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Do we even need police?

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Albrenia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:20 pm

On the topic of if we need police, I think we do, at least in the sort of societies we currently inhabit.

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Des-Bal
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:52 am

Cordel One wrote:Again, massive intervention by the ominant ideology. Every major society seemed indestructible at its peak and imposed its will on others.

And every loser thought they had a chance, the scoreboard requires no justification.
Albrenia wrote:On the topic of if we need police, I think we do, at least in the sort of societies we currently inhabit.

If you have laws you need police because police enforce laws. There's mob justice but then there's really only one law which is be on the right side of the biggest mob.
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National Capitalist United States
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Corporate Police State

Postby National Capitalist United States » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:28 am

Sanghyeok wrote:
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:Join National Syndicalism, it’s the economic equality and prosperity of theoretical communism without the bad economic policies and hate-boner for nationhood and cultural values


I prefer keeping my Jewish friends alive, so I'll decline.

Hey, you just so you know:

Fascism ≠ Nazism
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Page
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:35 am

National Capitalist United States wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:
I prefer keeping my Jewish friends alive, so I'll decline.

Hey, you just so you know:

Fascism ≠ Nazism


Any ideology that begins with the word national = sus as fuck for anyone who isn't part of the dominant ethnic group/religion/culture
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Cordel One
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Cordel One » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:10 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Cordel One wrote:Again, massive intervention by the ominant ideology. Every major society seemed indestructible at its peak and imposed its will on others.

And every loser thought they had a chance, the scoreboard requires no justification.


The dominant power says this every time.
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Des-Bal
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:34 am

Cordel One wrote:The dominant power says this every time.

Lots of people do. Because when something is working that is evidence it can work and when something has never worked that is evidence it can't.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
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Kubra
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:13 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Cordel One wrote:Again, massive intervention by the ominant ideology. Every major society seemed indestructible at its peak and imposed its will on others.

And every loser thought they had a chance, the scoreboard requires no justification.
Albrenia wrote:On the topic of if we need police, I think we do, at least in the sort of societies we currently inhabit.

If you have laws you need police because police enforce laws. There's mob justice but then there's really only one law which is be on the right side of the biggest mob.
on the former topic, if that were so 1848 and its ramifications ought not have happened. To say nothing of the rest of Europe, a Bourbon cadet on the French throne spoke for itself, no? But that's an extreme oversimplification of a complex series of events, no?

On the latter topic, what we call "police" is quite a new thing, a mere few centuries, if which it took time to replace far more cruel instruments of law enforcement, and of course sometimes becoming more cruel than them in turn. Not to say we should be comparing the NKVD to the London Met, but some perspective is perhaps needed.
Last edited by Kubra on Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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National Capitalist United States
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Corporate Police State

Postby National Capitalist United States » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:44 pm

Page wrote:
National Capitalist United States wrote:Hey, you just so you know:

Fascism ≠ Nazism


Any ideology that begins with the word national = sus as fuck for anyone who isn't part of the dominant ethnic group/religion/culture

I mean, there's a huge difference between cultural nationalism and white supremacy
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Cordel One
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Postby Cordel One » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:25 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Cordel One wrote:The dominant power says this every time.

Lots of people do. Because when something is working that is evidence it can work and when something has never worked that is evidence it can't.

Which is exactly why the Roman Empire will never fa-

oh, wait. It collapsed after its golden age like all empires do. Do you really think this is the pinnacle of advancement, that we can't go any further? Someday we'll all be ancient history.
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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:17 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Cordel One wrote:The dominant power says this every time.

Lots of people do. Because when something is working that is evidence it can work and when something has never worked that is evidence it can't.


Should we return to feudalism or slave society then?
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Cordel One
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Postby Cordel One » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:10 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:Lots of people do. Because when something is working that is evidence it can work and when something has never worked that is evidence it can't.


Should we return to feudalism or slave society then?

"The people of France tried to get more of a say and they ended up with Napoleon, clearly the idea of democracy doesn't work"

A few hundred years ago this wouuld be about as accurate to society at the time as Des-Bal's is to this one.
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Des-Bal
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:55 am

Cordel One wrote:Which is exactly why the Roman Empire will never fa-

oh, wait. It collapsed after its golden age like all empires do. Do you really think this is the pinnacle of advancement, that we can't go any further? Someday we'll all be ancient history.

You've created a connection between "this functions" and "this is flawless" that I did not.
Cordel One wrote:"The people of France tried to get more of a say and they ended up with Napoleon, clearly the idea of democracy doesn't work"

A few hundred years ago this wouuld be about as accurate to society at the time as Des-Bal's is to this one.


It would be wildly different because communism didn't fail once. It's an idiotic system and you can't go from "something could eventually work better" to "this thing that never works is better." You're not looking to the future you're smearing the same non-working shit everywhere.
Sanghyeok wrote:
Should we return to feudalism or slave society then?


As an alternative to our current functioning systems? No, because they're functioning and unless you can make the case the antiquated systems function better why change? As an alternative to communism? Sure, go ahead. The great thing about unworkable ideas is that the stupidest workable idea you come up with is better.
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Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
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Arvenia
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:17 am

Sanghyeok wrote:Police are often seen as something necessary to protect lives, prevent crime, and preserve order. However, in practice this has rarely been the case in countries around the world. Instead, cases abound where police have failed to complete their duties, and instead not only bring harm to their communities through brutalising and terrorising their residents through beatings and sexual assault, continuously place business interests above the common people's, and preserving property instead of lives among others. Instead, some policy makers propose replacing police with solutions we know to be effective, such as rehabilitation of criminals as opposed to punitive punishment, decriminalising non-violent crimes, and spend more on mental health care, housing and education.

