media is a propaganda tool fueling the two parties hyperpartisanship and killing the country, it's time to end the "freedom of the press"
Violence against the government is and should be accepted by the people, especially when said government wants to and tries to strip away your constitutional rights.
Doesn't matter Democrat or Republican, both parties need to be abolished and their politicians arrested.

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65075
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:24 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Doesn't help the guy was having an affair.


It should have been kept quiet. In Europe people don't care about those things. The First Lady of France had an affair with a model in New York several years ago and divorced the President shortly after he was elected and few cared.

Because literally everyone in France has a mistress. Also France doesn’t care about sex all that much considering they where literally the first nation to legalize homosexual activities.

But the rest of Europe very much does care about infidelity. Like all of Eastern Europe, Germany, and especially the UK. The UK cares about it so much that they forced one of their monarchs to abdicate because he married an American double divorcee
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY! US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA: Senior Eve Šanœ, Junior Jon Æthr

RIP Dya

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A-Series-Of-Tubes
Minister
 
Posts: 2708
Founded: Dec 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby A-Series-Of-Tubes » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:25 am

Punished UMN wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
I still think it should have been kept quiet. it was no ones business. The First Lady of France a number of years ago had an affair with a model in New York and few in the country gave a darn.

"True information should be suppressed because it might hurt us politically"

hmmm


SL didn't say that. Actually rather the opposite: "keeping it quiet" requires that both political sides not raise it. That's passing up a chance at political advantage because "moral failings" of a sexual nature really shouldn't be a factor.

It really shouldn't be a requirement for office that a person be married. Strictly speaking its not, but it clearly biases the voters and on election night there they are, total stranger who has nothing to do with politics, hugging and kissing the winner. In a perfect world, someone better looking who is probably an escort, could be there instead.
True Centrist: Someone who changes the subject whenever it sounds like politics.
Please don't report each other to find out if a rule was broken ... If you're not sure, do not report.

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Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65075
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:25 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Well we're not France, so boo hoo.


We should be in that area.

But we aren’t so he should have kept in his pants
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY! US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA: Senior Eve Šanœ, Junior Jon Æthr

RIP Dya

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