French government denounces American Woke Left

[Cultural Posadism]

The OP didn't say anything about blackface.

So you didn't read OP's primary source (i.e. the NYT article).

[Cultural Posadism]

This is bizarre. Woke means awareness of injustice and racism. People are blowing it up into something which it is not. It is like the word neoliberalism. It is a word that is being misused out of context. It is bizarre fear mongering on the right and hyperbole on the left. You can apply things like meditation to the word woke, but I seriously doubt the way this word is being touted is correct. There is no specific action in the word, nor is action implied. It is a word focused on observation. It is going from a state of being a sheep to becoming aware.

It sure looks like a certain group of people are abusing the term "woke" the same way they abused "cultural marxism" and "sjw".

[Borderlands of Rojava]

This is bizarre. Woke means awareness of injustice and racism. People are blowing it up into something which it is not. It is like the word neoliberalism. It is a word that is being misused out of context. It is bizarre fear mongering on the right and hyperbole on the left. You can apply things like meditation to the word woke, but I seriously doubt the way this word is being touted is correct. There is no specific action in the word, nor is action implied. It is a word focused on observation. It is going from a state of being a sheep to becoming aware.

Alot of so called woke people aren't actually that woke. Like supporting kamala Harris cause "omg we have a woman of color as the vice president" or buying more merchandise from Nike cause they have Colin Kapernick as a mascot is something you would do if you were more asleep than a comatose person in a hospital.

[Albrenia]

Considering how many people voted for a second round of Trump, I think at least half of Americans are literally ultranationalists, even if people in Portland are not.

They aren’t ultranationalist, if, say, Putin or Merkel denounces Joe Biden, Republicans and Trump supporters will most like agree with them because Biden belongs to another political party. On the contrary, when Erdogan denounced Macron, everyone in France, including Macron’s biggest opponents like Marine Le Pen rushed to his defense as the president of France. This is the kind of nationalism we need

The mindless loyalty to power doesn't seem like something to be admired tbh. Nationalism is particularly cancerous though, so the whole 'you can't tell MY PRESIDENT not to torture confessions out of people!' thing seems within their playbook.

[Cultural Posadism]

Again: very simplistic idea of what authoritarianism is if you think that antifa action is in any way akin to fascism.

Sometimes simple ideas are all that's needed when the problem is simple. Not that I'm saying that it was an over-simplistic idea, mind.

So your first sentence is entirely pointless?

Most of what antifascists do is perfectly within the law and violates nobody's "basic civil liberties".

Antifa*

If 'antifascists' was accurate then that'll solve a lot of what's wrong with them.

So you'd be ok with the stuff antifa does if they only targeted obvious fascists?

Also, "most of"??

Yeah, most of.

Pressuring a private institution to not give a platform to fascists is no more authoritarian than boycotting Electronic Arts because you hated the lootboxes in Battlefront 2. Heckling a fascist speaker is no more authoritarian than heckling a stand up comedian when their jokes bomb. Infiltrating and exposing fascist organizations is no more authoritarian than being a whistleblower for authoritarian regimes. And violently confronting fascists on the streets isn't inherently fascist for the same reason that owning a gun doesn't automatically make you a conservative. Fascists didn't invent political violence, and historically speaking political violence hasn't been inherently incompatible with liberalism (see: almost every single liberal revolution since the 18th century).

Again, they're not just targeting fascists

The word "they" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your arguments so far... but sure, I can concede that maybe not just obvious fascists get the short end of the antifa stick. After all, many right-wingers have for decades consistently mistaken their liberal opponents for "communists" and "socialists", so it makes sense that some people involved in antifa would make a similar mistake.

so much of what you've just said is hypothetical rather than actually applying to Antifa in any way.

As opposed to what you've said, which is 100% comprised of evidence-based claims.

Violently confronting one's political opponents on the streets is illegal

Illegal is not always synonymous with wrong.

and also another indication that they have no interest in free speech.

At least not in liberal terms, no.

I also never claimed that fascists invented political violence.

The way you structure your argument makes it sounds like you believe as much. Otherwise, your claims of antifa being "hypocritical" hold very little water.

Their lack of knowledge about true fascism

You've failed to actually prove the existence of such a generalized lack of knowledge beyond claiming it.