What do you think about police abolition entirely (in all nations) ? I support immediate reforms to reduce police power and provide more funding to welfare initiatives that reduce incentives and necessity for crime, with a long term plan of removing police as an institution.

How do we combat crime without police?
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The Two Jerseys
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:46 am

Arvenia wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:Police are often seen as something necessary to protect lives, prevent crime, and preserve order. However, in practice this has rarely been the case in countries around the world. Instead, cases abound where police have failed to complete their duties, and instead not only bring harm to their communities through brutalising and terrorising their residents through beatings and sexual assault, continuously place business interests above the common people's, and preserving property instead of lives among others. Instead, some policy makers propose replacing police with solutions we know to be effective, such as rehabilitation of criminals as opposed to punitive punishment, decriminalising non-violent crimes, and spend more on mental health care, housing and education.

What do you think about police abolition entirely (in all nations) ? I support immediate reforms to reduce police power and provide more funding to welfare initiatives that reduce incentives and necessity for crime, with a long term plan of removing police as an institution.

How do we combat crime without police?

They're going to have social workers go on patrol with Paul Blart, and if they see a crime being committed they're going to run down to the courthouse and ask the judge to issue an arrest warrant.

I wish I was joking.
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Arvenia
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Postby Arvenia » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:51 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Arvenia wrote:How do we combat crime without police?

They're going to have social workers go on patrol with Paul Blart, and if they see a crime being committed they're going to run down to the courthouse and ask the judge to issue an arrest warrant.

I wish I was joking.

I would prefer vigilantes (as well as private investigators).
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The Two Jerseys
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:10 am

Arvenia wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:They're going to have social workers go on patrol with Paul Blart, and if they see a crime being committed they're going to run down to the courthouse and ask the judge to issue an arrest warrant.

I wish I was joking.

I would prefer vigilantes (as well as private investigators).

I wouldn't, but at least the vigilantes would be more effective at stopping crimes in progress than Paul Blart and his arrest warrant would...
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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:46 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Arvenia wrote:How do we combat crime without police?

They're going to have social workers go on patrol with Paul Blart, and if they see a crime being committed they're going to run down to the courthouse and ask the judge to issue an arrest warrant.

I wish I was joking.

You seem to have ignored the part where we made suggestions on preventive measures like increasing funding to education, positive reinforcement, and welfare, not to mention where we showed evidence that policing doesn't solve or deter crime very much either.
万国の労働者よ、団結せよ!
大プロレタリアート魔法革命万 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も、その眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister

Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favourite things

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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:46 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Arvenia wrote:I would prefer vigilantes (as well as private investigators).

I wouldn't, but at least the vigilantes would be more effective at stopping crimes in progress than Paul Blart and his arrest warrant would...


They'd probably be more effective than modern police too.
万国の労働者よ、団結せよ!
大プロレタリアート魔法革命万 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も、その眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister

Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favourite things

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Sanghyeok
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanghyeok » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:47 pm

Albrenia wrote:On the topic of if we need police, I think we do, at least in the sort of societies we currently inhabit.


I find your comment interesting because you mentioned "current societies". Do you believe we'll be able to remove policing entirely after society reaches a certain stage of development?
万国の労働者よ、団結せよ!
大プロレタリアート魔法革命万 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も、その眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister

Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favourite things

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My Political Fantasy
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby My Political Fantasy » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:55 pm

Have you people ever researched any society with out a police/militia/army of any kind? They sound kind of hellish if you ask me :p
A combination of the neutrality of Switzerland, the military capabilities of Israel, and the authoritarian governance of Russia.
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National Capitalist United States
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Corporate Police State

Postby National Capitalist United States » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:13 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:I wouldn't, but at least the vigilantes would be more effective at stopping crimes in progress than Paul Blart and his arrest warrant would...


They'd probably be more effective than modern police too.

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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:38 pm

My Political Fantasy wrote:Have you people ever researched any society with out a police/militia/army of any kind? They sound kind of hellish if you ask me :p

Hm
Conflation
For example, Costa Rica doesn’t have an army, but they do have light law enforcement forces.
read your own damn sources
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The Two Jerseys
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:06 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:They're going to have social workers go on patrol with Paul Blart, and if they see a crime being committed they're going to run down to the courthouse and ask the judge to issue an arrest warrant.

I wish I was joking.

You seem to have ignored the part where we made suggestions on preventive measures like increasing funding to education, positive reinforcement, and welfare,

None of which is going to prevent crimes of passion or people committing crimes for the excitement of it.
not to mention where we showed evidence that policing doesn't solve or deter crime very much either.

Still better than solving or deterring no crime at all.
Sanghyeok wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:I wouldn't, but at least the vigilantes would be more effective at stopping crimes in progress than Paul Blart and his arrest warrant would...


They'd probably be more effective than modern police too.

I prefer my law enforcement to not involve lynchings.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
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Adamede
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:26 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:I wouldn't, but at least the vigilantes would be more effective at stopping crimes in progress than Paul Blart and his arrest warrant would...


They'd probably be more effective than modern police too.

I guess in the sense that at least one person they end up lynching is actually guilty of something.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:27 pm

Kowani wrote:
My Political Fantasy wrote:Have you people ever researched any society with out a police/militia/army of any kind? They sound kind of hellish if you ask me :p

Hm
Conflation
For example, Costa Rica doesn’t have an army, but they do have light law enforcement forces.

I mean anyone wanting to invade Costa Rica is going to have the US military ride up their buts eventually.

The Western Hemisphere is America’s playground and they’re awfully protective of it, only we can bully Latin America and all.
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Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

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