Antifa and similarly alligned groups would decide that they prefer Primark, then- regardless of any employment of child slave labor which may or may not happen- would then try to harrass GAP staff, anyone who wears GAP, starting a campaign of harrassment, defamation and sometimes violence with the intent to force the victims through intimidation by a mob rather than education through protest. And why? Not because of child labour, but because they have their interests in Primark.

"they have their interests in Primark"??? Within the context of this analogy, what exactly are you trying to say here?

There has been a consistant pattern of complaints from Liberal Democrat members during the 2019 election that harrassment and intimidation (some criminal, some less so) have consistantly came from Momentum. And if you think that's off-topic, let me remind you that the very subject of this thread is the legal combating of far-left groups which are heavily influenced by American politics...like Momentum. Let me also remind you that the Lib Dems are centre-left. They're not just going after right-wing people.

But harrassment and intimidation are not unique to the left, though, which highlights the problem with the cause for this thread: treating such things when coming from the left as if they were some homogenous, uniquely left-wing phenomenon supported by a left-wing consensus.

[SD_Film Artists]

The OP didn't say anything about blackface.

So you didn't read OP's primary source (i.e. the NYT article).

As I've said earlier-

None of the three source links mention blackface in their opening paragraphs....because there's other things to talk about on this important subject. As the same links mention, this has been an ongoing thing in French politics during recent months, rather than it suddenly being about blackface and only blackface.

Also, if you have to read through to the deeper paragraphs of some source links to find out the subject of the thread then Ostroeuropa has failed as an OP- but he hasn't failed as the thread is not just about blackface and thus his post has not failed to give sufficiant information.

Sometimes simple ideas are all that's needed when the problem is simple. Not that I'm saying that it was an over-simplistic idea, mind.

So your first sentence is entirely pointless?

'over-simplistic' is different from something being merely 'simplistic'; though your original sentense was pretty vague so there wasn't a lot of point I can fit into someing replying to that. I'm still not sure what you really meant other than the vague implication that I was being "simplistic".

Antifa*

If 'antifascists' was accurate then that'll solve a lot of what's wrong with them.

So you'd be ok with the stuff antifa does if they only targeted obvious fascists?

There is a freedom of speech argument to still be had if that was the case, but it would certainly make them better than them currently going after innocent people.

Also, "most of"??

Yeah, most of.

So you accept that Antifa can be described as a violent law-breaking mob?

The word "they" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your arguments so far... but sure, I can concede that maybe not just obvious fascists get the short end of the antifa stick. After all, many right-wingers have for decades consistently mistaken their liberal opponents for "communists" and "socialists", so it makes sense that some people involved in antifa would make a similar mistake.

They are plural, so I'll use a plural. Also if you're going to go after fascists then it's a good idea to know what fascism is. If they're not knowingly going after any political opponenents even left-wing ones but instead just honestly mistaking them for fascists, then that demonstrates a monumental lack of research.

so much of what you've just said is hypothetical rather than actually applying to Antifa in any way.

As opposed to what you've said, which is 100% comprised of evidence-based claims.

I meant that you were practically just describing some theoretical anti-facist group rather than antifa which is distinctly different. Though if you did want a clear source then how about Mark Bray (author of 'Antifa the anti-fascist handbook') saying:

"The term “vandalism” is a great example of how mainstream coverage of the revolutionary left embeds normative values into their allegedly neutral journalistic coverage. “Vandalism” implies that property destruction is apolitical, thoughtless, and “criminal.” That sentence would have read differently if it used the phrase “targeted property destruction.” Moreover there have been endless debates over whether property destruction even ought to be considered violence. Certainly breaking windows should not be casually equated with neo-Nazi murder.

So sure, property destruction is part of the anti-fascist and more broadly revolutionary repertoire. But we should always keep an eye on how journalists belie their professed neutrality in their use of terms like “violent” and “vandalism.” "
https://www.mhpbooks.com/no-platform-fo ... mark-bray/

Which is a fancy sugar-coated way of saying 'yes we illegaly break people's shit because they're our political opponents'.

Violently confronting one's political opponents on the streets is illegal

Illegal is not always synonymous with wrong.

I'm sure you're not inciting illegal actions on NSG, which would be quite wrong.

and also another indication that they have no interest in free speech.

At least not in liberal terms, no.

Then in what terms?

I also never claimed that fascists invented political violence.

The way you structure your argument makes it sounds like you believe as much.

Well let me be more clear that it's not the case, you just imagined it. Actaully you're the only one who's been talking about facists or anti-fascists inventing anything. It's almost as if you're distracting from the issues by trying to make it about absolutes.

Their lack of knowledge about true fascism

You've failed to actually prove the existence of such a generalized lack of knowledge beyond claiming it.

Antifa protested against the democratic election of Boris Johnson, who is centre-right (perhaps even centre-left by American standards).
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/vi ... cted-video

Antifa and similarly alligned groups would decide that they prefer Primark, then- regardless of any employment of child slave labor which may or may not happen- would then try to harrass GAP staff, anyone who wears GAP, starting a campaign of harrassment, defamation and sometimes violence with the intent to force the victims through intimidation by a mob rather than education through protest. And why? Not because of child labour, but because they have their interests in Primark.

"they have their interests in Primark"??? Within the context of this analogy, what exactly are you trying to say here?

That they have their interests in the far-left, so they go against people who aren't far-left. Not that simply 'going against' your political opponents is bad per se but it is disingenuous to suggest that they're all fascists.

There has been a consistant pattern of complaints from Liberal Democrat members during the 2019 election that harrassment and intimidation (some criminal, some less so) have consistantly came from Momentum. And if you think that's off-topic, let me remind you that the very subject of this thread is the legal combating of far-left groups which are heavily influenced by American politics...like Momentum. Let me also remind you that the Lib Dems are centre-left. They're not just going after right-wing people.

But harrassment and intimidation are not unique to the left, though, which highlights the problem with the cause for this thread: treating such things when coming from the left as if they were some homogenous, uniquely left-wing phenomenon supported by a left-wing consensus.

They said 'consistantly' from Momentum, ie the majority of complaints being about the far-left and this is coming from a party which is broadly left-wing itself. No one is claiming that harrassment and intimidation are unique to the left.

[The Alma Mater]

The word "they" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your arguments so far... but sure, I can concede that maybe not just obvious fascists get the short end of the antifa stick. After all, many right-wingers have for decades consistently mistaken their liberal opponents for "communists" and "socialists", so it makes sense that some people involved in antifa would make a similar mistake.

They are plural, so I'll use a plural. Also if you're going to go after fascists then it's a good idea to know what fascism is. If they're not knowingly going after any political opponenents even left-wing ones but instead just honestly mistaking them for fascists, then that demonstrates a monumental lack of research.

/quote]

True, but their point is that that is fair in the country where a majority thinks "liberal" is "communism".

[Vassenor]

The OP didn't say anything about blackface.

So you didn't read OP's primary source (i.e. the NYT article).

But why would you do that when the OP is already saying things that agree with your biases?

[SD_Film Artists]

They are plural, so I'll use a plural. Also if you're going to go after fascists then it's a good idea to know what fascism is. If they're not knowingly going after any political opponenents even left-wing ones but instead just honestly mistaking them for fascists, then that demonstrates a monumental lack of research.

/quote]

True, but their point is that that is fair in the country where a majority thinks "liberal" is "communism".

But that mindset is being exported to other countries, thus the thread topic. Even if we stick to America, the existance of right-wing people mistaking the centre-left for Stalinists doesn't make Antifa any less fallacious.

[SD_Film Artists]

So you didn't read OP's primary source (i.e. the NYT article).

But why would you do that when the OP is already saying things that agree with your biases?

I'm having to repeat this so much I'm starting to wonder if I may as well just put it in my sig:

None of the three source links mention blackface in their opening paragraphs....because there's other things to talk about on this important subject. As the same links mention, this has been an ongoing thing in French politics during recent months rather than it suddenly being about blackface and only blackface.

Also, if you have to read through to the deeper paragraphs of some source links to find out the subject of the thread then Ostroeuropa has failed as an OP- but he hasn't failed as the thread is not just about blackface and thus his post has not failed to give sufficiant information.

[Democratic Exodian Territories]

This is bizarre. Woke means awareness of injustice and racism. People are blowing it up into something which it is not. It is like the word neoliberalism. It is a word that is being misused out of context. It is bizarre fear mongering on the right and hyperbole on the left. You can apply things like meditation to the word woke, but I seriously doubt the way this word is being touted is correct. There is no specific action in the word, nor is action implied. It is a word focused on observation. It is going from a state of being a sheep to becoming aware.

It sure looks like a certain group of people are abusing the term "woke" the same way they abused "cultural marxism" and "sjw".

Don't see much wrong with it.

[Vassenor]

It sure looks like a certain group of people are abusing the term "woke" the same way they abused "cultural marxism" and "sjw".

Don't see much wrong with it.

Yes but you also think of blackfacing as something vitally important to the national interest and thus must be defended at all costs.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Now, I'm not French, so I don't claim to have a native's insight on their social and societal issues and the academics' take on them, but I can attest to a similar - and similarly nonsensical - trend in Germany.
Debates on the nature and dynamics of racism have started to use a vocabulary that has more often than not been airlifted directly from the American discourse - including the dichotomy of the exclusively and all-encompassing Whites on the one hand and the always-discriminated against BIPOC* on the other, with little adjustment into the German societal context. Something you increasingly notice these days is that activist-journalists have started to add a polit-speak glossary to their articles to give their poor readers a chance to understand what they are even talking about - not exactly a sign that it's an organically developed debate that is taking place here. It's probably also not a coincidence that less and less people are reading and are feeling represented by mainstream media.

*the irony of using the US term "indigenous" when referring to a, at best, tiny number of immigrants of Native American background as opposed to, you know, the actual indigenous population of the place, is usually lost on the author.

I find this trend both annoying and disturbing for a variety of reasons, namely:

1.) The often repeated claim that the concept of a "colorblind society" is a false narrative that only serves to mask social prejudices is one thing; however, no evidence of any kind is offered that the woke Left's counter-approach of errecting more and more tribal markers in language, behavior and who you are to socialize with/listen to etc will lead to a better and juster society instead of deepening the differences between these alleged tribal groups. The US sure as hell aren't an example.

2.) The introduction of US-style ad hominem puritanism into debate culture. I don't disagree with you by analyzing the fallacies of your argument but by marking you as someone who has been born into - alleged - privilege and are therefore inherently immoral and only worthy of being shunned.

3.) The audacity with which some people of one ethnic minority appropriate the vocabulary and self-image of another ethnic minority with a completely different history. Some Turkish German journalists - who have roots in a nation with a long and often uncritically embraced history of empire, colonialism, authoritarianism, racism and genocide - try to claim the label of "POC" to forge a - completely artificial - common "we" with African Americans and other historically wronged ethnic groups, thus very intellectually conveniently switching places from the role of historical opressor to historical victim.

4.) The ongoing (self-)destruction of traditional Social Democracy which decided that their own voter base, yesterday's exploited working-class, have become today's over-privileged white cishet males or whatever, then stares in puzzled disbelief everytime it hits new lows in voter support.

5.) Most despicably of all, the silent erasure of remembering and understanding Germany's own historically developed brand of racism. In all the articles I've read written from the perspective of this new, US-style "anti"-racism, the Holocaust usually just gets namedropped with no further elaboration on how things got that far and what to do to prevent similar developments again, while the genocides in Poland, Ukraine and Russia might just as well not have happened at all - after all these are peoples that are filed under the "white" label, which makes them privileged, no further analysis needed.

If the situation in France is any similar to the above, I can sympathize.

I put this in the Awesome NS Quotes thread; hope that's OK with you.

And thank you for mentioning the genocides in Eastern Europe; those are often overlooked, with Poles being lopped into the "privileged" category as though the Poles haven't been historically invaded or discriminated against.

I don't know much about the Turks, so I won't comment on that.

I am sick of white people always being portrayed as the bad guys. It's discriminatory and...r a c i s t , to use the proper definition of the word.

I second that. Baltenstein's excellent riposte to the American woke imperialists is second to none. Chris Hitchens would be proud.

Proof that American wokism is a form of cultural imperialism? Several woke posters on this site aren't even American, yet they espouse views typical of American wokists and seek to impose those views on everyone else at all costs, up to and including attempts to smear a moderate centrist like Emmanuel Macron as some kind of fascist because the f-word is their favorite word. American wokism should be viewed through the same lens as radical Islam or Chinese-style communism, a close relative of American woke leftism by ancestry, at times aligned, and at times opposed to one another.

Even more supremely ironic is how Jews are routinely lumped into the "privileged" category despite enduring one of the most horrific genocides in modern history. The Woke Left is systemically, undeniably antisemitic. Just recently on this very site, we have had instances of woke leftist posters (not naming names) making antisemitic remarks in a thread that has nothing to do with Jews and is simply an excuse to initiate a threadjack and vent their naked bigotry.

Another supreme irony is how someone with the kind of background that Ayaan Hirsi Ali possesses has recently come under sustained assault from wokists claiming to represent, among other institutions, the New York Times, because she had the temerity to publish a new book about Islam and mass Muslim immigration. To paraphrase a certain presidential candidate, she "ain't black". Individuals such as her scare these left-wing woke imperialists far more than Trump ever could because she's neither white nor Christian nor conservative.

Douglas Murray lays into the American Woke Left's attempts to character-assassinate Hirsi Ali and exposes these privileged, out-of-touch talking heads in their ivory towers of upper- to upper-middle-class comfort for the intellectual fraudsters that they really are, specifically Jill Filipovic of the New York Times.

Link

American woke imperialism is an existential threat to atheists, Jews, Christians, LGBTQ people, and women in Europe who need someone to stand with them in opposition to the creeping Islamization of the continent.

American wokists may back certain groups such as gay men one moment and viciously turn on them the next. A gay, white man who was a member of a knitting circle was ostracized, subjected to all kinds of gaslighting and abuse and literally driven insane by his colleagues over a harmless poem. The sustained gaslighting and abuse I experienced last year at the hands of certain woke leftist posters on this site alone pales in comparison to what this man was subjected to.

This happened in the UK a few years back and was widely covered by Quillette. Gay men are now considered expendable now that same-sex marriage has been legalized across the Anglosphere. Nowadays, gay men, especially gay white men, are "privileged, fascist scum".

Another instance of American woke imperialism that I can personally relate to is a recent attempt by certain quarters to appropriate terms such as "China virus" as something that's "racist" and "trolling" and seeking to impose that narrow American definition of the term onto foreigners, particularly Asians and anti-CCP political dissidents in HK and elsewhere in Asia who can and have used that and similar terms to lambast the CCP for whatever reason and for whom Donald Trump, his rhetoric, and his domestic policies have had nothing to do with them.

Wokists on this very site have attempted to get the term "China virus" banned altogether without due regard to the differences in meaning in different parts of the world because "some white dude attacked me in the street earlier today because I look different". Now I know how Western conservatives feel about what they consider to be the compelled use of certain pronouns even if I disagree with them on trans issues. I'm not American and I have never set foot in the United States or anywhere in the Americas. What does Donald Trump's use of a term like "China virus" have to do with me?

The fact that online circles such as NS are dominated by American users, many of them woke leftists and imperialist-enablers, and the fact that Facebook, Twitter, Google, and other online services are based in America and owned by Americans means that we must keep our guard up at all times and resist this constant assault on our sanity and our very humanity before it consumes us all in a conflagration of manufactured grievance, hatred, and division.

At least the people of France have finally had enough of this culturally degrading, imperialist BS and have decided to take a stand. I urge Brits, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, other Mainland Europeans, and Western expats living in HK, S'pore, and other cosmopolitan cities to do likewise. America and Europe alike must be utterly cleansed of wokeness before it destroys us all. We must learn to detect its signs and nip it in the bud at the very first opportunity.

Americans are extremely nationalistic.

Hahahaha no

If a foreign government denounces the American president, our people and politicians will agree with the foreigners if the president happens to be from another political party. Furthermore, there is a growing number of people from the "woke left" who think America is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity, and most of these people happen to be… Americans

Gratitude and appreciation are sorely lacking among these wokists. They get to grow up in one of the greatest democracies in the world far removed from the twin threats of radical Islam and Chinese-tier totalitarianism. Then they have the nerve to lecture to everyone else about just how "oppressed" they or their black, Muslim, or female comrades are and impose their narrow, fanciful ideas on the whole world. This is an insidious form of cultural imperialism.

They have no idea just how easy they have it and they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Instead of demonizing people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, they should be standing shoulder to shoulder with her. They are anything but liberal and anything but tolerant.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Daily reminder that most people in the Anglo world have no idea about the hierarchy in the hell of collectivism which really has a lot of levels.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

I put this in the Awesome NS Quotes thread; hope that's OK with you.

And thank you for mentioning the genocides in Eastern Europe; those are often overlooked, with Poles being lopped into the "privileged" category as though the Poles haven't been historically invaded or discriminated against.

I don't know much about the Turks, so I won't comment on that.

I am sick of white people always being portrayed as the bad guys. It's discriminatory and...r a c i s t , to use the proper definition of the word.

I second that. Baltenstein's excellent riposte to the American woke imperialists is second to none. Chris Hitchens would be proud.

Proof that American wokism is a form of cultural imperialism? Several woke posters on this site aren't even American, yet they espouse views typical of American wokists and seek to impose those views on everyone else at all costs, up to and including attempts to smear a moderate centrist like Emmanuel Macron as some kind of fascist because the f-word is their favorite word. American wokism should be viewed through the same lens as radical Islam or Chinese-style communism, a close relative of American woke leftism by ancestry, at times aligned, and at times opposed to one another.

Even more supremely ironic is how Jews are routinely lumped into the "privileged" category despite enduring one of the most horrific genocides in modern history. The Woke Left is systemically, undeniably antisemitic. Just recently on this very site, we have had instances of woke leftist posters (not naming names) making antisemitic remarks in a thread that has nothing to do with Jews and is simply an excuse to initiate a threadjack and vent their naked bigotry.

Another supreme irony is how someone with the kind of background that Ayaan Hirsi Ali possesses has recently come under sustained assault from wokists claiming to represent, among other institutions, the New York Times, because she had the temerity to publish a new book about Islam and mass Muslim immigration. To paraphrase a certain presidential candidate, she "ain't black". Individuals such as her scare these left-wing woke imperialists far more than Trump ever could because she's neither white nor Christian nor conservative.

Douglas Murray lays into the American Woke Left's attempts to character-assassinate Hirsi Ali and exposes these privileged, out-of-touch talking heads in their ivory towers of upper- to upper-middle-class comfort for the intellectual fraudsters that they really are, specifically Jill Filipovic of the New York Times.

Link

American woke imperialism is an existential threat to atheists, Jews, Christians, LGBTQ people, and women in Europe who need someone to stand with them in opposition to the creeping Islamization of the continent.

American wokists may back certain groups such as gay men one moment and viciously turn on them the next. A gay, white man who was a member of a knitting circle was ostracized, subjected to all kinds of gaslighting and abuse and literally driven insane by his colleagues over a harmless poem. The sustained gaslighting and abuse I experienced last year at the hands of certain woke leftist posters on this site alone pales in comparison to what this man was subjected to.

This happened in the UK a few years back and was widely covered by Quillette. Gay men are now considered expendable now that same-sex marriage has been legalized across the Anglosphere. Nowadays, gay men, especially gay white men, are "privileged, fascist scum".

Another instance of American woke imperialism that I can personally relate to is a recent attempt by certain quarters to appropriate terms such as "China virus" as something that's "racist" and "trolling" and seeking to impose that narrow American definition of the term onto foreigners, particularly Asians and anti-CCP political dissidents in HK and elsewhere in Asia who can and have used that and similar terms to lambast the CCP for whatever reason and for whom Donald Trump, his rhetoric, and his domestic policies have had nothing to do with them.

Wokists on this very site have attempted to get the term "China virus" banned altogether without due regard to the differences in meaning in different parts of the world because "some white dude attacked me in the street earlier today because I look different". Now I know how Western conservatives feel about what they consider to be the compelled use of certain pronouns even if I disagree with them on trans issues. I'm not American and I have never set foot in the United States or anywhere in the Americas. What does Donald Trump's use of a term like "China virus" have to do with me?

The fact that online circles such as NS are dominated by American users, many of them woke leftists and imperialist-enablers, and the fact that Facebook, Twitter, Google, and other online services are based in America and owned by Americans means that we must keep our guard up at all times and resist this constant assault on our sanity and our very humanity before it consumes us all in a conflagration of manufactured grievance, hatred, and division.

At least the people of France have finally had enough of this culturally degrading, imperialist BS and have decided to take a stand. I urge Brits, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, other Mainland Europeans, and Western expats living in HK, S'pore, and other cosmopolitan cities to do likewise. America and Europe alike must be utterly cleansed of wokeness before it destroys us all. We must learn to detect its signs and nip it in the bud at the very first opportunity.

Hahahaha no

If a foreign government denounces the American president, our people and politicians will agree with the foreigners if the president happens to be from another political party. Furthermore, there is a growing number of people from the "woke left" who think America is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity, and most of these people happen to be… Americans

Gratitude and appreciation are sorely lacking among these wokists. They get to grow up in one of the greatest democracies in the world far removed from the twin threats of radical Islam and Chinese-tier totalitarianism. Then they have the nerve to lecture to everyone else about just how "oppressed" they or their black, Muslim, or female comrades are and impose their narrow, fanciful ideas on the whole world. This is an insidious form of cultural imperialism.

They have no idea just how easy they have it and they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Instead of demonizing people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, they should be standing shoulder to shoulder with her. They are anything but liberal and anything but tolerant.

Well, you should think about why wokism exists. Who actually benefit from it. The real purpose of wokism is dealing with people analogous to Chinese nationalists and Confucian traditionalists in the West. We are grossed out by them and wokists are white people who are grossed out by an analogous group of people. There is a psychological and socioeconomic dimension of the phenomenon.

[Vassenor]

I put this in the Awesome NS Quotes thread; hope that's OK with you.

And thank you for mentioning the genocides in Eastern Europe; those are often overlooked, with Poles being lopped into the "privileged" category as though the Poles haven't been historically invaded or discriminated against.

I don't know much about the Turks, so I won't comment on that.

I am sick of white people always being portrayed as the bad guys. It's discriminatory and...r a c i s t , to use the proper definition of the word.

I second that. Baltenstein's excellent riposte to the American woke imperialists is second to none. Chris Hitchens would be proud.

Proof that American wokism is a form of cultural imperialism? Several woke posters on this site aren't even American, yet they espouse views typical of American wokists and seek to impose those views on everyone else at all costs, up to and including attempts to smear a moderate centrist like Emmanuel Macron as some kind of fascist because the f-word is their favorite word. American wokism should be viewed through the same lens as radical Islam or Chinese-style communism, a close relative of American woke leftism by ancestry, at times aligned, and at times opposed to one another.

Even more supremely ironic is how Jews are routinely lumped into the "privileged" category despite enduring one of the most horrific genocides in modern history. The Woke Left is systemically, undeniably antisemitic. Just recently on this very site, we have had instances of woke leftist posters (not naming names) making antisemitic remarks in a thread that has nothing to do with Jews and is simply an excuse to initiate a threadjack and vent their naked bigotry.

Another supreme irony is how someone with the kind of background that Ayaan Hirsi Ali possesses has recently come under sustained assault from wokists claiming to represent, among other institutions, the New York Times, because she had the temerity to publish a new book about Islam and mass Muslim immigration. To paraphrase a certain presidential candidate, she "ain't black". Individuals such as her scare these left-wing woke imperialists far more than Trump ever could because she's neither white nor Christian nor conservative.

Douglas Murray lays into the American Woke Left's attempts to character-assassinate Hirsi Ali and exposes these privileged, out-of-touch talking heads in their ivory towers of upper- to upper-middle-class comfort for the intellectual fraudsters that they really are, specifically Jill Filipovic of the New York Times.

Link

American woke imperialism is an existential threat to atheists, Jews, Christians, LGBTQ people, and women in Europe who need someone to stand with them in opposition to the creeping Islamization of the continent.

American wokists may back certain groups such as gay men one moment and viciously turn on them the next. A gay, white man who was a member of a knitting circle was ostracized, subjected to all kinds of gaslighting and abuse and literally driven insane by his colleagues over a harmless poem. The sustained gaslighting and abuse I experienced last year at the hands of certain woke leftist posters on this site alone pales in comparison to what this man was subjected to.

This happened in the UK a few years back and was widely covered by Quillette. Gay men are now considered expendable now that same-sex marriage has been legalized across the Anglosphere. Nowadays, gay men, especially gay white men, are "privileged, fascist scum".

Another instance of American woke imperialism that I can personally relate to is a recent attempt by certain quarters to appropriate terms such as "China virus" as something that's "racist" and "trolling" and seeking to impose that narrow American definition of the term onto foreigners, particularly Asians and anti-CCP political dissidents in HK and elsewhere in Asia who can and have used that and similar terms to lambast the CCP for whatever reason and for whom Donald Trump, his rhetoric, and his domestic policies have had nothing to do with them.

Wokists on this very site have attempted to get the term "China virus" banned altogether without due regard to the differences in meaning in different parts of the world because "some white dude attacked me in the street earlier today because I look different". Now I know how Western conservatives feel about what they consider to be the compelled use of certain pronouns even if I disagree with them on trans issues. I'm not American and I have never set foot in the United States or anywhere in the Americas. What does Donald Trump's use of a term like "China virus" have to do with me?

The fact that online circles such as NS are dominated by American users, many of them woke leftists and imperialist-enablers, and the fact that Facebook, Twitter, Google, and other online services are based in America and owned by Americans means that we must keep our guard up at all times and resist this constant assault on our sanity and our very humanity before it consumes us all in a conflagration of manufactured grievance, hatred, and division.

At least the people of France have finally had enough of this culturally degrading, imperialist BS and have decided to take a stand. I urge Brits, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, other Mainland Europeans, and Western expats living in HK, S'pore, and other cosmopolitan cities to do likewise. America and Europe alike must be utterly cleansed of wokeness before it destroys us all. We must learn to detect its signs and nip it in the bud at the very first opportunity.

Hahahaha no

If a foreign government denounces the American president, our people and politicians will agree with the foreigners if the president happens to be from another political party. Furthermore, there is a growing number of people from the "woke left" who think America is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity, and most of these people happen to be… Americans

Gratitude and appreciation are sorely lacking among these wokists. They get to grow up in one of the greatest democracies in the world far removed from the twin threats of radical Islam and Chinese-tier totalitarianism. Then they have the nerve to lecture to everyone else about just how "oppressed" they or their black, Muslim, or female comrades are and impose their narrow, fanciful ideas on the whole world. This is an insidious form of cultural imperialism.

They have no idea just how easy they have it and they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Instead of demonizing people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, they should be standing shoulder to shoulder with her. They are anything but liberal and anything but tolerant.

So we've gone from "uppity black people" to "muslims bad" in a manner that would please the Chinese government greatly.

[Democratic Exodian Territories]

Don't see much wrong with it.

Yes but you also think of blackfacing as something vitally important to the national interest and thus must be defended at all costs.

nice strawman mate

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

This is bizarre. Woke means awareness of injustice and racism. People are blowing it up into something which it is not. It is like the word neoliberalism. It is a word that is being misused out of context. It is bizarre fear mongering on the right and hyperbole on the left. You can apply things like meditation to the word woke, but I seriously doubt the way this word is being touted is correct. There is no specific action in the word, nor is action implied. It is a word focused on observation. It is going from a state of being a sheep to becoming aware.

Lol that’s never the real intention.

The purpose of wokism is making a society safe for social liberals who are less into murder, rape and other authoritarian and violent activities than the rest of the society. Since people are generally brutal the only way to make a society safe for social liberals is allying with social conservatives from a different and often hostile or semi-hostile ethnic group and triggering a low-intensity conflict between them and the social conservatives from their own ethnic group.

Nature is brutal. This is why stuff such as patriarchy exists even in societies where women provide most of the economic output. Status in societies, human or animal, is often earned by being good at harming others as opposed to being good at helping others. This is the real crux of the problem. Wokism is just one of the many attempts to transform bullying into a war between bullies from different ethnic groups which makes the lives of women and nerds better.

[Vassenor]

Yes but you also think of blackfacing as something vitally important to the national interest and thus must be defended at all costs.

nice strawman mate

Getting upset over someone calling blackface a bad thing is a good social policy now?

yes

It's not a strawman if you're literally doing it.

[Stellar Colonies]

...

So we've gone from "uppity black people" to "muslims bad" in a manner that would please the Chinese government greatly.

When were we at "uppity black people"?

[Vassenor]

When were we at "uppity black people"?

Whenever GHK goes off on one about the evils of Black Lives Matter.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

When were we at "uppity black people"?

Whenever GHK goes off on one about the evils of Black Lives Matter.

Edited: Ah nope. Sorry.

Please don’t say it is about BLM when the actual stance there is more like the old Brazilian idea of racial whitening which is ironically unacceptable to segregationists and at the same time way to the social right of normal American political discourse. It does require an assimilationist culture such as France and China to produce such a stance and in such a culture the stance is socially far-rightist.

[Stellar Colonies]

When were we at "uppity black people"?

Whenever GHK goes off on one about the evils of Black Lives Matter.

hm

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Whenever GHK goes off on one about the evils of Black Lives Matter.

hm

Requiring black people to assimilate or GTFO is Sinostatism. It’s really no different from what China does to Uyghurs.

[Democratic Exodian Territories]

nice strawman mate

yes

It's not a strawman if you're literally doing it.

why do you persist at this game
france can do whatever they want in regards to this and I don't care where they go from here, it's just that they seem to be taking a step in the right direction by calling out the "college left" and their multitude of negative effects on the modern social and cultural sphere

I don't promote blackface but whatever you want to believe friend

EDIT: and before you say "but you support people getting upset over calling out blackface" yes I do I think it's funny and makes me feel good inside